7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Seen something interesting in the news or on the intertubes? Discuss it here.

Moderators: Zamfir, Hawknc, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
Angua
Don't call her Delphine.
Posts: 5926
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:42 pm UTC
Location: UK/[St. Kitts and] Nevis Occasionally, I migrate to the US for a bit

7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby Angua » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:01 am UTC

So, they do give their sources, but not much else, so there's probably some statistical weirdness - the gas guzzler one is definitely unfair, I feel.

However, the maternity leave and the vacation ones are the ones that really surprise me!

edit - this is what I get for posting in the morning.

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/americas/united-states/130607/7-graphs-america-overrated-nsa-prism-privacy?utm_source=feedly
Last edited by Angua on Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:28 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
Crabtree's bludgeon: “no set of mutually inconsistent observations can exist for which some human intellect cannot conceive a coherent explanation, however complicated”
GNU Terry Pratchett

morriswalters
Posts: 7073
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:21 am UTC

Re: 7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby morriswalters » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:44 am UTC

I think I read the article, but perhaps a link? Or did I miss it?

Chen
Posts: 5565
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:53 pm UTC
Location: Montreal

Re: 7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby Chen » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:46 am UTC

Angua wrote:So, they do give their sources, but not much else, so there's probably some statistical weirdness - the gas guzzler one is definitely unfair, I feel.

However, the maternity leave and the vacation ones are the ones that really surprise me!


Uh where are these graphs?

Tirian
Posts: 1891
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:03 pm UTC

Re: 7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby Tirian » Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:28 pm UTC

http://cdn.spundge.com/stories/4161/embedded/, I would suppose.

I don't really see this as evidence that the United States is overrated. Did anyone rate us as a socialist nation that mandated vacation time, maternity leave, or affordable health care?

Chen
Posts: 5565
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:53 pm UTC
Location: Montreal

Re: 7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby Chen » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:07 pm UTC

Tirian wrote:http://cdn.spundge.com/stories/4161/embedded/, I would suppose.

I don't really see this as evidence that the United States is overrated. Did anyone rate us as a socialist nation that mandated vacation time, maternity leave, or affordable health care?


Thanks for the link. Overrated in the colloquial terms I suspect is what they meant. Most of the things on that list are things people, in general, would find nice and hence with the US lacking them compared to other developed countries people might conclude it is "overrated". All the things they posted are certainly negatives, but they also cherry picked those things. Looking at something that shows overall standards of living like HDI has the US at #3, for example.

User avatar
sardia
Posts: 6782
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:39 am UTC

Re: 7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby sardia » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:15 pm UTC

Chen wrote:
Tirian wrote:http://cdn.spundge.com/stories/4161/embedded/, I would suppose.

I don't really see this as evidence that the United States is overrated. Did anyone rate us as a socialist nation that mandated vacation time, maternity leave, or affordable health care?


Thanks for the link. Overrated in the colloquial terms I suspect is what they meant. Most of the things on that list are things people, in general, would find nice and hence with the US lacking them compared to other developed countries people might conclude it is "overrated". All the things they posted are certainly negatives, but they also cherry picked those things. Looking at something that shows overall standards of living like HDI has the US at #3, for example.

It depends on what you're measuring. If you're measuring the average(Billionaires + poor people)/2 the average looks damn nice. If you're looking at the gulf between poor and rich, then it looks shitty. Then again, there's an argument to be made that you can build a succesful economy on the backs of poor people, aka "pro business" policies. Texas and China have shown us that.

Chen
Posts: 5565
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:53 pm UTC
Location: Montreal

Re: 7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby Chen » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:27 pm UTC

That is true, though if you look at the US its 10th on the GNI (PPP) list (part of what goes into HDI), yet its still comes in above most of those countries in the end on HDI meaning its life expectancy and education components to the HDI must be a fair bit higher than a lot of those other countries, which is still a good indicator of it being a pretty decent place to live.

Derek
Posts: 2180
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:15 am UTC

Re: 7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby Derek » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:27 pm UTC

Chen wrote:
Tirian wrote:http://cdn.spundge.com/stories/4161/embedded/, I would suppose.

I don't really see this as evidence that the United States is overrated. Did anyone rate us as a socialist nation that mandated vacation time, maternity leave, or affordable health care?


Thanks for the link. Overrated in the colloquial terms I suspect is what they meant. Most of the things on that list are things people, in general, would find nice and hence with the US lacking them compared to other developed countries people might conclude it is "overrated". All the things they posted are certainly negatives, but they also cherry picked those things. Looking at something that shows overall standards of living like HDI has the US at #3, for example.

It's also showing legal minimums for things like maternity leave and vacation time. There is no minimum requirements for these, but most companies will offer some anyways. For example, I get 15 days vacation (increasing the longer I work here) and unlimited sick days.

User avatar
Angua
Don't call her Delphine.
Posts: 5926
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:42 pm UTC
Location: UK/[St. Kitts and] Nevis Occasionally, I migrate to the US for a bit

Re: 7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby Angua » Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:29 pm UTC

Crabtree's bludgeon: “no set of mutually inconsistent observations can exist for which some human intellect cannot conceive a coherent explanation, however complicated”
GNU Terry Pratchett

User avatar
Wnderer
Posts: 640
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:10 pm UTC

Re: 7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby Wnderer » Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:57 pm UTC

They should post this article at the border.

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 10485
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: 7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:06 pm UTC

Going to have to call bullshit on the labor laws. Sure, it may not exist on the FEDERAL level, but the states all have their own laws. It's like claiming that because the EU doesn't have rule X, all of the EU is overrated. When people compare the US to elsewhere, it's always the entire US compared to say, Sweden. Want to be fair? Compare Connecticutt to Sweden.

I can endorse only half of the states anyway. Stay away from the Deep South, New Jersey and West Virginia and you should be fine.

User avatar
dudiobugtron
Posts: 1098
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:14 am UTC
Location: The Outlier

Re: 7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby dudiobugtron » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:10 pm UTC

Tirian wrote:I don't really see this as evidence that the United States is overrated. Did anyone rate us as a socialist nation that mandated vacation time, maternity leave, or affordable health care?

Americans rate the US as being a good place to live. Other people (you know, those socialist nations with their maternity leave and vacation time, like the UK, Canada, Germany, Japan, Australia, ...), probably not so much.
(Subject to CorruptUser's proviso, however - some of the US states are probably good places to live, even when viewed by non-Americans.)
Image

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 10485
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: 7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:20 pm UTC

List of states by:

Life expectancy
Infant mortality
Median Income (this one is in excel format, sorry)
High school graduation rate

Surprisingly, Texas is the 4th best when it comes to high school.

Use these to compare to rather than just the average of all of the US.

Tirian
Posts: 1891
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:03 pm UTC

Re: 7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby Tirian » Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:57 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Surprisingly, Texas is the 4th best when it comes to high school.


It's not surprising to anyone who knows how Texas cheats to inflate their education performance.

User avatar
Diadem
Posts: 5654
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:03 am UTC
Location: The Netherlands

Re: 7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby Diadem » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:58 pm UTC

Tirian wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:Surprisingly, Texas is the 4th best when it comes to high school.


It's not surprising to anyone who knows how Texas cheats to inflate their education performance.

from that article:
(...) "A reasonable guess is that almost half of Houston's students do not graduate from high school." Greene also points out that Houston's dropout problem is no worse than that of school systems in many other large American cities: "I think they are doing about as well as most urban school districts, which is to say not very well … I don't think they've been doing super well."

Wait, what? Half the students do not finish high school in houston, and that is considered normal?

What the fuck? How is that even remotely possible? Am I missing something here?
It's one of those irregular verbs, isn't it? I have an independent mind, you are an eccentric, he is round the twist
- Bernard Woolley in Yes, Prime Minister

User avatar
Diadem
Posts: 5654
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:03 am UTC
Location: The Netherlands

Re: 7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby Diadem » Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:14 am UTC

Diadem wrote:Wait, what? Half the students do not finish high school in houston, and that is considered normal?

What the fuck? How is that even remotely possible? Am I missing something here?

Turns out what I was missing is my own privilege. High school dropout rates in the US seem to be in the neighbourhood of 75%, and plenty of western nations are around there as well, including my own. I'm blown away. I always thought dropping out of high school was a very rare thing. A full quarter of all kids drop out? That's fucking shocking.
It's one of those irregular verbs, isn't it? I have an independent mind, you are an eccentric, he is round the twist
- Bernard Woolley in Yes, Prime Minister

User avatar
Brace
Posts: 1169
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:40 am UTC
Location: Denver, Co
Contact:

Re: 7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby Brace » Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:32 am UTC

Moving can make it impossible to keep up with schoolwork, people drop out due to harassment and abuse, and expulsions factor into the issue as well. High school is a terrible indicator of performance or intelligence. It's kind of perverse that the cost and quality of college are so deeply tied to high school performance.
"The future is the only kind of property that the masters willingly concede to the slaves" - Albert Camus

User avatar
Xeio
Friends, Faidites, Countrymen
Posts: 5101
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:12 am UTC
Location: C:\Users\Xeio\
Contact:

Re: 7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby Xeio » Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:44 am UTC

Stats I found put it closer at 7-8% in 2010? Are you talking about the graduation rate maybe which appears lower (I didn't see national averages for that)?

Not that I'm sure what the difference is between dropout and graduation rate and why the two don't very closely sum to 100%.

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 10485
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: 7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:53 am UTC

Does graduation include people with GED's? Or maybe people that dropped out but re-enrolled? If graduation + dropout is greater than 100%, my guess would be the dropouts that get GED's count as graduates as well.

User avatar
dudiobugtron
Posts: 1098
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:14 am UTC
Location: The Outlier

Re: 7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby dudiobugtron » Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:04 am UTC

I imagine that if they sum to less than 100%, it's because people who fail and resit a year aren't counted as 'drop outs'.

Diadem wrote:
Diadem wrote:Wait, what? Half the students do not finish high school in houston, and that is considered normal?

What the fuck? How is that even remotely possible? Am I missing something here?

Turns out what I was missing is my own privilege. High school dropout rates in the US seem to be in the neighbourhood of 75%, and plenty of western nations are around there as well, including my own. I'm blown away. I always thought dropping out of high school was a very rare thing. A full quarter of all kids drop out? That's fucking shocking.


The Western Secondary Education system is monstrously unfit to perform the role that is intended for it. Massive sections of society get alienated and undervalued (and thus under-utilised) by society at large, as a result. Why doesn't it get changed? Because most of the people responsible for it are the ones who the system over-values. (Some people of course get correctly valued, but that's likely due to the law of averages, rather than any success on the part of our current secondary education system.)
Image

User avatar
Belial
A terrible sound heard from a distance
Posts: 30450
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:04 am UTC
Contact:

Re: 7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby Belial » Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:58 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Going to have to call bullshit on the labor laws. Sure, it may not exist on the FEDERAL level, but the states all have their own laws. It's like claiming that because the EU doesn't have rule X, all of the EU is overrated. When people compare the US to elsewhere, it's always the entire US compared to say, Sweden. Want to be fair? Compare Connecticutt to Sweden.

I can endorse only half of the states anyway. Stay away from the Deep South, New Jersey and West Virginia and you should be fine.


When 1 in 4 workers receives no paid leave whatsoever, we can assume that more than 25% of states have no such laws. Which still puts us in a pretty shitty position.
addams wrote:A drunk neighbor is better than a sober Belial.


They/them

jseah
Posts: 544
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:18 pm UTC

Re: 7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby jseah » Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:05 am UTC

Diadem wrote:
Diadem wrote:Wait, what? Half the students do not finish high school in houston, and that is considered normal?

What the fuck? How is that even remotely possible? Am I missing something here?

Turns out what I was missing is my own privilege. High school dropout rates in the US seem to be in the neighbourhood of 75%, and plenty of western nations are around there as well, including my own. I'm blown away. I always thought dropping out of high school was a very rare thing. A full quarter of all kids drop out? That's fucking shocking.

Wait what?
wikipedia wrote:The status high school dropout rate in 2009 was 8.1%.[

Erm, what do you mean by 75% dropout rate? Do you mean 75% graduation rate?

Whichever way, I still think there is something majorly wrong if you have a drop out rate higher than 2%. Even one in fifty (2%) seems pretty darn high to me.
Stories:
Time is Like a River - consistent time travel to the hilt
A Hero's War
Tensei Simulator build 18 - A python RPG

User avatar
addams
Posts: 10186
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:44 am UTC
Location: Oregon Coast: 97444

Re: 7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby addams » Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:26 am UTC

Human beings are like birds.
We hide our frailties.

Republicans have argued that the president fails to understand that the country was divinely inspired, based on the Declaration of Independence's assertion that citizens were “endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights.”

The above was taken from one of the Links on the OP article.
They do not understand the relationship of The Poetry to Reality.

What some people seem to be saying is: "God gave men certain rights and if God wants a man to have those Rights, then God will make sure he has them."

The way it was taught to me is: "Under God we are all Brothers. Our hands do the work of God; When we do it Right."

When we do it Right it makes God look good. When we do it Wrong it makes us look bad.

The American People are so very selfish. Yes. With one another and with the other peoples of The World.
How can these people want to share something that does not work for their own?

In Kansas a young woman I knew was employed at a place that allowed her to accept tips.
She was not paid any minimum wage. She was not able to live on what she was making.

It was a horrible situation for her. Vacation? She was frightened of being Homeless.
Her fears were well founded. There are many Homeless and very Poor.

The American Dream has become a Nightmare for many.
I spoke to a man, yesterday. He is very poor.

A man in a Big Truck pulled up next to him on The Road and Yelled, "Get a Job!''
The man said he was surprised. He answered, "Are you hiring?"

Yes. The Government has a place in people's lives.
Not in your e-mails. To 'be there' in times of difficulty.

It is nice for those that have good solid families to fall back on.
That system works for many.

When the family system fails or is nonexistent the state has a responsibility.
To be Moral. Remember All that God Talk?
Well; If it gets people to do the Right thing, then Fine!

It does irritate me. People often pull out the God Card to make doing Nothing or less The Will Of God.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

User avatar
rieschen
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:35 am UTC

Re: 7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby rieschen » Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:20 am UTC

A lot of worker protection (such as a minimum of 20 days' paid leave, anually) is actually legally binding in the EU. There are also some other directives (such as minimum time between work sessions, maximum workload per week etc.) that the EU sets bounds on. Of course, in practice they get broken because people are afraid to report their place of employment and inspections are spotty at best except on the bigger firms.

Regarding the dropout rate - what's a "dropout"? In Germany, some forms of school purposefully terminate after 9/10 years instead of the usual 12/13 to allow kids who aren't strong academically* to transition into apprenticeships.

Anyhow, cherrypicked numbers are rarely very useful in actually describing what it's like to live in a country. Especially those cherrypicked not at random but to make a point.

* That's not how it works in practice thanks to all kinds of ugly humanness, but oh well.

Derek
Posts: 2180
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:15 am UTC

Re: 7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby Derek » Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:38 am UTC

rieschen wrote:In Germany, some forms of school purposefully terminate after 9/10 years instead of the usual 12/13 to allow kids who aren't strong academically* to transition into apprenticeships.

As it turns out, that's about the age that you can legally dropout of high school in the US (16 years old in most/all states). Although there is no apprenticeship waiting afterwards.

User avatar
PolakoVoador
Posts: 1028
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:11 pm UTC
Location: Brazil

Re: 7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby PolakoVoador » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:33 am UTC

What does it mean to "legally dropout"?

User avatar
TheAmazingRando
Posts: 2308
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:58 am UTC
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: 7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby TheAmazingRando » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:49 am UTC

It's when you stop attending secondary school past the age where it's legally mandatory (16 to 18, depending on the state) but before you've actually completed it.

User avatar
Adacore
Posts: 2755
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:35 pm UTC
Location: 한국 창원

Re: 7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby Adacore » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:50 am UTC

Derek wrote:
rieschen wrote:In Germany, some forms of school purposefully terminate after 9/10 years instead of the usual 12/13 to allow kids who aren't strong academically* to transition into apprenticeships.

As it turns out, that's about the age that you can legally dropout of high school in the US (16 years old in most/all states). Although there is no apprenticeship waiting afterwards.

TheAmazingRando wrote:It's when you stop attending secondary school past the age where it's legally mandatory (16 to 18, depending on the state) but before you've actually completed it.

I think this highlights an important technicality. In the UK system, you finish school at 16 (or 18 if you stay on for A-levels). You don't need to pass any tests to be considered to be finished with schooling (you have to take the tests, but it's fine if you then leave having failed all of them), you just have to be a certain age. In the US, however, I believe such a situation would lead to you failing to 'graduate', and you'd have to either retake the test, or 'drop out'. In the UK, kids leaving having failed all the tests wouldn't be counted as 'dropping out of school', although would still be covered by other statistics, such as failing to meet some minimum level of exam grades.

I might be completely wrong about how the US system works, though. I don't know it remotely well.

User avatar
TheAmazingRando
Posts: 2308
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:58 am UTC
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: 7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby TheAmazingRando » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:58 am UTC

The US doesn't have any mandatory standardized tests other than those that are used to evaluate schools. In practice, we have the SAT and the ACT which are useful for college admissions, but graduation is only contingent on passing four years' worth of classes.

EDIT: This is a little simplistic. There is a standardized test (the GED) that you can take in lieu of of finishing high school, but it's an either/or sort of thing.

User avatar
Adacore
Posts: 2755
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:35 pm UTC
Location: 한국 창원

Re: 7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby Adacore » Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:38 am UTC

TheAmazingRando wrote:The US doesn't have any mandatory standardized tests other than those that are used to evaluate schools. In practice, we have the SAT and the ACT which are useful for college admissions, but graduation is only contingent on passing four years' worth of classes.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. In the UK, you don't have to 'pass' a class, you just have to attend it.

leady
Posts: 1592
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:28 pm UTC

Re: 7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby leady » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:13 am UTC

Belial wrote:When 1 in 4 workers receives no paid leave whatsoever, we can assume that more than 25% of states have no such laws. Which still puts us in a pretty shitty position.


Or you could look at it as you get given the financial value of the holiday and can potentially choose whether to take them - which is arguably preferable

mandated benefits over time just replace the cash value in the job market

Mutex
Posts: 1458
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:32 pm UTC

Re: 7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby Mutex » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:42 am UTC

Adacore wrote:
TheAmazingRando wrote:The US doesn't have any mandatory standardized tests other than those that are used to evaluate schools. In practice, we have the SAT and the ACT which are useful for college admissions, but graduation is only contingent on passing four years' worth of classes.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. In the UK, you don't have to 'pass' a class, you just have to attend it.

If that.

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 10485
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: 7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:22 pm UTC

There are some people who got a BS in Bureaucracy. That is, they figured out how to work the system to pass with the least effort. For example, if a professor retires and you appeal the grade, automatic A. Some classes recycle the tests year over year*, the 'better' frats would have the old tests with answers in storage.

While not educated in the traditional sense, I have a suspicion that these people actually do well in the real world...


*The joke being that economics has the same test every year but the answers keep changing.

User avatar
Zamfir
I built a novelty castle, the irony was lost on some.
Posts: 7588
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:43 pm UTC
Location: Nederland

Re: 7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby Zamfir » Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:44 pm UTC



Or you could look at it as you get given the financial value of the holiday and can potentially choose whether to take them - which is arguably preferable

If I don't use my allotted holidays, I can sell them back to the company for the equivalent part of my salary. That's typical for most workplaces here. The opposite is usually far harder: getting more holidays than standard in return for less pay. Even when it's possible, it typically comes with an informal but very clear slacker mark, putting you last in line for career advancement and first for downsizings.

Perhaps this works different in the US? Is it easy in American workplaces to give up pay for more holidays?

Роберт
Posts: 4285
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 1:56 am UTC

Re: 7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby Роберт » Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:48 pm UTC

Zamfir wrote:Perhaps this works different in the US? Is it easy in American workplaces to give up pay for more holidays?

Not in my experience.
The Great Hippo wrote:[T]he way we treat suspected terrorists genuinely terrifies me.

User avatar
eran_rathan
Mostly Wrong
Posts: 1840
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:36 pm UTC
Location: in your ceiling, judging you

Re: 7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby eran_rathan » Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:52 pm UTC

Zamfir wrote:If I don't use my allotted holidays, I can sell them back to the company for the equivalent part of my salary. That's typical for most workplaces here. The opposite is usually far harder: getting more holidays than standard in return for less pay. Even when it's possible, it typically comes with an informal but very clear slacker mark, putting you last in line for career advancement and first for downsizings.

Perhaps this works different in the US? Is it easy in American workplaces to give up pay for more holidays?


Only for certain large employers (universities, for one). Other than that, no.
"Does this smell like chloroform to you?"
"Google tells me you are not unique. You are, however, wrong."
nɒʜƚɒɿ_nɒɿɘ

leady
Posts: 1592
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:28 pm UTC

Re: 7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby leady » Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:17 pm UTC

I didn't think you could do that in the EU anymore, pretty sure its illegal in the UK to go under a statutory minimum of 4 weeks

User avatar
Zamfir
I built a novelty castle, the irony was lost on some.
Posts: 7588
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:43 pm UTC
Location: Nederland

Re: 7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby Zamfir » Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:53 pm UTC

Yeah, there's a minimum involved, though it's flexible in practice. In particular, you can often save up holidays until you change jobs. In which case they show up as income for months you 'work' after you have already quit. Or you can play around with overtime, or the simple expedient of getting a higher salary with the informal agreement that won't take all your holidays. This is an example of the asymmetry.

My point is more that, at least over here, it is absolutely not true that a shorter minimum holiday period translates to a free choice about money or off-time. It's asymmetric: the pressure is nearly always in the direction of less holidays and more pay, the other direction is fighting against the stream. The main exception are companies with bad year, who prefer extensive holidays if that prevents layoffs.

That asymmetry is the core of legal requirements in holidays: it's a legal counter pressure against the pressures of the working place. So I guess, if companies in the US do not exhibit that same pressure, then it's better for the US to keep minimum holidays short and let employee take their own extended holidays. I can't judge that.

Heisenberg
Posts: 3789
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 8:48 pm UTC
Location: Uncertain

Re: 7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby Heisenberg » Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:03 pm UTC

TheAmazingRando wrote:The US doesn't have any mandatory standardized tests other than those that are used to evaluate schools. In practice, we have the SAT and the ACT which are useful for college admissions, but graduation is only contingent on passing four years' worth of classes.

EDIT: This is a little simplistic. There is a standardized test (the GED) that you can take in lieu of of finishing high school, but it's an either/or sort of thing.

Roughly half of the US has a state high-school graduation test. In my experience you must complete the mandatory schooling period and pass the test to graduate. But since the test numbers are tied to funding/evaluation, the school will prepare you for the test in your 2nd year, and if you don't pass they'll just keep cramming data into you and let you try again multiple times until you pass.

User avatar
sardia
Posts: 6782
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:39 am UTC

Re: 7 graphs that prove America is overrated.

Postby sardia » Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:24 pm UTC

Anybody notice it specifying Urban graduation rates instead of overall graduation rates? I know inner cities have terrible rates compared to the wealthier suburbs.


Return to “News & Articles”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests