The Darker Side of the News

Seen something interesting in the news or on the intertubes? Discuss it here.

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Sableagle
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Sableagle » Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:32 pm UTC

ObsessoMom wrote:I've enjoyed hearing snippets from Trump's Inaugural Address in which he did not sound as if he loved things here very much. Apparently running for public office is an acceptable alternative to "Leave It" if you don't "Love It."

Oh, wait, the four Congressmembers that Trump was criticizing did that, too. Oops.

How about "Love It or Leave It, Unless You're White and Male, In Which Case Complaining About How Terrible Things Are in America Is Perfectly Fine"?

A few decades ago, the phrase was: "You shut your mouf! I've got LOADSAMUNNEY!"
I wonder how the creator of that character feels about a parody character he killed off getting resurrected and elected.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Mutex » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:42 pm UTC

Sableagle wrote:A few decades ago, the phrase was: "You shut your mouf! I've got LOADSAMUNNEY!"
I wonder how the creator of that character feels about a parody character he killed off getting resurrected and elected.

All parody characters end up getting idolised by the very people they're mocking. Loadsamoney, Ali G, Alan Partridge, Al Murray's pub landlord, Jacob Rees Mogg etc.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Link » Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:31 pm UTC

Mutex wrote:
Jacob Rees Mogg

Image

--

Unrelated dark news: Iran sentences alleged US spies to death. The latest in a series of escalations since Trump withdrew from the JCPOA, and it's seriously starting to look like there's going to be yet another war in the Middle East in the near future. :/

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby addams » Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:57 pm UTC

The Creep has been starting Fires and then putting them out for as long as we've known him.
How is he going to put this one out?
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby ijuin » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:49 pm UTC

By pissing on things, same as always.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby elasto » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:19 am UTC

Link wrote:Unrelated dark news: Iran sentences alleged US spies to death. The latest in a series of escalations since Trump withdrew from the JCPOA, and it's seriously starting to look like there's going to be yet another war in the Middle East in the near future. :/

For Iran, Trump baits and escalates. For NK, Trump praises and flatters, despite that being by far the more dangerous, unpredictable and downright evil regime. And all because Trump has to do the opposite of anything Obama did and tear down anything he achieved.

Obama may have been fairly ineffective all in all, especially in terms of legacy, but he never struck me as someone interested in politics for points-scoring. That's why he was such a threat to the right early on, because he was seen to be someone genuinely interested in improving the country for improvement's sake.

Had he succeeded he might have permanently realigned American politics, but the right went nuclear, and sadly, to all intents and purposes they won.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby addams » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:36 am UTC

elasto wrote:
Link wrote:Unrelated dark news: Iran sentences alleged US spies to death. The latest in a series of escalations since Trump withdrew from the JCPOA, and it's seriously starting to look like there's going to be yet another war in the Middle East in the near future. :/

For Iran, Trump baits and escalates. For NK, Trump praises and flatters, despite that being by far the more dangerous, unpredictable and downright evil regime. And all because Trump has to do the opposite of anything Obama did and tear down anything he achieved.

Obama may have been fairly ineffective all in all, especially in terms of legacy, but he never struck me as someone interested in politics for points-scoring. That's why he was such a threat to the right early on, because he was seen to be someone genuinely interested in improving the country for improvement's sake.

Had he succeeded he might have permanently realigned American politics, but the right went nuclear, and sadly, to all intents and purposes they won.
elasto...?
Did you say Obstruction and Mic McConnell of Kentucky?

Huh...?
That's what I read.

Reading between the lines has gotten us NoWhere.
Let's just say it.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:15 pm UTC

elasto wrote:For Iran, Trump baits and escalates. For NK, Trump praises and flatters, despite that being by far the more dangerous, unpredictable and downright evil regime.


Debatable.

Iran likely had foreknowledge of 9/11 (most of the terrorists passed through Iran first) and let it happen, because screw USA that's why
Then during Afghanistan, funded various insurgent groups even though the Taliban was a sworn enemy of all Shia, because again FU that's why
Also funded every last insurgent group they could in Iraq, even though, again, Saddam was a sworn enemy, because again, FU that's why
Created the Yemen war
Funds Hamas, in order to get filthy Jews and Sunnis to kill each other for Iran's own goals
Over the years, is in part responsible for crises in Lebanon
Is a big if not the main reason Assad is still in power

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby addams » Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:35 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:
elasto wrote:For Iran, Trump baits and escalates. For NK, Trump praises and flatters, despite that being by far the more dangerous, unpredictable and downright evil regime.


Debatable.

Iran likely had foreknowledge of 9/11 (most of the terrorists passed through Iran first)
Really??
Passing through is enough to make the Nation guilty of the individual's crimes??

The Fact that all the men involved with the active events on 9/11-01 were born, educated,
had passports from Saudi Arabia means nothing?

Because, well....Saudi Arabia buys a lot of weapons from U.S. Corporations? and...Iran hardly give U.S. Corporations any Cash?

Iran is guilty in your eyes because they allow men to pass through, unchecked?
The World and the workings of the Human Mind blows My Mind!

oh...And...That's the way buildings fall down, too?
Straight down on their foundations.

Like trees do.
We see it all the time.

Why?
Oh, Why, are we bring up 9/11??
Is it a tick?
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
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by mr. Oscar Wilde.

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They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby elasto » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:21 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Debatable.

NK could kill millions in SK at the drop of a hat just with their conventional arsenal, and they have nukes unlike Iran. They are also pretty adept and ruthless when it comes to hacking which will be the battleground of the future.

There's no question to my mind that they are far more dangerous, far more unpredictable and far more evil.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Sableagle » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:45 pm UTC

Spoiler:
CorruptUser wrote:Iran likely had foreknowledge of 9/11
Image
CorruptUser wrote:(most of the terrorists passed through Iran first)
Image
CorruptUser wrote:and let it happen
Image
CorruptUser wrote:, because screw USA that's why
Then during Afghanistan, funded various insurgent groups
Does "various insurgent groups" include the Taliban, or were Iranian forces fighting battles against Taliban forces and taking casualties while keeping Taliban heroin off British streets and British money out of Taliban coffers? Do try to be specific about these little details, unless you're as dishonest as an MMS seller or flat earther and deliberately trying to mislead your audience by being vague.
CorruptUser wrote:even though the Taliban was a sworn enemy of all Shia, because again FU that's why
Also funded every last insurgent group they could in Iraq,
Image
Has anybody ... no, never mind. Of *course* nobody's mentioned that Saddam and the entire Shi'i population of Iraq aren't the same person, and you haven't been able to figure that out for yourself. Why would you? You know Iran sent forces into Iraq to protect Iraqi civilians from the terrorist organisation created by the unjustified invasion and occupation with insufficient total numbers, insufficient intelligence operators, insufficient interpreters, insufficient cultural knowledge, no plan beyond giving election campaign donors juicy contracts and far too many opportunistic child-rapists among the soldiers sent there? Had that little detail escaped your attention?
CorruptUser wrote:even though, again, Saddam was a sworn enemy, because again, FU that's why
Created the Yemen war
ImageIf you're going to regurgitate the shite that was being spewed onto politics boards by fake historians, fake veterans and thinly-disguised racists in 2005, you're going to get a Image on fucking everything.
CorruptUser wrote:Funds Hamas, in order to get filthy Jews and Sunnis to kill each other for Iran's own goals
Image
CorruptUser wrote:Over the years, is in part responsible for crises in Lebanon
ImageWhile you're at it, be sure to cite plentiful evidence that the USA, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar, the UK and France are all less responsible for crises in Lebanon.
CorruptUser wrote:Is a big if not the main reason Assad is still in power
[/quote]Image

Image

Look at all familiar? Seen it before, ever?

How about this?

Image

Have you seen that before? Last time one of you lot was agitating for the obliteration of Irani society and infliction of millions of casualties on Iran's civilian population ("because fuck sand-niggers, that's why," as you lot tend to put it) someone quoted an excerpt from that book and the only reply it got from your fake historian was:
Who is this clown, and what are his credentials?
Have you managed to get round to reading it yet, or are you doing a flat-earther impression there, too?

Image


It's like a laser precision "How to piss off ST" bomb. -ST
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby ucim » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:47 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:
elasto wrote:For Iran, Trump baits and escalates. For NK, Trump praises and flatters, despite that being by far the more dangerous, unpredictable and downright evil regime.

Debatable.
Iran likely had [...]
Yes, Iran did Bad Things. But elasto was comparing and contrasting. North Korea does Bad Things too. I won't pretend to have enough knowledge of world politics to pick nits about which was Worse, but I do not think North Korea's Bad Things are so minor as to be ignorable in the face of Iran's. IMO elasto's comment still sheds light on our Orange Clown President, or OCP.

addams wrote:oh...And...That's the way buildings fall down, too?
Straight down on their foundations.

Like trees do.
We see it all the time.
Well, yes. Exactly. Buildings (unlike trees) are mostly empty space, and are very vertical. So long as the forces weakening the structure are uniform, they will collapse into themselves.

Jose
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Thesh » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:48 pm UTC

Sableagle, are you using images instead of text just to make your post more annoying?
Summum ius, summa iniuria.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Mutex » Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:12 pm UTC

Thesh wrote:Sableagle, are you using images instead of text just to make your post more annoying?

I've never added anyone to my foe's list before, but fuck having to wade through his nonsense any more.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Sableagle » Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:43 pm UTC

ucim wrote:So long as the forces weakening the structure are uniform, they will collapse into themselves.
There's a threshold of uniformity involved.

Image

This one suffered non-uniform structural failure.

Red Road didn't fall like that, either, even though they tried to make it do so.

Quite astonishing that falling debris could set fire to documents relating to insider trading investigations in such a way as to accidentally demolish Building 7 that neatly.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby sardia » Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:44 pm UTC

The lesson is simple. Do you own nukes? If yes, let's talk nice. If no, I'm gonna fuck you up to get what I want.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby addams » Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:02 pm UTC

Sableagle wrote:
ucim wrote:So long as the forces weakening the structure are uniform, they will collapse into themselves.
There's a threshold of uniformity involved.

Image

This one suffered non-uniform structural failure.

Red Road didn't fall like that, either, even though they tried to make it do so.

Quite astonishing that falling debris could set fire to documents relating to insider trading investigations in such a way as to accidentally demolish Building 7 that neatly.
Yep.
Yet...It's old news.
Buildings Fall Over, even in the best of hands.

If the top of the World Trade Center had Fallen and Rolled like any normal building...well..
It sure as Hell would have been different. History'd be different, too.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby ucim » Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:09 pm UTC

Sableagle wrote:This one suffered non-uniform structural failure.
Yes, that one did. Not every building collapses uniformly. But it is not surprising under the circumstances that the WTC would.
Sableagle wrote:Quite astonishing that falling debris could set fire to documents relating to insider trading investigations...
The presence of a bit of burning jet fuel might have something to do with it? And maybe this falling debris fell with enough energy to, like, do some damage to the heating system? The destruction of building 7 does not seem "astonishing" to me under the circumstances.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:53 pm UTC

Here's your cite regarding Iran and 9/11. It took all of 10 seconds of...
1) Googling "Wikipedia+Iran+9/11
2) Clicking the Wikipedia link
3) Scrolling down to the relevant section

Now before you ask for a cite on the others, how about you just google it first, mkay?

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby gd1 » Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:44 am UTC

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a_ou5T7rNoA
John Oliver Has Trouble Describing What Gives Him Hope

(John Oliver talks with Colbert about the nature of hope in a way)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I98KeKV_F9g
Barry McGuire - Eve of Destruction (lyrics version)

(A song from 1960 or so)

Though maybe the kids will be better as John Oliver mentioned.
There is no emotion more useless in life than hate.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby addams » Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:38 pm UTC

ucim wrote:The presence of a bit of burning jet fuel might have something to do with it? And maybe this falling debris fell with enough energy to, like, do some damage to the heating system? The destruction of building 7 does not seem "astonishing" to me under the circumstances.

Jose
This argument has been put to rest Donkey's Years ago.
Still....Really??

What kind of Magical Fluid do you think Jet Fuel is?
Have you No Experience with Kerosene?
Kerosene is widely used to power jet engines of aircraft (jet fuel) and some rocket engines and is also commonly used as a cooking and lighting fuel, and for fire toys such as poi. In parts of Asia, kerosene is sometimes used as fuel for small outboard motors or even motorcycles.
Yes. It burns pretty hot.
If you pour it on steel it will burn off, leaving a little discoloration.
And; A funky smell. (gack) I know that smell.

There is no amount of Kerosene that will bring down an over engineered building.
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Some of us see The Gutter.
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Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Mutex » Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:15 pm UTC

addams wrote:There is no amount of Kerosene that will bring down an over engineered building.

The two planes that flew into the WTC were 767-200ERs, with a fuel capacity of 23,980 gallons. At the temperature kerosene burns, steel loses 80% of its strength.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby KittenKaboodle » Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:58 am UTC

addams wrote:There is no amount of Kerosene that will bring down an over engineered building.


"You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means"

Reminds me of the somewhat cheap shot Clinton took at Trump in the debates; I think he was going on about how he wanted to support American steel producers and Clinton made the snarky comment about how Trump used Chinese steel in his projects. Of course Trump had an asshole response; if Clinton didn't want him using Chinese steel she (one senator out of 100) should have made it illegal. But the question was his support of American industry, not what Clinton wanted, but I'm getting off track. He had a point about government regulation, if developers competing with Trump used (cheap) Chinese steel while patriotic Commander Bone spur used (expensive) American steel, investors would go with the developers that stood a chance of giving a return on investment.

I bet you see where I'm going, a building over engineered for conditions that were expected at the time of design would probably not be built. Unexpected conditions are unexpected, if you have a functioning crystal ball perhaps you should have reported the hijackers to the authorities before they flew the planes into the towers? Of course, it might not be economics, perhaps the buildings engineers were vaccinated as children and were therefore developmentally challenged. But anyway, considering that the earth is flat, one would naturally expect things to fall straight down. [/sarcasm] It is not clear to me who was supposed to benefit by controlled demolition destroying the buildings, lots of people witnessed the planes crashing into them, just the crash and fire would be pretty darn dramatic, the global warming conspiracists who were shorting airline stocks and oil futures would have profited anyway without the risk of preplaced explosives being discovered too soon[/more sarcasm]
Destroying entire buildings seems like a hard way to get rid of some documents, if one has access to plant explosives an ordinary burglary seems easier.

See also: https://xkcd.com/258/ https://xkcd.com/966/ and of course, https://xkcd.com/386/

Now, you may have meant "well engineered" rather than "over engineered", but as "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" I don't think it is too unreasonable to ridicule carelessness. Anyway, well engineered buildings are designed not to fall over sideways, and again, unexpected conditions are unexpected, wind and earthquakes are more common that airliners crashing into buildings causing extraordinary fires (ordinary fires being taking into consideration during design).

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby addams » Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:28 am UTC

(sigh...) Those buildings were over engineered.
The architect was building to a hight that was new and suspicious.

Those building barley moved when hit by the planes.
The over engineering was one of the problems the buildings had.

The work spaces tended to be dark and...well
...They were not making money.

Do you know how much trouble it would be to get a permit from the city to bring them down?
I've never seen a more perfect demolition. That shit is Hard to do.

It got done.
The NYC skyline is better for it, too.
Last edited by addams on Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:18 am UTC, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby EdgarJPublius » Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:28 am UTC

never seen a more perfect demolition


severely damaged or destroyed more than a dozen other adjacent and nearby structures...
2,763 people died...
the large pile of debris burned for three months...
produced enormous clouds of dust that covered Manhattan for days...
likely the cause of many respiratory illnesses in lower Manhattan...
The cleanup and recovery process at the World Trade Center site took eight months...


The fuck are you on about?
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby gmalivuk » Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:02 am UTC

Mutex wrote:At the temperature kerosene burns, steel loses 80% of its strength.

This right here is the main point. Jet fuel doesn't need to melt steel beams, it just needs to weaken them. Then gravity does the rest.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:29 am UTC

gmalivuk wrote:
Mutex wrote:At the temperature kerosene burns, steel loses 80% of its strength.

This right here is the main point. Jet fuel doesn't need to melt steel beams, it just needs to weaken them. Then gravity does the rest.


It doesn't even need to weaken them, as steel expands when heated. The expanding horizontal beams push the vertical support beams out of alignment, or fail themselves, and everything warps. Instead of the vertical beams holding the weight directly upright, the weight is now held at an angle, combined with several of the beams having been knocked out during the initial crash itself...

Oh, and for all the idiots insisting that an aluminum plane can't break steel beams, let me ask you this; if steel is stronger than ice, then how did the Titanic's steel hull get pierced by an iceberg?

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Mutex » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:32 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Oh, and for all the idiots insisting that an aluminum plane can't break steel beams, let me ask you this; if steel is stronger than ice, then how did the Titanic's steel hull get pierced by an iceberg?

Hoo boy, that's an argument people make? That if material A is stronger than material B, then no amount of material B flying in at 500MPH could possibly damage material A?

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby sardia » Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:09 pm UTC

TIL Addams is a 9/11 conspiracy theorist.:(

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby addams » Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:05 pm UTC

We need new dark news.
Why rehash old news?
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:06 pm UTC

Mutex wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:Oh, and for all the idiots insisting that an aluminum plane can't break steel beams, let me ask you this; if steel is stronger than ice, then how did the Titanic's steel hull get pierced by an iceberg?

Hoo boy, that's an argument people make? That if material A is stronger than material B, then no amount of material B flying in at 500MPH could possibly damage material A?



Yes, because conspiracy theories aren't about making sense, but about being smarter than everyone else without having to spend a decade earning a PhD, no matter how much crazy nonsense you have to spout.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby idonno » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:16 pm UTC

Also, building 7 was set on fire by debris that came from a collapsing 110 story building. Anyone that doesn't understand why rapidly converting this much potential energy into kinetic energy would generate a lot of heat should retake high school physics or at the very least rub their hands together really fast.

CorruptUser wrote:Oh, and for all the idiots insisting that an aluminum plane can't break steel beams, let me ask you this; if steel is stronger than ice, then how did the Titanic's steel hull get pierced by an iceberg?
Everyone knows that the Titanic was a conspiracy by J.P. Morgan to kill off rivals and allow the formation of the Federal Reserve.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby orthogon » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:23 pm UTC

sardia wrote:TIL Addams is a 9/11 conspiracy theorist.:(

Yeah that surprised me too.

A good friend of mine went down the 9/11 Truther rabbit hole for a while. He recommended a lot of Youtube videos and suchlike, and I ended up watching those and also reading a lot of material debunking the theories. By the time I was ready to talk to him about it, he seemed to have lost interest.

But I remember a couple of things, one being an explanation of why the top part of the tower(s) didn't "roll off" the top (as Addams seems to expect) but instead fell straight down through the building. As I recall, the argument was that there was no way the joints could withstand/supply the lateral forces required to cause that rotary motion. If the top has tipped a bit, gravity could act in such a way as to impart a moment on the top section, but for it to pivot like that, the centre of mass needs a horizontal component of acceleration, which can only come from a horizontal force applied by the the lower part of the building. I think part of the problem (besides wilfully misleading claims) is that our intuition lets us down when we try to imagine how such a large structure (or mechanism) would behave. We imagine how a scaled down version (built of Lego, or wood) would behave, not really understanding that the laws of physics don't scale like that: the full-sized version is much flimsier than the model, even though it's made of stronger materials.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Sableagle » Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:12 pm UTC

Mutex wrote:
addams wrote:There is no amount of Kerosene that will bring down an over engineered building.

The two planes that flew into the WTC were 767-200ERs, with a fuel capacity of 23,980 gallons. At the temperature kerosene burns, steel loses 80% of its strength.

Yes, great big, heavy, hollow aluminium things with 3 tonnes of titanium alloy under each wing (that somehow failed to even scratch the pentagon lawn or crack a single window), each hitting with kinetic energy equivalent to a 250 kg HE bomb going off.
Yeah, that could cause structural damage.
Non-uniform structural damage, but structural damage.
Thing is, according to witness testimony, video footage and the official analysis, they flew into and caused structural damage to buildings ... 1 and 2, wasn't it?
How many airliners hit building 7?
None?
Of all the kerosene that burned up in that huge fireball that's shown just after impact in all the video footage, how much poured into building 7?
So, like I said, bloody impressive that paperwork related to an ongoing investigation manages to burn through a building's structure uniformly enough and thoroughly enough and quickly enough to cause a neat collapse like that.
Maybe the investors whould have hired the builders who made the Grenfell tower, instead. That didn't collapse.
Neither did Amsterdam flats or the Belaire Apartments or the Empire State Building or that one building that got hit by a Learjet in Mexico ...
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby idonno » Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:43 pm UTC

Sableagle wrote:that somehow failed to even scratch the pentagon lawn or crack a single window

And this sight was actually specifically engineered to withstand bomb blasts.


Non-uniform structural damage, but structural damage.

If the vertical supporting structure gives out before the top's center of gravity pivots out far enough, the uniform damage is caused by the massive top chuck of the building dropping down on rest of the structure.

Sableagle wrote:Thing is, according to witness testimony, video footage and the official analysis, they flew into and caused structural damage to buildings ... 1 and 2, wasn't it?
How many airliners hit building 7?

So you think they crashed planes into both towers so they could secretly destroy building 7 in the aftermath? Sounds pretty unlikely to me.

Yes other building that have a different structure, different contents, and different debris impacts survived but that is a lot of differences to assert as some sort of proof and those are just off the top of my head.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Sableagle » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:17 pm UTC

idonno wrote:
Sableagle wrote:that somehow failed to even scratch the pentagon lawn or crack a single window

And this sight was actually specifically engineered to withstand bomb blasts.
The whole site, or that side of that site? The Pentagon's on the west side of a river. The plane flew downriver. Then it went out towards the coast and turned and came back from that side.

idonno wrote:So you think they crashed planes into both towers so they could secretly destroy building 7 in the aftermath? Sounds pretty unlikely to me.
Yeah, it seems unlikely.

Project For A New American Century: "Absent some catastrophic, galvanizing event like a new Pearl Harbor," or something very much like that, accompanied by a stylized drawing of the New York skyline with a crosshair on one of the WTC towers.

Guidance for Sheriffs on what to do after a terrorist attack, accompanied by a stylized drawing of the New York skyline with a crosshair on one of the WTC towers.

Different style, different sized sample of the skyline, same vertical compression of the WTC to make it fit the image.

Well, it's a famous skyline and of course they'd put the crosshair on one of the two tallest buildings.

Single frame from the video, at the moment of impact.

Stack those three images, scale the first two without changing aspect ratio, get the WTC tower lined up, scale the above-the-surroundings part of the WTC tower in the real image to fit that in the two drawings, ...

... and ask yourself whether it's any more unlikely that an unskilled kamikaze would just happen to hit the centres of both crosshairs, wings banked left to exactly match the tilt of both crosshairs, than that someone programming a kamikaze course into a drone airliner would aim it at a crosshair in an image he'd been told to make happen.
Zohar wrote:You don't know what you're talking about. Please spare me your quote sniping and general obliviousness.

CorruptUser wrote:Just admit that you were wrong ... and your entire life, cyberspace and meatspace both, would be orders of magnitude more enjoyable for you and others around you.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby EdgarJPublius » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:23 pm UTC

a neat collapse like that.


Severely damaged or destroyed more than a dozen other adjacent and nearby structures...
2,763 people died...
the large pile of debris burned for three months...
produced enormous clouds of dust that covered Manhattan for days...
likely the cause of many respiratory illnesses in lower Manhattan...
The cleanup and recovery process at the World Trade Center site took eight months...


are we even talking about the same event?

someone programming a kamikaze course into a drone airliner would aim it at a crosshair in an image he'd been told to make happen.


Insert Han Solo.jpg "That's not how the force works. That's not how any of this works!"
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I wrote:Does Space Teddy Roosevelt wrestle Space Bears and fight the Space Spanish-American War with his band of Space-volunteers the Space Rough Riders?

Yes.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby idonno » Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:32 am UTC

Sableagle wrote:and ask yourself whether it's any more unlikely that an unskilled kamikaze would just happen to hit the centres of both crosshairs, wings banked left to exactly match the tilt of both crosshairs, than that someone programming a kamikaze course into a drone airliner would aim it at a crosshair in an image he'd been told to make happen.


So you think, the biggest, most well planned conspiracy in history also operated so incompetently that it carefully programmed drones to match publicly available marketing material instead of the physics required to get optimal results and didn't even manage to plant any evidence implicating one of the nations targeted for retaliation. Also, even with current tech, you would probably just have someone flying it remotely because that is substantially easier and more adaptable.

Lots of actual analysis has been done on the physics of this event from people of various ideologies and they have found it completely possible. Finding unlikely matching coincidences after the fact is statistically very common. Keeping the amount of people that would have had to been involved quiet (especially when some of them were being actively screwed over by the administration on health coverage for resulting medical issues) is so insanely impossible that to believe it happened defies a basic understanding of human nature. If you don't understand this, I doubt anything anyone here says will convince you.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby ijuin » Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:01 am UTC

As the saying goes, three can keep a secret if two of them are dead. The more people who are in on a conspiracy, the more likely that some of them will blab.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Sableagle » Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:02 am UTC

So, ah, nobody believe Saddam had anything to do with 9/11, and nobody believes he had nukes, right?

Meanwhile, Nazis try to blame everything on Jews: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eoit7S-Q3-o

I'm an hour and a half in and not sure I can take any more.

(Obviously, that's a conspiracy, so you can't find that stuff online.)
Zohar wrote:You don't know what you're talking about. Please spare me your quote sniping and general obliviousness.

CorruptUser wrote:Just admit that you were wrong ... and your entire life, cyberspace and meatspace both, would be orders of magnitude more enjoyable for you and others around you.


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