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Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 8:28 pm UTC
by Lumpy
In the Israeli Knesset on their 60th birthday.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24647048/

In President Bush's mind, discussion and negotiation with an enemy country is appeasement. Hey, aren't we doing that to North Korea by giving them aid in exchange for information on their nukes, only two years after the White House said they wouldn't use "flowers and chocolates" on them like Clinton did?

(Edit: Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid makes a good point.

Sen. Reid of Nevada wrote:And by conducting discussions with Russia, China, Libya, North Korea and Iran in recent years, President Bush has demonstrated his belief that negotiations can be a tool to advance America and Israel's national security interests.
)

John McCain chimed in and said that Ronald Reagan never negotiated with Iran and called on him to explain his weird "talking before going to war" policy to the American people. I guess he forgot, you know, Reagan admitting that he traded arms for hostages. Surely this will rally the Democrats together after the primaries, right?

Re: Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 8:37 pm UTC
by segmentation fault
this is the grandson of a guy who pretty much funded the actual Nazis.

lul.

Re: Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 8:51 pm UTC
by aleflamedyud
I'm incredibly ashamed that Bush had to go and say shit like that in my country.

Re: Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 8:53 pm UTC
by Lumpy
Hillary Clinton just released a statement condemning Bush's comments.

Has any sitting president ever gone and done something like this before another nation's parliament?

Re: Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 8:53 pm UTC
by Mighty Jalapeno
I can't believe you let him into your country in the first place. Can you get a restraining order?

Re: Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 8:59 pm UTC
by zenten
So Bush just Godwined the presidential race? In Israel?

Re: Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 9:09 pm UTC
by Belial
I...just made that joke on another site.

Get out of my brain, you.

Re: Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:37 pm UTC
by Silas
I'm reading the transcript, and it doesn't look like the President said anything that really points to Obama. I admire the junior Senator from Illinois (I'll vote for him in October*), but I hate to watch him piggyback on Mr. Bush's publicity like this. The man finally gave a decent (B+) speech, and all anybody cares about is a vague link to Obama.

*That's right. October.

Re: Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 12:01 am UTC
by Lumpy
Obama has said repeatedly during Democratic debates and speeches that he would have open discussions with the leaders of both Iran and Cuba. Politicians like to refer to other politicians by policies, their words, and their actions without naming names all the time, no matter how obvious it is they're referring to.

For example, I was watching one Obama speech late last month and he referred to some thinking that "lobbyists are Americans, too" in the middle of a chain of "some think" in a "contrast with old politics" speech. Hillary Clinton said that quote during a 2007 liberal blogging convention, YearlyKos, and had used it in an obscure YouTube campaign ad.

Re: Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 12:23 am UTC
by Silas
Yes, politicians are known to make oblique references, but sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Re: Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 1:10 am UTC
by Lumpy

Re: Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 5:54 am UTC
by Dream
This is one of the most stark differences between the candidates. Obama would engage with Iran, Clinton is already threatening them. Bush couldn't have been any more clear if he had spelled it out: "We want Clinton to win. We are terrified of Obama."

Re: Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 6:10 am UTC
by EsotericWombat
Belial wrote:I...just made that joke on another site.

Get out of my brain, you.


I was actually going to make a thread entitled "Bush Godwins the election" as soon as I heard about it, but I got distracted

Re: Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 5:43 pm UTC
by aleflamedyud
zenten wrote:So Bush just Godwined the presidential race? In Israel?

Oh my fucking God. I just figured out what the fuck has been going on these past 8 years.

The president (י''ש) is the single greatest troll ever to live. He has trolled the entire Earth.

It all makes sense now!

I can't believe you let him into your country in the first place. Can you get a restraining order?

Unfortunately, no. Israel gets enough stuff (aid, trade, export markets for technology, tourism) from the USA that they sort of have to stand back and let the troll speak. If he wanted to really *do* something stupid or offensive they could stop him, but they can't justify not letting him speak.

Diplomacy sucks. How about turning things around a bit? Israel invades the USA, imposes things like a parliamentary, multi-party governmental system; universal health care; delicious Middle-Eastern cuisine; and cheap(er) higher education and runs the place until Americans can get on their own two feet as a culture again? To top it all off, listening to anti-Semites rave "I TOLD YOU SO Oh me yarm Oh!" would become a new form of popular entertainment.

ISRAEL FOR PRESIDENT, 2008: The change raving lunatics have been worried about for decades!

Re: Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 5:48 pm UTC
by Mighty Jalapeno
Can't Canada just invade, and give them the exact same things?

Re: Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 6:15 pm UTC
by Belial
The best, BEST part of this whole debacle was watching Chris Matthews, renowned tv "news" douchebag, actually call out a republican commentator for being an idiot.

From memory (no youtube at work) it went something like:

Chris: "Do you actually know what Neville Chamberlain did? The event that Bush is referring to?"

Commentator: ::splutter, yell, change subject::

Chris: "No. Shut up. Do you actually know the historical person Bush is talking about?"

Commentator: ::splutter, yell, the word "appeaser" gets yelled a lot::

Chris: "You don't, do you? You're actually sitting here backing the president's message and you don't even know what he's talking about? Neville Chamberlain was an appeaser, but not because he talked to Hitler. Because he gave him a chunk of czechoslovakia."

Commentator: ::splutter, evade::

Chris: "No. Talking is not appeasing. Talking is talking. And learn some damn history. Sit down and shut up."

It was a magical time. I don't think I've ever rooted for that guy before.

There's a link to the video which I currently can't rewatch over at Shakesville

Re: Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 6:22 pm UTC
by Mighty Jalapeno
Wait... now there's a reason for me to let Matthews live?

*sighs, and erases his name from The List* Awww, man, he was right near the top, too.

I love how talking is now seen as a weakness.

Re: Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 6:57 pm UTC
by aleflamedyud
Mighty Jalapeno wrote:Can't Canada just invade, and give them the exact same things?

Problem is that nobody's afraid of Canada or Canadians, so it completely ruins the entertainment value.

Also, Israel's multi-party system is full of wacky-fun ethnic and religious parties, along with parties that just got voted in on a joke!

For example (I can't tell you the time this happened, but an Israeli told me this story), once upon a time a bunch of old geezers started the Pensioner's Party and ran for Knesset seats. This would have been uneventful, but a large group of soldiers and other young adults spread the word for everyone dissatisfied with the status-quo to vote Pensioner's Party as a sort of humorous protest vote. As a result, the Pensioner's Party won 8 seats in the Knesset.

Just think, we could have a Latino List, a White Warriors' Party, the Cynical Centrists, Loopy Liberals...

Re: Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 7:04 pm UTC
by Mighty Jalapeno
And, of course, XKCDemocrats.

Re: Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 7:30 pm UTC
by CogDissident
aleflamedyud wrote:Problem is that nobody's afraid of Canada or Canadians, so it completely ruins the entertainment value.

Canada: The only country to successfully invade the USA, and burn down the white house.

Canadians can be pretty scary, I mean, they're primed to invade us, they've already got 90% of their population lined up right next to our border!

(joking, of course)

Re: Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 7:32 pm UTC
by Jahoclave
CogDissident wrote:
aleflamedyud wrote:Problem is that nobody's afraid of Canada or Canadians, so it completely ruins the entertainment value.

Canada: The only country to successfully invade the USA, and burn down the white house.

Canadians can be pretty scary, I mean, they're primed to invade us, they've already got 90% of their population lined up right next to our border!

(joking, of course)

Yeah, but they can only get so far before there is no more snow and ice for their sleds to advance on. They'll never get to Texas, and come summer they'll be stuck and those Texans will just mop'em up. Though, the East Coast will probably stay with Canada out of spite.

Re: Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 7:41 pm UTC
by segmentation fault
Jahoclave wrote:Yeah, but they can only get so far before there is no more snow and ice for their sleds to advance on.


exactly why america is doing nothing to stop global warming.

Re: Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 7:48 pm UTC
by Lumpy
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24667245/

John McCain is now denying he ever said that he would negotiate with Hamas, after a video surfaced accusing him of hypocrisy for his current statements toward Obama by contrasting his statements in a 2006 interview with the most recent ones. John McCain said, "They're the government; sooner or later we are going to have to deal with them, one way or another ... "

So I was thinking about how he could deny having said he would negotiate, using double meanings and obfuscating language. Here, the only thing I can see "deal with" meaning other than "negotiate" is "a war with Hamas." Can anyone else see it? Meriam-Webster Online Dictionary suggests that "taking action against something" is the only one that applies other than "negotiating."

Re: Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 8:48 pm UTC
by AlwaysRelated
Belial wrote:There's a link to the video which I currently can't rewatch over at Shakesville


I'm sorry. This is THE funniest thing I have seen or heard all week. Thank you very much.

As for Canada...I doubt we could hold America. However, burning down the White House every couple centuries, that I could go for :D Keep them in line, eh?

Re: Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 7:47 pm UTC
by Lumpy
During the YouTube debate, and I believe during the pre-New Hampshire debate, I believe I remember John McCain directly telling the Ronpaul that the kind of "isolationism" he espoused was what caused World War II and said that "we allowed Hitler to come into power with that kind of appeasement." the Ronpaul went on CNN the next day and said he thought Hitler caused World War II, not Americans.

Actually, that was part of why I watched the Republican debates. the Ronpaul served as a punching bag for how they would attack Democrats on foreign policy, except that the moderators never really gave him a chance to respond. I really don't think any of their arguments they used in the primary debate will hold up in a general election debate, since they seemed to be primarily based on emotion; they didn't have to make a logical case for it because most of their audience agreed with them.

Another thing the Ronpaul said was that al-Qaeda and terrorist groups like it claim that the reason they're crusading against America is because of troop presence in holy Islamic areas. It began with Saudi Arabia, who requested troop presence after the Gulf War, but biographies of Osama bin Laden had him expressing profound disagreement with the king because he felt the presence of Christians in a holy Muslim city like Medina disgraced it. John McCain said that he was foolish and naive for choosing to believe terrorist organizations at their words, yet he is inconsistent in his fact-finding because he believes Hamas when they endorse Obama.

Weak arguments like these make me eager for the presidential debates, where John McCain can get thrashed right there on the stage if he makes an error of such profound magnitude, like saying al-Qaeda is supported by Iran, a pretense which actually would allow the President to unilaterally send troops into Iran, under the legislation that allowed the U.S. to go into Afghanistan.

Re: Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 8:10 am UTC
by Pathway
Belial wrote:The best, BEST part of this whole debacle was watching Chris Matthews, renowned tv "news" douchebag, actually call out a republican commentator for being an idiot.

From memory (no youtube at work) it went something like:

Chris: "Do you actually know what Neville Chamberlain did? The event that Bush is referring to?"

Commentator: ::splutter, yell, change subject::

Chris: "No. Shut up. Do you actually know the historical person Bush is talking about?"

Commentator: ::splutter, yell, the word "appeaser" gets yelled a lot::

Chris: "You don't, do you? You're actually sitting here backing the president's message and you don't even know what he's talking about? Neville Chamberlain was an appeaser, but not because he talked to Hitler. Because he gave him a chunk of czechoslovakia."

Commentator: ::splutter, evade::

Chris: "No. Talking is not appeasing. Talking is talking. And learn some damn history. Sit down and shut up."

It was a magical time. I don't think I've ever rooted for that guy before.

There's a link to the video which I currently can't rewatch over at Shakesville


Did you hear James mention the name Neverlin Chaimbell? I think I did, maybe 6:00 in. Poor guy was just so fucked. He was acting like a middle-schooler who hasn't read the book.

Re: Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 8:23 am UTC
by DarkKnightJared
I respect Bush for making Hitler allusions exactly as much as I respect internet trolls making them--and by that, I mean not at fucking all.

The really stupid thing is that while Bush was more than likely refering to Obama, since he's more in the public spotlight, he could have (and I believe did) say that he was referring to someone like Jimmy Carter, who had or is going to go and do the same thing. Sorta makes him look guilty of doing so in the eyes of the voter--needless to say, it's not the smartest move Obama's ever done.

Re: Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 9:58 am UTC
by aleflamedyud
If we're going to Godwin life by comparing an active politician to Hitler, I honestly think Bush deserves the comparison most of all. He's the fucking Anti-Christ.

Re: Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 11:37 pm UTC
by Clumpy
I think he really believes that diplomacy and appeasement are the same thing. Prior to WWII, the USA tried to pretend that nothing was happening in Europe. If we had sent people over to Europe to lay down the law and make the consequences clear to Hitler of continued expansionism, while promising benefits for peaceful coexistence, it's possible that Hitler would have been known only as the Fuhrer who socialized Germany.

Pity that history always @#$! repeats itself because we never interpret it beyond five-year-old generalities.

Another thing the Ronpaul said was that al-Qaeda and terrorist groups like it claim that the reason they're crusading against America is because of troop presence in holy Islamic areas. It began with Saudi Arabia, who requested troop presence after the Gulf War, but biographies of Osama bin Laden had him expressing profound disagreement with the king because he felt the presence of Christians in a holy Muslim city like Medina disgraced it.


In the words of the more-perceptive-than-funny David Cross: "I don't think Osama bin Laden sent those planes to attack us because he hated our freedom. I think he did it because of our support for Israel, our ties with the Saudi family and our military bases in Saudi Arabia. You know why I think that? Because that's what he fucking said! Are we a nation of 6-year-olds? Answer: yes."

Re: Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 5:50 am UTC
by Dream
Clumpy wrote:I think he really believes that diplomacy and appeasement are the same thing. Prior to WWII, the USA tried to pretend that nothing was happening in Europe. If we had sent people over to Europe to lay down the law and make the consequences clear to Hitler of continued expansionism, while promising benefits for peaceful coexistence, it's possible that Hitler would have been known only as the Fuhrer who socialized Germany.

The guy attacked the Soviet Union. And conquered most of Europe. Isolationist, unmilitarized America 5000 miles away through his Grand Fleet were not going to scare him. He was crazy. And powerful.

Re: Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 6:09 am UTC
by Clumpy
Dream wrote:
Clumpy wrote:I think he really believes that diplomacy and appeasement are the same thing. Prior to WWII, the USA tried to pretend that nothing was happening in Europe. If we had sent people over to Europe to lay down the law and make the consequences clear to Hitler of continued expansionism, while promising benefits for peaceful coexistence, it's possible that Hitler would have been known only as the Fuhrer who socialized Germany.

The guy attacked the Soviet Union. And conquered most of Europe. Isolationist, unmilitarized America 5000 miles away through his Grand Fleet were not going to scare him. He was crazy. And powerful.


Yeah - I feel kinda sheepish. Don't hire me as a foreign policy advisor anytime soon, not that there's much danger of that.

Re: Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:53 am UTC
by OBloodyHell
segmentation fault wrote:
Jahoclave wrote:Yeah, but they can only get so far before there is no more snow and ice for their sleds to advance on.


exactly why america is doing nothing to stop global warming.



America figures, correctly, that the Earth has already stopped global warming, so it seems rather insane to pay lots of money*to pay Al Gore and his cronies to put out the cat after the cat's already outside.

*(well, a few trillion IS pocket change to the USA, but, hey -- it adds up sooner or later)

Re: Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:57 am UTC
by OBloodyHell
aleflamedyud wrote:If we're going to Godwin life by comparing an active politician to Hitler, I honestly think Bush deserves the comparison most of all. He's the fucking Anti-Christ.



There's logic for you. GIGO at work.

Re: Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:09 am UTC
by OBloodyHell
Dream wrote:
Clumpy wrote:I think he really believes that diplomacy and appeasement are the same thing. Prior to WWII, the USA tried to pretend that nothing was happening in Europe. If we had sent people over to Europe to lay down the law and make the consequences clear to Hitler of continued expansionism, while promising benefits for peaceful coexistence, it's possible that Hitler would have been known only as the Fuhrer who socialized Germany.

The guy attacked the Soviet Union. And conquered most of Europe. Isolationist, unmilitarized America 5000 miles away through his Grand Fleet were not going to scare him. He was crazy. And powerful.


More critically, Hitler was not strongly supported by his generals early on. I quote Bill Whittle at Eject Eject Eject:

After World War II, the allies captured the records of the German High Command. I was stunned to discover that the Wehrmacht�s generals were so appalled at Hitler�s decision to test the resolve of the Western Powers (by marching into the demilitarized Rhineland) that they were prepared to remove or even assassinate him should there have been any resistance to the move. They were terrified of finding themselves in another war. Hitler, on the other hand, couched the violation in the same reasonable-sounding terms that Howard Dean and Nancy Pelosi would have undoubtedly approved of, and in he went.

Thus began the most horrible and tragic appeasement in the history of the world.

According to the Germans' own records, a platoon of French soldiers, stationed on that bridge and unwilling to retreat (there�s your problem right there) would have caused the overthrow of Adolph Hitler, and the abandonment of his expansionist policies. Why? Because it wouldn�t have paid, that�s why. As it happened, intimidating the West paid handsomely: The Sudetenland, Austria, Czechoslovakia it was only when the West finally realized the fruits of appeasement that Hitler was stopped. If it had happened much sooner it would have been much easier. If it had happened at the beginning it would have been painless.


So, more than fifty million deaths could have been stopped by a company of French troops on a bridge. Says something about the value of approaching problems early, doesn't it?


Naw. You listen to Chris Matthews with a straight face. Like Matthews would EVER get a seriously capable debater on his show to interview. LOL.

Re: Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:45 am UTC
by Red Hal
OBloodyHell wrote:
segmentation fault wrote:
Jahoclave wrote:Yeah, but they can only get so far before there is no more snow and ice for their sleds to advance on.


exactly why america is doing nothing to stop global warming.



America figures, correctly, that the Earth has already stopped global warming, so it seems rather insane to pay lots of money*to pay Al Gore and his cronies to put out the cat after the cat's already outside.

*(well, a few trillion IS pocket change to the USA, but, hey -- it adds up sooner or later)


OBloodyHell, on what basis do you make the statement that global warming has stopped? I realise this is off-topic (sorry) so would like to discuss it elsewhere with you.

Re: Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:38 am UTC
by Maskirovka
a non-scientific basis, surely.

Anyways, this whole thing has a totally different look to it after the whole Palin/lipstick thing.

I mean, Palin = Pig, Obama = Nazi Appeaser, right? lol...I guess McCain's campaign looked at Obama's response and assumed it was "false outrage" and figured they could do the same thing to him later (in a completely different and non-sequitur way that will make people think they're idiots).

Re: Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:45 pm UTC
by psyck0
Red Hal wrote:
OBloodyHell wrote:
segmentation fault wrote:
Jahoclave wrote:Yeah, but they can only get so far before there is no more snow and ice for their sleds to advance on.


exactly why america is doing nothing to stop global warming.



America figures, correctly, that the Earth has already stopped global warming, so it seems rather insane to pay lots of money*to pay Al Gore and his cronies to put out the cat after the cat's already outside.

*(well, a few trillion IS pocket change to the USA, but, hey -- it adds up sooner or later)


OBloodyHell, on what basis do you make the statement that global warming has stopped? I realise this is off-topic (sorry) so would like to discuss it elsewhere with you.


Obviously a republican basis. You know, the one where they ignore science and lie?

Re: Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:32 pm UTC
by Bakemaster
Hey, let's play a game. It's called, "Come across an already-Godwinned, 4 month-old thread necroed by an obvious troll, and just ignore the little shit."

Re: Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:21 pm UTC
by psyck0
Apologies. Did not notice the OP date.

Re: Pres. Bush: Obama like appeasers of Hitler

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:01 pm UTC
by william
Maskirovka wrote:a non-scientific basis, surely.

Anyways, this whole thing has a totally different look to it after the whole Palin/lipstick thing.

I mean, Palin = Pig, Obama = Nazi Appeaser, right? lol...I guess McCain's campaign looked at Obama's response and assumed it was "false outrage" and figured they could do the same thing to him later (in a completely different and non-sequitur way that will make people think they're idiots).

Palin was the lipstick. </thread>