Violence over vaccinations

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Solt
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Postby Solt » Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:50 am UTC

Bluesprite wrote:
Solt wrote:To say that these people are just plain wrong and we should go over there and whoop their asses until they agree with us is one thing. To say that they don't have the right to do something (that WE find wrong, not them) in their OWN sovereign territory but we don't want to be violent about it is entirely different and I think, illogical.

The man with the gun dictates the rules. That's how history is.


I don't think OP said anything about whooping their asses.


I know, and that's exactly the problem. The only way you can say what is right and what is wrong is if you hold the power. If you don't have power over them, why criticize them over how they choose to live?
"Welding was faster, cheaper and, in theory,
produced a more reliable product. But sailors do
not float on theory, and the welded tankers had a
most annoying habit of splitting in two."
-J.W. Morris

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Belial
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Postby Belial » Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:03 am UTC

Because when you're living in what is ostensibly a democracy, the opinions of the people influence the government, and the government influences other nations diplomatically.

In other words, in a vague, disconnected way, we do have the power.

Also, because apathy about the senseless death of another human being due to ignorance and religious retardation is probably a bad sign.

And because, in a basic human way, your right to "how you choose to live" ends when it hits someone else's life.

And really, if it's not okay to have a moral opinion about what people do somewhere else, why is it okay to have an opinion about what people do here? Or what you do yourself? It all has to matter or none of it matters. And if none of it matters, then what does it matter if you decide it matters anyway?

Or maybe I'm sleep deprived, and this isn't making a lot of sense. That is also an available option.
addams wrote:A drunk neighbor is better than a sober Belial.


They/them

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Patashu
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Postby Patashu » Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:26 am UTC

It's important to have at least a basic sense of moral absolutism. Why? Because if we didn't condemn acts such as needless murder and injury, the human race would not progress as everyone would be too busy fighting and being fought. From a practical perspective, it is good to think that murder is wrong.

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Solt
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Postby Solt » Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:02 am UTC

Belial wrote:Because when you're living in what is ostensibly a democracy, the opinions of the people influence the government, and the government influences other nations diplomatically.


That philosophy has TOTALLY worked for the US and its allies in the past.*








*exceptions: Vietnam, Iran, Iraq, Venezuela, Palestine, the Soviet Union...



The point is, even the fact that we are a democracy does not give us the right to dictate to others what their beliefs should be. There are many examples where we've tried that and people did not like it, to put it mildly.
"Welding was faster, cheaper and, in theory,

produced a more reliable product. But sailors do

not float on theory, and the welded tankers had a

most annoying habit of splitting in two."

-J.W. Morris

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Belial
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Postby Belial » Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:27 am UTC

Of course not. No one *likes* to hear "Sorry guys, the murder, oppression, genocide, genital mutilation, and slavery party is *over*, you're all going to need to go home"
addams wrote:A drunk neighbor is better than a sober Belial.


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Nihilena
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Postby Nihilena » Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:54 am UTC

I apologize for not responding to anyone. Just got my wisdom teeth out and I'm on some wonderful pain medication. I'll be back when I'm a bit more lucid.
eight

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Solt
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Postby Solt » Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:18 am UTC

Nihilena wrote:I apologize for not responding to anyone. Just got my wisdom teeth out and I'm on some wonderful pain medication. I'll be back when I'm a bit more lucid.


Awesome. I just got mine pulled out too. I have an excuse if any of what I've said in this thread is, in fact, stupid.
"Welding was faster, cheaper and, in theory,

produced a more reliable product. But sailors do

not float on theory, and the welded tankers had a

most annoying habit of splitting in two."

-J.W. Morris

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Bluesprite
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Postby Bluesprite » Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:18 pm UTC

Solt wrote:I know, and that's exactly the problem. The only way you can say what is right and what is wrong is if you hold the power. If you don't have power over them, why criticize them over how they choose to live?


I like to believe that debate is healthy.
Where does the light go when the light goes out?

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Solt
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Postby Solt » Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:07 am UTC

Bluesprite wrote:
Solt wrote:I know, and that's exactly the problem. The only way you can say what is right and what is wrong is if you hold the power. If you don't have power over them, why criticize them over how they choose to live?


I like to believe that debate is healthy.



Debate is one thing. Passing judgement is quite another.

This is still a debate, anyway. A meta-debate, about whether the original issue is debatable.
"Welding was faster, cheaper and, in theory,

produced a more reliable product. But sailors do

not float on theory, and the welded tankers had a

most annoying habit of splitting in two."

-J.W. Morris


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