The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby ucim » Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:40 am UTC

addams wrote:By 1090 'they' could do it with Voice.
That's rather advanced technology for the day, no?

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby Soupspoon » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:18 am UTC

"We don't need no steenkin' icebreakers!"

(An amusing aspect of it is that it's a refrigerated cargo vessel tedgibg (?edging?, did I mean?) its way through the less icy seas.)
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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby addams » Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:43 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:"We don't need no steenkin' icebreakers!"

(An amusing aspect of it is that it's a refrigerated cargo vessel tedgibg its way through the less icy seas.)
Yep.
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Ice free Ports in the North are important to Geopolitics.
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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby LaserGuy » Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:13 pm UTC

Scientists discover enzyme in the human gut that digests the antigen responsible for the "A" type in blood, allowing it to be rapidly converted into type O with apparently no adverse effects. Could potentially revolutionize the blood donation/transfusion system.

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby Soupspoon » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:04 pm UTC

Given I'm O+, I wonder if they'll ever 'digest' my RhD too? (Not that they have any problems with me as I am. I think it's still Ok for around 85% of potential donees.)

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby SDK » Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:34 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Scientists discover enzyme in the human gut that digests the antigen responsible for the "A" type in blood, allowing it to be rapidly converted into type O with apparently no adverse effects. Could potentially revolutionize the blood donation/transfusion system.

That's cool. No need for donor matching if they do this for everything. Just grab a bag and go!
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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby Yakk » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:19 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Scientists discover enzyme in the human gut that digests the antigen responsible for the "A" type in blood, allowing it to be rapidly converted into type O with apparently no adverse effects. Could potentially revolutionize the blood donation/transfusion system.

So some humanoid ancestor had a reason to evolve blood-digesting enzymes, eh?

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby ijuin » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:13 am UTC

I expect that the enzyme evolved because humanity’s ancestors ate their meat raw and bloody back before they learned how to make fire on demand to cook it.

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby jewish_scientist » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:32 pm UTC

Do animals have the same antigens as humans though?
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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:42 pm UTC

Humans learned to cook their meat 500,000 years ago, and you can guarantee they didn't cook their food only to medium rare. In the days before modern sanitation, you either cooked your food thoroughly or you died a horrible tapeworm infested death. Even today, cook your food. Unless you want to turn out like the French...

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby DavidSh » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:18 pm UTC

jewish_scientist wrote:Do animals have the same antigens as humans though?

It appears that apes and old world monkeys have the ABO system of antigens. See http://www.pnas.org/content/109/45/18493. Important functional parts of the antigens are the same across species, but I can't tell from the paper how much difference there might be in terms of what enzymes could digest them. It seems likely that an enzyme to digest the A antigen would be useful for consuming chimpanzees, but not for consuming gorillas.

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby Mutex » Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:05 pm UTC

So if you're in a situation where you have to choose between eating a chimpanzee or a gorilla, definitely choose the chimpanzee?

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:26 pm UTC

Well, the chimp is much less likely to rip your limbs off in a fight. Your chance of winning that fight is still not good, but better than against a gorilla.

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby Angua » Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:27 pm UTC

I'm sure your protein digesting enzymes will deal just fine so it doesn't really matter.
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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby Chen » Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:42 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Well, the chimp is much less likely to rip your limbs off in a fight. Your chance of winning that fight is still not good, but better than against a gorilla.


Aren't chimps way more dangerous to people than gorillas though? Not in terms of strength (both are sufficiently strong to kill you easily) but in terms of disposition?

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby Mutex » Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:44 pm UTC

Possibly, but I think that would be moot if you're trying to eat them.

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby Chen » Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:47 pm UTC

Mutex wrote:Possibly, but I think that would be moot if you're trying to eat them.


I suppose. I mean if you're going to try and kill the thing so you can eat it and you're ending up in some sort of hand to hand match you're pretty dead either way. The chimp may basically torture you first though. Chimp attack


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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby speising » Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:22 pm UTC


well chicken nuggets are a very low bar to clear, considering that they aren't very chickeny in the first place.

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby orthogon » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:13 pm UTC

speising wrote:

well chicken nuggets are a very low bar to clear, considering that they aren't very chickeny in the first place.

Yeah, chicken nuggets are a case where "it tastes a bit like chicken" isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.
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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby xkcdhatguy » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:25 pm UTC

Test post

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:58 pm UTC

xkcdhatguy wrote:Test post

Since you aren't answering your PMs after harassing people via PM yet denying them the ability to reply (and subsequently having your ability to PM removed) you're now going to have your posting rights removed as well.

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby New User » Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:49 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:
speising wrote:

well chicken nuggets are a very low bar to clear, considering that they aren't very chickeny in the first place.

Yeah, chicken nuggets are a case where "it tastes a bit like chicken" isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.

Wait, shouldn't it be an excellent endorsement? Wouldn't it be the epitome of chicken nugget emulation to make bioreactor-grown foodstuffs that taste a bit like chicken and aren't very chickeny?

Engineers: "We made this little lump of stuff. It's edible, technically."
Skeptical populace: "Well, it's about as disgusting as a chicken nugget then."
Engineers: "Exactly!"

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby commodorejohn » Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:40 pm UTC

This is a valid perspective - but, while it may be that correctly mimicking the properties of low-quality live poultry means a correct and satisfactory chicken emulation, it could alternatively be that this one particular corner case happens to line up while other results are more out of kilter. We shall have to see.
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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby Mutex » Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:17 pm UTC

I mean, it's a good start isn't it? Also, to me, chicken nuggets taste like... chicken? I don't really get how it's less chickeny than other chicken.

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby sardia » Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:20 pm UTC

Mutex wrote:I mean, it's a good start isn't it? Also, to me, chicken nuggets taste like... chicken? I don't really get how it's less chickeny than other chicken.

A chicken nugget is like a meat loaf or a bread. A tasty foam thats cooked until it sets.

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby Mutex » Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:32 pm UTC

Huh, maybe they're different in the UK. Pretty sure they're just little chunks of chicken.

EDIT: According to Wikipedia:
The chicken is cut and shaped to the correct size. This is done manually, by a series of automatic blades, or by a process called grinding (a method of deboning in which the softer parts of the chicken carcass are forced through a mesh, leaving behind the more solid pieces, resulting in a meat paste. If used, this paste is then shaped before battering).

So it seems they can either be manually cut pieces of chicken, or a reformed paste. I guess this lab-grown chicken isn't as nice as it sounded, if it's like the paste nuggets.
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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby Zamfir » Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:40 pm UTC

The chlorine makes all the difference. Luckily, the UK will soon be able to enjoy American-style chicken.

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby Tyndmyr » Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:52 pm UTC

Mutex wrote:I mean, it's a good start isn't it? Also, to me, chicken nuggets taste like... chicken? I don't really get how it's less chickeny than other chicken.


Well, they're often not all meat. It's like the hot dog process, just toss in whatever, grind it up. Connective tissues and such.

Toss on the camouflage of breading and frying, and it's definitely a low bar to hit for fake meat. McDonalds nuggets and such taste alright while fresh from the frier, but they rapidly become awful if cold. A chicken breast on the other hand, is still recognizably a chicken breast if it's been in the fridge for a day, and are still pretty good.

But it's still kinda cool.

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:47 pm UTC

Zamfir wrote:The chlorine makes all the difference. Luckily, the UK will soon be able to enjoy American-style chicken.


I for one prefer to not only not use every last piece of the chicken, but to also use the smaller "all natural hormone free" chickens in order to maximize the total number of chickens that get slaughtered.

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby jewish_scientist » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:12 am UTC

What the Boston School Bus Schedule Can Teach Us About AI

The core of the article is that communicating the input of an AI is just as vital as the output when optimizing policy changes. If you tell people that they need to get up 30 minutes earlier, then they will be angry. If you tell the same people that they need to get up 30 minutes earlier because this will help special needs children get to school on time, then will be annoyed, but understanding. When you really think about it, this makes sense. Saying that the program balanced all the factors does not mean much if you do not know what the factors are.
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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby Chen » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:44 am UTC

The fact that this algorithm had some schools ending at 1:30 pm is kinda absurd. Did no one think parents would be legitimately upset at trying to manage this?

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby Zamfir » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:32 pm UTC

AI is a somewhat misleading term here. I don't mean anything philosophical about intelligence or whatever. Just that "ai", at the moment, is mostly used for large scale machine-lesrning algorithms. Algorithms that take a dataset, identify patterns in that dataset, and use those patterns to extrapolate to situations outside of the dataset. And such algorithms can easily generate unintended behaviou,Behaviour that might have been implicitly coded in the dataset, and then in the weights of the trained model, but never written down in easily accessible form

But that not what's going on here. The MIT website says that they used a clever combination of straightforward optimisers, using very explicit goals and constraints. It's the age-old case of bureaucrats and techies deciding what's best for the people, while avoiding the messy step of asking them. The same can (and does) happen without any computers involved.

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby ucim » Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:18 pm UTC

Zamfir wrote:I don't mean anything philosophical about intelligence
Nonetheless, I'd say AI is also a matter of degree. Any mechanized set of procedures makes decisions; if those decisions are easy to understand we say it's a dumb machine, if it's very hard to understand ("what was it thinking?") we call it an AI. So...
Zamfir wrote:It's the age-old case of bureaucrats and techies deciding what's best for the people, while avoiding the messy step of asking them.
A bureaucracy is itself a form of AI. A dumb one perhaps, and one with unintended consequences which are very hard to work around, but even the human brain is just a clever combination of straightforward optimizers, huge enough in number and connectedness that we can't easily fathom it.

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby sardia » Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:46 pm UTC

You're watering down definitions just to avoid being wrong.

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby Dauric » Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:55 pm UTC

sardia wrote:watering down definitions


Homeopathic dictionary?
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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby speising » Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:01 pm UTC

Zamfir wrote:AI is a somewhat misleading term here. I don't mean anything philosophical about intelligence or whatever. Just that "ai", at the moment, is mostly used for large scale machine-lesrning algorithms. Algorithms that take a dataset, identify patterns in that dataset, and use those patterns to extrapolate to situations outside of the dataset. And such algorithms can easily generate unintended behaviou,Behaviour that might have been implicitly coded in the dataset, and then in the weights of the trained model, but never written down in easily accessible form

But that not what's going on here. The MIT website says that they used a clever combination of straightforward optimisers, using very explicit goals and constraints. It's the age-old case of bureaucrats and techies deciding what's best for the people, while avoiding the messy step of asking them. The same can (and does) happen without any computers involved.


actually, that's not what's going on here, according to the article. it's what they say their first article was about, but now it looks more like they didn't communicate their reasons well enough, or didn't factor in the selfishness of the priviledged parents.

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby ucim » Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:44 pm UTC

sardia wrote:You're watering down definitions just to avoid being wrong.


Huh?

What did I say (previously), that was wrong, for which what I said (now) covers?

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby sardia » Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:51 pm UTC

You're comparing ai to algorithms to the brain to bureaucracy. That's gotta be a fallacy because you might as well call what happened artisanal computing with hand made bits and cycles.

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby ucim » Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:18 pm UTC

sardia wrote:That's gotta be a fallacy because you might as well call what happened artisanal computing with hand made bits and cycles.
First off, that's not a convincing argument for why "that's gotta be a fallacy". That's not how it works.

Second, my comparisons were made in that same post, so it's a bit silly to say I made my post to avoid being wrong (in the very post I made to avoid being wrong in). In fact, saying so is itself very close to a fallacy.

Third, I think that the point I make is a reasonable one - that being, "intelligence" is a matter of degree, not a matter of kind. There's a wide variance in degree, so there's very little argument that an answering machine is dumb while a squirrel is smart. There's a wide gulf between them. But, AI is narrowing that gulf; "answering machines" are getting much smarter, and some believe that they will get smart enough to compete with squirrels. If that is true (and I believe it is), then either there's a demarcation in kind that will be crossed at some point, or there isn't. I posit the latter, which implies that intelligence is a matter of degree, rather than kind.

The comparison with bureaucracy is probably not unfamiliar to you either - the Chinese Room is a crude example. Whatever you think of the Chinese Room, it's a reasonable thing to think about, as it give insight as to what we mean by intelligence.

So, I don't really get your point, except that you don't agree with the particular degree I'm examining.

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