Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

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Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby Infornographer » Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:45 am UTC

You can find the entire article here. I have reproduced the most critical sections below. All emphasis mine.

USAToday wrote:Majorities of young people in America describe modern-day Christianity as judgmental, hypocritical and anti-gay. What's more, many Christians don't even want to call themselves "Christian" because of the baggage that accompanies the label... The findings were based on surveys of a sample of 867 young people. From that total, researchers reported responses from 440 non-Christians and 305 active churchgoers.

The vast majority of non-Christians — 91% — said Christianity had an anti-gay image, followed by 87% who said it was judgmental and 85% who said it was hypocritical.

Such views were held by smaller percentages of the active churchgoers, but the faith still did not fare well: 80% agreed with the anti-gay label, 52% said Christianity is judgmental, and 47% declared it hypocritical.

Kinnaman said one of the biggest surprises for researchers was the extent to which respondents — one in four non-Christians — said that modern-day Christianity was no longer like Jesus.

...

The research reported in UnChristian reflected larger Barna Group studies with about 1,000 respondents as well as the specific study of young people. The sample of 440 non-Christians had a margin of error of plus or minus 5 percentage points and the sample of 305 active churchgoers had a margin of error of plus or minus 6 percentage points.


I had indeed noticed more people calling themselves "Christ-followers" or simply saying "I follow Jesus," but I did not link it with refusal to identify as Christian. Whatever the case, I can't help but wonder how this will affect the "Christ-following" youth in the United States. Your thoughts?

EDIT: Refined selection from article in quote.
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Re: Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby Amicitia » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:23 am UTC

I consider judgmental a good attribute, and hypocritical much maligned one; sometimes, it is inappropriate to be gay.
Last edited by Amicitia on Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:43 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby ZeroSum » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:34 am UTC

Amicitia wrote:sometimes, it's inappropriate to be gay.
Yeah, like at a funeral. People get upset when you're acting all cheery at their funeral.

Seriously though, when is it inappropriate to be gay? Excepting societies that stigmatize homosexuality that's senseless. Replace the word "gay" with "straight" and you'll quickly realize how ridiculous that sounds.

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Re: Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby Belial » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:37 am UTC

Amicitia wrote: sometimes, it's inappropriate to be gay.


:shock:
:x
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Re: Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby Flying Betty » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:38 am UTC

Amicitia wrote:sometimes, it's inappropriate to be gay.

Perhaps in the Vatican (see: Respecting Others' Beliefs)
Otherwise, nope.
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Re: Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby damienthebloody » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:41 am UTC

I'm sorry, Amicitia, but when on earth is it inappropriate to be gay?
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Re: Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby Amicitia » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:46 am UTC

damienthebloody wrote:I'm sorry, Amicitia, but when on earth is it inappropriate to be gay?

As someone noted, at funerals. However, I'm pretty sure it's inappropriate to be Amicitia, at all times, and in all places. :D

I find nothing wrong with hypocrisy, and being judgmental is what debates are all about.
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Re: Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby Alisto » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:47 am UTC

Amicitia wrote:I consider judgmental a good attribute, and hypocritical much maligned one; sometimes, it's inappropriate to be gay.


...

*deep breath*

Ok, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that what you meant to say was, "Sometimes, it's inappropriate to flaunt your sexuality in other people's faces." Because that's a point that I can at least understand. Perhaps it is inappropriate to run into a church filled with gay-hating bigots and make out with your same-sex partner on the altar. Perhaps you're speaking out against the far-too-common practice of interrupting a lecture to throw on a strap-on and fuck your lady partner in the ass during a Western Civilization class. And maybe, just maybe, you think it's uncouth to for a man to suck his boyfriend's dick while standing in line for funnel cake at Disneyworld.

I hope that's what you mean and you were just incapable of expressing said thoughts. Because otherwise, you have just spouted some of the most absurd, close-minded, bigoted bullshit that I have seen come from you. And given some of your other pearls of wisdom, that is no small feat.

So which is it? Do the finer points of the English language escape you, or are you an ignorant close-minded twat?

Think it over. I'll wait.
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Re: Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby damienthebloody » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:48 am UTC

i'm afraid i cannot see how it is inappropriate to be gay at a funeral.
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Re: Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby Amicitia » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:48 am UTC

Homosexuality is okay though.
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Re: Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby Infornographer » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:55 am UTC

Amicitia wrote:Homosexuality is okay though.


Hypocrite.

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Re: Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby Gelsamel » Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:01 am UTC

I'm gay all the time.
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Re: Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby lorenith » Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:06 am UTC

I've seen what this article talks about from a lot of my uh...church going friends. Sometimes they'll talk to me about how a lot of their Christian peers seem very well, they're inconsiderate jackasses. At least one of them has lamented to me about it 2 or three times in the past year or so since he started college.

To the "being judgmental isn't so bad" people, it isn't, it's when you go way over board with it that it becomes a problem. Most everyone is judgmental to some degree without it causing problems, I think when the people that answered this survey say judgmental they were thinking of Christians that believe everything not Christian, not strait, and so on is immoral and inferior. (So judgmental to the point of Bigotry)

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Re: Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby Amicitia » Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:11 am UTC

Belial wrote:
Amicitia wrote: sometimes, it's inappropriate to be gay.


:shock:
:x
:cry:

I didn't see that coming.
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Re: Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby Belial » Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:28 am UTC

Too much stupid. No words.
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Re: Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby MikeBabaguh » Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:43 am UTC

How in hell is it inappropriate to be gay at a funeral?

You're not talking about the more traditional definition, which means "happy", are you?

On-topic: had I taken the polls, I'd be in the majority figure there. Strangely enough, I consider myself more of a Christian than the very public fundamentalists that are causing so much of a ruckus these days.

Also, just for the record, I have never once called myself Christian until just now. In my 28 years on this planet, I've attended church once and often derided my father during my teenage years for being so devout (and he's quite the moderate).
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Re: Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby Amicitia » Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:48 am UTC

Belial wrote:Too much stupid. No words.

Do you comment on YouTube as well?
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Re: Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby Malice » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:01 am UTC

Amicitia wrote:Homosexuality is okay though.


Ammy, I love ya, but sometimes you're a goddamned idjit.

Homosexuality = gay
like
half a dozen = six

Kay? If one is gay, one cannot be "not gay" at any given moment; anymore than if one is black, one cannot be "not black" at any given moment.

To put it another way: I do not think those words mean what you think they mean.
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Re: Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby Bakemaster » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:02 am UTC

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Re: Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby Gelsamel » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:05 am UTC

Gay:

Full of or showing high-spirited merriment; "when hearts were young and gay"; "a poet could not but be gay, in such a jocund company"
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Re: Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby Chocceh » Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:31 pm UTC

For the record, I clearly read it as "It's inappropriate to act on your homosexuality." (Yes, that makes sense if you replace it with 'heterosexuality.')

Also, you all should take a step back and wonder why not one, not two, but FOURTEEN posts are needed to blast the same person for the same thing.
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Re: Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby Belial » Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:00 pm UTC

Chocceh wrote:Also, you all should take a step back and wonder why not one, not two, but FOURTEEN posts are needed to blast the same person for the same thing.


Because that's what trolls are good for?
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Re: Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby damienthebloody » Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:07 pm UTC

Chocceh wrote:For the record, I clearly read it as "It's inappropriate to act on your homosexuality." (Yes, that makes sense if you replace it with 'heterosexuality.')

...are you telling me it's not ok to pick up girls at funerals?
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Re: Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby ZeroSum » Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:17 pm UTC

damienthebloody wrote:
Chocceh wrote:For the record, I clearly read it as "It's inappropriate to act on your homosexuality." (Yes, that makes sense if you replace it with 'heterosexuality.')

...are you telling me it's not ok to pick up girls at funerals?
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Re: Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby Vaniver » Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:15 pm UTC

Obviously, it's inappropriate to be gay (in the active sense) when your procreation is vital to the survival of your society or species. Otherwise, I have to agree with Chocceh.

As for the article, I am unsurprised. The church is between a rock and a hard place- the youth are more skeptical than youth of the past (and the holy book doesn't help- the Bible is rather hostile to organized religion), and the elderly (as always) want the church to be ossified. Churches that adapt themselves to the desires of the younger generation are legitimately seen as selling out or compromising their principles; churches that continue to follow the desires of their older generations find themselves with shrinking rolls and collections. It's not a pleasant time to (try to) be a paragon of traditional morality.
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Re: Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby Bakemaster » Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:25 pm UTC

Vaniver wrote:Obviously, it's inappropriate to be gay (in the active sense) when your procreation is vital to the survival of your society or species.

Impractical != Inappropriate
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Re: Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby oxoiron » Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:52 pm UTC

USAToday wrote:Majorities of young people in America describe modern-day Christianity as judgmental, hypocritical and anti-gay.

non-Christians — 91% — said Christianity had an anti-gay image, followed by 87% who said it was judgmental and 85% who said it was hypocritical.

active churchgoers: 80% agreed with the anti-gay label, 52% said Christianity is judgmental, and 47% declared it hypocritical.
I can't imagine how this could happen!

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Re: Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby Flying Betty » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:35 pm UTC

damienthebloody wrote:...are you telling me it's not ok to pick up girls at funerals?

Dammit, there go my plans for the weekend!
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Re: Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby zenten » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:37 pm UTC

While I like the results, I'm skeptical about how random this sampling really is.

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Re: Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby 22/7 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:56 pm UTC

^agreed^

Also, the use of the word "judgmental" bothers me. Everybody judges nearly everything they come into contact with all the time. Did you select clothes to wear today? Judgment. Make a decision about what to eat and what not to? Judgment. Decide whether or not to say hi to someone as you pass them in the hall? Judgment. See where I'm going with this? You don't like the music the guy is playing in the car next to you? Don't like someone's hair cut, or the way they dress? Don't like their religious/political beliefs? These "preferences" are judgments just like anything else.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby Belial » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:58 pm UTC

22/7 wrote:Also, the use of the word "judgmental" bothers me. Everybody judges nearly everything they come into contact with all the time. Did you select clothes to wear today? Judgment. Make a decision about what to eat and what not to? Judgment. Decide whether or not to say hi to someone as you pass them in the hall? Judgment. See where I'm going with this? You don't like the music the guy is playing in the car next to you? Don't like someone's hair cut, or the way they dress? Don't like their religious/political beliefs? These "preferences" are judgments just like anything else.


True. Also, pedantry. You're aware of what judgemental means in the context in which it was used, and it doesn't extend to picking out your socks.

"Judgemental" is shorthand for "inclined to judge the worth of other human beings too readily and harshly"
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Re: Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby 22/7 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:09 pm UTC

Totally. What I mean is that I don't like the tag of "judgmental" being thrown around, especially in reference to religion, as a negative thing. This survey reinforces that trend. I'm not saying I don't understand what it's saying, I just don't like the term being used the way that it is.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby space_raptor » Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:47 pm UTC

Most Christians aren't anti-gay, and they aren't judgemental. Not the ones I know anyways.

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Re: Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby Belial » Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:52 pm UTC

They should talk to their PR people then.
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Re: Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby oxoiron » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:07 pm UTC

space_raptor wrote:Most Christians aren't anti-gay, and they aren't judgemental. Not the ones I know anyways.
Some of my best friends are deeply religious christians, people who live in the manner that I suspect Jesus hoped people would. Come to think of it, the fact that they are friends with me proves that they are very accepting, loving people, because I have no use for religion and I usually let people know that. Unfortunately, the anti-gay, judgemental hypocrites are the "christians" who get all the press time.
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Re: Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby zenten » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:23 pm UTC

space_raptor wrote:Most Christians aren't anti-gay, and they aren't judgemental. Not the ones I know anyways.

Little five pound baby Jesus weeps at the results of this poll.


Yup, most people in Canada are Christian (or at least say they are when they do the census), and most Canadians were in favour of allowing gay marriage. Enough on both ends that I can say with strong certainty that most Canadian Christians aren't anti-gay.

As to being judgmental, I find it to be a character trait that has nothing to do with what religion you follow. The religion you follow will just have a (minor) effect on how you are judgmental.

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Re: Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby Gunfingers » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:24 pm UTC

But this isn't about what christians are, it's about how people perceive them.

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Re: Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby 22/7 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:51 pm UTC

Very true. The difference here became quite clear to me when studying abroad. To avoid the, "I'm actually less culturally accepting than you are, but you said you're from America and so I'm going to demand you explain to me why you support Bush," I generally told people I was Canadian.

Anyway, I'm wondering what the cross-section of people who were polled looked like. Where are they from, what's their socio-economic background, are their parents generally more lefty or righty, etc.


lefty you're ok with, but not righty?
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby idont_know12 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:56 pm UTC

Amicitia wrote:I consider judgmental a good attribute.

First off, they mean judgmental like to the point of persecution (not necessarily violent, but verbal or indirect persecution as well), I'm pretty sure. Second, doesn't the bible itself say something to the extent that it's bad to judge your fellow man?

As to the whole 'anti-gay' thing... AFAIK (and correct me if I'm wrong), homosexuality is only stated against in the Old Testament. May I remind you that most of the laws in the Old Testament were for sanitation reasons (don't eat pork, etc) and not actual moral laws. In addition, I believe Jesus' coming was supposed to start a 'New Covenant', which was supposed to eliminate all the old laws and put up new ones. And Jesus, AFAIK, never said anything about homosexuality. What he did say, though, was to love one another and spend your time not with the rich and holy, but with those down on their luck or lacking faith.
But it's been a while since I read up on it.

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Re: Study: Youth see Christians as judgmental, anti-gay

Postby Belial » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:58 pm UTC

idont_know12 wrote:As to the whole 'anti-gay' thing... AFAIK (and correct me if I'm wrong), homosexuality is only stated against in the Old Testament. May I remind you that most of the laws in the Old Testament were for sanitation reasons (don't eat pork, etc) and not actual moral laws. In addition, I believe Jesus' coming was supposed to start a 'New Covenant', which was supposed to eliminate all the old laws and put up new ones. And Jesus, AFAIK, never said anything about homosexuality. What he did say, though, was to love one another and spend your time not with the rich and holy, but with those down on their luck or lacking faith.
But it's been a while since I read up on it.


Unfortunately, the book is not the religion. The religion is what the people actually believe. If it contradicts the book, it makes no difference to what the religion actually is.

And then, to take it one step further away, this poll isn't about what the religion actually is, but how it's perceived. It's about the religion's image.
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