Police misbehavior thread

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Ginger » Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:58 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:Though I've heard that in practice, that is not well-enforced.

And spelling it out that way now, it makes me realize that until a certain threshold is met, tips to workers are actually just tips to the business, and make no difference in the workers' take-home. E.g. in the above scenario, if people are tipping at about $4/hr/worker, the workers still take home exactly what they would have taken home if there had been no tips at all, but the business gets to save $4/hr/worker on wages. That's pretty fucked up and makes me feel like I shouldn't tip at all anymore.

I never heard all that stuffs? Wow. Anyways, if you feel like tipping is a burden on you then, go you yet. I'm... not sure bosses Ever enforce those rules? Like, any time I ever asked a boss for my actual wages when they felt like denying me, they just said 'no' and again 'no.' And no promotions for higher salaries either. And if I make too much in tips they just take it all. And... it is abuse but. It isn't police abuse so why we howling a/the moon about it?
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby morriswalters » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:33 pm UTC

elasto wrote:
sardia wrote:I dunno, why do us soldiers have extra charities?

Presumably the same reason US police officers do? Because the government isn't taking good enough care of them?

(We have become slightly Americanized when it comes to UK soldier charities (Help for Heroes etc.) but, for the most part, we expect our government to take care of our soldiers just like we expect our government to take care of our police, our teachers and so on: If they need a pay rise give them a pay rise, don't force them to have to rely on charity...)
You might want to do a little looking around before talking about this subject.

Our police are pretty well paid. In some cases they can double dip, that is, draw a full pension after 20 or 30 and then get SS after that if they continue to work doing something else. And that pension can be as much as their full pay at retirement. So much so that a lot of municipalities are having problems paying them. And their pay isn't shabby. They in general get pretty good healthcare. Overall cops do OK. They are not suffering. Charities in general here make up for shortcomings that people perceive, or are just outright scams. And some are propaganda arms which help police maintain their status and fight the political battles they fight. The Fraternal Order of Police in my locale are the political front men when there are battle to be fought. A cop shoots someone, and the FOP rides to the rescue.

Just what did you think they were doing with the money for those get out of jail free cards. Mostly they are selling a dream and buying political favors. With no risk and no cost.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby sociotard » Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:03 am UTC

Hey, look draconian enforcement and confiscation of personal property without due process . . . and it isn't the USA this time!

Critics slam Rotterdam police plan to confiscate expensive clothes

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Sableagle » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:19 pm UTC

bantler wrote:
elasto wrote:It brings to mind the practice of tipping - which outside of occasionally being done in restaurants and taxis is practically unheard of here - whereas in the US it seems practically ubiquitous (if one believes the movies anyway...)

Here we believe that if your pay isn't high enough that's the fault of your firm, not the fault of your customers. Likewise, if the families of police officers are not being taken care of properly, that's the fault of the government not, um, those whom the police officers patrol.


In the US low-pay is the governments fault.
In some states Lobbyists can get restaurant workers' pay down to a fraction of minimum-wage because tips are supposed to make up the deficit.

Some companies tried to get that shit to fly in our airspace, and it met some turbulence.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 67634.html
Britain's restaurants are creaming off millions of pounds of customers' tips to boost their profits, an investigation by The Independent has found.

A series of legal ploys are being used by major companies including Strada, PizzaExpress and Carluccio's to take a slice of the £4bn a year that diners leave for low-paid staff in tips.

*Carluccio's, Café Rouge, Chez Gerard, Strada and Café Uno all pay their staff less than the minimum wage and use customers' tips to make up the balance in their employees' pay;

*PizzaExpress takes an 8 per cent cut of tips left on a credit card;

*One chain of Asian restaurants, Georgetown, takes 100 per cent of tips;

*Staff at one London eatery receive no basic wage at all.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... probe.html
There was outrage this month when some of the country’s best known restaurant chains including Pizza Express, Strada, Zizzi, Ask Italian and Giraffe were accused of keeping all or part of the service charges automatically added to bills rather than passing them on to staff. Côte – a French-style brassiere with 72 branches nationwide – said its 12.5 per cent service charge was added to staff pay to give workers an hourly rate of around £7.50 to £8 – which is above the national minimum wage of £6.50. Staff were reportedly instructed to say the charge goes to workers if asked about it by customers.


Even the Daily Heil sided with the workin' poor on this one.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -fees.html
Britain's biggest restaurant chains are routinely keeping a share of tips left by customers for waiting staff, it has emerged.

Low-paid waiters and waitresses lose up to 10 per cent of the service charge paid by diners using debit or credit cards.

The restaurants say the money is used to cover administration fees.

Many of the chains claim they do not use these tips to boost profits.

Instead, they say the money covers the cost of placing the tips into a central electronic fund, known as a tronc, where they can then be fairly distributed between staff.

But unions say that many rival chains hand over 100 per cent of tips paid by card to staff, including Wagamama, Carluccio’s, Chiquito, Frankie & Benny’s and Garfunkel’s.

Mr Turnbull said the pooled tips system mostly benefited bosses, who could avoid paying national insurance contributions on tips from credit and debit cards.


When the Daily Hate Mail and the Independent are both calling you a bunch of bastards for the same reason, you know you've fucked up.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:10 am UTC

I don't yet know if this is a police misbehavior story, but I just first-hand witnessed some intense police behavior and I want to share it with someone: I just saw someone get tazed like 3m away from me.

I drove out to get snacks. About two blocks from the shop, there's some guy walking around the median of the road. I figure he's just being stupid about crossing. Buy my snacks, head back. At that same place as I saw the guy in the median, traffic is being stopped by a whole bunch of police cars up ahead at the nearest light. I figure there's been an accident. Some guy, possibly the same guy, is walking down the street the opposite direction from how I'm driving, on the side of the street this time, not the middle of it, but like 1 lane over from me. I thought, maybe that idiot wandering in the median caused an accident.

Then I notice there are cops in bullet proof vests also walking down the street faster behind him. The guy starts to run, then immediately stops and turns around, right fucking next to my car, looking like he's maybe gonna try to fight them or something. Then they taze him, he falls over like a rag doll, and four or five cops pin him down and cuff him.

When they let traffic start moving and I drive through the intersection with all the cop cars, there's no accident, but there is ANOTHER cop in a bullet proof vest holding a rifle up defensively while standing on yet another (civillian) guy. I don't know what the fuck happened there, and I wonder if there was some kind of more serious crime committed (and the guy in the middle of the street was trying to flee the scene or something?), or if this was just a major overreaction to some drunk morons jay walking.

I'll post more when actual details hit the real news.

ETA: A quick google shows the sherrif's patrol event list includes two events, 180013670 and 180013671, at the correct time and place, labelled "SUSPICIOUS SUBJECT".
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby eran_rathan » Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:44 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote: But what if there's a moderate middle ground. We already have juries. What if some kind of jury of randomly selected peers are polled to gauge if it's reasonable that the accused should have known what he was doing was a crime.


This is kinda what a Grand Jury does. Happens all the time.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:10 pm UTC

Juries scare the crap out of me. The whole idea that your fate is decided by a dozen people who have few if any defenses against a professional liar lawyer, and are selected by those lawyers specifically to be the most manipulatable group possible.

My attorney family members confirmed what I suspected about lawyers and trials; lawyers are super racist when it comes to rigging selecting jurors. Interestingly, they (my family) love black women of all backgrounds on juries, but utterly despise yuppie white women. Other lawyers choose differently based on their own style, and of course the demographic of the client and the type of case, as you want the most or least sympathetic jury depending on whether you are representing the plaintiff or defendant.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby eran_rathan » Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:59 pm UTC

I agree, but until you can come up with a more fair way to determine guilt...

I wish that there was a way for an AI to determine guilt dispassionately while dispensing both justice and mercy.

and yes, I'm OK with abrogating my civic duties to serve, I've done jury duty 3 times, and each time was awful - I mean, when a DA pretty blatantly pulls some ex post facto bullshit and you call them on it, but then the other jurors over-rule you just because they don't want to be there...
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:10 pm UTC

Horror story overheard, so anecdata.

Jury was given some case that seemed trumped up, being charged for so much for some relatively minkr infraction, but the cops and DA seemed really intent upon railroading the guy. The jury decided to convict because there had to be a reason why the DA was after the guy, right? After the case, evidence showed the dependent had probably done some serious shit, but the evidence was withheld for technicalities and such. But what if there wasn't, it was a different scenario and the man had just been targeted for some other reason?

There seems to be basically an arms race going on between defence attorneys and juries. The more that defence attorneys, civil rights attorneys, etc can disallow, the more that juries will counter by convicting on ever flimsier evidence. That's basically our justice system in a nutshell anyway; what's this, you are on crack? How are you paying for it? We all know that crack addictions cause crime. Obviously you must be mugging people and burglarizing the community, 10 years in prison for crimes we can't prove!

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby eran_rathan » Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:15 pm UTC

that, and the obvious systemic racism between drug offenses - marijuana possession - slap on the wrist, because suburban white people (unless there is a lot, then its possession with intent to distribute, so lock them away forever. cocaine - slap on the wrist, because rich white people. crack or heroin? Poor people - ludicrous sentences for tiny amounts, because fuck you, that's why.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Pfhorrest » Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:14 am UTC

Just to follow up: that tazing I witnessed last night turns out not to be police misbehavior at all.

http://www.vcstar.com/story/news/crime/ ... 068841001/
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:25 am UTC

Hey, at least no shots were fired, last thing you need is a stray bullet.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby ObsessoMom » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:17 pm UTC

While checking to see if there have been any new developments regarding San Diego County Sheriff's Deputy Fischer (answer: apparently not), I came across this rather astonishing Voice of San Diego article from last August. Maybe this is why San Diego County Sheriff Bill Gore is being so slow and cautious in the investigation of Fischer.

On Rare Occasions, the Sheriff Has to Sue to Keep Problem Deputies off the Job

San Diego County Sheriff Bill Gore occasionally has to sue to keep fired deputies from returning to the job. In some cases, even that doesn’t work.

In June, Gore filed a lawsuit against the county’s Civil Service Commission – an independent review board to which county employees can appeal disciplinary actions – alleging the commission had abused its discretion by reinstating Jeffrey Hornacek, a deputy fired earlier this year because Gore decided he was incompetent and unfit for public service.

The case provides a rare look at officer discipline proceedings in a state that keeps such information under lock and key. Though Sheriff’s Department data from the past nine years shows it’s relatively rare for fired deputies to be reinstated, it does happen.


The article goes on to detail just how horrifyingly incompetent Deputy Hornacek was, which is interesting in its own right. But the lack of transparency surrounding officer discipline points to a broader, systemic problem in law enforcement.

The nation’s largest law enforcement agencies fired at least 1,881 officers for misconduct since 2006, the Washington Post reported earlier this month. Those departments, however, were forced to reinstate at least 450 deputies after they appealed those decisions to a review panel – including a police officer who challenged a handcuffed man to fight him for the chance to be released and another officer convicted of sexually abusing a young woman in his patrol car.

Absent from the Washington Post story, however, were any examples from California. That’s at least partly because the state has some of the most restrictive laws in the country when it comes to the release of information on law enforcement agencies and the officers they employ.

In fact, the only reason the information has been made public in Hornacek’s case is because Gore took the rare step of suing the county to keep him off the force.

Through the early 2000s, Civil Service Commission hearings in which deputies appealed disciplinary decisions were open to the public. But after 2006, as a result of the landmark Copley Press v. Superior Court case, those meetings were closed. That means instances of police and deputy misconduct remain largely hidden from public view.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby sardia » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:42 pm UTC

If you're curious why all these officers keep getting reinstated, the short answer is police unions. All the terrible things that Republicans say unions do? Police unions do it.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby idonno » Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:52 am UTC

Sounds like we need some FOIA type rules for police departments that they must comply with in order to receive any federal funding

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby gmalivuk » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:31 pm UTC

Unless stated otherwise, I do not care whether a statement, by itself, constitutes a persuasive political argument. I care whether it's true.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:10 pm UTC

If only we could replace the police guns with toys as punishment.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:34 pm UTC

It is Sad.
It is Frightening.

And; From my limited experience, I believe every word is True.
Even little Towns have Bad Actors in the Police. I've seen it.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby sardia » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:24 am UTC


You'd think they would at least spring for a real gun. That just smacks if laziness.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby morriswalters » Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:34 am UTC

Obviously you aren't thinking it through. A stolen gun would be problematic if discovered, or maybe not in Baltimore, but a toy gun isn't illegal.
addams wrote:
It is Sad.
It is Frightening.

And; From my limited experience, I believe every word is True.
Even little Towns have Bad Actors in the Police. I've seen it.
No doubt, corruption is pretty rampant, everywhere. Corrupt cops, corrupt politicians, corrupt doctors, corrupt military. Oh that's right, corrupt humans.

I do have to admit, this is about as bad as I've seen lately. And if I had put Corrupt User in that list would he have thought it was amusing?

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Dauric » Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:54 am UTC

sardia wrote:

You'd think they would at least spring for a real gun. That just smacks if laziness.


No, it's not laziness, it's more believable that the kid found a toy gun that the parents don't recognize as having bought and was pointing it at cops than that the child found a real one just laying around the neighborhood. Also a real firearm will instigate an investigation in to how that firearm came to be there to be 'found by the child/suspect/victim' in the first place, and who potentially used it to commit what crime, and why was it dropped/disposed of. Toy guns invoke less paperwork when they're found, especially paperwork that could point right back to the police evidence locker.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby jewish_scientist » Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:40 pm UTC

I think people are being really unfair to the cops by generalizing these incidents of corruption. The problem is that someone doing their job poorly, such as a cop shooting an armed suspect, is news and a person doing their job correctly, such as a cop shooting an armed suspect, is not. I remember a while ago that the FBI investigated someone, did not find sufficient reason to continue the investigation, and stopped investigating; when this person actually became a terrorist and killed many people, the FBI was heavily criticized for stopping the investigation. However, the dozens of times investigations are stopped and people end up being innocent are never reported and investigations resulting in arrests much less publicized. It's Survivor Bias in reverse.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Mutex » Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:02 pm UTC

#notallcops

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Thesh » Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:10 pm UTC

jewish_scientist wrote:I think people are being really unfair to the cops by generalizing these incidents of corruption. The problem is that someone doing their job poorly, such as a cop shooting an armed suspect, is news and a person doing their job correctly, such as a cop shooting an armed suspect, is not. I remember a while ago that the FBI investigated someone, did not find sufficient reason to continue the investigation, and stopped investigating; when this person actually became a terrorist and killed many people, the FBI was heavily criticized for stopping the investigation. However, the dozens of times investigations are stopped and people end up being innocent are never reported and investigations resulting in arrests much less publicized. It's Survivor Bias in reverse.


In many departments, cops look the other way when other cops commit crimes; they know it is going on, and don't say anything. That's what's going on here. Their job is to go after criminals, but they will not do so when those criminals are cops. They protect the powerful and allow the weak to be abused, and as far as I'm concerned that makes them accessories.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby natraj » Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:12 pm UTC

jewish_scientist wrote: The problem is that someone doing their job poorly, such as a cop shooting an armed suspect, is news and a person doing their job correctly, such as a cop shooting an armed suspect, is not.


truly, the problem is that we don't just spend more time lauding cops for shooting people
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby sardia » Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:21 pm UTC

Didn't a poster here have family who were cops? We never did get an answer out of him before he fled the anti police sentiment. Knight exemplar I think.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby jewish_scientist » Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:28 pm UTC

natraj wrote:
jewish_scientist wrote: The problem is that someone doing their job poorly, such as a cop shooting an armed suspect, is news and a person doing their job correctly, such as a cop shooting an armed suspect, is not.


truly [sic], the problem is that we don't just spend more time lauding cops for shooting people

Of course it is better if no one is shot, but there are plenty of situations where shooting someone is the best course of action.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Ginger » Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:55 pm UTC

We are only complaining when cops shoots, brutalize or DO NOT PROPERLY enforces laws... nothing else. So to recap: When cops shoot their guns unnecessarily, brutalize or abuse a man or woman... THAT'S the complains. Not when they do their jobs properly. And they do criticize them unfairly sometimes yet: Cops rarely do their jobs according to the laws anyways, they don't even protects and services for homeless women and girls and just tell them to get out of town/get lost. Cops are not doing their jobs right, it's practically an epidemic now. So that is why ppls are complaining. No other reasons. Cops don't do their jobs and protects each other when they are the ones abusing, brutalize, and not protecting and serving anymore.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:45 pm UTC

But what about when the cops DO do their job as trained and they kill an unarmed man that they reasonably thought was armed?

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Zohar » Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:46 pm UTC

jewish_scientist wrote:Of course it is better if no one is shot, but there are plenty of situations where shooting someone is the best course of action.

Like if they're black? The fact cops are able to do their jobs without killing when the suspect is white and can't seem to do so when the suspect is black (most of the time etc. etc.) is proof of their corruption and inability to actually do their jobs.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Ginger » Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:56 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:But what about when the cops DO do their job as trained and they kill an unarmed man that they reasonably thought was armed?

That is valid and can be discussed, it is a tragedy, scandal, injustices in every senses of the words... it should be thoroughly checked over to make sure no missteps were made, the family of the unarm man being shot should get their times to process and heal, say what happen in courts even if they wanna. Cops involve should be given times to adjust to what they done, investigate by their peers to see if their usage of forces was justify and if it was? Nothing should happen to those cops. No prosecution or even reprimands by their bosses. All too often tho' that is not the cases I am seeing in the news. The cases I am seeing is that cops can act at will to dispenses lethal forces on "violent, possibly armed suspects" w/o regard for the suspects' bodily autonomy, give them conflicting orders and shoots to Kill Kill Kill when they do not comply 'properly.' If you gotta news story where cops followed all their own rules and Still... came to the conclusions they must Shoot to Kill, then... I'd love to see it? If not then... we got nothing to discuss other than cops Not. Doing. Their Jobs?
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:57 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:
jewish_scientist wrote:Of course it is better if no one is shot, but there are plenty of situations where shooting someone is the best course of action.

Like if they're black? The fact cops are able to do their jobs without killing when the suspect is white and can't seem to do so when the suspect is black (most of the time etc. etc.) is proof of their corruption and inability to actually do their jobs.


It's more that they have more contact with black people than white, which is various flavors racism of course. Statistically, you are much more likely to be questioned or harassed by the cops if black, which leads to far more black people killed, but given that you are being harassed by the cops, you are more likely to be killed if you are white.

Get the cops to stop racial profiling, and it's likely the rest will sort itself out.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Quercus » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:06 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:but given that you are being harassed by the cops, you are more likely to be killed if you are white.

Do you have a source for that? I'm not necessarily doubting it, but it goes very against my expectations, so I'd like to read how that was arrived at (sorry if i missed it
earlier in the thread).

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Zohar » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:07 pm UTC

Yeah I'm also wondering where you got that from. But in any case you literally described corruption and malpractice as a commonplace habit of the police.
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Mutex
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Mutex » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:13 pm UTC

It would make sense if the cops are stopping black people for no good reason, so most black people stopped are innocent, while white people are only stopped for a good reason, so a higher percentage of white people stopped are actually criminals resulting in a higher chance of a shootout.

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LaserGuy
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby LaserGuy » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:28 pm UTC

jewish_scientist wrote:I think people are being really unfair to the cops by generalizing these incidents of corruption. The problem is that someone doing their job poorly, such as a cop shooting an armed suspect, is news and a person doing their job correctly, such as a cop shooting an armed suspect, is not. I remember a while ago that the FBI investigated someone, did not find sufficient reason to continue the investigation, and stopped investigating; when this person actually became a terrorist and killed many people, the FBI was heavily criticized for stopping the investigation. However, the dozens of times investigations are stopped and people end up being innocent are never reported and investigations resulting in arrests much less publicized. It's Survivor Bias in reverse.


Please read the article posted above by gmalivuk (it's here, more here). This isn't an example of "someone doing their job poorly". This is example of an entire unit of cops acting like an organized crime gang. They were involved in bribery, extortion, robbery, racketeering, planting evidence, and God knows what else. And just to be clear, none of this is speculation. Six officers have already plead guilty to these charges.

Chen
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Chen » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:36 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Please read the article posted above by gmalivuk (it's here, more here). This isn't an example of "someone doing their job poorly". This is example of an entire unit of cops acting like an organized crime gang. They were involved in bribery, extortion, robbery, racketeering, planting evidence, and God knows what else. And just to be clear, none of this is speculation. Six officers have already plead guilty to these charges.


It's still far from evidence that ALL the cops are the problem. In terms of data this is the hardest part to see. How many people were either complicit or at the very least aware of these things? As in how tight knit are entire departments. The Baltimore PD has ~3000 employees (according to Wikipedia). That's a lot. I certainly have no doubt more than the 8 people indicted were aware of this. Is it 50% of the force? 90%? There'd need to be 10x the number of people in the departments aware to hit ~3%. With the massive decentralized nature of the police in the US I'm not sure how you'd ever actually determine this number.

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CorruptUser
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:47 pm UTC

total arrests by race

On a phone, so forgive me, grabbing the next thing before it times out. Will edit soon.

quarter of people killed by cops black. Doesn't exclude suicide by cop or car accidents, but whatever.

Can't find a better source, later when I get home. Basically, black people make up a slightly higher percent of arrests than they do deaths from the police, even more when you exclude stuff like DUI and such, not that drunk driving has not led to cops shooting people (I'm reminded of that bodycam footage of a cop shooting a drunk black guy as he tried to drive away). So basically it appears that black people are arrested far more often than white people, for whatever reason (large part racism), but the police kill a smaller percentage of black people they are trying to detain (if we assume black people and white people escape arrest at the same rate).

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LaserGuy
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby LaserGuy » Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:05 pm UTC

Chen wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:Please read the article posted above by gmalivuk (it's here, more here). This isn't an example of "someone doing their job poorly". This is example of an entire unit of cops acting like an organized crime gang. They were involved in bribery, extortion, robbery, racketeering, planting evidence, and God knows what else. And just to be clear, none of this is speculation. Six officers have already plead guilty to these charges.


It's still far from evidence that ALL the cops are the problem. In terms of data this is the hardest part to see. How many people were either complicit or at the very least aware of these things? As in how tight knit are entire departments. The Baltimore PD has ~3000 employees (according to Wikipedia). That's a lot. I certainly have no doubt more than the 8 people indicted were aware of this. Is it 50% of the force? 90%? There'd need to be 10x the number of people in the departments aware to hit ~3%. With the massive decentralized nature of the police in the US I'm not sure how you'd ever actually determine this number.


Sure, but it says something about the culture of the police force that this happened. And it's a persistent problem... just a few years ago, 17 officers in the Baltimore PD faced federal charges (14 guilty pleas) for another racketeering scheme, with 37 additional officers implicated.

Chen
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Chen » Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:21 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Sure, but it says something about the culture of the police force that this happened. And it's a persistent problem... just a few years ago, 17 officers in the Baltimore PD faced federal charges (14 guilty pleas) for another racketeering scheme, with 37 additional officers implicated.


Do we have any numbers on corruption in police versus other fields though? I've personally seen a ton of corruption in educational administration, for example, but its rarely spoken about. Police corruption, like almost any other government corruption, tends to be more visible, but I do wonder how different it is compared to other fields. Banking or other wall street business seem ripe for it, what with the amount of money moving around. Any industry where kickbacks are stereotypical would also seem to fall under the corruption umbrella, like construction.

I very much question whether police corruption is more abnormal than other corruption. Now, I can posit that the police should in fact be far LESS corrupt (due to their influence and impact on people's lives) than other fields.


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