Voting Third Party.

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sam_i_am
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Voting Third Party.

Postby sam_i_am » Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:41 pm UTC

Has anyone ever considered voting third party?

Or

would anyone ever consider voting third party?

I personally plan to vote for Gary Johnson, considering that I trust Neither Obama nor Romney.

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Re: Voting Third Party.

Postby Роберт » Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:44 pm UTC

sam_i_am wrote:Has anyone ever considered voting third party?

Or

would anyone ever consider voting third party?
Nope. Absolutely never. No one has.
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Re: Voting Third Party.

Postby sam_i_am » Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:51 pm UTC

Роберт wrote:
sam_i_am wrote:Has anyone ever considered voting third party?

Or

would anyone ever consider voting third party?
Nope. Absolutely never. No one has.



Why not? Do you not like any of the third parties?

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Re: Voting Third Party.

Postby JBJ » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:05 pm UTC

sam_i_am wrote:
Роберт wrote:
sam_i_am wrote:Has anyone ever considered voting third party?

Or

would anyone ever consider voting third party?
Nope. Absolutely never. No one has.

Why not? Do you not like any of the third parties?

I think there was a bit of sarcasm intended there. Third party candidates have been on all ballots in recent history, and have received votes, therefore, many people at many different times have considered and voted for third parties.

The best showing was Teddy Roosevelt in 1912, who carried 6 states and got 88 electoral votes. Ross Perot did pretty good in 1992, getting 18% of the popular vote, but he failed to carry any states or get any electoral votes. Most other years, they're lucky to break 1% of the popular vote.
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Re: Voting Third Party.

Postby Роберт » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:09 pm UTC

I'm not sure where this discussion is going but yes I've voted third party because it didn't matter anyway and I didn't like either option all that much. I think the U.S. voting system needs an overhaul if we ever want third parties to be viable. They are viable in other countries.
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Re: Voting Third Party.

Postby omgryebread » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:29 pm UTC

Even if they were viable (and I don't think it's just the voting system that prevent them from being so), I wouldn't vote for anyone who wouldn't caucus with the Democrats. And then only because they had a better chance than the Democrat, or because there was no Democrat running.

This could be because, growing up, my understanding of the respect due to organizations placed the Democratic Party a few steps above the Episcopal Church, which was a somewhat distant second. I think I was 8 or so when I learned that most people don't think of Bill Clinton and Jesus in the same category of divinity. EDIT: This must have been earlier. I went to Catholic School when I was 6, so I would have figured it out by then. Also, I want to make it clear I don't place them on the same category anymore, since I place Bill Clinton much higher.

I bleed blue. I went to my first political event when I was 9, (Martin O'Malley for mayor), I volunteer regularly, and my dream job is working for the DCCC.
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Re: Voting Third Party.

Postby sam_i_am » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:41 pm UTC

omgryebread wrote:Even if they were viable (and I don't think it's just the voting system that prevent them from being so), I wouldn't vote for anyone who wouldn't caucus with the Democrats. And then only because they had a better chance than the Democrat, or because there was no Democrat running.

This could be because, growing up, my understanding of the respect due to organizations placed the Democratic Party a few steps above the Episcopal Church, which was a somewhat distant second. I think I was 8 or so when I learned that most people don't think of Bill Clinton and Jesus in the same category of divinity. EDIT: This must have been earlier. I went to Catholic School when I was 6, so I would have figured it out by then. Also, I want to make it clear I don't place them on the same category anymore, since I place Bill Clinton much higher.

I bleed blue. I went to my first political event when I was 9, (Martin O'Malley for mayor), I volunteer regularly, and my dream job is working for the DCCC.


That's quite some party loyalty there.

Let me ask you a question.

Is your party loyalty strong enough to compel you to vote for someone like say... Rod Blagojevich?

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Re: Voting Third Party.

Postby omgryebread » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:54 pm UTC

sam_i_am wrote:
omgryebread wrote:Even if they were viable (and I don't think it's just the voting system that prevent them from being so), I wouldn't vote for anyone who wouldn't caucus with the Democrats. And then only because they had a better chance than the Democrat, or because there was no Democrat running.

This could be because, growing up, my understanding of the respect due to organizations placed the Democratic Party a few steps above the Episcopal Church, which was a somewhat distant second. I think I was 8 or so when I learned that most people don't think of Bill Clinton and Jesus in the same category of divinity. EDIT: This must have been earlier. I went to Catholic School when I was 6, so I would have figured it out by then. Also, I want to make it clear I don't place them on the same category anymore, since I place Bill Clinton much higher.

I bleed blue. I went to my first political event when I was 9, (Martin O'Malley for mayor), I volunteer regularly, and my dream job is working for the DCCC.


That's quite some party loyalty there.

Let me ask you a question.

Is your party loyalty strong enough to compel you to vote for someone like say... Rod Blagojevich?
Yeah, though I don't think it's just party loyalty. I think that the Democrats are most likely to get what I want done, so I'll suffer some Ben Nelsons because they vote for the congressional leadership I like. Every election I've ever voted in, I've straight up liked the Democrat more than anyone else.

I wouldn't vote for Rod Blagojevich were he to run, but I'm guessing that any candidate I couldn't bring myself to vote for wouldn't get nominated.

I can think of an exception. If I were a citizen of Alaska, I would have written in Lisa Murkowski, even though she's a Republican. McAdams, the Democrat wasn't going to win, and I would want to support Murkowski, a relatively reasonable Republican over Joe Miller, and the election was close enough that I wouldn't have wanted to risk a symbolic vote for the Democrat.

I assume if I had done so, I would have felt compelled to do some cleansing ritual or something.
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Re: Voting Third Party.

Postby Derek » Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:13 pm UTC

omgryebread wrote:Even if they were viable (and I don't think it's just the voting system that prevent them from being so), I wouldn't vote for anyone who wouldn't caucus with the Democrats. And then only because they had a better chance than the Democrat, or because there was no Democrat running.

This could be because, growing up, my understanding of the respect due to organizations placed the Democratic Party a few steps above the Episcopal Church, which was a somewhat distant second. I think I was 8 or so when I learned that most people don't think of Bill Clinton and Jesus in the same category of divinity. EDIT: This must have been earlier. I went to Catholic School when I was 6, so I would have figured it out by then. Also, I want to make it clear I don't place them on the same category anymore, since I place Bill Clinton much higher.

I bleed blue. I went to my first political event when I was 9, (Martin O'Malley for mayor), I volunteer regularly, and my dream job is working for the DCCC.

Replace "Democrat" with "Republican", "Blue" with "Red", and "Bill Clinton" with "Ronald Reagan".

Though these days I would vote Libertarian if they were viable.

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Re: Voting Third Party.

Postby The Great Hippo » Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:46 pm UTC

omgryebread wrote:I wouldn't have wanted to risk a symbolic vote for the Democrat.
Just wanted to chime in by saying that a symbolic vote is a lot like going to a protest with a placard that has a picture of a burning monk.

(I don't have a problem with symbolic votes, I just thought that it was funny)

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Re: Voting Third Party.

Postby Steroid » Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:09 am UTC

I have voted Libertarian in the past, am a registered member of the party, and am planning to vote for Johnson this year unless some major change happens with Mitt Romney. I do this for a few reasons:

1. It makes me feel good to stand on principle.

2. It helps the Libertarian party grow.

3. It serves to remind the Republicans that their base is not completely secure, and that nominating a middle-of-the-road candidate like Romney is not always the right move.

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Re: Voting Third Party.

Postby JudeMorrigan » Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:17 am UTC

My sister voted for Harry Browne in 2000. She lives in Florida. This lead her to vowing to never vote for a third party presidential candidate again.

Personally, I live in Alabama. I think I'd have a much easier time justifying a third party presidential vote here than I would if I still lived in Florida. Of course, I say that despite having voted for Kerry in 2004, so I'm not sure what it would take to actually get me to do so.

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Re: Voting Third Party.

Postby yurell » Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:59 am UTC

I vote for a third party, but in Australia. It doesn't matter that they don't get into power; if they receive a significant minority of the votes it may make one of the larger parties lean more that way to try and take those votes away from one of their competitors.
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Re: Voting Third Party.

Postby Роберт » Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:06 pm UTC

yurell wrote:I vote for a third party, but in Australia. It doesn't matter that they don't get into power; if they receive a significant minority of the votes it may make one of the larger parties lean more that way to try and take those votes away from one of their competitors.

Doesn't Australia have IRV?
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Re: Voting Third Party.

Postby Ghostbear » Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:14 pm UTC

JudeMorrigan wrote:My sister voted for Harry Browne in 2000. She lives in Florida. This lead her to vowing to never vote for a third party presidential candidate again.

Similar with my Dad -- we live in New Hampshire and he voted for Nader in 2000. I was too young to vote at the time, but for me that has acted as enough of a lesson to not vote third party unless they already have enough support that winning is viable. Though 2012 will still only be my third time voting anyway, so I haven't had many opportunities.

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Re: Voting Third Party.

Postby sam_i_am » Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:46 pm UTC

My opinion is that you would be absolutely right to not vote third party if you indeed have a clear preference among the 2 major candidates.

But when you don't have a preference, there's really point in voting 1 way or another. You might as well help a third party that you like get ahead.

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Re: Voting Third Party.

Postby Puppyclaws » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:39 pm UTC

I have never voted for a 3rd party presidential candidate before, but this year I intend to vote for either Jill Stein or Bradford Lyttle. I live in a "safe" "blue" state, but even if I didn't, I would still to vote for one of them. My disappointment with Obama is just too great to vote for him again.

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Re: Voting Third Party.

Postby Iceman » Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:56 pm UTC

I tend to think of the 3rd party stuff as less of a 'For now' type vote, more of a thing to make it viable in the future.

Canada was pretty much 2 parties until about 20-30 years ago, but slowly the 3rd gains some influence and a 4th and 5th and 6th came in, and then one day, the Conservative party basically got decimated in an election and those 3rd parties are now threats to win.

It's tougher in the US though because youre President is elected nationally.

The 3rd party candidates would be more likey to have influence in the Senate or House...if you hit a point where 30 House and 9 Senators were Libertarian or whatever, such they they're deciding votes, now you can build on that and then push for a Libertarian President.

The problem with a direct candidate is the candidate basically won't live long enough to make it work.
the Ronpaul could become the nominee if he had like 3 more election cycles...but he doesn't. Then when you put in Gary Johnson, well, he just looks kind of like a crazy guy in comparison.

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Re: Voting Third Party.

Postby omgryebread » Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:22 am UTC

sam_i_am wrote:My opinion is that you would be absolutely right to not vote third party if you indeed have a clear preference among the 2 major candidates.

But when you don't have a preference, there's really point in voting 1 way or another. You might as well help a third party that you like get ahead.
I, as a reasonable person, can understand this. But let me put on my party hack hat for a second and talk about why it bothers me, noting that this is just my gut reaction, and not my actual thinking opinion.


How could anyone not have a preference between the two major candidates? They are so vastly different in everything from basic political philosophy to empathy to advanced economic and geopolitical theory, it seems alien to me that someone wouldn't have an overwhelming preference for one, even if they disliked their preferred candidate intensely.

That being said, yeah I get it once I think about it.
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Re: Voting Third Party.

Postby Sheikh al-Majaneen » Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:56 am UTC

My state, Georgia, is guaranteed red. It doesn't matter that I've only voted third party for presidential candidates; it has gone Bush Bush McCain since I became somewhat politically aware. Will most likely vote Johnson in November, unless they add some sort of "I vote against all options" null-vote requiring all parties to nominate a different candidate if it gets a majority to the ballot. Which will never happen in the US.

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Re: Voting Third Party.

Postby yurell » Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:00 am UTC

Роберт wrote:Doesn't Australia have IRV?


Yes. But I am in a safe Labor seat (Lalor, so Gillard's seat), so my vote effectively doesn't count, but I vote for the minorities to show them my support and opposition to many of Labor's policies.
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Re: Voting Third Party.

Postby sam_i_am » Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:45 am UTC

omgryebread wrote:
sam_i_am wrote:My opinion is that you would be absolutely right to not vote third party if you indeed have a clear preference among the 2 major candidates.

But when you don't have a preference, there's really point in voting 1 way or another. You might as well help a third party that you like get ahead.
I, as a reasonable person, can understand this. But let me put on my party hack hat for a second and talk about why it bothers me, noting that this is just my gut reaction, and not my actual thinking opinion.


How could anyone not have a preference between the two major candidates? They are so vastly different in everything from basic political philosophy to empathy to advanced economic and geopolitical theory, it seems alien to me that someone wouldn't have an overwhelming preference for one, even if they disliked their preferred candidate intensely.

That being said, yeah I get it once I think about it.


Okay then, So what are your major Issues.

Civil liberties issues such as the Guantanamo Bay Prison and the PATRIOT ACT? Assination lists? Because Obama hasn't done much to prevent that.

Is it the Healthcare bill(the one with no public option) that was based off a bill that Romney passed in Massachusetts?

Do you maybe not like tax cuts for the rich? like the kind that Obama extended in 2010?

Are you concerned about Corporate donors. Mind you Obama doesn't get as much corporate money than Romney does, but he certainly got more corporate money than McCain did last election cycle.

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Re: Voting Third Party.

Postby omgryebread » Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:14 am UTC

sam_i_am wrote:Okay then, So what are your major Issues.

Civil liberties issues such as the Guantanamo Bay Prison and the PATRIOT ACT? Assination lists? Because Obama hasn't done much to prevent that.

Is it the Healthcare bill(the one with no public option) that was based off a bill that Romney passed in Massachusetts?

Do you maybe not like tax cuts for the rich? like the kind that Obama extended in 2010?

Are you concerned about Corporate donors. Mind you Obama doesn't get as much corporate money than Romney does, but he certainly got more corporate money than McCain did last election cycle.
One of the candidates thinks I and the love of my life aren't in a legitimate relationship, and supports a constitutional amendment that would class our relationship as inferior. The other supports our relationship and has called for it to be legalized.

One of the candidates would repeal the law that's the only way I'm getting insurance. The other one passed that law. Even though its not great, its still there.

One of the candidates believes that returning us to an era of irresponsible deregulation will help the economy, the other takes realistic views that don't fuck over anyone that isn't rich.

One has publicly stated that he would antagonize the second most powerful country in the world, our greatest rival in geopolitical terms, and also our greatest potential partner in stability, by branding them a currency manipulator.

I'll admit... I don't particularly care about assassinations. It sounds fairly horrible, but it's a complex world where bad decisions will, and need to be made. We all make decisions with nothing but bad options. It just so happens that those decisions for the president usually include body counts.

I don't think Obama is the most skilled president we've had. I'd appreciate someone a bit better at legislative negotiation. That being said, I'd rather have a incompetent guy fighting for the right cause rather than the smartest guy in the world fighting for the wrong cause.



Actually, I see far more difference between Obama and Romney than I see between Johnson and Romney. When Libertarians talk about not letting government control our lives, it's so that corporations can take their place controlling it. See Johnson on internet neutrality, consumer protection and financial regulation. He's just a corporation candidate with a liberal drug policy and isolationist foreign policy.
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Re: Voting Third Party.

Postby Tyndmyr » Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:07 pm UTC

omgryebread wrote:Even if they were viable (and I don't think it's just the voting system that prevent them from being so), I wouldn't vote for anyone who wouldn't caucus with the Democrats. And then only because they had a better chance than the Democrat, or because there was no Democrat running.

This could be because, growing up, my understanding of the respect due to organizations placed the Democratic Party a few steps above the Episcopal Church, which was a somewhat distant second. I think I was 8 or so when I learned that most people don't think of Bill Clinton and Jesus in the same category of divinity. EDIT: This must have been earlier. I went to Catholic School when I was 6, so I would have figured it out by then. Also, I want to make it clear I don't place them on the same category anymore, since I place Bill Clinton much higher.

I bleed blue. I went to my first political event when I was 9, (Martin O'Malley for mayor), I volunteer regularly, and my dream job is working for the DCCC.


This level of party loyalty is interesting, and almost incomprehensible to me...I've voted for members of what, five parties so far? It just all depends. For instance, I respect the hell out of what Clinton did for the economy and balancing the budget. Good moves there. On the flip side, O' Malley(yup, also a marylander) I have no love for. He signed a pretty solid tax increase into law, for instance. Not really a plus for me. Also, the guy ran for office heavily on fixing unemployment. His "state of the state" addresses continue to focus on that, and tout his successes in this area.
Unemployment rate when he took office: 3.6%
Unemployment rate now: 6.8%

So yeah, I'm a bit underwhelmed by him.

omgryebread wrote:How could anyone not have a preference between the two major candidates? They are so vastly different in everything from basic political philosophy to empathy to advanced economic and geopolitical theory, it seems alien to me that someone wouldn't have an overwhelming preference for one, even if they disliked their preferred candidate intensely.

That being said, yeah I get it once I think about it.


*shrug* They're both overwhelmingly big business candidates. Neither of them will significantly address budgetary concerns. Both of them have a similar history on federalized medical insurance(Romneycare/The Affordable Care Act are strangely similar from many POVs). Neither will address prison overcrowding, pot legalization, or other similar issues. Neither is likely all that different on IP matters.

It all depends which issue you care about. For me, neither of the two primary candidates is particularly inspiring, and at this point, my opinion is unlikely to change, since last minute changes in platform issues tend to correlate heavily with "I need votes" instead of a genuine desire to do something new.

And, on a side note...MD is blue as hell. I have no delusions that there is any serious chance of MD going red. So, if I opt to support a third party instead, what's the cost?

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Re: Voting Third Party.

Postby sam_i_am » Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:18 pm UTC

omgryebread wrote:
One of the candidates thinks I and the love of my life aren't in a legitimate relationship, and supports a constitutional amendment that would class our relationship as inferior. The other supports our relationship and has called for it to be legalized.


Well Obama did just come out in support of gay marriage recently, so I'll give you that.

One of the candidates would repeal the law that's the only way I'm getting insurance. The other one passed that law. Even though its not great, its still there.


I bet he'll repeal that faster than Obama closed Guantanamo Bay, and if it does get repealed you can move to Massachusetts. I hear that they have very similar(maybe even more liberal even) healthcare legislation over there

One of the candidates believes that returning us to an era of irresponsible deregulation will help the economy, the other takes realistic views that don't fuck over anyone that isn't rich.

Let me correct that last phrase for you:
"the other pretends to take realistic views that don't fuck over anyone that isn't rich, but has proven to pass legislation that will return us to an era of irresponsible deregulation anyway"

One has publicly stated that he would antagonize the second most powerful country in the world, our greatest rival in geopolitical terms, and also our greatest potential partner in stability, by branding them a currency manipulator.


Are you talking about China? because Liberals and Conservatives alike brand them as a currency manipulator. Probably because they manipulate their currency.

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Re: Voting Third Party.

Postby Ormurinn » Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:51 am UTC

Coming at this from another angle, I vote pretty much exclusively "third party" in the U.K (should it be fourth party? though the Lib Dems are effectively extinct after shitting all over their main constituency) for much the same reasons as have already been mentioned, namely that both main parties are pretty much identical on everything, and the Lib Dems, who for so long were the "alternative" party, are now a satrap of the conservatives.

It's probably going to be UKIP for me this time around. The Greens are too anti-science, and the English Democrats don't put up a candidate in my seat. UKIP also have a decent shot of winning in my seat.

The number one issue for me is equal political representation for my country and labour have explicitly stated thats not something they'll ever consider. I can't in good conscience vote to keep the Tories in power (though I live in a safe seat), especially after they bungled the privatisation of the NHS.

Both Labour and the Conservatives are committed to erosion of civil liberties (Labour with anti-free speech legislation and the Conservatives with computer snooping), Both have taken us into foreign wars (Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya(if it involves bombing people its a war)). Both are ideologically wed to a functionally identical neoliberal economic policy (You can choose between cuts-that-aren't-really-cuts, and slightly less cuts) though labour goes all Keynesian every so often, to show they're still just as good at running up the national debt as they were when they were in power. - and both have managed to tank the economy.Both are in hock to banking interests, and neither is willing to listen to the people on Immigration.

So yeah, UKIP.
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Re: Voting Third Party.

Postby wumpus » Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:48 pm UTC

Third parties have done reasonably well at local & state level. Voting for local candidates in non republicrat parties would strengthen them and give them a base for something other than the ego-trip and spoiler route typical of national third party campaigns.

As far as a "protest vote" goes, I can't imagine a campaign manager considering protest votes as different from non-voters. Did W change a single policy since Green party voters were instrumental in his win?

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Re: Voting Third Party.

Postby Derek » Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:53 pm UTC

wumpus wrote:As far as a "protest vote" goes, I can't imagine a campaign manager considering protest votes as different from non-voters. Did W change a single policy since Green party voters were instrumental in his win?

No, but it might make the Democrats change some of their policies to draw those Green voters back.

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Re: Voting Third Party.

Postby TranquilFury » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:57 pm UTC

Im not going to vote, it's pointless where I live. If I was going to vote I'd write in 'Cthulhu"

If you actually want to influence politics, give money to someone.

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Re: Voting Third Party.

Postby sam_i_am » Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:01 pm UTC

TranquilFury wrote:Im not going to vote, it's pointless where I live. If I was going to vote I'd write in 'Cthulhu"

If you actually want to influence politics, give money to someone.



You can also always write and call your legislators, volunteer for political campaigns, go to activist demonstrations, etc(all of which, when done seriously and consistently enough, are more effective than both voting and donating the maximum $2500 combined)

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Re: Voting Third Party.

Postby omgryebread » Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:55 pm UTC

sam_i_am wrote:Are you talking about China? because Liberals and Conservatives alike brand them as a currency manipulator. Probably because they manipulate their currency.
My only real response to the other things is that Obama has worked in a political reality that's stacked against him. He didn't negotiate well with Congress early, and he lost in the midterms.

For this one, though, China isn't officially labeled a currency manipulator, Romney has stated he would change that. Between his rhetoric on China and Iran, the fact his advisors have called Russia "The Soviet Union" and his missteps in London, I'm really starting to be concerned about his foreign policy.

wumpus wrote:As far as a "protest vote" goes, I can't imagine a campaign manager considering protest votes as different from non-voters. Did W change a single policy since Green party voters were instrumental in his win?
Sure they do. Third party voters are voting, for one. Getting someone to the polls is a different thing than getting them to change their vote. You know you're not dealing with apathy. Antipathy, maybe, but that's a much different approach. You have to convince non-voters that you're not only better than the others, you're also better than previous people, whose policies they didn't feel affected enough by to go and vote. Third party voters, you have to convince of various things. Either that you are liberal/conservative/moderate enough for their tastes, or that you really are different from all those other corporatist major-party hacks, blah blah blah.



sam_i_am wrote:You can also always write and call your legislators, volunteer for political campaigns, go to activist demonstrations, etc(all of which, when done seriously and consistently enough, are more effective than both voting and donating the maximum $2500 combined)
Do these things! Look how much the Ronpaul got to talk about his opinions this election campaign. He could only do it because his (incredibly annoying) supporters really hit these things hard. It certainly wasn't money that propelled him there. A donation to the max legal limit might fund around 4000 direct mail leaflets, at the very max. Most of those go straight in the trash. For 2 hours yesterday working at a phone bank, I called a whole lot of people. It cost me some minutes on my cell phone, and a couple hours, but it was certainly more effective than leaflets. Perhaps even my 2 hour contribution alone was worth more than 4000 leaflets. It's also, if you don't mind getting yelled at (this actually doesn't happen very often) a lot of fun. You meet people who obviously share a lot of your ideals, and care about them.
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Re: Voting Third Party.

Postby Jonesthe Spy » Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:04 pm UTC

I've voted third party, but only when I was confidant that it was not going to be a close contest between the lesser and greater evils.

Democracy is going to be stay completely broken in the U.S. until we institute nationwide IRV.

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Re: Voting Third Party.

Postby Djehutynakht » Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:32 am UTC

I think that one of the problems with new (or even third) parties coming into power in the US is that they (at least appear to) always aim for something high, like President, right off the bat. And of course that's not going to work. I think third parties would be much more viable if they tried to build up a base first. Run for some small offices, like City Council, Town Treasurer, Board of Selectmen. Then run for some higher offices; Mayor, County Sheriff, State Treasurer, State Legislature, etc. Then consolidate that power, spread it out across those levels. Present your party to the people and make them realize that it's a viable, working party. After you have a lot of lower seats, then try going for some higher seats, like Governor, Senator, Representative... Spread on that level. Get some famous celebrities to be in your party. National Figures. And after one of your high officeholders has proven himself in the national spotlight to be really good at his job, then you have him run for President.

I think that would be a much better gameplay then to run someone for president off the bat. I think that's a pipe dream. You need to build up your party first. Libertarians have some support, but I can't think of a single US Third Party who has really done that and has built up a decently high level of lower-level officials.

I've considered starting an inter-party caucus of mostly-middle spectrum politicians to combat the polarization which has been spreading lately.

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Re: Voting Third Party.

Postby Qaanol » Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:33 am UTC

Jonesthe Spy wrote:Democracy is going to be stay completely broken in the U.S. until we institute nationwide IRV Approval Voting.

Fixed.
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Re: Voting Third Party.

Postby Derek » Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:45 am UTC

Djehutynakht wrote:I think that one of the problems with new (or even third) parties coming into power in the US is that they (at least appear to) always aim for something high, like President, right off the bat. And of course that's not going to work. I think third parties would be much more viable if they tried to build up a base first. Run for some small offices, like City Council, Town Treasurer, Board of Selectmen. Then run for some higher offices; Mayor, County Sheriff, State Treasurer, State Legislature, etc. Then consolidate that power, spread it out across those levels. Present your party to the people and make them realize that it's a viable, working party. After you have a lot of lower seats, then try going for some higher seats, like Governor, Senator, Representative... Spread on that level. Get some famous celebrities to be in your party. National Figures. And after one of your high officeholders has proven himself in the national spotlight to be really good at his job, then you have him run for President.

I think that would be a much better gameplay then to run someone for president off the bat. I think that's a pipe dream. You need to build up your party first. Libertarians have some support, but I can't think of a single US Third Party who has really done that and has built up a decently high level of lower-level officials.

I've considered starting an inter-party caucus of mostly-middle spectrum politicians to combat the polarization which has been spreading lately.

None of the third parties expect to win the Presidency. It's a publicity stunt. No one cares about a party that is only putting up a few candidates for local elections, but get 5 or 10% in the Presidential election and people will start paying you some attention. Then you can start winning some of the small elections. The Libertarians and one or two other parties have won several small elections like this. Some of them have also gotten celebrities to back them or even run as candidates, as well. Jesse Ventura (a professional wrestler) severed as Governor of Minnesota for the Reform Party.

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Re: Voting Third Party.

Postby Giant Speck » Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:51 am UTC

I voted Libertarian in the 2008 presidential election and I'm leaning toward doing so again in November.
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Re: Voting Third Party.

Postby faranim » Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:06 pm UTC

I have never voted in any election, because I have always thought that both candidates sucked (douche vs turd).

2012 is the first year that I am definitely going to vote. And I am voting for Gary Johnson, or possibly Jill Stein. Apparently they might not be on the ballot in Maryland due to some nonsense regarding the party registration expiring. In which case I would find a valid write-in candidate that best represents me.

For me, it comes down to issues. Obama and Romney agree with me on about 20% of my issues, while Johnson or Stein agree with me like 80%. Any candidate that isn't at least 50% in agreement with me isn't deserving of my vote. But I would also vote strategically if given the option (e.g. Obama vs the Ronpaul, I would vote for the Ronpaul rather than 3rd party - at least I agree with most of the Ronpaul's stances on issues).


Although honestly, the whole system is broken. First past the post sucks - virtually any other voting system would be better (Approval, Range, Instant Runoff, etc). The only way to change this is to push local elections (County/State) to use something other than FPTP. If enough states implement approval or instant-runoff or whatever, then we can begin pushing for changing the federal process.

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Re: Voting Third Party.

Postby omgryebread » Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:46 pm UTC

faranim wrote:I have never voted in any election, because I have always thought that both candidates sucked (douche vs turd).

2012 is the first year that I am definitely going to vote. And I am voting for Gary Johnson, or possibly Jill Stein. Apparently they might not be on the ballot in Maryland due to some nonsense regarding the party registration expiring. In which case I would find a valid write-in candidate that best represents me.

For me, it comes down to issues. Obama and Romney agree with me on about 20% of my issues, while Johnson or Stein agree with me like 80%. Any candidate that isn't at least 50% in agreement with me isn't deserving of my vote. But I would also vote strategically if given the option (e.g. Obama vs the Ronpaul, I would vote for the Ronpaul rather than 3rd party - at least I agree with most of the Ronpaul's stances on issues).


Although honestly, the whole system is broken. First past the post sucks - virtually any other voting system would be better (Approval, Range, Instant Runoff, etc). The only way to change this is to push local elections (County/State) to use something other than FPTP. If enough states implement approval or instant-runoff or whatever, then we can begin pushing for changing the federal process.
Out of curiosity, how can you agree with both Johnson or Stein more than Romney or Obama? I suppose you could be heavily weighting demilitarization and drug policy, but I'd be interested in seeing how you approach it, since I basically put Johnson to the right of Romney on most issues, and Stein to the left of Obama.
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Re: Voting Third Party.

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:49 pm UTC

The right/left spectrum heavily focuses on certain issues. For someone who doesn't prioritize those things, I could easily see some unusual matchups of better options. For instance, there's a lot of anti-bank bailout sentiment out there...both in the far left AND the far right, yet both of the main parties were heavily involved in that mess.

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Re: Voting Third Party.

Postby Роберт » Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:10 pm UTC

omgryebread wrote:I suppose you could be heavily weighting demilitarization and drug policy, but I'd be interested in seeing how you approach it, since I basically put Johnson to the right of Romney on most issues, and Stein to the left of Obama.

Yeah, right/left is a terrible dichotomy. I *think* I came up with a more agreement with Stein than Obama, but I scored pretty high with Johnson and Paul.
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