Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ » Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:28 pm UTC

I frequently watch the news but generally I'm looking to see what the media wants me to know and taking that with a grain of salt.
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Fire Brns » Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:34 pm UTC

I haven't checked the news on this all day, it's no use and they are just going to show the same 30 second clips over and over again. No new information, just recaps for anyone who hasn't had access to the internet or tv for 2 days.

Fantastic Idea wrote:You're right. It is disrespectful. I'm glad you're not interested in having this argument here because I'm ok with you not talking anymore.

Regardless of whether you believe I am wrong that's still no excuse for the outright belligerency. I was fine with the argument but in PMs where it wouldn't be an eyesore wall of text to the thread.
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby EsotericWombat » Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:58 pm UTC

Fire Brns wrote:I haven't checked the news on this all day, it's no use and they are just going to show the same 30 second clips over and over again. No new information, just recaps for anyone who hasn't had access to the internet or tv for 2 days.

Fantastic Idea wrote:You're right. It is disrespectful. I'm glad you're not interested in having this argument here because I'm ok with you not talking anymore.

Regardless of whether you believe I am wrong that's still no excuse for the outright belligerency. I was fine with the argument but in PMs where it wouldn't be an eyesore wall of text to the thread.


You aren't in charge of this thread. Incidentally, the person who is in charge of this thread has spoken on the matter.

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Fantastic Idea wrote:You're right. It is disrespectful. I'm glad you're not interested in having this argument here


Second.

Feel free to stay in the thread, I mean, it's your city too, but this chain of conversation should probably stop.
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Wednesday » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:02 pm UTC

The rule isn't technically N&A's, I don't think, but "thou shall not talk back to a goddamned moderator in-thread" seems awfully appropriate.
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:09 pm UTC

Speaking of mods, what's with the chartreuse mod name colors?

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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Shepherdess » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:23 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Speaking of mods, what's with the chartreuse mod name colors?


I don't know, but it chartreuse means "mod" what does [Oops, I meant red] mean?
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby cphite » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:23 pm UTC

Iulus Cofield wrote:I have mixed feelings about all the ordinary people that helped. On the one hand, I really admire them for it and on the other hand, I want to call them idiots because my first instinct is that the chance of a secondary explosive meamt to hit first responders and good samaritans was non-trivial. I'm just really glad it turned out there weren't any secondary explosives.


I have nothing but respect for the first responders who go into these situations. Yes, they are putting their lives at risk. But that's what they do every day. A firefighter can die in a routine house fire; a policeman can die at a routine traffic stop. These folks make a choice to put their own safety at risk for the sake of others and that is admirable.

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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Felstaff » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:26 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Speaking of mods, what's with the chartreuse mod name colors?

Technically it's electric green, as chartreuse is more lime-coloured and less vibrant. I would paint my kitchen chartreuse. True story. It's the colour that non-mods and moderators emeritus go when they've been left in the fridge for months.

I'm hoping /b/ can use their power for good, like the time they brought down those corporate pigs.
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Thesh » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:26 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Speaking of mods, what's with the chartreuse mod name colors?

I think they just wanted the most annoying color possible.
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Belial » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:28 pm UTC

The actual moderators called dibs on all the non-horrible colors.

Now get back to topic!
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby ivnja » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:41 pm UTC

As camera phones and such become increasingly ubiquitous, I think there's fortunately less justification for needing government cameras everywhere. When something like this occurs, the necessary footage is pretty much already there, and the police can call on people to turn it in like they're doing now. This way's probably a lot cheaper for them than setting up their own cameras to cover everything. And higher-profile targets like crowded events will - by virtue of being crowded events - have more civilian cameras present anyway.

Of course, that might be an overly optimistic outlook on my part. *shrug*
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Shepherdess » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:44 pm UTC

I'm not saying I support cameras everywhere, but doesn't the UK have CCTV cameras everywhere? Is it controversial over there or is it accepted security measures?
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby SlyReaper » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:51 pm UTC

Shepherdess wrote:I'm not saying I support cameras everywhere, but doesn't the UK have CCTV cameras everywhere? Is it controversial over there or is it accepted security measures?

People moan and gripe about it, but ultimately don't kick up too much of a fuss about it.
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby broken_escalator » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:24 pm UTC

I thought that was the UK's reaction to pretty much anything not related to football?

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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby WibblyWobbly » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:27 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:
Shepherdess wrote:I'm not saying I support cameras everywhere, but doesn't the UK have CCTV cameras everywhere? Is it controversial over there or is it accepted security measures?

People moan and gripe about it, but ultimately don't kick up too much of a fuss about it.

I could easily be very wrong about this, but I get the impression that ubiquitous CCTV cameras in the UK might work better than in the US because the UK seems to have a bit more common sense when it comes to these matters. I mean, have a look at the Police Misbehavior thread, and one gets the impression that if NYC had a high density of CCTV cameras, the power they would afford would be abused in a matter of weeks.

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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:13 pm UTC

But at the same time, people could more easily prove that they were abused by the police.



Assuming that the cameras don't 'randomly' go blank of course.

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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Shepherdess » Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:16 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:But at the same time, people could more easily prove that they were abused by the police.



Assuming that the cameras don't 'randomly' go blank of course.


I could be wrong, but I think dashboard cameras are mandatory for police cars. Doesn't appear to have changed much.
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Tyndmyr » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:07 am UTC

Long as all the news have embraced speculation wholesale, I think I'm going to do the same. Of course, I'm willing to openly admit that's what I'm doing.

Here's my best guess as to the profile of the bomber.

US citizen. Male. Moderate age. Muslim convert, radicalized online. Socially isolated. Did at least one test blast, smaller scale, prior to the event. Not overtly political for either major US party in any reasonable sense, but sympathizes with anti-US propaganda.

Oh, and I'm gonna guess match heads for the explosive.

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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby KnightExemplar » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:52 am UTC

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/04/17/c ... nce-video/

However, CBS News correspondent Bob Orr reported Wednesday afternoon that authorities have identified at least one person they want to speak with, either as a witness or as a possible suspect, from surveillance video.

The man sought as a possible suspect is a white male, wearing white baseball cap on backwards, a gray hoodie and a black jacket, according to CBS News.


In comparison, the person of interest to 4chan is a male, baseball cap on forwards with sunglasses, a black jacket. I don't see any hoodie at all. (I posted about earlier: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=101444&start=200#p3330206)
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Belial » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:56 am UTC

In either case, though, they've narrowed it down to about 12% of everyone in boston.
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Iulus Cofield » Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:12 am UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/04/17/cnn-boston-marathon-bombings-suspect-identified-in-surveillance-video/

However, CBS News correspondent Bob Orr reported Wednesday afternoon that authorities have identified at least one person they want to speak with, either as a witness or as a possible suspect, from surveillance video.

The man sought as a possible suspect is a white male, wearing white baseball cap on backwards, a gray hoodie and a black jacket, according to CBS News.


In comparison, the person of interest to 4chan is a male, baseball cap on forwards with sunglasses, a black jacket. I don't see any hoodie at all. (I posted about earlier: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=101444&start=200#p3330206)



4chan has, uh, determined two or three dozen people as likely suspects. Some of them have been, I assume, ruled out since they didn't make it into the large set that has been posted on various websites. I don't know if you've been monitoring the threads, but in my opinion they are a total mess. I'm glad the effort is being crowdsourced and tips are being sent to the police, but there's no reason to have much confidence in anyone fingered so far.

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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby chem1190c » Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:16 am UTC

Iulus Cofield wrote:
KnightExemplar wrote:http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/04/17/cnn-boston-marathon-bombings-suspect-identified-in-surveillance-video/

However, CBS News correspondent Bob Orr reported Wednesday afternoon that authorities have identified at least one person they want to speak with, either as a witness or as a possible suspect, from surveillance video.

The man sought as a possible suspect is a white male, wearing white baseball cap on backwards, a gray hoodie and a black jacket, according to CBS News.


In comparison, the person of interest to 4chan is a male, baseball cap on forwards with sunglasses, a black jacket. I don't see any hoodie at all. (I posted about earlier: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=101444&start=200#p3330206)



4chan has, uh, determined two or three dozen people as likely suspects. Some of them have been, I assume, ruled out since they didn't make it into the large set that has been posted on various websites. I don't know if you've been monitoring the threads, but in my opinion they are a total mess. I'm glad the effort is being crowdsourced and tips are being sent to the police, but there's no reason to have much confidence in anyone fingered so far.


I'm ..um.. sort of struggling to see how a 4chan-backed effort to crowdsource law enforcement and counterterrorism efforts could possibly be a good thing :|

edit: They admittedly couldn't do a much worse job than the NY Post
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Tyndmyr » Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:30 am UTC

chem1190c wrote:I'm ..um.. sort of struggling to see how a 4chan-backed effort to crowdsource law enforcement and counterterrorism efforts could possibly be a good thing :|

edit: They admittedly couldn't do a much worse job than the NY Post


I can't really think of a more scathing indictment of the state of modern news...but you're not wrong.

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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby gmalivuk » Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:44 am UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:Muslim convert...sympathizes with anti-US propaganda.
Are you basing either of these speculations on anything at all?
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Aikanaro » Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:23 am UTC

gmalivuk wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:Muslim convert...sympathizes with anti-US propaganda.
Are you basing either of these speculations on anything at all?

Devil's advocate: Are you saying you think he's wrong?
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Tyndmyr » Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:46 am UTC

gmalivuk wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:Muslim convert...sympathizes with anti-US propaganda.
Are you basing either of these speculations on anything at all?


Actually, everything in there is based on something. Those, in particular, are based on the methodology of the bomb so far. It matches common practice in countries where the hostiles are those sorts. The choice of target, though, strikes me as implying domestic terrorism. Foreign methodology + domestic target = radicalized US type getting his info from them.

Now mind you, this is still playing the odds guessing, not hard proof or the like.

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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby gmalivuk » Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:02 am UTC

Aikanaro wrote:
gmalivuk wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:Muslim convert...sympathizes with anti-US propaganda.
Are you basing either of these speculations on anything at all?

Devil's advocate: Are you saying you think he's wrong?
Yes, because I can't think of reasons an anti-US Muslim convert would bomb the Boston Marathon on Patriot's Day / tax day. I can, on the other hand, think of lots of reasons why a teabagger-type extremist, thinking he's somehow doing the US a favor, would do just that.
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Steax » Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:16 am UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:the methodology of the bomb so far. It matches common practice in countries where the hostiles are those sorts.


Sticking explosives in pressure vessels and piling shrapnel in is more common practice in the wars in the middle east compared to elsewhere? Or is there some other sort of methodology you mean here, like the use of bags?

I get the impression that our overall judgement is biased because the only active wars we currently monitor are in what those would call muslim states. If we get news of "Bomb hidden in bag kills N people in X state", it's most likely going to be from there. I believe the bomb itself is a pretty standard setup that anyone who watches TV (and with the know-how) would know.

On the other hand, the lack of claiming responsibility, the choice of completely civilian targets, and this not being suicidal hints to me that it's not a crazy radical extremist who wanted a show of force. I obviously don't have concrete evidence and I don't mean to say this as a theory, but this incident doesn't seem the profile of most recent attacks.

I could, of course, be wrong.
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Adacore » Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:41 am UTC

The bomb methodology seems to be roughly the same as many cases I've heard of 'crazy maniac decides to blow a bomb up in an attempt to kill/maim a lot of people, because he's crazy'. Such maniacs could have just about any justification or ideology leading to setting a bomb, because they're crazy.

EDIT: Huh, I wrote 'he'. I guess gender bias, but I do expect it to be a man.
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby KnightExemplar » Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:56 am UTC

"If your experience and your expertise is Middle East terrorism, it has the hallmarks of al Qaeda or a Middle East group," former FBI Assistant Director Tom Fuentes said. "If your experience is domestic groups and bombings that have occurred here, it has the hallmarks of a domestic terrorist like Eric Rudolph in the 1996 Atlanta Summer Olympics bombings."


Basically, your bias will bias you. No real point speculating. Middle East experts think it was caused by middle eastern terrorists. Domestic terrorist experts it was caused by white supremacists or eco-terrorists. :? :?
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Alexius » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:52 am UTC

WibblyWobbly wrote:
SlyReaper wrote:
Shepherdess wrote:I'm not saying I support cameras everywhere, but doesn't the UK have CCTV cameras everywhere? Is it controversial over there or is it accepted security measures?

People moan and gripe about it, but ultimately don't kick up too much of a fuss about it.

I could easily be very wrong about this, but I get the impression that ubiquitous CCTV cameras in the UK might work better than in the US because the UK seems to have a bit more common sense when it comes to these matters. I mean, have a look at the Police Misbehavior thread, and one gets the impression that if NYC had a high density of CCTV cameras, the power they would afford would be abused in a matter of weeks.

It should be noted that according to the most recent study I can find more than 90% of the CCTV cameras in the UK are privately owned and on private premises (shops, warehouses and the like). A lot of them do look at public areas, though.

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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Tyndmyr » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:00 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:
Aikanaro wrote:
gmalivuk wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:Muslim convert...sympathizes with anti-US propaganda.
Are you basing either of these speculations on anything at all?

Devil's advocate: Are you saying you think he's wrong?
Yes, because I can't think of reasons an anti-US Muslim convert would bomb the Boston Marathon on Patriot's Day / tax day. I can, on the other hand, think of lots of reasons why a teabagger-type extremist, thinking he's somehow doing the US a favor, would do just that.


Someone blames the tea party pre-emptively basically every time there's an unfortunate event. However, it never ends up being one of 'em. Yes, it COULD be one this time, but the odds don't make that likely.

Tax day is a pretty easy target for people who hate taxes, but...boston marathon? That has crap-all to do with taxes. If it'd been an IRS building on tax day, I'd have concluded open and shut, tax hater sort of guy, but making the marathon about taxes is kind of a stretch, and requires the kind of logic that could apply to almost any target.

Steax wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:the methodology of the bomb so far. It matches common practice in countries where the hostiles are those sorts.


Sticking explosives in pressure vessels and piling shrapnel in is more common practice in the wars in the middle east compared to elsewhere? Or is there some other sort of methodology you mean here, like the use of bags?


Specifically, the use of crockpots is a middle east thing. Over here, it's historically much more likely for people to use pipe bombs, making their own pressure vessel. Again, not guaranteed to be a factor, just playin' the odds.

Steax wrote:On the other hand, the lack of claiming responsibility, the choice of completely civilian targets, and this not being suicidal hints to me that it's not a crazy radical extremist who wanted a show of force. I obviously don't have concrete evidence and I don't mean to say this as a theory, but this incident doesn't seem the profile of most recent attacks.


I think we can take crazy radical extremist for granted. Sane, moderate people don't blow random civilians up.

Adacore wrote:EDIT: Huh, I wrote 'he'. I guess gender bias, but I do expect it to be a man.


Statistics back you up on this. It's also why I guessed male, and didn't even really think about it. For whatever reason, bombers overwelmingly tend to be male. *shrug* Sometimes reality isn't very egalitarian.

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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Angua » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:02 pm UTC

Breivek was found to be sane (though not moderate).

There could be any number of motivations for this.
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:13 pm UTC

I'm going with 'sexually frustrated'. That's my default explanation of any attack or mass murder.

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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ » Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:00 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:
Steax wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:the methodology of the bomb so far. It matches common practice in countries where the hostiles are those sorts.


Sticking explosives in pressure vessels and piling shrapnel in is more common practice in the wars in the middle east compared to elsewhere? Or is there some other sort of methodology you mean here, like the use of bags?


Specifically, the use of crockpots is a middle east thing. Over here, it's historically much more likely for people to use pipe bombs, making their own pressure vessel. Again, not guaranteed to be a factor, just playin' the odds.


Pressure cooker. Not crock pot. I still don't buy this logic that assumes that the bomb as it is tells us very much about the person who planted it. I don't buy calling this a Middle-East Thing.
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Thesh » Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:57 pm UTC

Islamic terrorist groups tend to claim responsibility for their attacks, which hasn't happened, as far as I know. Plus, this was gunpowder, which is fairly low tech; I would expect that if the bomber had ties to the middle east that some kind of homemade high explosive would be used.

I'm guessing this is more of a lone wolf attack. He may be Muslim, but he could just as easily be an anti-government type. The fact that it took place on Patriots' Day, which is a holiday commemorating the first battles of the revolutionary war, gives me more reason to believe that it was domestic, rather than foreign.
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby gmalivuk » Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:24 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:Someone blames the tea party pre-emptively basically every time there's an unfortunate event. However, it never ends up being one of 'em. Yes, it COULD be one this time, but the odds don't make that likely.
"Someone" blames pretty much anyone pre-emptively every time there's an unfortunate event. But shockingly enough, past success or failure of armchair speculations has nothing to do with the actual likelihood that any particular thing happened, so previous wrong guesses have no bearing on "the odds" here.

Tax day is a pretty easy target for people who hate taxes, but...boston marathon? That has crap-all to do with taxes. If it'd been an IRS building on tax day, I'd have concluded open and shut, tax hater sort of guy, but making the marathon about taxes is kind of a stretch, and requires the kind of logic that could apply to almost any target.
Why is it making the marathon about taxes? Couldn't it be making the marathon about being sure to affect a lot of people and have the explosions on live TV? Boston itself seems a pretty natural symbolic tax-related target, being where the original Tea Party happened and all, as well as being where Paul Revere set off from on the original Patriots' Day to warn of the coming British. And then if a terrorist has decided on hitting Boston on Patriots' Day, the finish line of the Boston Marathon is the most public, highly visible target imaginable.

(And yeah, I'm definitely not contesting anyone's supposition that it was a man, since pretty much all similar attacks in the past have been done by men.)
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby omgryebread » Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:33 pm UTC

Yeah, blaming any one group or movement right now based on the date or type of bomb is dumb. But so is trying to rule out any one group based on that. (If you insist on doing so, remember that the majority of terrorist attacks in the US are not by Islamists).

And this type of bomb is so ridiculously easy to make that trying to get information about the bombmaker from what we know is like trying to determine the provenance of a pot that I made in a class with my mother one time.
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Nylonathatep » Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:40 pm UTC

Investigation breakthrough: (Sounds legit too)

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/04/18 ... bing-site/

The painstaking work to identify a bombing suspect from reams of Boston Marathon footage yielded a possible breakthrough as investigators focused on a man seen dropping off a bag, and then walking away from the site of the second of two deadly explosions.

The discovery of the image — found on surveillance footage from a department store near the finish line — was detailed by a city politician two days after the attack that left three people dead, wounded more than 170, and cast a dark shadow over one of this city’s most joyous traditions. The footage hasn’t been made public.

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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby cphite » Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:11 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:
gmalivuk wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:Muslim convert...sympathizes with anti-US propaganda.
Are you basing either of these speculations on anything at all?


Actually, everything in there is based on something. Those, in particular, are based on the methodology of the bomb so far. It matches common practice in countries where the hostiles are those sorts. The choice of target, though, strikes me as implying domestic terrorism. Foreign methodology + domestic target = radicalized US type getting his info from them.

Now mind you, this is still playing the odds guessing, not hard proof or the like.


The design of bomb is actually relatively common worldwide in places where these types of attacks occur; it's been more commonly used in the Middle East, but then so have homemade bombs in general.

Most of the Islamist terrorist groups that we know about are pretty consistent about claiming responsibility; and the date of the attack is certainly suggestive of domestic rather than foreign actors.

Right now it's all speculation; so far the best evidence we have (that we, the public, know about) is that someone was seen on camera dropping something near the second blast site. But we don't know for sure what that "something" was, or if it was actually involved.

Whoever it was I hope each of them dies screaming in the worst way they can imagine.


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