Trump presidency

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Koa
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Koa » Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:08 pm UTC

pogrmman wrote:However, I'm also sick of reading all the pieces constantly parroting about how bad of a president he is and how America made a terrible mistake. They never offer any solutions, and they basically just go in spirals complaining. I mean, it's hard to come up with a solid plan to loosen the grip the Republican Party has (not that every Republican is bad! -- I even voted for a couple of them) on the federal government.

I think the hold the party has over the people is more dangerous, and the free press has interests in breaking that hold. When the people are willing to believe alternative facts (or even turn away to the fact that it's coming out of the white house) then the country can descend into the authoritarianism these forces are pushing. Solutions are up to congress, and while the democratic congress is powerless right now I think they are still begrudgingly working on solutions.

How do you report on Trump without seemingly like you have an agenda to make him appear bad? It's honesty or it's looney tunes. BBC is fake news, AP is fake news. "Any negative polls are fake news." All negative press is manufactured from MSM, and the MSM is nothing but lies. Trump is really as great as he says he is, and whenever it might seem that he's not, he's so far ahead of us playing 4D chess that he actually won bigly. Not all supporters are willing to take that leap of logic, so when it becomes the only excuse it exposes the schism between those who are willing to walk off that cliff. Trump has had almost zero accountability among his supporters, but it seems some doubts are taking hold. It's moving in the right direction for now.

Mike Cernovich (altright spin DJ making 6 figures at home) did it again recently with the healthcare bill: the healthcare bill failure is a big win for Trump because it's bad for Paul Ryan, who would have been a major obstruction in the approval of the border wall. Also, Paul Ryan is protecting a pedophile or something. If rape is the whistle to the left then pedophilia is to the right. I'm happy that they're going after Ryan though, especially because it was clear that Trump was trying to ensure the bill's success. It seems that you can, after all, sometimes check yourself when you mistakenly believe your pieces can make moves in an extra dimension.

They're making a lot of money filling the demand of people who are desperate for validation, and so they have every incentive to continue. Then the party is making a lot of money behind the smoke screen, so they have every incentive to facilitate it. It's a feedback loop of the altright media throwing softballs for Trump to hit so that supporters feel like they're represented and that their manufactured fears are acknowledged. The investigations are also complicating everything. Ideally the bullshit becomes more and more fringe, because it's not going away anytime soon. Maybe the party will come back down to Earth as a result.

There's going to be people who hate Trump and can't articulate why other than tribalism, but I'll take that over the worship tribalism under these circumstances. One is mildly disappointing, the other is dangerous. You better believe the propaganda machine will throttle up again come midterms if they still have a similar hold over the voting population as they do right now. These systems have demonstrated how effective they are at suddenly tipping the scales. It's very strange just how well the systems complement each other to naturally create results.

Liri wrote:Yeah, I don't know why the Democrats threw their weight behind trying to deny DeVos rather than Sessions.

They went after the weakest target, and they still failed. Sessions didn't have an easy time either but there was no way to block these key players. Sessions was much more valuable to the administration, at least until the point when he decided to recuse himself. They would have greased every wheel.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby The Great Hippo » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:19 pm UTC

Koa wrote:How do you report on Trump without seemingly like you have an agenda to make him appear bad? It's honesty or it's looney tunes.
This to me is the weirdest part of Trump coverage: Simply covering the things Trump says and does qualifies as negative coverage of Trump.

And you just know that a few years from now -- presuming we all survive this Presidency -- some major magazine or media outlet is going to do an interview with Trump, portraying him as this controversial, polarizing figure who transformed the landscape of American politics -- while leaving out the bits where he called for military action against the families of Muslim terrorists.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby ivnja » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:42 pm UTC

Trump signed an executive order today to try to begin dismantling the Clean Power Plan, which NPR calls a centerpiece of Obama's environmental legacy and his "signature climate measure that restricts greenhouse gas emissions from coal-fired power plants."

One effect of the order is apparently to reopen federal land to new coal leases, but a Reuters article points out that the major players in the coal industry already have on average well over a decade's digging worth of reserve land already, so that part of the order won't really change things much.

I'm still reading into what this all will really mean, so does anyone else have any thoughts on the concrete practical effects in both the short and longer (at least the length of the Trump presidency) terms of rolling back these sorts of regulations?
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Liri » Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:37 am UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:
Koa wrote:How do you report on Drumpf without seemingly like you have an agenda to make him appear bad? It's honesty or it's looney tunes.
This to me is the weirdest part of Drumpf coverage: Simply covering the things Drumpf says and does qualifies as negative coverage of Drumpf.

And you just know that a few years from now -- presuming we all survive this Presidency -- some major magazine or media outlet is going to do an interview with Drumpf, portraying him as this controversial, polarizing figure who transformed the landscape of American politics -- while leaving out the bits where he called for military action against the families of Muslim terrorists.

Presuming he isn't in jail.

edit: I realized I still have the 'make donald drumpf again' extension still installed and it auto-changes the text when I quote someone. wild.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby jewish_scientist » Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:50 am UTC

Does anyone know if Trump has released his tax returns yet? The last I heard he still refuses to let the public know about his personal finances.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Whizbang » Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:19 am UTC

sardia wrote:Trump continues to write off more losses in newly leaked 2005 tax return.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/14/us/p ... taxes.html
The White House responded without even waiting for the show to air, issuing a statement that seemed to confirm the authenticity of the forms even as it defended Mr. Trump and assailed the network for publicizing them. “You know you are desperate for ratings when you are willing to violate the law to push a story about two pages of tax returns from over a decade ago,” the statement said.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby jewish_scientist » Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:52 pm UTC

In the end, he had to write a check for $2,450,597, including penalties and interest for late payment.

That one sentence angers me more than anything else in the article. I mean, seriously! Trump could buy an accounting company to do nothing but his taxes, and yet he payed them LATE! Is he so unconcerned with taxes that he, nor anyone managing his finances, cares enough to check when they are do? I mean... It just... *sigh*.

I take it we still have no ideas about his taxes were for the past year or two.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Liri » Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:02 pm UTC

No. And it's unlikely an IRS employee will be able to do anything - if one of them accesses someone's records inappropriately, it sends out an immediate alert. A subpoena is probably the only way.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:28 pm UTC

jewish_scientist wrote:
In the end, he had to write a check for $2,450,597, including penalties and interest for late payment.

That one sentence angers me more than anything else in the article. I mean, seriously! Trump could buy an accounting company to do nothing but his taxes, and yet he payed them LATE! Is he so unconcerned with taxes that he, nor anyone managing his finances, cares enough to check when they are do? I mean... It just... *sigh*.

I take it we still have no ideas about his taxes were for the past year or two.

He has a lengthy, documented history of paying people late or, seemingly when possible, not at all as retribution for violation of contract. The violations range from... well, legitimate complaints to more nebulous and harder to define "unsatisfied with work" complaints.

This often leads to lengthy court battles. I do not know the average outcome.

I do know that if I were a business owner and a Trump associated brand wished to hire me, I would decline. The risk of lack of payment over some perceived slight - even after corrected - is too great.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Whizbang » Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:15 pm UTC

C'mon. Give the guy a chance.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby duodecimus » Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:25 pm UTC

I've recently starting seeing comments along the lines of 'Trump broke the law in office'. To my fairly limited comedy-news derived knowledge he hasn't done a whole lot of anything at all.

Did I miss something somewhere, or is this just people parroting stuff?

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Liri » Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:36 pm UTC

Probably referring to ethics violations with regards to his hotels (specifically the one in the old Washington post office), many of which don't, or only uncertainly, apply to the president.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby pogrmman » Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:35 am UTC

Koa wrote:I think the hold the party has over the people is more dangerous, and the free press has interests in breaking that hold. When the people are willing to believe alternative facts (or even turn away to the fact that it's coming out of the white house) then the country can descend into the authoritarianism these forces are pushing. Solutions are up to congress, and while the democratic congress is powerless right now I think they are still begrudgingly working on solutions.

How do you report on Trump without seemingly like you have an agenda to make him appear bad? It's honesty or it's looney tunes. BBC is fake news, AP is fake news. "Any negative polls are fake news." All negative press is manufactured from MSM, and the MSM is nothing but lies. Trump is really as great as he says he is, and whenever it might seem that he's not, he's so far ahead of us playing 4D chess that he actually won bigly. Not all supporters are willing to take that leap of logic, so when it becomes the only excuse it exposes the schism between those who are willing to walk off that cliff. Trump has had almost zero accountability among his supporters, but it seems some doubts are taking hold. It's moving in the right direction for now.


I do agree that the constant media coverage is moving in the right direction -- my post was more me complaining about how terrible all of the news is It's shocking to me that no matter what happens, it seems to be bad.

I dunno... I guess it's just that I'm horrified that we have a president like this, and I got sick of reading about it and wished I had time to get over it. Fortunately, I'm just coming back to civilization from a glorious few days in the wilderness. I've had more time to process it now.

I do agree that the almost cult-like following is really, really worrisome to me. It's just so wrong -- it isn't something that should belong in American politics in my opinion. Then again, I'm also the kind of idealist that hopes that everybody who votes does a lot of research on all the candidates and picks the one who most aligns with them...

It's probably more that I'm just fed up with partisanship -- if both sides sit in their corner whining about how the other side is so terrible and that nothing should be done to help them -- we won't make any progress towards making this country a better place.

I am glad at how much bipartisan opposition there was to the new health bill -- The Affordable Care Act isn't perfect, but it is better than what that bill was proposing.

It'll be interesting to see how the budget plays out.

I don't know where I'm going with this, so I'll probably just end it here.

TL;DR: Mostly me explaining how annoyed I am with the current system. No solutions here, nothing concrete. Just a rambling thing.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Angua » Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:54 am UTC

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Koa » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:26 am UTC

pogrmman wrote:stuff
It's certainly exhausting in a lot of ways. I've heard it expressed a few times before but I don't have as much of a problem with the partisanship atmosphere. Radicals and horeshoe theory, opposition tactics and hypocrisy, intolerant tolerance and intolerance -- it's ignorable once identified. I think what people mean though is the effect of the right trying to push centrist or apolitical positions out of the picture using many different tactics like, for instance, a wide-scale sort of "teach the controversy" to force radical ideas into the discourse. With immigration, it's either you're for "moderate" extreme vetting or "extreme" open borders. Except, the country does have pretty extreme vetting already, and no one is actually pushing for an open border policy. "Legal immigrants are okay, but it's the illegals..." These sort of tactics have gradually poisoned discourse in many areas and created the impenetrable partisan atmosphere. It's like a new sort of propaganda atmosphere. It's meant to trick many and disillusion the rest. I still find myself adapting to deal with it. I'm not quite sure how I should be speaking about it.

How well do you think someone does their research when they're willing to believe the MSM is fake news? There are plenty of supporters who will claim to have done a lot of research, it just might well involve a breitbart search result or a facebook feed.

I wouldn't call the opposition to the bill bipartisan. I think it was going to be a public disaster and constituents would have claimed their seats for the most part.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:12 pm UTC


Not to worry, this is a witch hunt, so immunity should be sought...
Edit
NY times cautions that it isn't an admission of guilt. It's too early for that, it's merely good lawyering.

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Re: Sonic drive-ins expanding to all 50 States

Postby elasto » Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:59 pm UTC

Theodore Allan Rumpshaker III left the Oval Office on Friday without signing the executive orders that he was there to announce.

"Jobs and wealth have been stripped from our country," he said before exiting.

He continued walking as a reporter shouted questions about whether Mr Trump was directing his administration to grant immunity to fired adviser Michael Flynn.

Amid journalists' confusion, Vice-President A Wet Rag Stuffed Into a Tailpipe picked up the orders from the table, and they were signed in another room.

lol...

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Re: Sonic drive-ins expanding to all 50 States

Postby Mutex » Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:05 pm UTC

What were the actual orders he's signed? I can't find a story mentioning that...

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Re: Sonic drive-ins expanding to all 50 States

Postby Thesh » Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:15 pm UTC

Honesty replaced by greed, they gave us the reason to fight and bleed
They try to torch our faith and hope, spit at our presence and detest our goals

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Re: Sonic drive-ins expanding to all 50 States

Postby jewish_scientist » Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:59 pm UTC

I know this is a weird question; what is the title of this thread?

P.S.

'This is a blatant witch hunt! The only result these corrupt politicians want from this unethical, resource-wasting excuse for an investigation is the smearing of a legitimate, democratic election's result! I refuse to have anything to do with these childish inquiries until I know that I will not personally suffer from them!'
Last edited by jewish_scientist on Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:28 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sonic drive-ins expanding to all 50 States

Postby ucim » Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:21 pm UTC

Look, give the guy some slack. He was elected to Drain The Swamp. What better way to do this than to fill it with alligators?

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Angua » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:19 pm UTC

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:04 pm UTC

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... 6MhDfvoNeg
Trumps proposed budget cuts would hurt his supporters the most, but they are willing to take the 'chance' that Trump knows what he's doing.
This level of desperation? Stupidity? Makes it harder for Democrats to come back.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Liri » Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:30 pm UTC

Anger that those homo-lovers help them out. And bone-headedness about not admitting to making a very unfortunate vote. I was gonna share two NYT articles that make the same points. It's like they forget that they, too, make use of government-funded programs when election season rolls around.

The NYT article cited a poll that only 3% of the voters they talked to would change their vote if they could, and only 1% would change it to Hilldawg. It does make things seem difficult.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby SDK » Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:40 pm UTC

Liri wrote:The NYT article cited a poll that only 3% of the voters they talked to would change their vote if they could, and only 1% would change it to Hilldawg. It does make things seem difficult.

There's a lot of room between Trump and the-worst-possible-president-you-could-possibly-imagine. Probably most of the 97% there still think Clinton would have been somewhere in between.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:01 pm UTC

SDK wrote:
Liri wrote:The NYT article cited a poll that only 3% of the voters they talked to would change their vote if they could, and only 1% would change it to Hilldawg. It does make things seem difficult.

There's a lot of room between Trump and the-worst-possible-president-you-could-possibly-imagine. Probably most of the 97% there still think Clinton would have been somewhere in between.

Trump already agreed and will get the a number one priority for the GOP in, the courts. Trump will pick anyone the Republicans want for scotus and over half the current judges. That means without congress or states weighing in the law just got worse for everyone. Contract law gets harsher, campaign reform, police brutality, government overreach like police powers. Trump is a gift horse in that respect. The only problem is he has the same grasp of policy as a horse and shits as much from both ends.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby SDK » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:18 pm UTC

Uh huh. Trump sucks, the Republican party sucks... No argument here. "Worse for everyone" is likely accurate, unless you also consider it good that people can choose what's best for themselves. I'm assuming you do believe that's a good thing, and Trump was chosen, so...
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Dark567 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:48 pm UTC

SDK wrote:
Liri wrote:The NYT article cited a poll that only 3% of the voters they talked to would change their vote if they could, and only 1% would change it to Hilldawg. It does make things seem difficult.

There's a lot of room between Trump and the-worst-possible-president-you-could-possibly-imagine.
Maybe I lack the imagination but I can't imagine someone being that much worse. Sure you can point to dictators... but if Trump had the ability and wouldn't run into political bumpers he'd totally act like an authoritarian. The main reason Trump isn't as bad as imagine is the political processes are stopping him, not anything to do with the quality of his character which is just about as bad as I can possibly imagine.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Thesh » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:50 pm UTC

SDK wrote:unless you also consider it good that people can choose what's best for themselves. I'm assuming you do believe that's a good thing, and Trump was chosen, so...


Can they? The Republican party strategy has been to make sure people don't have enough information to vote in their best interest.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby SDK » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:58 pm UTC

Thesh wrote:Can they? The Republican party strategy has been to make sure people don't have enough information to vote in their best interest.

Huge and serious problem, for sure, but your response to that isn't going to be to take away the people's right to vote.

Dark567 wrote:Maybe I lack the imagination but I can't imagine someone being that much worse. Sure you can point to dictators... but if Trump had the ability and wouldn't run into political bumpers he'd totally act like an authoritarian. The main reason Trump isn't as bad as imagine is the political processes are stopping him, not anything to do with the quality of his character which is just about as bad as I can possibly imagine.

I was considering the impression of the people who voted for him when I said that. If you agree with some of his choices, and disagree with others, and are okay with his being a terrible person in general, then there's a lot of room before he becomes as bad as you think Clinton would have been.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Dark567 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:59 pm UTC

Thesh wrote:
SDK wrote:unless you also consider it good that people can choose what's best for themselves. I'm assuming you do believe that's a good thing, and Trump was chosen, so...


Can they? The Republican party strategy has been to make sure people don't have enough information to vote in their best interest.
I don't know how true that is...


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/01/opin ... yalty.html
Spoiler:
NYT wrote:Judy Banks, a 70-year-old struggling to get by, said she voted for Trump because “he was talking about getting rid of those illegals.” But Banks now finds herself shocked that he also has his sights on funds for the Labor Department’s Senior Community Service Employment Program, which is her lifeline. It pays senior citizens a minimum wage to hold public service jobs.

“This program makes sense,” said Banks, who was placed by the program into a job as a receptionist for a senior nutrition program. Banks said she depends on the job to make ends meet, and for an excuse to get out of the house.

“If I lose this job,” she said, “I’ll sit home and die.”

Yet she said she might still vote for Trump in 2020. And that’s a refrain I heard over and over. Some of the loyalty seemed to be grounded in resentment at Democrats for mocking Trump voters as dumb bigots, some from a belief that budgets are complicated, and some from a sense that it’s too early to abandon their man. They did say that if jobs didn’t reappear, they would turn against him.
These people often know that Trump is working against their own interests, but will still vote for him anyway. This woman is saying Trump could cut a program that could eventually result in her death and she would still be willing to vote for him.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:03 pm UTC

Dark567 wrote:
Thesh wrote:
SDK wrote:unless you also consider it good that people can choose what's best for themselves. I'm assuming you do believe that's a good thing, and Trump was chosen, so...


Can they? The Republican party strategy has been to make sure people don't have enough information to vote in their best interest.
I don't know how true that is...


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/01/opin ... yalty.html
Spoiler:
NYT wrote:Judy Banks, a 70-year-old struggling to get by, said she voted for Trump because “he was talking about getting rid of those illegals.” But Banks now finds herself shocked that he also has his sights on funds for the Labor Department’s Senior Community Service Employment Program, which is her lifeline. It pays senior citizens a minimum wage to hold public service jobs.

“This program makes sense,” said Banks, who was placed by the program into a job as a receptionist for a senior nutrition program. Banks said she depends on the job to make ends meet, and for an excuse to get out of the house.

“If I lose this job,” she said, “I’ll sit home and die.”

Yet she said she might still vote for Trump in 2020. And that’s a refrain I heard over and over. Some of the loyalty seemed to be grounded in resentment at Democrats for mocking Trump voters as dumb bigots, some from a belief that budgets are complicated, and some from a sense that it’s too early to abandon their man. They did say that if jobs didn’t reappear, they would turn against him.
These people often know that Trump is working against their own interests, but will still vote for him anyway. This woman is saying Trump could cut a program that could eventually result in her death and she would still be willing to vote for him.

To be fair, proposed budgets are all talk. If you look at what's actually gonna happen, the defenders will fight for the scraps and whoever has the least representation will get the short end.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Thesh » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:18 pm UTC

Dark567 wrote:
Thesh wrote:
SDK wrote:unless you also consider it good that people can choose what's best for themselves. I'm assuming you do believe that's a good thing, and Trump was chosen, so...


Can they? The Republican party strategy has been to make sure people don't have enough information to vote in their best interest.
I don't know how true that is...


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/01/opin ... yalty.html


Given this quote, I would have to say yes it is true.

Payton suggested that if the government wants to cut budgets, it should target “Obama phones” provided to low-income Americans.


The "Obamaphone" stuff was the result of a propaganda campaign to tell people government is wasteful so that they could get the government to cut programs like the ones that they are upset about.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Chen » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:40 pm UTC

Thesh wrote:Can they? The Republican party strategy has been to make sure people don't have enough information to vote in their best interest.


I'd think its more the political "only talk about what you're going to give them rather than what gets taken away". No one campaigns on raising taxes to pay for all sorts of new things, they just talk about the new things. Similarly, you talk about cutting taxes and not about all the services that are going to get cut to allow taxes to be cut.

Alternatively you focus on things that rally your base, despite them having practically no impact on the lives of the people in question but that are emotionally charged issues. People focus on these pointless issues and then get surprised when things they take for granted get cut because no one talked about it during the election. This is fairly standard politicking though and not something that is generally party dependent (or even country dependent).

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby cphite » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:42 pm UTC

Dark567 wrote:
SDK wrote:
Liri wrote:The NYT article cited a poll that only 3% of the voters they talked to would change their vote if they could, and only 1% would change it to Hilldawg. It does make things seem difficult.

There's a lot of room between Trump and the-worst-possible-president-you-could-possibly-imagine.
Maybe I lack the imagination but I can't imagine someone being that much worse. Sure you can point to dictators... but if Trump had the ability and wouldn't run into political bumpers he'd totally act like an authoritarian. The main reason Trump isn't as bad as imagine is the political processes are stopping him, not anything to do with the quality of his character which is just about as bad as I can possibly imagine.


Even if we disregard people like Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, and the like who have murdered millions, that just doesn't hold water.

So far he's made some really stupid policy decisions that are based on bigotry, and he's definitely throwing a shady vibe when it comes to business. But he still has a long, long way to go before being called the "worst imaginable" even compared to modern leaders who are still in power. Even if we ignore dictators like Kim Jong Un - who I assure you is worse.

Putin is arguably worse, both in terms of policy and shadiness, and there have been literally dozens of murders of political opponents on top of that. So basically, imagine Trump but with a KBG style murder squad.

I would say that Nicolas Maduro of Venezuela is worse; their economy is absolutely imploding and his entire agenda consists of eliminating any legal means of removing him from office. His predecessor Hugo Chavez was also arguably worse; it was his policies and personal greed that caused the implosion to begin with.

Trump is a bigot, and an asshole, and a really unqualified leader; but to suggest that he's the worst imaginable requires ignoring some very bad and very non-imaginary examples.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Thesh » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:56 pm UTC

Chen wrote:
Thesh wrote:Can they? The Republican party strategy has been to make sure people don't have enough information to vote in their best interest.


I'd think its more the political "only talk about what you're going to give them rather than what gets taken away". No one campaigns on raising taxes to pay for all sorts of new things, they just talk about the new things. Similarly, you talk about cutting taxes and not about all the services that are going to get cut to allow taxes to be cut.

Alternatively you focus on things that rally your base, despite them having practically no impact on the lives of the people in question but that are emotionally charged issues. People focus on these pointless issues and then get surprised when things they take for granted get cut because no one talked about it during the election. This is fairly standard politicking though and not something that is generally party dependent (or even country dependent).


Well, take immigration - it's emotional because Republicans are telling them that all of their problems are because of foreigners, rather than the fact that Republican policies are failing them. The GOP knows their policies are the problem, but they deliberately mislead the people for the sake of getting them to vote against their interest.
Honesty replaced by greed, they gave us the reason to fight and bleed
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Puppyclaws » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:46 pm UTC

cphite wrote:
Dark567 wrote:
SDK wrote:
Liri wrote:The NYT article cited a poll that only 3% of the voters they talked to would change their vote if they could, and only 1% would change it to Hilldawg. It does make things seem difficult.

There's a lot of room between Trump and the-worst-possible-president-you-could-possibly-imagine.
Maybe I lack the imagination but I can't imagine someone being that much worse. Sure you can point to dictators... but if Trump had the ability and wouldn't run into political bumpers he'd totally act like an authoritarian. The main reason Trump isn't as bad as imagine is the political processes are stopping him, not anything to do with the quality of his character which is just about as bad as I can possibly imagine.


Even if we disregard people like Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, and the like who have murdered millions, that just doesn't hold water.

So far he's made some really stupid policy decisions that are based on bigotry, and he's definitely throwing a shady vibe when it comes to business. But he still has a long, long way to go before being called the "worst imaginable" even compared to modern leaders who are still in power. Even if we ignore dictators like Kim Jong Un - who I assure you is worse.

Putin is arguably worse, both in terms of policy and shadiness, and there have been literally dozens of murders of political opponents on top of that. So basically, imagine Trump but with a KBG style murder squad.

I would say that Nicolas Maduro of Venezuela is worse; their economy is absolutely imploding and his entire agenda consists of eliminating any legal means of removing him from office. His predecessor Hugo Chavez was also arguably worse; it was his policies and personal greed that caused the implosion to begin with.

Trump is a bigot, and an asshole, and a really unqualified leader; but to suggest that he's the worst imaginable requires ignoring some very bad and very non-imaginary examples.


I think the point being made is that those terrible leaders are so terrible because they are in power in systems that allow them to be so terrible. Kim Jong Un couldn't do what he does anywhere else; it is the system that exists in NK that allowed him to rise to power and be totally unquestioned. If Trump ruled over a country with a system like NK has in place, I could imagine he would be worse than Kim Jong Un. Putin is the only example you come up with that I would say is arguably "worse," because he has engineered a terrifying nightmare state all on his own rather than inheriting one, but he's certainly better at achieving what he wants than Trump is.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby jewish_scientist » Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:27 pm UTC

Trump thinks his budget is compassionate. In my college ethics class we had to write a paper on this statement and the press conference in general. Here are the 2 most relevant paragraphs for anyone who cares:

Spoiler:
The place to start in this analysis is clearly from a libertarian perspective. Libertarians hold that the government has three, and only three, functions: the protection of its citizen’s bodies, the protection of citizen’s property, and then enforcement of contracts. Tax money spent on anything else is a violation of the citizen’s rights. Refusal to fund welfare programs is compassionate to a libertarian because it ends the governments violation of citizen’s rights. This also explains why the money not being spent on welfare programs is being transferred to the military's budget. This is a logically consistent way to view this new budget as compassionate and there is evidence that this is the philosophy that is behind the budget: “When you start looking at places that we reduce spending, one of the questions we asked was, can we really continue to ask a coal miner in West Virginia or a single mother in Detroit to pay for these programs? The answer was no.”

However, Mulvaney completely destroys, without any shred of a doubt, the concept that this budget is based on libertarian principle by saying, “Look, we’re not gonna ask you for your hard-earned money… unless we can guarantee to you that that money is actually being used in a proper function.” In addition, the White House has reiterated that spending on welfare programs are being cut because they have, “failed to meet their objectives.” In other words, if we cut the budget of a welfare program, then that program was preforming poorly. Elementary logic can be used to show that this statement implies that if a welfare program was preforming well, then we could not cut its budget. There is clearly a valid conditional within the logic behind Trump’s budget that results in the government spending money on welfare programs. Remember, libertarianism says that under no conditions should the government be spending money on welfare programs. Therefore, it is clear that Trump’s philosophy must either not be based on libertarianism, or not be logically consistent.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Angua » Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:04 pm UTC

[url]The trump administration wants DHS to be able to demand your passwords for all social media sites before giving visas.[/url]
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Zohar » Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:13 pm UTC

Don't know which link you were looking at, but this is another one discussing this.

I mean, it's only a temporary thing until the businessmen who own the government happen to also own social media websites and then they just share stuff without even asking.
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