The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

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Paul in Saudi
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The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby Paul in Saudi » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:29 pm UTC

Did you see this in today's New York Times? http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/19/world/europe/romanians-tale-has-art-world-fearing-worst.html?ref=todayspaper


In October last year a coupe of guys broke into the Kunsthal Gallery in Rotterdam. They bypassed the security system and were out of there in less than two minutes. They took with them several works even I am aware of.

Monet's Waterloo Bridge, London and Charing Cross Bridge, London,
Picasso's Tete d'Arlequin,
Gauguin's Femme devant une fenêtre ouverte,
Matisse's La Liseuse en Blanc et Jaune,
De Haan's Autoportrait,
Lucian Freud's Woman with Eyes Closed
and a few others.

It seems it was a gang of Romanians. The ringleader took the paintings to a remote mountain village in that country. He left them in the safe hands of his aging mother.

The police closed in on the gang, and arrested them after a short investigation.

Mom then put the paintings into a stove and burned them to ashes to destroy the evidence against her son.

This is beyond Recreational Outrage. It is simply horrid news.

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Re: The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby Bassoon » Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:30 pm UTC

This is a strangely beautiful tale. A shame for the art world, but at least all their other works go up in price now, I suppose.

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Re: The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby addams » Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:35 am UTC

A mother's love for her son is a tender thing.
We have photos of all of the art.

The art world will rebound.
The poor mom.

Her son got to be a big Somebody.
He was always Somebody, to her.
The poor mom.

Of course; He may have gotten his brains from his mom.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
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Re: The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby yurell » Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:50 am UTC

If there aren't any high-res scans of those paintings, I'm going to be incredibly annoyed at the galleries that have hosted them.
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Re: The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby addams » Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:03 am UTC

yurell wrote:If there aren't any high-res scans of those paintings, I'm going to be incredibly annoyed at the galleries that have hosted them.



With a little googling you could create a gallery of links here.
We could all take a look at what we are missing.

It is a strange human phenomena.
We, sometimes, don't care until the treasure is gone.
Then we, sometimes, care too much.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
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Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby Paul in Saudi » Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:16 pm UTC

All in all, it reminds me of the ending of the original Ocean's Eleven.

It seems that this is the trick ending for a novel.

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Re: The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby elasto » Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:21 am UTC

There are some world class forgers out there, capable of works that fool even the experts. Hopefully there are the high res scans available for someone to be commissioned to perfectly recreate the originals.

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Re: The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:19 pm UTC

I always wondered, if the forgers are that talented, why don't they have a career creating their own work?

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Re: The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby Enokh » Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:56 pm UTC

Maybe they just lack the creativity for making famous artwork. Or maybe they've made some great stuff but no one likes it because they haven't died yet.

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Re: The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby Heisenberg » Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:01 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:I always wondered, if the forgers are that talented, why don't they have a career creating their own work?

Same reason a Xerox machine hasn't written a bestseller?

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Re: The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:10 pm UTC

In art, using the bestseller example, you could always copy the style and overall plot and not too many will call you out on it. Change a few characters, hair colors, etc. Go the blaxploitation route and just put black people in otherwise identical scenes.

Or just paint some pornography. No seriously, many of the most famous pieces were for bachelors' "private study". That's right, half of the stuff in a museum was used by your great great grandparents to masturbate to.

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Re: The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby Heisenberg » Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:41 pm UTC

But there are losses when you do that. Finding Nemo made about a billion dollars at the box office. Dreamworks copied that film and added some racism and made about a third as much money with Shark Tale. If that fraction held true across the arts, then a Picasso copy would be valuable indeed. However, it tends to vary, with obvious copiers making more money in the music industry and less money in the art world.

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Re: The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:13 pm UTC

Looked it up online. Shark Tale made like 370m revenue on a 75m budget. Sure, not as good as Pixar's but still a fortune to be made in shameless ripoffs. If it really was a ripoff. I know the studios love to do the exact same movies as each other (remember when we had two movies about mall cops? Dafuq?). I never saw it so I can't confirm, I just thought it looked stupid. Much better than selling bootlegs of Nemo.

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Re: The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby induction » Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:49 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:I always wondered, if the forgers are that talented, why don't they have a career creating their own work?


The art market is far from rational, and talent is only a very small piece of the puzzle. A brilliant work by a talented nobody may sell for very little or not at all. Meanwhile a painting by a well-known artist can be worth millions, even if the artist in question thought it was so awful that he threw it in the garbage. Often, art collectors buy names, not art. Forgery is a shortcut to a sure sale.

Van Gogh sold one painting during his lifetime. Elmyr de Hory sold over a thousand.

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Re: The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby Arrian » Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:16 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:I always wondered, if the forgers are that talented, why don't they have a career creating their own work?


My guess is that demand and price for artwork is driven by factors beyond simple quality: Many people who spend tremendous amounts of money on art do so because it increases their status. They may pick specific pieces that fit with their tastes, but the creators need to be known to the group the purchaser wants to impress in order to make it truly valuable.

Thus, an unknown person in Bolivia who has the technical skill to reproduce a Rembrandt wouldn't be able to make nearly as much money selling art under his own name as he would selling "Rembrandts." True, he might get "discovered" eventually, but fame is fickle and he might never make that first big sale. How many of the masters died in poverty, only to have their art selling for tremendous amounts of money years later?

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Re: The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby elasto » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:03 pm UTC

induction wrote:Van Gogh sold one painting during his lifetime. Elmyr de Hory sold over a thousand.


Very nice article. Lol at the punchline:

Occasionally, throughout his career, de Hory attempted to stop making forgeries and create original artwork, but could never find a market for his work, always returning to the lucrative clandestine activity.

...

De Hory appeared in several television interviews, and was featured with Irving in Orson Welles' free-form documentary, F for Fake (1974). In Welles' film, de Hory questioned what it was that made his forgeries inferior to the actual paintings created by the artists he imitated, particularly since they had fooled so many experts, and were always appreciated when it was believed that they were genuine.

...

During the early 1970s, de Hory again decided to try his hand at painting, hoping to exploit his new-found fame: this time, he would sell his own, original work. While he had gained some recognition in the art world he made little profit.

...

Following his death, de Hory's paintings became valuable collectibles. His paintings had become so popular that forged de Horys began to appear on the market.


(Answer: As stated, the art world isn't rational)

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Re: The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:41 pm UTC

I find myself agreeing with hipsters; the status in appreciating artwork is from finding the art before everyone else tells you how good it is. "I saw this truly interesting piece about melted clocks by some guy named Dali, and just had to have it" is much better than "I spent enough money to feed a small country on a painting that other people insist is good".

Fuck you art world, you made me a hipster.

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Re: The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:43 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:I find myself agreeing with hipsters; the status in appreciating artwork is from finding the art before everyone else tells you how good it is. "I saw this truly interesting piece about melted clocks by some guy named Dali, and just had to have it" is much better than "I spent enough money to feed a small country on a painting that other people insist is good".

Fuck you art world, you made me a hipster.
Or you just don't know enough about art to critically evaluate the works that the art community is talking about? Or you're assuming that your latter case is how art buyers all operate?

Jesus; people, we get it, you don't get art and feel the need to criticize people who like art.
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Re: The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby addams » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:48 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:I find myself agreeing with hipsters; the status in appreciating artwork is from finding the art before everyone else tells you how good it is. "I saw this truly interesting piece about melted clocks by some guy named Dali, and just had to have it" is much better than "I spent enough money to feed a small country on a painting that other people insist is good".

Fuck you art world, you made me a hipster.

Dali both freaked me out and fascinated me.

He was such a character.
He and Pacassio must have had the same PR firm.

Both of those men were a work of Art.
They lived large on the Costa Brava.

No American can know what that is.
We can only imagine.

The Artists are dead?
Those ones are.

Who is working on the xkcd gallery of the Kunsthal Heist?
I looked at some of photos of what is missing.

The poor man.
I hope they slap his wrist and send him home to take care of his Mom.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:46 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:I find myself agreeing with hipsters; the status in appreciating artwork is from finding the art before everyone else tells you how good it is. "I saw this truly interesting piece about melted clocks by some guy named Dali, and just had to have it" is much better than "I spent enough money to feed a small country on a painting that other people insist is good".

Fuck you art world, you made me a hipster.
Or you just don't know enough about art to critically evaluate the works that the art community is talking about? Or you're assuming that your latter case is how art buyers all operate?

Jesus; people, we get it, you don't get art and feel the need to criticize people who like art.


Was originally referring to this:

Arrian wrote:Many people who spend tremendous amounts of money on art do so because it increases their status.


Art is about communication of ideas; if I 'get it', it's good, if not, it's probably not. Sometimes it's about experimenting with new mediums. Sometimes it just 'looks cool'. Sometimes it's a statement about humanity. But whatever it is, you have to communicate with your audience. Anything else might as well be arguing about Joe Biden eating a sandwich.

If a few people don't 'get it', that's their problem. If the majority of people don't understand your work, that's your problem. You are not profound or clever, just a pretentious asshole.
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Re: The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:49 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:If a few people don't 'get it', that's their problem. If the majority of people don't understand your work, that's your problem. You are not profound or clever, just a pretentious asshole.
Which is funny because you referenced Dali, while simultaneously condemning people whose art 'everyone else gets'.
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Re: The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby gmalivuk » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:55 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:I always wondered, if the forgers are that talented, why don't they have a career creating their own work?
Because they prefer making thousands of times more money by putting in that extra bit of work to be able to pass something off as a real Picasso, say, than they could make selling such clearly derivative work as their own, I expect.

Movies aren't a good comparison at all, because they make their money when millions of laypeople each pay $10 or so a pop to see them, while art is sold one at a time for hundreds to millions of times as much as movie tickets. The standards for evaluating them as works worth spending money on are completely different.

CorruptUser wrote:If the majority of people don't understand your work, that's your problem.
Why is it a problem at all? Unless you're creating art with the explicit purpose of having the majority of people understand it, why should their lack of understanding be particularly relevant to you at all? If you produce work that you enjoy producing, and don't starve in the process, why does it matter whether anyone else understands it? If you produce work that only a very few fabulously wealthy other people (think they) understand, and they pay you for it, why does it matter whether random schmucks like CorruptUser on the xkcd forums get it?

Whence this bizarre notion that artists and other content producers ought to give any shits about you?
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Re: The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby The Great Hippo » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:03 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:If the majority of people don't understand your work, that's your problem.
Why is it a problem at all? Unless you're creating art with the explicit purpose of having the majority of people understand it, why should their lack of understanding be particularly relevant to you at all? If you produce work that you enjoy producing, and don't starve in the process, why does it matter whether anyone else understands it? If you produce work that only a very few fabulously wealthy other people (think they) understand, and they pay you for it, why does it matter whether random schmucks like CorruptUser on the xkcd forums get it?

Whence this bizarre notion that artists and other content producers ought to give any shits about you?
Indeed, the example I like is the artist who produces a work, and then -- without ever showing it to another living soul -- stuffs it in their fireplace and burns it to ash.

Assuming that's the sort of art I enjoy doing, what's the problem?

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Re: The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:04 pm UTC

Dali's a surrealist. The message is supposed to be whatever your mind says it is.

As for whether the artists have a duty to give any shits about me, they don't. Everyone can have inside jokes. For example, Hollywood hasn't been too friendly to black people, not making many movies that black people would care about. Along comes Tyler Perry who makes films specifically for black people, and they love it. Most people don't like Tyler Perry movies, but that's fine, the movies weren't meant for the entire country, just a segment that had to settle watching themselves stuck as the 'best friend' or 'guy who dies first'. So Tyler Perry is a decent artist (yes, I said it). But when you make a movie that the people who it was meant for don't get it, it's a terrible movie.
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Re: The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby addams » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:07 pm UTC

Nah. Two people in a box with photos of Joe Biden would not become experts on Joe Biden.
They will become experts on themselves and each other.

I wonder; Will they be friends or like Dali and Pacassio?
Dali loved Pacassio.
Dali was a terrible tease.

Some of their conversations became legendary.
The best image of Pacassio was created by the hand of Dali.

http://twentytwowords.com/2013/04/16/pa ... -same-egg/

I have no idea what that is.
I think it is funny.

http://pennland.wordpress.com/2012/09/1 ... s-picasso/
Here it is.
I think that drawing is one of the best.

The story makes it better. Only a little.
That is a lovely image of Pacasso.

Pacasso would get very angry and upset with Dali.
Dali said some of that stupid shit, just, to upset Pacasso.

They were eating and talking with a bunch of other people.
Someone asked each to draw the other.

It was done on lined school paper.
Dali framed it and hung it in his museum.
It is a highly recognizable image.

Funny? Yes.
There was a rumor that Dali accused Pacasso of being like Cesar.
Pacasso would get all upset. So, sweet. So, funny.

I can never understand the love one Spaniard feels for another Spaniard.
Those two were not, just, Spaniards. They were that and artists and friends, of sorts.

How could two guys become famous before the Internet?
It is a curious thing. Is it not?

With the Internet everyone is Famous.
And; No one is Famous?
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby gmalivuk » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:08 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:But when you make a movie that the people who it was meant for don't get it, it's a terrible movie.
Fine, then let's pretend I agree that when you make art that the people who were intended to understand it don't understand it, it's terrible art.

I will then go on to argue that almost no art is actually terrible in this sense, because most of it isn't produced with the intent for a wide audience to "get it".
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Re: The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:12 pm UTC

I also don't like the notion that CU is speaking for how all purveyors or art operate. CLEARLY if someone wants an Art enough to spend lots of money on it, they're only buying it because someone suckered them into thinking it has meaning. :roll:
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Re: The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:18 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:I also don't like the notion that CU is speaking for how all purveyors or art operate. CLEARLY if someone wants an Art enough to spend lots of money on it, they're only buying it because someone suckered them into thinking it has meaning. :roll:


Actually I was referring to the people who bought it as a status symbol. I don't hold people who buy status symbols for the sake of the symbol in high regard. Those are the suckers. It's ok to spend millions on painting if you really want the painting, but less so just to show it off.

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Re: The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby The Great Hippo » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:19 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Actually I was referring to the people who bought it as a status symbol. I don't hold people who buy status symbols for the sake of the symbol in high regard. Those are the suckers.
It took me a long time to realize that people who value status symbols enough to pay for them aren't suckers so much as people paying for the things they value.

I still think that's a tremendously silly thing to spend your money on, but hey; I spend some of my money on comic books. Who am I to criticize?

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Re: The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:23 pm UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:Actually I was referring to the people who bought it as a status symbol. I don't hold people who buy status symbols for the sake of the symbol in high regard. Those are the suckers.
It took me a long time to realize that people who value status symbols enough to pay for them aren't suckers so much as people paying for the things they value.

I still think that's a tremendously silly thing to spend your money on, but hey; I spend some of my money on comic books. Who am I to criticize?
This sort of harps back to gmals point; who are you (To CU, I mean) to determine what people should value? Either artists who make art, or people who care about what people think of their car, or nerds who scoff at someone who can't recite the Green Lantern oath.
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Re: The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:26 pm UTC

If you enjoy collecting silver age comic books, more power to you. If you enjoy flying Cessnas, sure, go ahead. If you really enjoy the taste of sturgeon splooge, eat up. But if you do those things only to show how much better you are than everyone else?

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Re: The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:29 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:If you enjoy collecting silver age comic books, more power to you. If you enjoy flying Cessnas, sure, go ahead. If you really enjoy the taste of sturgeon splooge, eat up. But if you do those things only to show how much better you are than everyone else?
Again, the point is that caring what others think is not in and of itself a shallow or condemnable outlook. If you've ever worn formal wear, you've fallen into that particular 'trap'.
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Re: The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:34 pm UTC

I've worn the monkey suit because its what employers and customers expect and want. Many of them didn't want to wear ties and a suit but they had to in order to show their bosses and customers they were willing to do what was necessary. When someone wears the suit, they are saying "I'm a functioning and contributing member of society!" When Snowflake refuses to wear a suit, Snowflake isn't saying "I'm an individual!", Snowflake is saying "I don't do what needs to be done!".

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Re: The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:41 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:I've worn the monkey suit because its what employers and customers expect and want. Many of them didn't want to wear ties and a suit but they had to in order to show their bosses and customers they were willing to do what was necessary. When Snowflake refuses to wear a suit, Snowflake isn't saying "I'm an individual!", Snowflake is saying "I don't do what needs to be done!".
Alternatively, you're saying 'This event and the level of formality is important to you, and you've requested a level of decorum, which I will respect by abiding by'. You've said nothing of how attractive you find the wear, only that you care what they think and are willing to do something for them. Does that make you a wretched sycophant?

You seem to be under the impression that anyone who pays large sums of money for art is SOLELY doing it because some amorphous and potentially insidious body of 'art critics' has released a statement to the effect of 'We hereby believe that PaintingX is meaningful, and thus, is valuable and to that end also the owner of which has a large penis'. I think that's a silly perspective to have.
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Re: The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby The Great Hippo » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:41 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:If you enjoy collecting silver age comic books, more power to you. If you enjoy flying Cessnas, sure, go ahead. If you really enjoy the taste of sturgeon splooge, eat up. But if you do those things only to show how much better you are than everyone else?
How is buying a thing for the sake of increasing your social status fundamentally different than buying a beautiful dress so people will admire you at a gala? Or investing in personal grooming because you enjoy it when people admire your appearance?

How are any of these things fundamentally different than buying a work of art just because you want people to admire your taste?

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Re: The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:54 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:I find myself agreeing with hipsters; the status in appreciating artwork is from finding the art before everyone else tells you how good it is. "I saw this truly interesting piece about melted clocks by some guy named Dali, and just had to have it" is much better than "I spent enough money to feed a small country on a painting that other people insist is good".

Fuck you art world, you made me a hipster.


Meh. Being the first to appreciate something, art or not, is not usually a very important trait. My enjoyment of a movie is not diminished by seeing it on the second showing of opening night instead of the first. My enjoyment of looking on a painting I appreciate is not diminished one iota by the knowledge that many people have seen it before me. Have not billions of people looked up at the stars? Are they uglier for it?

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Re: The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:01 pm UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:If you enjoy collecting silver age comic books, more power to you. If you enjoy flying Cessnas, sure, go ahead. If you really enjoy the taste of sturgeon splooge, eat up. But if you do those things only to show how much better you are than everyone else?
How is buying a thing for the sake of increasing your social status fundamentally different than buying a beautiful dress so people will admire you at a gala? Or investing in personal grooming because you enjoy it when people admire your appearance?

How are any of these things fundamentally different than buying a work of art just because you want people to admire your taste?


If you bought a dress worth a fortune that looks better than anything else, it may have been worth it. If you bought an ok dress that has a cheaper and better alternative, you made a mistake. If you bought a $120 blank tshirt...



Old joke. Two investment bankers are talking. First one says, "see this tie? It cost me $500!". Second one replies, "you fool! There is a guy on the corner who sells that exact one for $1,000!"

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Re: The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:30 pm UTC

You're still assuming that EVERYONE who pays for art is doing so without 'getting it' themselves, and only cares what others think about it. And you're still ignoring TGHs point about why even if this was their motive, who cares?
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Re: The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby The Great Hippo » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:38 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:If you bought a dress worth a fortune that looks better than anything else, it may have been worth it. If you bought an ok dress that has a cheaper and better alternative, you made a mistake. If you bought a $120 blank tshirt...
Who's the ultimate arbiter of what dresses look better than all the others? If everyone in the room thinks that the 100,000$ dollar dress with a tag that says 'THIS DRESS COSTS 100,000 DOLLARS' looks better than the otherwise-identical 10$ dress (which doesn't have said tag), what are you going to do -- burst into this room and inform everyone their tastes are terrible?

I mean, yeah, in some sense, their tastes are terrible. But we all accept that taste is relative and there's no such thing as a genuine metric for 'good' vs 'bad' taste. They've decided that tag is important; you telling them they're wrong accomplishes nothing (and I would argue actually makes you wrong in a way they aren't!).
CorruptUser wrote:Old joke. Two investment bankers are talking. First one says, "see this tie? It cost me $500!". Second one replies, "you fool! There is a guy on the corner who sells that exact one for $1,000!"
My takeaway from this joke is that sometimes, people like to buy things that are expensive only because they are expensive. And while we can all see how that's, in some sense, very wasteful -- it's much harder to see how that's 'Doing It Wrong'.

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Re: The Kunsthal Heist comes to a Very Bad End

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:48 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:You're still assuming that EVERYONE who pays for art is doing so without 'getting it' themselves, and only cares what others think about it.


Where did I assume that?


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