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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:56 pm UTC
by elasto
It might be something akin to a 'self-esteem' thing: You or something else simply 'making the effort' is enough enough to prove to the subconscious that you deserve to get better, so wheels are set in motion to make it so.

And making more of an effort in terms of choosing a more expensive placebo or a more time-consuming process 'proves' to the subconscious that you are 'more worthy' of improvement - and this apparently works even when the conscious mind knows it's a placebo.

I think there is some method to the madness here.

Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:20 pm UTC
by elasto
plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose!

Nike's new self-lacing trainer, the Adapt BB, has fallen at the first hurdle after the Android app that controls the shoe malfunctioned.

Billed as the "future of footwear", the $350 (£268) a pair Adapt BB launched on Sunday. However, an update to the Google Android app that allows wearers to loosen or tighten the trainer failed to work. Customers complain that the Android app only syncs with one shoe.

One reviewer on Google Apps, Glenn Jeffries, wrote: "The software update had an error and now my right shoe won't charge or turn on!!!! To spend $350 on a pair of shoes and not have it to work is embarrassing."

While Chris Sandoval said: "App wont pair with left shoe. Paired with sneakers right after unboxing then completely crashed after last update."

The Adapt BB contains a small motor which pulls the laces inside the trainer. Nike claims it has reinvented the shoe lace - which "dates back to 3500 BC, before Stonehenge or the Pyramids" - with its Adapt BB.

Prior to the launch, Nike said: "Shoelaces: you had a good run. But we think we may have finally bettered you."

Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:48 pm UTC
by speising
oh yes, it's so much easier to grab my phone, unlock it, look for the shoelaces app, start it, set my user profile and desired pull strength and then hope that it syncs with the shoes (provided they are charged and probably didn't get wet) that all the hassle to bend down and pull those strings with crass muscle strength!
really, a few update issues are just the price we have to pay for this comfort.

Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:05 pm UTC
by Flumble
I, for one, welcome our IoT everything. This sounds exactly like the kind of product where they put a full-blown, badly secured, wi-fi capable computer inside to save development costs. Makes it all the more fun to mess with.

Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:23 am UTC
by PAstrychef
speising wrote:oh yes, it's so much easier to grab my phone, unlock it, look for the shoelaces app, start it, set my user profile and desired pull strength and then hope that it syncs with the shoes (provided they are charged and probably didn't get wet) that all the hassle to bend down and pull those strings with crass muscle strength!
really, a few update issues are just the price we have to pay for this comfort.

I have friends who are unable to use shoelaces because of physical limitations. Most adaptive tech isn’t profitable if sold only to those who really need it, so if it’s any good at all it will be marketed to everyone.

Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:56 am UTC
by elasto
The number of people who aren't dexterous enough to tie shoelaces but are dexterous enough to use phone apps is probably tiny though. And in most of those cases normal slip-on shoes would suffice.

This isn't quite in the category of self-driving cars...

Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:52 pm UTC
by PAstrychef
elasto wrote:The number of people who aren't dexterous enough to tie shoelaces but are dexterous enough to use phone apps is probably tiny though. And in most of those cases normal slip-on shoes would suffice.

This isn't quite in the category of self-driving cars...

Phones can be used with minimal dexterity and voice commands. The small numbers of special users is, once again, exactly why items like this get marketed to the rest of us.

Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:16 pm UTC
by elasto
Phones can be used with minimal dexterity and voice commands. The small numbers of special users is, once again, exactly why items like this get marketed to the rest of us.

I disagree. To me it's like the (apocryphal) story of the US spending millions on developing a pen that can write in zero gravity and the Russians using a pencil.

There are plenty of simple solutions for shoes for the disabled - sandals, slip-ons, shoes with velcro straps etc; Nike created shoes that can self-tie from phone apps just because they thought it would be cool.

Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:57 pm UTC
by ucim
[tinhat]Do you think it might be usesful for Nike to know when people tie their shoes? At the moment I can't think of why, but there are so many other things I couldn't think of why then that facebook has taught us - from phone cameras to free email to web beacons to fitbit to alexa, which is nothing if not the telescreen from 1984... the IoT is mass surveillance being marketed one shoestring at a time.[/tinhat]

Jose

Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:20 pm UTC
by elasto
How often people are wearing their Nikes is probably useful info to Nike: if they wear them a lot they will wear out quicker and they might also be more into buying a new pair purely for fashion reasons, so you'll want to focus marketing efforts on them.

How tight people choose to lace their shoes might also influence future designs of normal trainers.

Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:00 pm UTC
by Soupspoon
With shoe shops, above even other retailers, it's all about the footfall!

Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:17 pm UTC
by commodorejohn
elasto wrote:
Phones can be used with minimal dexterity and voice commands. The small numbers of special users is, once again, exactly why items like this get marketed to the rest of us.

I disagree. To me it's like the (apocryphal) story of the US spending millions on developing a pen that can write in zero gravity and the Russians using a pencil.

There are plenty of simple solutions for shoes for the disabled - sandals, slip-ons, shoes with velcro straps etc; Nike created shoes that can self-tie from phone apps just because they thought it would be cool.

Yeah, this. I'm all for the development of adaptive tech for the sake of those who need it, but PAstrychef's theory violates the principle that one should never attribute to hypothetical secret genius what can be adequately explained by stupidity.

Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:34 pm UTC
by Flumble
Speaking of stupidity: how much do you have to over-engineer your "smart shoes" for the app to 1. need updates 2. break core functionality in those updates?

Bluetooth pairing is a standard feature of all smartphones. The shoe can at most report how fast it's tightened and the battery level, while the app can only signal if it should loosen/fasten or specify a specific tightness. You could use the most basic and unchanging UI library. Cards/tabs/divs for the shoes and a plus/minus button to add/remove a shoe. Per shoe either a slider (tightness) and 2 buttons (open/close) or 4 buttons (looser/faster/open/close) and a warning if the battery is almost dead (or, you know, leave it out, leave the whole battery sensor out and just instruct people to charge their shoes every night). Simple interface, loads in a jiffy, no privacy issues, just works, no updates needed ever. And the whole thing (including the two sides talking bluetooth) can be designed and tested in a week. Hell, you can even make it open source, make the protocol a standard and then add proprietary extras so people keep buying your newer shoes and register with the NSA.

Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:37 pm UTC
by ObsessoMom
Flumble wrote:I, for one, welcome our IoT everything. This sounds exactly like the kind of product where they put a full-blown, badly secured, wi-fi capable computer inside to save development costs. Makes it all the more fun to mess with.


When I was a kid in the late 70's and early 80's, mean kids used to crawl under the school bus seats to tie other kids' shoes to the seat legs, so that when they stood up and tried to get off the bus, they couldn't. I'm picturing Flumble pulling this prank remotely, thus avoiding the need to slither along the dirty floor, and/or make contact with chewing gum stuck to the seat bottoms.

Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:57 pm UTC
by Zamfir
@flumble, Just for fun I downloaded the app. It has
- a splash screen while loading
-an entry screen where I can choose to go to the Nike website, or continue in the app
- a slick movie playing behind that screen
- a login screen where I can choose to login, make a new account, or login with Facebook because of course
- plus links to the terms and conditions, and the privacy policy. Apparently 21st century shoelaces need those
- on the new account screen, creepily called "join us", I was again encouraged to log in with Facebook, always a bad sign)
- there were the standard fields with their various verification options, including a date-of-birth picker that worked different than any I had seen before (and not in a good way). It took a while to enter a date
- I filled in some random info, and was notified that these required contact with customer services through a link
- I cannot change this information anymore without reinstalling the app; opening the app will send me to the customer service website
- the customer service website comes with various movies, fancy transitions and clickable maps
- they don't work well, presumably my because my adblock and cookie settings are too restrictive
- eventually I could tell Nike my continent, country and language
- I was then dumped at the general website of Nike Nederland, no customer service in sight. Also, not the language I just selected
- I did not pursue this experiment any further

It's honestly amazing how many potential points of failure they managed to add to shoelaces.

Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:31 pm UTC
by Link
"Computerize your shoes. Even if it means sacrificing everything."

Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:11 am UTC
by ijuin
To err is human, but to really foul things up takes a computer.

Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:51 am UTC
by Dauric
Ladies and gentlemen.. I present to you more (absurd) prophecy by Douglas Adams:

The Shoe Event Horizon.

The Shoe Event Horizon is an economic theory that draws a correlation between the level of economic (and emotional) depression of a society and the number of shoe shops the society has.

The theory is summarized as such: as a society sinks into depression, the people of the society need to cheer themselves up by buying themselves gifts, often shoes. It is also linked to the fact that when you are depressed you look down at your shoes and decide they aren't good enough quality so buy more expensive replacements. As more money is spent on shoes, more shoe shops are built, and the quality of the shoes begins to diminish as the demand for different types of shoes increases. This makes people buy more shoes.

The above turns into a vicious cycle, causing other industries to decline.

Eventually the titular Shoe Event Horizon is reached, where the only type of store economically viable to build is a shoe shop. At this point, society ceases to function, and the economy collapses, sending a world spiralling into ruin. In the case of Brontitall and Frogstar World B, the population forsook shoes and evolved into birds.

Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:19 am UTC
by Coyne
Somehow, I missed that shoe theory. I don't think it actually applies to our world though. If I were to try to select an analog in our country, it would be a toss-up between payday loan stores and drug stores.

Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:17 pm UTC
by commodorejohn
Coyne wrote:Somehow, I missed that shoe theory. I don't think it actually applies to our world though. If I were to try to select an analog in our country, it would be a toss-up between payday loan stores and drug stores.

Based on observed trends in runaway-but-unsustainable shop construction, I'd have to suggestion cell-phone stores/mall kiosks.

Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:26 pm UTC
by Magnanimous
commodorejohn wrote:Based on observed trends in runaway-but-unsustainable shop construction, I'd have to suggestion cell-phone stores/mall kiosks.

In my area those locations have all turned into pot stores.

Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:34 pm UTC
by Mutex
Magnanimous wrote:
commodorejohn wrote:Based on observed trends in runaway-but-unsustainable shop construction, I'd have to suggestion cell-phone stores/mall kiosks.

In my area those locations have all turned into pot stores.

Do people in your area have a lot of indoor plants?

Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:44 pm UTC
by Soupspoon
Mutex wrote:
Magnanimous wrote:
commodorejohn wrote:Based on observed trends in runaway-but-unsustainable shop construction, I'd have to suggestion cell-phone stores/mall kiosks.

In my area those locations have all turned into pot stores.

Do people in your area have a lot of indoor plants?

I'm guessing yes/yes*…

* delete as inapplicable

Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:09 pm UTC
by cphite
ucim wrote:[tinhat]Do you think it might be usesful for Nike to know when people tie their shoes? At the moment I can't think of why, but there are so many other things I couldn't think of why then that facebook has taught us - from phone cameras to free email to web beacons to fitbit to alexa, which is nothing if not the telescreen from 1984... the IoT is mass surveillance being marketed one shoestring at a time.[/tinhat]

Jose


It's incredibly useful for Nike to have a list of names and contact information for people who buy Nike shoes; and it's even more useful to Nike to have a network of other people who presumably share common interests, hence the Facebook login. Ultimately, they want to know who is buying the product, how to contact them, and what other interests their customers might have so they can advertise accordingly.

Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:16 pm UTC
by ucim
cphite wrote:It's incredibly useful for Nike to have a list of names and contact information for people who buy Nike shoes;
They have that already from the credit card data. What this potentially gives them is a live, continuous data stream about those people's lives.

The accelerometer in a cellphone is basically a useless toy, but it has been co-opted as probably the most powerful espionage device around. I'm not convinced this was a lucky accident.

Jose

Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:38 pm UTC
by Flumble
Hmm, the accelerometer has had one very basic and useful use: deciding the rotation of the display and (on some devices) tagging the orientation of photos.
The increasing accuracy of accelerometers (to the point where you can use it for keylogging) has two at least as likely explanations: it improves the usefulness for gimmicky applications (I like skymap during the odd night I go stargazing) and serious applications alike, and the producers of accelerometers are improving their process so newer, better, smaller (harder, faster) accelerometers may well be cheaper.

Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:41 pm UTC
by ucim
Flumble wrote:useful use: deciding the rotation of the display
Yeah, that thing that means that when somebody sends me a vertical image, it gets displayed horizontally (and letterboxed), and when I turn the phone to display it full screen and the right side up, it letterboxes that and then rotates it away again.

Jose

Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:10 pm UTC
by Soupspoon
cphite wrote:Ultimately, they want to know who is buying the product, how to contact them, and what other interests their customers might have so they can advertise accordingly.

"Do you have feet? Are you somebody who likes to covers your feet with a vaguely impermeable and not entirely floppy covering? Whether you run, jog, walk or even just sit down a lot in your wheelchair but want something other than one of those a two-feet-slippers? Shoes! Buy one or more pairs!"

Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:39 pm UTC
by commodorejohn
Shoes for industry, shoes for defense?

Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:03 am UTC
by Soupspoon
Your Country Need Shoes!

Ask not what your country can do for shoes – ask what shoes can do for your country.

Liberté, égalité, Giuseppe Zanotti.

Nemo me impune lace-it-up.

Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:04 pm UTC
by cphite
ucim wrote:
cphite wrote:It's incredibly useful for Nike to have a list of names and contact information for people who buy Nike shoes;
They have that already from the credit card data. What this potentially gives them is a live, continuous data stream about those people's lives.

The accelerometer in a cellphone is basically a useless toy, but it has been co-opted as probably the most powerful espionage device around. I'm not convinced this was a lucky accident.

Jose


Credit card data tells them who bought the shoes; that may or may not be you.

With this app, they know you are actually wearing the shoes, and how to contact you. By adding a map, they know where and when you're wearing them - which they can correlate with other shoe owners. They know what kind of things there are to do around you - walking and running trails, ball courts, skating, etc. By letting you login via Facebook they know who your friends are; they can buy information about those people from Facebook, so they know what their interests are and who their friends are, and what their friends interests are, etc; and can combine that with location data.

In short, this is a marketing gold mine.

Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:48 pm UTC
by ijuin
In short, I’m willing to pay more money to permanently end the invasion of my privacy than I am willing to pay to purchase their products, ever.

Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:12 pm UTC
by cphite
ijuin wrote:In short, I’m willing to pay more money to permanently end the invasion of my privacy than I am willing to pay to purchase their products, ever.


Not really sure it matters. Advertisers are already messing with facial recognition; recognizing a logo isn't much different. It won't be long before just walking around in public with Nike shoes lets them know that you're a Nike customer, as well as where you are, what you do, and when you do it. At least now you have to willingly give them your information on a device... soon, you'll do it just by going out in public.

Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:48 am UTC
by ObsessoMom
cphite wrote:It's incredibly useful for Nike to have a list of names and contact information for people who are gullible.


FTFY

Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:29 am UTC
by commodorejohn
cphite wrote:Not really sure it matters. Advertisers are already messing with facial recognition; recognizing a logo isn't much different. It won't be long before just walking around in public with Nike shoes lets them know that you're a Nike customer, as well as where you are, what you do, and when you do it. At least now you have to willingly give them your information on a device... soon, you'll do it just by going out in public.

Until the Butlerian jihad, anyway.

Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:17 pm UTC
by cphite
ObsessoMom wrote:
cphite wrote:It's incredibly useful for Nike to have a list of names and contact information for people who are gullible.


FTFY


Well, sure; the gullible are the foundation of the advertising industry.

commodorejohn wrote:Until the Butlerian jihad, anyway.


Yeah, but I have to imagine we're still a good couple years away from Titans, so you're still gonna have to deal with this sort of marketing for a while.

Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:16 pm UTC
by Soupspoon
If you'll forgive the liberty, slightly subverting the thread to remind me we're living in the future, in this case the future of a past era when it was only the Good Times virus(-warning) that was causing problems. Mostly.

(Edit because I forgot to say, people having been potentially damaging the minds of children by warning them of something that was supposedly damaging the minds of children, but hadn't been except through those very warnings. It is truly Thursday September the 9312nd, 1993!)

Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:28 am UTC
by Link

Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:05 pm UTC
by Coyne
Hmmmmm... Where would the the surgeon install a #3DBenchy?

Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:09 am UTC
by ObsessoMom
In the brain. A frontal loboatamy.