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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:46 pm UTC
by Weeks
gmalivuk wrote:
elasto wrote:I was just pointing out that some people will still believe animals are being 'abused' for 'fun'.
The quotes should really go around "animals" more than any other word. I didn't get the connection because I don't know of anyone, including PETA-types, who thinks growing muscle tissue in a jar involves any kind of animal in the first place.
They do have to get the original cells from somewhere

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:52 pm UTC
by elasto
gmalivuk wrote:The quotes should really go around "animals" more than any other word. I didn't get the connection because I don't know of anyone, including PETA-types, who thinks growing muscle tissue in a jar involves any kind of animal in the first place.

Ah.

Remember that multiple types of animal abuse were mentioned in this thread - from a pet serial killer to farming.

When someone said 'none of this will be a problem when...' I was pointing out how problems will still remain.

While you are hopefully correct that PETA won't have an issue with vat-grown meat, maybe it'll be seen as immoral the same way some people view fictional violence as immoral: Because it will lead people to want 'the real thing' or some such...

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:10 pm UTC
by morriswalters
elasto wrote:While you are hopefully correct that PETA won't have an issue with vat-grown meat, maybe it'll be seen as immoral the same way some people view fictional violence as immoral: Because it will lead people to want 'the real thing' or some such...
They'll call it a gateway protein, certain to lead you to to harder proteins like Real Beef or, gasp, Blue Fin Tuna!

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:16 pm UTC
by gmalivuk
elasto wrote:While you are hopefully correct that PETA won't have an issue with vat-grown meat, maybe it'll be seen as immoral the same way some people view fictional violence as immoral: Because it will lead people to want 'the real thing' or some such...
Maybe some will see it that way, but PETA is explicitly in favor of vat-grown meat.

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:28 pm UTC
by Tyndmyr
elasto wrote:While you are hopefully correct that PETA won't have an issue with vat-grown meat, maybe it'll be seen as immoral the same way some people view fictional violence as immoral: Because it will lead people to want 'the real thing' or some such...


What, human flesh?

I mean, there's nothing unethical about it, now that you're not harvesting wild-grown humans for your lunch. No different than any other vat-meat.

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:58 pm UTC
by morriswalters
Tyndmyr wrote:What, human flesh?
Ugh!

Who'da thunk it?
I’m just going to come out and say this: PETA is offering 1 million dollars (say it in your best Dr. Evil voice) to the first team of scientists that can develop a method to produce commercially viable quantities of in vitro (lab-grown) chicken meat.

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:04 pm UTC
by Tyndmyr
Why, what's more unethical about growing human?

That said, the stipulations for this challenge appear nigh-impossible. If you can make something market competitive with chicken, in quantities enough to supply ten states, then 1 million dollars is chump change. Also, the link to the contest page is broken, it redirects to the home page. It doesn't seem like they *really* want to give that money out. Also, the comments are a delightful dumpster fire.

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:11 pm UTC
by cphite
elasto wrote:
gmalivuk wrote:Sure, I'm well aware that people will oppose vat-grown meat for other reasons. My question, which no one has responded to yet, is why opposition to pet ownership is related to vat-grown meat in any way.


Wow. It was just a throwaway line in response to another throwaway line.


But you said it on the internet...

The conversation was about how people 'abuse' animals 'for fun'. When someone said 'none of this will be a problem when we have vat-grown meat' I was just pointing out that some people will still believe animals are being 'abused' for 'fun'. That's all.


It really is shocking how you so blithely disregard the rights and the feelings of animals just because they're grown in vats, as if they were lesser than the animals who do not. You're a vatist! Or, a non-vatist? A spacist? Look, I don't know what the word is, but it almost certainly ends in "ist" and that's you, buddy!

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:15 pm UTC
by Zohar
Tyndmyr wrote:If you can make something market competitive with chicken, in quantities enough to supply ten states, then 1 million dollars is chump change.


They might mean "find a viable method of doing this" not "actually do this". The rest of your points are still valid, and of course we'd need to actually see the contest page to find out...

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:41 pm UTC
by morriswalters
And now for the rest of the story. Contest details at the bottom.
Zohar wrote:They might mean "find a viable method of doing this" not "actually do this". The rest of your points are still valid, and of course we'd need to actually see the contest page to find out...
Manufacture the approved product in large enough quantities to be sold commercially and successfully sell it at a competitive price in at least 10 states.
There you go. Oh, and the contest started in 08 and ended in 2014. I consider myself as having been gulled. My apologies for the first link.

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:03 pm UTC
by Dauric
Tyndmyr wrote:Why, what's more unethical about growing human?


For consumption? Inducing prion diseases in your customers for one.

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:59 pm UTC
by gmalivuk
Dauric wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:Why, what's more unethical about growing human?


For consumption? Inducing prion diseases in your customers for one.
Why would anyone include prion diseases in their lab-grown human flesh, though?

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:08 am UTC
by Liri
gmalivuk wrote:
Dauric wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:Why, what's more unethical about growing human?


For consumption? Inducing prion diseases in your customers for one.
Why would anyone include prion diseases in their lab-grown human flesh, though?

So the people eating it would be punished for how unethical they're being.

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:41 am UTC
by Weeks
There's no way out gmal, sooner or later PETA will get you

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:38 am UTC
by morriswalters
Weeks wrote:There's no way out gmal, sooner or later PETA will get you
Hmmmm.
gmalivuk wrote:Why would anyone include prion diseases in their lab-grown human flesh, though?
For the lulz? Because they can?

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:44 pm UTC
by sardia
https://www.buzzfeed.com/peteraldhous/s ... .hd06rw3d3
The government has vast fleets of noise-stealthed airplanes that circle the skies with reality augmented high resolution cameras. It flies weekdays only, suggesting routine surveillance.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:05 pm UTC
by Zamfir
The black planes are OK, it's the helicopters you should worry about.

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:56 am UTC
by morriswalters
This was reported on this summer in relation to the riots in Baltimore.

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:09 am UTC
by sardia
morriswalters wrote:This was reported on this summer in relation to the riots in Baltimore.

Correct, it's part of the best of 2016 lists that were coming out. http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/dam ... 1-stories/
The planes story is a favorite because it combines the best of data journalism, with old fashion gumshoe reporting.

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:34 am UTC
by Mambrino
You thought the Free World won the Cold War? Turns out, you were mistaken. It's only the somewhat less autocratic one.

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:56 am UTC
by Mambrino

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:05 am UTC
by Mambrino
Sorry for double(triple) post, but this is totally different news so I suppose it's better to make a new post than edit the old...

BBC: Facebook Live attack: Four held in Chicago

Four people have been arrested in the US city of Chicago over a video live-streamed on Facebook, in which a bound and gagged man was assaulted.

The man being assaulted has special needs, police say. His assailants can be heard making derogatory statements against white people and President-elect Donald Trump.

In one part of the video they use a knife to remove part of his scalp.

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:18 pm UTC
by sardia
http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/04/scien ... es-us.html
Scientists say a long-term pattern of climate variability called the Atlantic meridional mode helps determine the level of hurricane activity. In one phase, the mode results in warmer surface water in the tropical Atlantic and less wind shear, or changes in wind speed with altitude. Both circumstances favor the formation of hurricanes.

But at the same time, conditions near the coastal United States are the opposite: colder water, which provides less energy to a hurricane, and more wind shear, which tends to rip a storm apart. So although more hurricanes may form in the open ocean, as they approach land they are more likely to weaken. This protective barrier, as Dr. Kossin called it, does not exist in the Caribbean.

Global warming creates more hurricanes, and also creates a hurricane disrupting barrier along the US. Good thing nothing of importance is outside the US hurricane shield, amirite?*

*This barrier may weaken as global warming progresses, and it doesn't always protect the US.

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:28 pm UTC
by Thesh
sardia wrote:and it doesn't always protect the US.


[citation needed]

I've been in the US my entire life, and have never seen a single hurricane.

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:36 pm UTC
by morriswalters
You just haven't looked hard enough.

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:50 pm UTC
by CorruptUser
Thesh wrote:
sardia wrote:and it doesn't always protect the US.


[citation needed]

I've been in the US my entire life, and have never seen a single hurricane.


So umm, serious or joking?

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:57 pm UTC
by eran_rathan
CorruptUser wrote:
Thesh wrote:
sardia wrote:and it doesn't always protect the US.


[citation needed]

I've been in the US my entire life, and have never seen a single hurricane.


So umm, serious or joking?


Thesh is in Colorado. They don't get many hurricanes in Denver.

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:21 pm UTC
by Thesh
I just moved here this year. I was about 20 minutes from the ocean before (well, an ocean, the Pacific to be exact).

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:10 pm UTC
by CorruptUser
Wait, I thought you were from the Netherlands, Thesh? Or was that Diadem?

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:18 pm UTC
by Thesh
Definitely not me.

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:40 pm UTC
by Mutex
CorruptUser wrote:Wait, I thought you were from the Netherlands, Thesh? Or was that Diadem?


Diadem is from the Netherlands, yes.

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:44 pm UTC
by Liri
I've lived in Florida and North Carolina my whole life. I've seen a few. 8-)

Regarding the article though, that's unfortunate. Though it'll aid in my summer vacation pastime of walking along the beach looking at unwise houses falling into the ocean.

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:05 pm UTC
by sardia
Liri wrote:I've lived in Florida and North Carolina my whole life. I've seen a few. 8-)

Regarding the article though, that's unfortunate. Though it'll aid in my summer vacation pastime of walking along the beach looking at unwise houses falling into the ocean.

It seems more unfortunate for the rest of the Caribbean, since they are the least able to cope with hurricanes, and are the least emitters of carbon as well. It's another avenue that the western world can ignore global warming until it's too late.

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:08 pm UTC
by Liri
sardia wrote:
Liri wrote:I've lived in Florida and North Carolina my whole life. I've seen a few. 8-)

Regarding the article though, that's unfortunate. Though it'll aid in my summer vacation pastime of walking along the beach looking at unwise houses falling into the ocean.

It seems more unfortunate for the rest of the Caribbean, since they are the least able to cope with hurricanes, and are the least emitters of carbon as well. It's another avenue that the western world can ignore global warming until it's too late.

Weren't you saying they already lack that protective barrier of cold water? I didn't mean to diminish what Caribbean nations suffer by any means, I know they are generally far more destructive there.

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:25 pm UTC
by Angua
It depends on which Caribbean islands it hits. Thankfully most hurricanes generally seem to hit a few at a time so the rest of us can club together to send aid.

Haiti seems to have the worst time of hurricanes as they have the worst infrastructure to start with.

Nevis has been pretty lucky since Hugo. It's mainly the hotels that have a problem (tourists want to be on the beach), as people who live there don't tend to live near enough the sea for storm surge to cause a problem, and the buildings that still may get splashed on the waterfront are all shops with good concrete walls. The wall takes care of most of it these days. Flash flooding can occasionally be a problem, but tends to be in predictable places. Of course, countries with rivers (like Dominica) or that are a lot flatter and at sea level (like Anguilla) can have a much worse time of it.

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:02 pm UTC
by sardia
Liri wrote:
sardia wrote:
Liri wrote:I've lived in Florida and North Carolina my whole life. I've seen a few. 8-)

Regarding the article though, that's unfortunate. Though it'll aid in my summer vacation pastime of walking along the beach looking at unwise houses falling into the ocean.

It seems more unfortunate for the rest of the Caribbean, since they are the least able to cope with hurricanes, and are the least emitters of carbon as well. It's another avenue that the western world can ignore global warming until it's too late.

Weren't you saying they already lack that protective barrier of cold water? I didn't mean to diminish what Caribbean nations suffer by any means, I know they are generally far more destructive there.

The article leaves it ambiguous, mostly because the scientists themselves aren't sure. The barrier might even get stronger.

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:30 am UTC
by thunk
sardia wrote:
Liri wrote:
sardia wrote:
Liri wrote:I've lived in Florida and North Carolina my whole life. I've seen a few. 8-)

Regarding the article though, that's unfortunate. Though it'll aid in my summer vacation pastime of walking along the beach looking at unwise houses falling into the ocean.

It seems more unfortunate for the rest of the Caribbean, since they are the least able to cope with hurricanes, and are the least emitters of carbon as well. It's another avenue that the western world can ignore global warming until it's too late.

Weren't you saying they already lack that protective barrier of cold water? I didn't mean to diminish what Caribbean nations suffer by any means, I know they are generally far more destructive there.

The article leaves it ambiguous, mostly because the scientists themselves aren't sure. The barrier might even get stronger.

I'm not actually sure it's getting that much worse for the Caribbean. The evidence on what effects AGW actually has on hurricanes is confusing and mixed, and but seems to vaguely fall into fewer-but-stronger territory.

It seems however that in recent years there's been fewer hurricanes forming in the Main Development Region east of the Lesser Antilles due to a higher prevalence of wind shear, and that hurricane activity seems to be starting really north of 20 N. This would shift burden to the Greater Antilles (sorry Haiti) and the US, but leave much of the Caribbean better-off.

I think I also saw a study that said similar things for the Eastern Pacific--hurricanes striking Hawai'i would get more common, but the Mexican coast would be much less frequently impacted.

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:49 am UTC
by Diadem
CorruptUser wrote:Wait, I thought you were from the Netherlands, Thesh? Or was that Diadem?

Our names are not that similar, are they?

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:50 am UTC
by Thesh
It's not the names that are similar, it's the avatars.

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:03 am UTC
by Liri
Thesh wrote:It's not the names that are similar, it's the avatars.

I thought for the longest time (circa a couple months) that you were actually a spooky girl.

Edit: isn't it weird reading "circa a"? Like why doesn't english allow for "circan a" for instance?

I'm drunk I'm osrry the new s is dark yes