The Darker Side of the News

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gd1
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby gd1 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:32 am UTC

addams wrote:We are back to our usual positions.

"meh"??!
You may have the luxury or lack of awareness to be "meh".
The rest of us are worried, anxious, angry and terrified.


A man will pass by a grave and wish that he was in their place. [Bukhari]

Mothers are frightened to send their children to school.


Children will be filled with rage. [at-Tabarani, al-Hakim]

Moscow Mitch is confident in his Stonewalling while we,
The People, fume with helpless, impotent anger.


The leader of a people will be the worst of them. [Tirmidhi]

Otherwise kind persons that view Hate T.V.
verbally attack their friends and family.


There will be people who will be brethren in public, but enemies in secret. (When asked how that would come about, he replied, "Because they will have ulterior motives in their mutual dealings, and at the same time they will fear one another.") [Tirmidhi]

===

I'm not terrified. I figure the world wasn't going to last forever anyways. Though that's my belief and you probably have different beliefs. Which is a part of life.
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CorruptUser
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:43 am UTC

I think it's more that people are overwhelmed with just trying to get their own lives in order and don't have enough energy for anyone else, rather than an inherent lack of empathy for others.

But let's be honest here about our serious problems. And yes, these are my views on these matters.

tl;dr version: "Things used to be much worse but we were blind to it, maaaan"

Minority rights; Massive improvement since the 60's, and still massively improving even if many feel it should be improving faster
Environment; We are improving, even if it is a little late. Sins of the fathers may come down hard if we don't continue improving
Police brutality; IMHO, not as bad as it was decades ago, but that's exactly high praise.
Income equality; The one thing we definitely aren't improving at all. Things have been getting progressively worse for the middle class, let alone the working classes, because fuck you, your landlord needs more rental income
News; An utter shitshow, and only recently been revealed to be an utter shitshow, but improving slightly thanks to the internet
Health; Mixed bag. People living longer, but public health crises due to special interests in government. I know that we absolutely need to put corn into as much as possible lest Ma'ize'bub awaken and devour us all, but do we need to subsidize corn-sugar and stuff it in everything we eat?
Voting/representation; Some improvement, at least we have some way of fact checking our assholes-in-charge

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby commodorejohn » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:36 am UTC

Are "things," in general, better now than they were 60 years ago? Sure, I'll grant you that.

Does that make the situation we're living through right now (and, especially, the open resurgence of some "things" that were looking like they were finally on their way to being buried, like meaningfully influential white-supremacist/white-nationalist movements) not deeply alarming? Fuck no.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby idonno » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:42 pm UTC

I'm pretty sure that there is a difference between claiming things are meh and claiming that for a cyberpunk dystopia things are meh. Context of a statement can be pretty important.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:13 pm UTC

It's a bit of both.

But in response to Commodore, I'm Jewish. The white supremacists? They often ally with black supremacists such as Louis Farrakhan, they may even one day become tolerant of homosexuals (at least Male homosexuals) if Milo Yannapoopyface is any indication, but they will never make peace with Jews. We have more reason than any other group to be concerned with them. I can tell you it is not white supremacists that are our biggest concern when it comes to bigotry against us...

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby addams » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:48 pm UTC

umm...If it's not 'them' then who is it?
They are scary to me and I'm Lilly White.

Maybe, many of your particular group can 'pass'. Is that it?
Our Black and Hispanic Brothers and Sisters can't pass.

I can and do float above the fray.
I can't help worrying about others.

If Nazi and White Supremists are not a concern for the Jewish Community,
Who Is??!
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby sardia » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:07 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:It's a bit of both.

But in response to Commodore, I'm Jewish. The white supremacists? They often ally with black supremacists such as Louis Farrakhan, they may even one day become tolerant of homosexuals (at least Male homosexuals) if Milo Yannapoopyface is any indication, but they will never make peace with Jews. We have more reason than any other group to be concerned with them. I can tell you it is not white supremacists that are our biggest concern when it comes to bigotry against us...

You rank anti-Semitism as more dangerous then the anti immigrant far right? Or are you saying statistically Nazi/far right is more dangerous, but you care more about Jewish lives?

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:54 pm UTC

While antisemitic hate crimes are only 1/5 as frequent as racism/xenophobia combined, Jews make up a whopping 2% of the population while foreign-born citizens make up around 1/6 and black people another 1/8, plus all the natural born Hispanics, etc. So statistically, antisemitic hate crimes are much, much more serious a threat to Jews than anti-black crimes are to blacks or anti-Islamic hate crimes to muslims, etc. The only close comparison is homophobic crimes, but those have been tapering off the coast few decades. Anti-trans* is probably the most serious at the moment.

link

But when it comes to the future of Jews in the US and the rest of the western world, it's not white supremacists that are our biggest worry. I dont know, maybe they should be, but our biggest concern is rather with a combination of the far left and various Islamist groups.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Mutex » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:27 am UTC

You think the far left is a threat to Jewish existence in the West? More so than far right groups that explicitly want to eliminate you? Can you elaborate?

I know there are groups on the left who have a less than sympathetic view on Israel due to how they view their actions against Palestinians, I must say I haven't heard of any that want to ethnically cleanse the West of all people of Jewish descent.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby gd1 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:49 am UTC

^
|
Muslim.
I do have a problem with the way the Zionists are killing unarmed uninvolved Palestinian civilians. I don't harbor any issues against Jews in general. Muslims don't fight except against people who attack us or attempt oppression. We try for a peaceful approach wherever possible using violence when no other option is available. Hence, "religion of peace". It's just that painting us as bloodthirsty barbarians sells well on the news, so that's what is commonly seen unfortunately.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby commodorejohn » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:43 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:But when it comes to the future of Jews in the US and the rest of the western world, it's not white supremacists that are our biggest worry. I dont know, maybe they should be, but our biggest concern is rather with a combination of the far left and various Islamist groups.

See, that's as may be, but as with your original assertion, the problem is that "I and my particular group have bigger concerns at the moment," even if true, does not make other alarming things not alarming. For all I know you may be right to be more concerned about other groups posing a bigger threat to Jews at this particular point in time, but that doesn't mean that the white-supremacist movement hasn't been on the resurgence in the last 5-10 years, nor does it mean that they're not a threat to other groups - just ask the people of El Paso.

(I could also go on a bit about how just because they're not focusing on you for the moment because they're too busy frothing at the mouth over other, browner people doesn't mean they won't come back to the Jews eventually, but honestly I don't think they're any less alarming whether they're pointing the gun at you or them or me; I'm as pasty and Nordic as they come, and they worry the fuck outta me, because the thing about groups who think they get to decide who's a person and who isn't and who lives and who dies is that in the end they always boil down to people who crave power over others and enjoy hurting anybody who isn't "in the club," and when they run out of people who are "Other" by their stated and most clearly visible metrics, they'll turn on the less obvious offenders just to have some target to keep that hate-rush going. Even if I were somehow able to turn off empathy and ignore the horrifying consequences of their behavior on a human level, there'd be no reason for me to think myself "safe" just because I'm not on the official kill-list.)
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Zohar » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:49 pm UTC

Yeah I'm an Israeli Jew and I pretty much abhor Israel's government. Saying that the left is a danger to Jews is... far out, I would say. It's still true that Jews suffer antisemitism in the US (and other places), and Israel is over-criticized by the UN (though I would argue Israel has more freedom to change its ways than other countries that are not as often criticized). And yeah there can be anti-Zionist rhetoric that borders on antisemitism, but I'm not sure any of those people (BDS supporters etc.) actually perpetrated violence or tried to oppress Jews, at least not compared to the amount of fear mongering originating from right wing extremists.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:51 pm UTC

Oh yes, it was all in defensive wars that Muslims conquered all the way from parts of India to Spain in order to protect themselves. /snark

As for leftwing, it's the Red-Green-Brown alliance. The far left, the red of communism, Islamists (NOT muslims in general), the green, and the far right, the brown of fascism. Why do many feel the far left more dangerous than far right? Couple of reasons. First, the universities are the next generation, or at least the intelligentsia of the next gen, and they are doing everything in their power to squash the far right and promote various leftwing ideas, and ever greater percentages of people go to the universities. Second, while there've always been racists and fascists, the latest surge of fascists in Europe has been the reaction to Islamist groups and terrorism, and Jews are getting caught up as these things never end well for us.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Zohar » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:13 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Oh yes, it was all in defensive wars that Muslims conquered all the way from parts of India to Spain in order to protect themselves. /snark

As opposed to Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, and practically any other religion, that never had wars fought in their name?
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:15 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:Oh yes, it was all in defensive wars that Muslims conquered all the way from parts of India to Spain in order to protect themselves. /snark

As opposed to Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, and practically any other religion, that never had wars fought in their name?


Of course not. Just dont go around claiming any one in particular is peaceful.

Except maybe Bahai and Jainism.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Zohar » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:01 pm UTC

I mean religions and religious leaders can change and the example you gave is like 700 years old or something so.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby ijuin » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:07 pm UTC

Did anybody go out and fight wars of conquest in the name of Buddhism (or in the name of spreading Buddhism)? I don’t know enough history of south/southeast Asia to be sure.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Zohar » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:12 pm UTC

I think like many other acts of violence in the name of religion, these are often people who look for increased access to resources and use religion as their excuse. But anyway, here's a list.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby gmalivuk » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:34 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Why do many feel the far left more dangerous than far right? Couple of reasons. First, the universities are the next generation, or at least the intelligentsia of the next gen, and they are doing everything in their power to squash the far right and promote various leftwing ideas, and ever greater percentages of people go to the universities.
Okay but do you have any reasons that aren't just regurgitated right-wing talking points about "anti-conservative bias" or whatever?

Of course there's anti-Semitism across the political spectrum, and the left has a particular need to self-crit if they're going to pretend to be against oppression, but even the most anti-Semitic of AuthCom tankies aren't, to my knowledge, the ones actually stockpiling guns and other weapons to kill Jews.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Mutex » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:39 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:As for leftwing, it's the Red-Green-Brown alliance. The far left, the red of communism, Islamists (NOT muslims in general), the green, and the far right, the brown of fascism. Why do many feel the far left more dangerous than far right? Couple of reasons. First, the universities are the next generation, or at least the intelligentsia of the next gen, and they are doing everything in their power to squash the far right and promote various leftwing ideas, and ever greater percentages of people go to the universities. Second, while there've always been racists and fascists, the latest surge of fascists in Europe has been the reaction to Islamist groups and terrorism, and Jews are getting caught up as these things never end well for us.

So if I'm understanding correctly, you think there are significant numbers of people at universities who are so anti-American, anti-Zionism and anti-globalism they ally themselves with Islamists and Fascists?

I don't see much evidence that's as much a problem as you claim. I mean, I've heard of horseshoe theory and agree the far left extremes end up imitating the far right, but an imitation of something still isn't as bad as the real thing. Taking that red-green-brown alliance thing - If you're concerned about Islamists, I understand. If you're concerned about fascists, I understand. Being MORE concerned about leftists because they have allegedly occasionally allied with the first two doesn't make sense to me. They're not the ones shooting up synagogues.

EDIT: More or less ninja'd.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:05 pm UTC

I and many others are concerned less about fascists because society as a whole and especially the university system is squashing them. They will disappear, they are temporary. The far left? No so much.

Do the left ally with Islamists? Not really, but they do shield Islamists from criticism, and more pertinently, it's the left and not the right that is in favor of increased immigration and refugees and so forth from Muslim lands. This wouldn't be a problem in itself, as Muslims aren't inherently more violent than Christians, but it doesn't seem as if there is any serious amount of vetting or any significant system in place to eliminate anti-semitism amongst the immigrants.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby bbluewi » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:21 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:I and many others are concerned less about fascists because society as a whole and especially the university system is squashing them. They will disappear, they are temporary. The far left? No so much.

Wait, what? What rock have you been living under for the last 4 years that leaves you under the impression that fascism is being squashed? There's a significant chance that a fascist (or at the very least, a wannabe fascist) gets elected to a second term as POTUS.

Do the left ally with Islamists? Not really, but they do shield Islam from criticism, and more pertinently, it's the left and not the right that is in favor of increased immigration and refugees and so forth from Muslim lands. This isn't a problem in itself, as Muslims aren't naturally more violent than Christians, but it doesn't seem as if there is any serious amount of vetting or any significant system in place to eliminate anti-semitism amongst the immigrants.

So in other words, you want to be the people you're trying to fight against. Fear can't prevent us from helping people, and I think Fox News wants their fish hook back. It's stuck in your throat.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:26 pm UTC

I want us to take in more refugees/immigrants, but I also want the ability to boot out anyone at the first sign of trouble. I'm not sure that this is such a radical position.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby paulisa » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:34 pm UTC

bbluewi wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:Do the left ally with Islamists? Not really, but they do shield Islam from criticism, and more pertinently, it's the left and not the right that is in favor of increased immigration and refugees and so forth from Muslim lands. This isn't a problem in itself, as Muslims aren't naturally more violent than Christians, but it doesn't seem as if there is any serious amount of vetting or any significant system in place to eliminate anti-semitism amongst the immigrants.

So in other words, you want to be the people you're trying to fight against. Fear can't prevent us from helping people, and I think Fox News wants their fish hook back. It's stuck in your throat.


Well, I'm not from the USA so the whole Trump thing is not my cup of tea, but I do want to say something to this point. You seem to be attacking CorruptUser very quickly and without nuance, and I feel that this kind of conversation is contributing to the division of western society. It seems to me that people on the left often jump down other peoples throats when any kind of worry about immigration is mentioned.

Secondly, in my area, the same parties which fought for womens rights, gay rights, non-traditional gender roles, laws against marital rape etc. now excuse a lot of things that are considered inappropriate here when it's done by immigrants. For example, polygamy is not allowed here, but left parties have gone to court for immigrants keeping their several wifes and getting benefits for them. It's this kind of one-sidedness that really turns me off, though from an ideological standpoint the natural allies of conservative immigrants are the current conservative parties (anti-gay, anti-women etc.)
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Sizik » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:07 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:I want us to take in more refugees/immigrants, but I also want the ability to boot out anyone at the first sign of trouble. I'm not sure that this is such a radical position.

What's wrong with treating them the same way we treat natural-born citizens who cause "trouble"?
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Dauric » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:20 pm UTC

Sizik wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:I want us to take in more refugees/immigrants, but I also want the ability to boot out anyone at the first sign of trouble. I'm not sure that this is such a radical position.

What's wrong with treating them the same way we treat natural-born citizens who cause "trouble"?


Pretty much this.

A focus on the 'immigrant terrorist ' creates a circumstance where you're treating them different from 'domestic terrorism', which is a problem with the current U.S. administration. In the U.S. we have significantly more domestic terrorism in the form of neo-nazi /white supremacy groups than we do 'immigrant terrorism' in any form of Islamic or other foreign actor coming here to commit acts of terror. By emphasizing a difference it gives an excuse to focus on the 'other' as a bigger problem just because they are 'other' and not deal with the overall issue of terrorists regardless of source.

The same could be said of the Trump administration's move on invalidating legal immigrant's status if they need to use the social safety net. It doesn't actually address the need for a 'safety net' across the board, it doesn't do anything to improve the safety net, nor does it do anything to help people get out of the net -and in to a better place-. The only thing it does is suggest that everything wrong with those programs is "those people" using it, effectively pitting people at the bottom of the social/economic system against each other.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:06 pm UTC

Sizik wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:I want us to take in more refugees/immigrants, but I also want the ability to boot out anyone at the first sign of trouble. I'm not sure that this is such a radical position.

What's wrong with treating them the same way we treat natural-born citizens who cause "trouble"?


Because citizens have a right to be in a country, while non-citizens don't?

Unless you happen to disagree with deporting convicted foreign felons, or whatever the term would be, you implicitly agree that it's ok to deport people. For what reasons are a matter of debate, and it's truly a dangerous slippery slope thing. It's funny that Dauric mentioned the whole latest controversy with immigration in the US, restricting green cards to only people with money. Could someone remind me what the rules were when in comes to immigration in the EU? If I recall correctly, immigration in the EU is also generally restricted to people who can prove they have enough money/connections to support themselves, and some of the countries having such ill-conceived restrictions that they deport women for being on maternity leave.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby gmalivuk » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:34 pm UTC

The US already had affidavits of support required from sponsoring citizens. I had to prove that I have and make enough money to support my wife should she lose her income.

The recent change is new, and frankly until you understand the difference you have no business talking about it as though you have anything worthwhile to say.

Edit: also why is it so inconceivable to you that some of us may in fact believe that deportation is never okay?
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:50 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:Edit: also why is it so inconceivable to you that some of us may in fact believe that deportation is never okay?


It's not inconceivable to me that some of you may in fact believe that deportation is never okay. What is inconceivable to me is how said people could expect to be taken seriously by everyone else.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby gmalivuk » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:59 pm UTC

Why are you incapable of taking seriously the idea that two people who commit the same crime should face the same possible consequences?

And if you can't take opposing positions seriously perhaps you shouldn't be involving yourself in immigration discussions at all.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:09 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:Why are you incapable of taking seriously the idea that two people who commit the same crime should face the same possible consequences?


Because one has the inherent right to be in the country while the other is a guest who doesn't? That you think that everyone is somehow entitled to immigrate/stay is where we are irreconcilable.

Edit to clarify:
I don't believe the legal system should factor citizenship into sentencing, e.g., no extra prison sentences for being a non-citizen. Only that after the sentence is finished, we have the right to deport non-citizen criminals.

gmalivuk wrote:And if you can't take opposing positions seriously perhaps you shouldn't be involving yourself in immigration discussions at all.


I don't take the Flat Earth position seriously either.
Last edited by CorruptUser on Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:20 pm UTC, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Zohar » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:10 pm UTC

Are you aware of how immigration laws came to be? They only started to be a thing in the US when Chinese immigrants started coming here en masse. They had no issues while it was white people. There was a time where a lot countries didn't have any policies restricting immigration. It wasn't inconceivable then, and people were taken seriously for agreeing with state policy.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:16 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:Are you aware of how immigration laws came to be? They only started to be a thing in the US when Chinese immigrants started coming here en masse. They had no issues while it was white people. There was a time where a lot countries didn't have any policies restricting immigration. It wasn't inconceivable then, and people were taken seriously for agreeing with state policy.


I'm quite sure the Alien and Sedition Acts, nasty as they were, predated Chinese immigration to the US by a few decades.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby gmalivuk » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:41 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:
gmalivuk wrote:Why are you incapable of taking seriously the idea that two people who commit the same crime should face the same possible consequences?


Because one has the inherent right to be in the country while the other is a guest who doesn't? That you think that everyone is somehow entitled to immigrate/stay is where we are irreconcilable.

I didn't ask why your view is irreconcilable with mine. I asked why you can't take it seriously.

CorruptUser wrote:
Zohar wrote:Are you aware of how immigration laws came to be? They only started to be a thing in the US when Chinese immigrants started coming here en masse. They had no issues while it was white people. There was a time where a lot countries didn't have any policies restricting immigration. It wasn't inconceivable then, and people were taken seriously for agreeing with state policy.


I'm quite sure the Alien and Sedition Acts, nasty as they were, predated Chinese immigration to the US by a few decades.

The point remains that, compared to now, immigration to the US was extremely unregulated for most of this country's history, and so your unwillingness to take that position seriously shows an inadequacy on your part rather than a fault of the idea itself.

CorruptUser wrote:I don't believe the legal system should factor citizenship into sentencing, e.g., no extra prison sentences for being a non-citizen. Only that after the sentence is finished, we have the right to deport non-citizen criminals.

Those beliefs are inconsistent. If we can take further official action against a non-citizen, that's effectively a difference in sentencing, even if it's not the same judge who makes both decisions and even if we don't call one of them a "sentence".
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Zohar » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:49 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:I'm quite sure the Alien and Sedition Acts, nasty as they were, predated Chinese immigration to the US by a few decades.

You mean the laws that met so much resistance they were allowed to expire three years after they were enacted instead of anyone trying to extend them? Sure, great counter example.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:09 pm UTC

I only used it to prove that we had immigration laws, horrific ones mind you, long before we had mass immigration from the far east. As it is one that I'm absolutely positive you won't dispute existed, it's a great counter example.


I don't agree with current immigration policy. Honestly, I think we should allow in more immigrants, am saddened we didn't snatch up a lot of the Venezuelans that had fled and really don't see a problem with most Hispanics, should definitely expand the student visa program more than any other (seriously, other countries pay you to make their kids Americanized?!), and really we need to streamline the whole naturalization process. But while I think it should be easier to be allowed in, I also think it should be easier to be forced out...

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby gmalivuk » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:20 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:
As it is one that I'm absolutely positive you won't dispute existed, it's a great counter example.

No, it's a shit counterexample, because those laws were generally agreed to be awful even at the time, and then it was most of another century before we started enacting any more restrictions on immigration. Zohar could have said "current immigration laws" and the actual core of his point would have remained true.

I...really don't see a problem with most Hispanics
Wow how fucking magnanimous of you
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:59 pm UTC

What you'll find if you ever visited the more rural states is that the locals are almost always
"well, we can't have any more Mexicans taking our jobs"
"but what about Carlos?"
"What, no not Carlos, Carlos is great, I mean those other Mexicans"
It's kind of hard to hate people you meet.


But anyway, some actual news this time. At least 3 police officers shot in Philly. Still ongoing.

Edit, 6 now shot.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby gd1 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:16 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:Yeah I'm an Israeli Jew and I pretty much abhor Israel's government. Saying that the left is a danger to Jews is... far out, I would say. It's still true that Jews suffer antisemitism in the US (and other places), and Israel is over-criticized by the UN (though I would argue Israel has more freedom to change its ways than other countries that are not as often criticized). And yeah there can be anti-Zionist rhetoric that borders on antisemitism, but I'm not sure any of those people (BDS supporters etc.) actually perpetrated violence or tried to oppress Jews, at least not compared to the amount of fear mongering originating from right wing extremists.


I only take issue with the Zionists who are murdering civilians. I do support BDS, but only to prevent further bloodshed. If what I'm hearing about rocket strikes indiscriminately against Israel is true, I condemn that as well. These days I don't even know what is honest reporting anymore.

As for the Spain to India and other stuff, I admit to not knowing the context, but I would urge CorruptUser to look very carefully at what is being said, who is saying it, and exactly who did what and why. Generalizations are a bad road imo.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby gmalivuk » Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:08 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:What you'll find if you ever visited the more rural states is that the locals are almost always
"well, we can't have any more Mexicans taking our jobs"
"but what about Carlos?"
"What, no not Carlos, Carlos is great, I mean those other Mexicans"
It's kind of hard to hate people you meet.

So you're lumping yourself in with stereotypical racist rural white people? I don't get the point of this anecdote.
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