Charlie Hebdo attack

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Derek
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Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:15 am UTC

Re: Charlie Hebdo attack

Postby Derek » Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:44 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:I mean the people protesting against Charlie Hebdo. 30,000 in Afghanistan for example.

Oh. Yeah, some people don't share western values and think that making an offensive joke is a much greater crime than massive human rights abuses.

I don't want to blame these people too much, because to some extent their just a product of the environment they grew up in. But I do want to be clear: These people are wrong, and dangerously wrong. It's people with this kind of attitude that allow groups like ISIS and the Taliban get as far as they have. We can only hope that future generations liberal minded and tolerant than these people.

BeerBottle
Posts: 221
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:26 pm UTC

Re: Charlie Hebdo attack

Postby BeerBottle » Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:47 pm UTC

Lucrece wrote:I mean, can any of their Muslim cartoons get as offensive as

Spoiler:
Image


?

These people mocked everything. I don't even trust those articles on the sacking of their employee considering said articles are aired by whom? Oh, right, progressive propaganda outlets that have been all to happy with floating the insinuation that the deaths were provoked. Certainly not NPR (which is still liberal, but with far higher standards) or The Economist. Anything from Salon or Kos? On the ignore list it goes.
The point you are not getting is the relative power and privilege of different groups in French society. Catholics have been the dominant religious and social group in France for well over a thousand years. While the rights of the church have surely been curtailed in the last century, there is no political party aiming to deport Catholics, certainly not one that got over 6 million votes in the last presidential election. Their traditional dress isn't legislated against. They do not occupy the lowest socio-economic groups, and do not suffer daily racism. All of this applies to Muslims in France. The rather crude images of Charlie Hebdo have a sightly different meaning when applied to a group well established in power than one one composed of poor, politically powerless migrants who are the enemy du jour and blamed for many problems in society. Especially when freedom is speech is applied so... unevenly, as EMTP linked to above.

And you know what, that doesn't mean it's ok to kill cartoonists.

Re CorruptUser comments on ISIS - you do realise that 99% of the people ISIS kill are muslims right? And as for protesting against them, how about fighting and defeating them, like muslims are actually doing right now:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... dance.html

Don't rush to write back, I know you will be out protesting decade long CIA torture of innocents, drone strikes against weddings in Pakistan and Afghanistan, and an unprovoked war of aggression against Iraq which killed 100,000 etc etc.. Oh, what's that? You aren't responsible for those actions by western powers and they don't define you, even though they were carried out by democratically elected (and then re-elected) governments and absolutely no repercussions have been visited on the perpetrators, whereas the actions of a handful of lunatics in Paris somehow define all 1.5 billion muslims?? Ok gotcha thanks for clearing that up.

EDIT: The correct Islamic response to insults to Muhammed is in the video below by a muslim who actually know what he is talking about and brings evidence to support his views(less than 5 minutes in duration):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6zuKbBlmRo

EDIT2: The same guy talking about Charlie Hebdo attacks, in case you wondered where the reasoned responses were. 30 mins, first 1:20 is in arabic. Well worth a watch to contrast what you see on the news.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzP8e9b_OT8
Last edited by BeerBottle on Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:27 am UTC, edited 2 times in total.

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Vahir
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Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Charlie Hebdo attack

Postby Vahir » Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:49 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:
Derek wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:At the risk of sounding like a massive tool, is there a reason there were hundreds of thousands protesting Charlie Hebdo but nothing similar protesting ISIS? Or was there but we didn't hear about it?

Probably mostly because ISIS is in a "far off" country (in an emotional and cultural sense), and ISIS's crimes, while far far worse than the Charlie Hebdo attacks, are not seen as a direct threat to western culture.

Also, what would the protesters be accomplishing by protesting ISIS? Protesting the Charlie Hebdo attacks shows solidarity with Hebdo, and that these attacks aren't going to dissuade the free expression of speech. But ISIS doesn't care what protesters in Europe might think about them and their goals, all of their goals are in the middle east. So to be meaningful, protesters would have to be targeting their own governments, asking for intervention, most likely military, against ISIS. But most people don't want military intervention against ISIS, so they're not going to protest for that.



I mean the people protesting against Charlie Hebdo. 30,000 in Afghanistan for example.


People protesting against Charlie Hebdo don't have any more of an obligation to protest against ISIL. I mean, why aren't you protesting ISIL right now?

Anyway, protesting against ISIL is like protesting against AIDS, except without the possibility of fundraising. What's the point?

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CorruptUser
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Re: Charlie Hebdo attack

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:01 am UTC

ISIS killed 5000 Yazidis. You mean they've killed 495,000 Muslims?

BeerBottle
Posts: 221
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:26 pm UTC

Re: Charlie Hebdo attack

Postby BeerBottle » Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:07 am UTC

good come back


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