2016 US Presidential Election

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Lazar
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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby Lazar » Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:04 pm UTC

Here's a piece by Glenn Greenwald about Hillary's long-standing commitment to right-wing foreign policy.
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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby cphite » Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:26 pm UTC

Lazar wrote:Here's a piece by Glenn Greenwald about Hillary's long-standing commitment to right-wing foreign policy.


What's amazing is how the article brushes past the most important bit of information:

The Saudi deal was one of dozens of arms sales approved by Hillary Clinton’s State Department that placed weapons in the hands of governments that had also donated money to the Clinton family philanthropic empire. … The State Department formally approved these arms sales even as many of the deals enhanced the military power of countries ruled by authoritarian regimes whose human rights abuses had been criticized by the department. Algeria, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the United Arab Emirates, Oman, and Qatar all donated to the Clinton Foundation and also gained State Department clearance to buy caches of American-made weapons even as the department singled them out for a range of alleged ills, from corruption to restrictions on civil liberties to violent crackdowns against political opponents.


This is much, much more than just her saying nice things about awful people. She cleared weapons sales to regimes identified as bad actors by her own State Department in exchange for donations.

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby LaserGuy » Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:46 pm UTC

I don't think anyone, Hillary supporter or not, would honestly expect her foreign policy to be anything but hawkish. The Neoconservative wing of the Republican party has more or less acknowledged that they will be campaigning for Hillary if it comes down to Hillary vs Trump.

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby morriswalters » Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:42 pm UTC

Hillary has history. Sanders can duck on these issues because he hasn't been a position to have to make these kind of choices. No administration would ever have had Sanders as a Secretary of State. In a general election when the issue arises, it won't be Democrat v Democrat, and his support of Castro will be a big issue. From parts of the electorate that see Castro as evil personified.

Had the congress, of who Sanders is a member, wanted those arms sales killed they would have died. But had they, someone else would have filled the gap. Europe, Russia or China. We have been using weapons to buy support for us for years. We were doing it before Clinton and we will be doing it after she's dead. And if Sanders is elected we will still do it. This is a Red Herring.

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby sardia » Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:22 pm UTC

It's time for the GOP drinking game!
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the ... eats-most/
Favorite tidbits are Cruz revealing his hidden ivy league credentials and Rubio is actually MORE robotic than people realize. The rules are simple, every time your team/candidate says their highlighted catchphrase, you drink. Then you pour a forty for all the fallen candidates as you watch the GOP commit suicide.

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby KnightExemplar » Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:26 pm UTC

Anyone else happy that Ted Cruz's phrase "The Gang of Eight" was 8th on his list?
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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby Lazar » Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:36 pm UTC

Let's dispel with this fiction that the Robo Rubio meme will ever stop being funny. It will never stop being funny.

Trump's style of expressionistic vagueness really is a wonder to behold, though. He's proving himself to be a master demagogue.
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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby sardia » Fri Mar 11, 2016 5:47 am UTC

Quiet debate this time around. The current theory is Trump wants to cruise, Cruz is happy with his current trajectory, Kasich is the nice guy finishing last, and Rubio was rebuked for being mean. Which would make sense...if it weren't so late into the season. It's already super tuesday round 2.

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby Lazar » Fri Mar 11, 2016 7:24 am UTC

Interestingly, Reince Priebus just said: "This party is going to support the nominee, whoever that is, 100%. There is no question about that. […] Can you agree with me, without question, that any one of these four gentlemen would be a world better than Hillary Clinton or a socialist in Bernie Sanders?"

And Cruz just said: "There are some in Washington who are having fever dreams of a brokered convention. They're unhappy with how the people are voting and they want to parachute in their favorite Washington candidate to be the nominee. I think that would be an absolute disaster. We need to respect the will of the voters."

These statements both hint in the direction of Trump being viable while still leaving some wiggle room for an uprising. Priebus says they must all support the nominee – but you're only the nominee after the convention has accepted you. And Cruz would clearly reject a parachute candidate, but it seems like he'd still be willing to grab the nomination himself if Trump only manages a plurality and not a majority in the primaries.
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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby jewish_scientist » Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:23 pm UTC

One thing I like about Trump is that he is helping to break down the "Us vs. Them" modern politics seems to have. 4 years ago a republican even hinting that they might support the Democratic nominee was political suicide. Now, its alright. Hopefully, this will lead to more cooperation, and less gridlock in the future.
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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby sardia » Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:24 pm UTC

jewish_scientist wrote:One thing I like about Trump is that he is helping to break down the "Us vs. Them" modern politics seems to have. 4 years ago a republican even hinting that they might support the Democratic nominee was political suicide. Now, its alright. Hopefully, this will lead to more cooperation, and less gridlock in the future.

How is us vs Muslims better than us vs Democrats? If anything, the old system is better because it was about policy differences, not demagogues.

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby SDK » Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:28 pm UTC

It's not. He's not saying "Support Trump! It will lead to cooperation!" - he's saying that the Republicans and Democrats have rallied against a common enemy: Trump.

This is like The Watchmen all over again.
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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby mcd001 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 3:38 pm UTC

SDK wrote:It's not. He's not saying "Support Trump! It will lead to cooperation!" - he's saying that the Republicans and Democrats have rallied against a common enemy: Trump.

The people have also rallied against a common enemy: Republicans and Democrats.

Hence the rise of Trump.

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby KnightExemplar » Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:17 pm UTC

SDK wrote:It's not. He's not saying "Support Trump! It will lead to cooperation!" - he's saying that the Republicans and Democrats have rallied against a common enemy: Trump.

This is like The Watchmen all over again.


Then why is Cruz in 2nd place? Cruz is the personification of "gridlock in Congress". It was Cruz who decided to filibuster when a government shutdown was around the corner.

Establishment Republicans want to believe that their base will allow them to govern. Unfortunately, their base wants either Trump (not a governor), or Cruz (gridlock madness). There's a reason why Bob Dole prefers Trump over Cruz.

This race is more than just Trump. Both Cruz AND Trump represent the anti-governing rebelling Tea Party extremists. On paper, it looks like Cruz is a better vote because he has actual Senate experience and has been involved in politics. But when you look at the record, Cruz never worked with anybody while in Congress: be it a Democrat or even with his own fellow Republicans (ex: passing a budget to stop a Government shutdown)

It was Ted Cruz who helped oust John Boehner from his position. It was Ted Cruz who led the charge against Kevin McCarthy (the expected successor to John Boehner). And when Paul Ryan finally broke down and accepted the position (never volunteering for the position, and he only accepted it on the condition that he continued to keep his family time to himself and doesn't need to sped as many hours as House Speaker), it was Ted Cruz who continued to criticize Paul Ryan at every step of the way.

Ted Cruz's politics are 100% not working with anybody. He complains and complains about everything, and creates a big stink in Congress... for what? Its like he doesn't see the big picture. And at no point did Ted Cruz offer any suggestions btw, he just complained and complained like a child.

I've been hard on Trump this whole thread, but Trump is probably > Cruz, as much as I'm loathe to admit it.
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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby leady » Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:26 pm UTC

Carson has endorsed Trump according to the bbc

Whatever you think of Trump, he is an impressive political operator - Cynically Carson is such a good identity politics shield from attacks on the moderate right (less so from the left)

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby KnightExemplar » Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:37 pm UTC

I think what worries me about seeing Trump and Cruz as #1 and #2 means that the Republican party is truly transforming into the party of "no". Its electorate is demanding it.
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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby leady » Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:54 pm UTC

Trump is only "no" on two (arguably one) issue - the rest is clearly up for negotiation. Its just those two are emotive points.

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby KnightExemplar » Fri Mar 11, 2016 6:16 pm UTC

By "no" I guess I need to be more specific and mean "No Compromise".
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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby ahammel » Fri Mar 11, 2016 6:34 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:By "no" I guess I need to be more specific and mean "No Compromise".

Not to mention "no" as in "nopenopenope".
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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby KnightExemplar » Fri Mar 11, 2016 7:19 pm UTC

Its happening.

Rubio's aide asks his supporters to vote for Kasich in Ohio.

This is the weirdest election cycle by far. Kasich might ask the same of his supporters in Florida. Both Ohio and Florida are winner-take-all states, and Kasich is the Governor of Ohio (so in theory, he should have an advantage), while Rubio is a Senator from Florida (home turf advantage as well).
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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby Thesh » Fri Mar 11, 2016 8:01 pm UTC

It's looking unlikely that Kasich will endorse Rubio in Florida, as Kasich's spokesman said they don't need Rubio's help in Ohio.
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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby duckshirt » Fri Mar 11, 2016 9:05 pm UTC

Thesh wrote:It's looking unlikely that Kasich will endorse Rubio in Florida, as Kasich's spokesman said they don't need Rubio's help in Ohio.

He should anyway, because Rubio winning Florida would take delegates from Trump thus increasing changes of brokered convention thus increasing Kasich's miniscule chances of getting nominated.
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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby Thesh » Fri Mar 11, 2016 9:20 pm UTC

It probably won't be enough in Florida, anyway. I mean, Trump still has an advantage in Florida even if 100% of Kasich voters switch to Rubio, and it's unlikely he can get 100% to switch to Rubio. Cruz and Kasich voters would both have to band together and back Rubio in order to defeat Trump in Florida.
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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby Lazar » Fri Mar 11, 2016 9:28 pm UTC

Plus, if the candidates start openly advocating strategic voting to bring down Trump, it might just further inflame his supporters.
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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby KnightExemplar » Fri Mar 11, 2016 9:44 pm UTC

Lazar wrote:Plus, if the candidates start openly advocating strategic voting to bring down Trump, it might just further inflame his supporters.


You said it in far fewer words than what I was attempting.
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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby sardia » Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:02 pm UTC

Lazar wrote:Plus, if the candidates start openly advocating strategic voting to bring down Trump, it might just further inflame his supporters.

Does that really matter? It's not like there are Trump supporters out there who only vote if kasich said to vote rubio in Florida.

PS Illinois is a big player here. If Trump wins here, it doesn't matter if Ohio goes to kasich.

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby ijuin » Sat Mar 12, 2016 4:27 am UTC

morriswalters wrote:Is there any evidence that prices of any drug in the US have anything to do with what a drug actually costs, even including research, during its period of exclusivity? Recent press suggests that drugs cost whatever companies think will return the highest profits. Which is good work if you can get it.


I have evidence that the price of my main anti-depressant, Venlafaxine (generic for Effexor) has absolutely nothing to do with the quantity of drug dispensed and everything to do with the number of patients ("customers"). My pharmacy charges (for patients whose medical care plans do not cover this drug) $105 for X capsules of 150 mg size, but $97 for the same number of capsules of 75 mg size. In other words, a customer pays about 90% as much money to get 50% as much of the product. The price charged has NOTHING to do with price-per-gram, and everything to do with what-can-we-get-a-customer-to-pay.

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby jseah » Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:57 am UTC

Unless the drug has a complicated non-scalable production process, the amount of active ingredient is not a good measure for how much a pill will cost to make. Production costs aren't a major part of a drug's cost in first place and batch sizes scale very well assuming it is manufactured through a chemical process.
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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby KnightExemplar » Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:07 pm UTC

Donald Trump's Chicago rally on 3/11 was cancelled due to potential violence.

CNN's youtube on the situation.

Trump has continued his rather rowdy style in today's rally, and continues to taunt protesters at his rallies.
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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby morriswalters » Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:12 pm UTC

ijuin wrote:My pharmacy charges (for patients whose medical care plans do not cover this drug) $105 for X capsules of 150 mg size, but $97 for the same number of capsules of 75 mg size.
I'm aware, and if you are a smart consumer you game the system by having the doctor prescribe the larger pill, and divide the pill into two doses. It shouldn't be that way, but is.

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby ucim » Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:23 pm UTC

morriswalters wrote:I'm aware, and if you are a smart consumer you game the system by having the doctor prescribe the larger pill, and divide the pill into two doses. It shouldn't be that way, but is.
Drug companies know this, and in some cases, design their pills so that cutting them makes them ineffective. I don't know how, but microbubbles that release some counteractive substance could do the trick.

They do it for just this reason.

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby morriswalters » Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:39 pm UTC

ucim wrote:Drug companies know this, and in some cases, design their pills so that cutting them makes them ineffective. I don't know how, but microbubbles that release some counteractive substance could do the trick.
If so I should be dead, since I'm doing it with two drugs. And have been. However if they are that foolish then eventually they will kill someone. And fraud is not a death penalty crime. And it can't be any worse for my health then a Republican ticket led by the Donald. I wonder if the Trump mob will crash the Republican Convention.

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby ucim » Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:46 pm UTC

morriswalters wrote:If so I should be dead, since I'm doing it with two drugs.
I was going to say that maybe you're not using the drugs for which this is the case, but then went to the web to find a link to an article describing what I was talking about. However, I didn't find anything supporting what I was saying. I remember some time ago reading about this, but perhaps I was mistaken in my interpretation. (There are some drugs that shouldn't be split, such as those with enteric coatings; perhaps the article was saying that drug makers are moving some drugs to that without needing to, in order to combat pill splitting, but I can't find it and perhaps it was tin hat material.)

Or, perhaps there was a protest and they stopped.

Or perhaps the internet lines to my house have been tapped by Big Phrama, conspiring to shield me from this information. Next they'll take away cat videos and we'll all be lost! I guess I should collect cats and super-8 film against that possibility. :)

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby KnightExemplar » Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:25 pm UTC

I heard a woman's scream while listening to today's Trump Rally. (Radio don't got camera footage) Curious, I took to youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06d4t1704N8

Wow. Trump remains completely unapologetic, and the crowd's "Kill him" and "Kick his ass" are heard through the crappy cellphone camera. Trump is playing with fire now.

I can't condone the protesters at these events, but I understand why they're doing this. Trump's persona is to never back down from this sort of event however. But now that protesters are smelling a weakness: a rally has been completely cancelled because of protests. The protesters now seek to disrupt the rallies to a strong degree, and now that they have one success they will continue to interrupt Donald in this manner until they are heard.

On the flip-side, It seems like these protests are only serving to solidify the crowd's support of Donald.

The other Republican candidates are quick to disavow Trump here. Cruz, Rubio, and Kasich all directly pin the blame on Donald's language in this morning's statements.

Clinton was... a bit weird in her response (she channeled Charleston South Carolina), I wonder if she hasn't had enough sleep. Still, Clinton was given an easy layup to attack Trump but declined to take it. Dunno what to think here: protesters at the Democrats rallies have stopped interrupted both Clinton (IIRC, Sanders as well), so maybe Clinton is not looking at the protesters with a bit of disdain now.

Protests at Clinton seem to be for groups who just want Clinton / Sanders to acknowledge them. A lot more peaceful and respectful from both sides (Clinton acknowledges the protester, shifts the discussion in the way before security finally escorts the protester out).
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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby CorruptUser » Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:06 am UTC

ucim wrote:
morriswalters wrote:I'm aware, and if you are a smart consumer you game the system by having the doctor prescribe the larger pill, and divide the pill into two doses. It shouldn't be that way, but is.
Drug companies know this, and in some cases, design their pills so that cutting them makes them ineffective. I don't know how, but microbubbles that release some counteractive substance could do the trick.

They do it for just this reason.

Jose


Or just make the drugs in capsule form.

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby Lazar » Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:36 am UTC

Hillary's been making one gaffe after another lately. First she angered the LGBT community by falsely implying that the Reagans were anything but willfully deficient in their response to AIDS, and then she falsely implied that Sanders had been absent from the health care debate in the 90s, even though he had been an active advocate of universal health care and she had even thanked him for it.

This article describes a meeting between Bernie and Hillary in 1993 that perfectly encapsulates the "No We Can't" attitude that she's always taken:

They got their meeting at the White House that month, and the two doctors laid out the case for single-payer to the first lady. "She said, 'You make a convincing case, but is there any force on the face of the earth that could counter the hundreds of millions of the dollars the insurance industry would spend fighting that?'" recalled Himmelstein. "And I said, "How about the president of the United States actually leading the American people?' and she said, 'Tell me something real.'"

Of course we all remember the realistic success that was the Clinton health care plan.
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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby duckshirt » Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:30 am UTC

Well, Hillary's quote from the 90's is pretty much right. There are alternative solutions to single-payer that could guarantee health care without completely destroying an industry overnight that employees 13 million people, as seen in many other countries. Countries with single-payer health care established it before there was a big private market. As successful and/or unsuccessful as Clintoncare or The Affordable Care Act have been, they are still more real than Berniecare.
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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby KnightExemplar » Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:05 pm UTC

Trump threatens to send his supporters to Bernie rallies, because Trump thinks that Bernie is messing with Trump's rallies.

And now Trump proves himself utterly insane. I guess Cruz FTW... :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: I was at least hoping that Trump has been acting this whole time, now I don't think he is.

Also, Trump thinks the protesters are from ISIS

Trump claims to be looking into paying the legal fees for the man who sucker-punched the man at a rally. More details, see this story. Trump truly has no moral compass.
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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby Weeks » Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:48 pm UTC

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby PeteP » Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:52 pm UTC

Look if you USAians actually make that guy president I will be at once quite amused at how ridiculous it is and horrified.


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