Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

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Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby lazarus89 » Fri May 30, 2008 4:25 pm UTC

http://www.redlasso.com/ClipPlayer.aspx ... cd871b6726

Did Bill O'Reilly just construct a new one for that anti-gay rights activist?

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Re: Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby ++$_ » Fri May 30, 2008 5:35 pm UTC

O'Reilly is of course correct. The anti-gay movement does need to come up with a reason, because they're losing ground in the fight. Their current plan is to stick their heads in the sand and say "The polls are wrong!" I heartily support this strategy.

The problem is they can't come up with a reason, because there isn't one.

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Re: Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby Garm » Fri May 30, 2008 5:39 pm UTC

++$_ wrote:O'Reilly is of course correct. The anti-gay movement does need to come up with a reason, because they're losing ground in the fight. Their current plan is to stick their heads in the sand and say "The polls are wrong!" I heartily support this strategy.

The problem is they can't come up with a reason, because there isn't one.


Not so... there's totally a reason. Leviticus clearly points to the fact that teh butt secks doesn't produce teh babies. We need more babies to go fight GWOT and pick veggables on farms after we build up the great anti-immigration wall in between the U.S. and Mexico.
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Re: Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby ++$_ » Fri May 30, 2008 6:20 pm UTC

He did specifically ask for a reason that wasn't religion-based, so that those whose religion or lack thereof is tolerant of gay people might vote against the amendment.

But I think what we're going through now is the biggest problem that the right-wing nutcases are going to face, now and in the future: People in some parts of the country are not right-wing nutcases. Their rhetoric about "family values" and "long-standing traditions" rings false in our ears. They might as well be saying "The evil overlord Xenu is taking over Ganymede and Callisto, so we have to ban gay marriage" for all the relevance it has to me. And they can't come up with an argument that might convince me, because if there were one, I would probably have thought of it and be on the other side of the issue.

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Re: Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby Clumpy » Fri May 30, 2008 6:29 pm UTC

Marriage was a private issue until recently, so gay marriage shouldn't even be an issue. Granted, there have been times that things such as interracial marriage have been illegal, but those were restrictions to the private (usually but not always religious) practice of marriage. Government should get back into the business of recognizing marriages rather than restricting the same.

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Re: Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby CogDissident » Fri May 30, 2008 7:17 pm UTC

A friend of mine (who is lesbian) actually worked out the average tax revenue of what would happen if gay marriage was legal.

Wish I had the numbers, but the math was (with numbers)

(US Population) * (average pre tax income) * (Federal tax revenue per person, as percent of income) * (Tax discount for being married vs unmarried, as percent) = taxes lost per person married due to federal tax discounts

((tax result above) * (number of gay/lesbian people in the US) * (average rate of marriage, as percentage)) / 2= taxes lost if gay marriage existed

Divided by 2 because it counts each person as possibly being a couple. Couldn't make a clearer way to state that by just re-wording the variables.

The end result was actually about 1 or 2 % of the governments posted tax revenue. So there is a financial incentive here for the government to not want this.

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Re: Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby Vaniver » Fri May 30, 2008 9:16 pm UTC

CogDissident wrote:The end result was actually about 1 or 2 % of the governments posted tax revenue. So there is a financial incentive here for the government to not want this.
I find this hard to believe; what percentage of the population are you claiming is gay/lesbian?

And the tax discount for being married isn't that simple; my (possibly flawed) understanding is that it's primarily useful when the spouses make very different amounts of money, since otherwise it's just doubling income and doubling income brackets. I don't think two people making 50k a year get a tax benefit for filing jointly, but a person making 100k a year and a person making nothing do (but I haven't actually run the numbers, so I could be wrong or my example could be chosen poorly).
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Re: Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby lazarus89 » Fri May 30, 2008 9:54 pm UTC

Indeed. Most married couples I know at the place I work at file separately -- they can claim two sets of deductions that way, and it cuts back on their tax liability greatly.
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Re: Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby Malice » Fri May 30, 2008 11:01 pm UTC

CogDissident wrote:The end result was actually about 1 or 2 % of the governments posted tax revenue. So there is a financial incentive here for the government to not want this.


But that's a pretty stupid reason. The government could also save money by not allowing interracial marriages; that doesn't mean they should pursue that policy.
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Re: Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby TheStranger » Sat May 31, 2008 1:18 pm UTC

I've always found it funny how people can so rabidly hate a person like Mr. O'Reilly... to the point where they are completely stumped when he says something they agree with. I've agreed with him and disagreed with him, but I've always enjoyed listening to him.

He brings up a very important point, in that if gay marriage is to remain unrecognized by state/federal governments then those who want it to remain that way will have to come up with better reasons then select passages from the Bible (or otherwise appealing to tradition).
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Re: Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby Mr. Beck » Sat May 31, 2008 7:38 pm UTC

Good for Bil!
(never thought I'd say that...)

Really, he's right. There is no reason short of religion to disallow gay marriage, and a good portion of the country makes decisions based on more than religion.

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Re: Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby lazarus89 » Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:27 pm UTC

TheStranger wrote:I've always found it funny how people can so rabidly hate a person like Mr. O'Reilly...


That's because he is xenophobic, hyperbolic and irrational. This is the first time in forever that I've seen something even remotely admirable coming out of his mouth on television.

I don't consider myself a fan of Bill O'Reilly and I am right of center on the political spectrum.
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Re: Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby Clumpy » Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:37 pm UTC

lazarus89 wrote:
TheStranger wrote:I've always found it funny how people can so rabidly hate a person like Mr. O'Reilly...


That's because he is xenophobic, hyperbolic and irrational. This is the first time in forever that I've seen something even remotely admirable coming out of his mouth on television.

I don't consider myself a fan of Bill O'Reilly and I am right of center on the political spectrum.


Bill may not have the most fantastic thought process or passable manners, but he at least gives lip service to principles like intellectual honesty and thought based on facts and outcomes rather than ideology. At a time when I was a Sean Hannity-phile, O'Reilly helped me to see through the bull and, ironically, beyond him as well. I still have aways to go.

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Re: Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby segmentation fault » Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:58 pm UTC

CogDissident wrote:The end result was actually about 1 or 2 % of the governments posted tax revenue. So there is a financial incentive here for the government to not want this.


so why is the loss of income due to a gay marriage worse than the loss of income due to a straight marriage? or the loss of income due to straight people having kids, which gay people cant do (and ironically is given as an argument against gay marriage as well)?
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Re: Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby DarkKnightJared » Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:11 pm UTC

Well, it's officially over for the anti-gay people now. You know you've lost the war when BILL O-FUCKING-REILLY says there isn't a rational reason. :shock:

But I'm not all THAT surprised--even a broken clock is right twice a day. 8)

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Re: Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby 3.14159265... » Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:41 pm UTC

I find it ironic how people can genuinely love Colbert, and genuinely hate O'Reilly and then claim higher moral and rational ground.

Good for Bill O on this one. It takes loads of guts to be rational when everyone expects you to be something else and specially if everyone are anonymous audience members.
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Re: Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby Belial » Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:24 pm UTC

I find it ironic how people can genuinely love Colbert, and genuinely hate O'Reilly and then claim higher moral and rational ground.


Umm. One is satire, the other is not?
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Re: Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby 3.14159265... » Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:27 pm UTC

Belial wrote:
I find it ironic how people can genuinely love Colbert, and genuinely hate O'Reilly and then claim higher moral and rational ground.


Umm. One is satire, the other is not?

People watch one because it provides them with news in an entertaining way. Other people do the same with the other.

Obviously there are degrees to everything, but it's not as far off for people to be able to claim higher moral and rational ground and at the same time hate one and love the other.
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Re: Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby Belial » Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:29 pm UTC

Or perhaps people watch one of them because they enjoy *satire*. And they watch the other because they want to be told, unironically, what Bill O'Reilly thinks about the news, as though that were at all relevant.

There's a reason one is on comedy central and the other is on fox news or cnn or whatever the fuck O'Reilly is on.
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Re: Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby 3.14159265... » Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:31 pm UTC

Watching Colbert exclusively or mainly for the satire would not lead one to genuinely love him and genuinely hate Bill O.

Bill O is rather enjoyable to view for the sake of satire.

Come on Belial, people don't watch Colbert to be told what to think? Have you heard people quote Colbert for the sake of regurgitation?

Don't assume all viewers of Colbert think criticially about Colbert or watch him for satire.
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Re: Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby mosc » Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:38 pm UTC

It's like the kid to keeps asking "why?" and the parent that keeps answering "because I said so". Eventually, that never sits with people. If you can't link Gay Marriage to something negative, then eventually the answer to "why?" falls on only one answer: "Because GOD said so" and that one ain't gunna carry 50% of the US population...
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Re: Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby Belial » Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:43 pm UTC

Bill O is rather enjoyable to view for the sake of satire.


Umm.

But Bill O'Reilly isn't satire. He's serious. Unless I've missed some monumental joke.
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Re: Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby 3.14159265... » Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:55 pm UTC

Umm.

But Bill O'Reilly isn't satire. He's serious. Unless I've missed some monumental joke.


Hm, you seem to be ignoring my point which is that Colbert and Bill O, and all other "news entertainers" have being "news entertainers" in common.

That you agree more with one, does not make them more rational or moral.

I assume you know that some of Bill O's audience know Bill O is right, and that Colbert is a "news entertainer" that has an extreme left bias.
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Re: Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby Indon » Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:35 pm UTC

3.14159265... wrote:Bill O is rather enjoyable to view for the sake of satire.


Who's he a satire of?

'cause you know, I'm pretty sure Colbert is satirizing him.
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Re: Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby H.E.L.e.N. » Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:22 pm UTC

3.14159265... wrote:Don't assume all viewers of Colbert think criticially about Colbert or watch him for satire.


You don't need to think critically in order to watch it for the jokes.

Colbert isn't an entertainer-pundit pretending to be a news guy. He's a comedian being a comedian. The entire time.

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Re: Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby 3.14159265... » Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:39 am UTC

Colbert isn't an entertainer-pundit pretending to be a news guy. He's a comedian being a comedian. The entire time.
I disagree. Although I have a point, I don't think I will be able to make it correctly and completely.

I apologize for what looked like a rant.
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Re: Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby 22/7 » Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:02 am UTC

lazarus89 wrote:
TheStranger wrote:I've always found it funny how people can so rabidly hate a person like Mr. O'Reilly...


That's because he is xenophobic, hyperbolic and irrational. This is the first time in forever that I've seen something even remotely admirable coming out of his mouth on television.

I don't consider myself a fan of Bill O'Reilly and I am right of center on the political spectrum.

Read what he actually said rather than quoting him piecemeal in such a way as to take his comments out of context.

And I'm also quite curious as to the way in which someone views Bill O'Reilly as satire.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby lazarus89 » Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:34 am UTC

Read what he actually said rather than quoting him piecemeal in such a way as to take his comments out of context.

And I'm also quite curious as to the way in which someone views Bill O'Reilly as satire.


I did RTFA -- and many other FAs in addition to it. What I read was so thoroughly out of character for Bill-O that I felt compelled to post this article on the forum...
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Re: Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby 22/7 » Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:51 am UTC

Alright, let's take a deep breath. You quoted The Stranger piecemeal in such a way as to criticize something that he technically said while simultaneously ignoring the context in which it was said. I don't give two shits about whether or not you read the article (or the fucking article, if you wish), nor do I care how many related articles you've read, nor how many 100+ page research papers you've written about it, because it's not in any way, shape, or form related to what I said.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby 3.14159265... » Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:37 am UTC

My attempt at trying to explain my point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wOpbUgAwBE Look at him accept a valid point.

How many serious comentators have you seen that do that?

Not every person has had the same circumstances and if you look closely enough their positions are rather understandable.
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Re: Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby Dr.Robert » Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:45 am UTC

3.14159265... wrote:My attempt at trying to explain my point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wOpbUgAwBE Look at him accept a valid point.

How many serious comentators have you seen that do that?

Not every person has had the same circumstances and if you look closely enough their positions are rather understandable.


I'll concede your point that of the many commentators out there, O'Reilly isn't the worst. Personally, I find Glenn Beck to be twice as annoying, loud, and unfair.

The problem with commentator shows is that they can't concede points because then it's no fun to watch.

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Re: Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby ++$_ » Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:21 am UTC

3.14159265... wrote:My attempt at trying to explain my point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wOpbUgAwBE Look at him accept a valid point.

How many serious comentators have you seen that do that?

Not every person has had the same circumstances and if you look closely enough their positions are rather understandable.
Then look at him later in the segment, when he refuses to accept a valid point because he can't do it twice in five minutes or he'll look weak.

Now, to be perfectly fair to Mr. O'Reilly, his job is not to be smart, or correct, or anything like that. His job is to critique his guests and force them away from the bullshit (which is what he did with the person in the clip in the OP). However, I think the video you posted shows that his persona is nothing more than a bag of cheap rhetorical tricks -- mainly, interrupting people and challenging vague statements. This sounds good, but he then proceeds to make equally vague statements of his own. As that video shows, when the person on the other side isn't full of BS and actually calls HIM out instead, he comes off worse than they do.

This is why such shows are mostly worthless. If you're going to bring guests on your program, listen to what they say and call out their bullshit. Don't spout your own bullshit in addition, because that brings you down to their level.

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Re: Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ » Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:56 am UTC

Wow, this video is awesome. It's great to see someone on the right wing side take issue with the 'because I say so' logic against gay marriage- because if it's anyone on the left-wing side, the debate deteriorates into shouting and condescending chuckling, but this guy has no choice but to answer when Bill asks. And when his answer is crap, it's all the more apparent.

A++ would watch again.
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Re: Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby 3.14159265... » Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:18 pm UTC

Then look at him later in the segment, when he refuses to accept a valid point because he can't do it twice in five minutes or he'll look weak.


Who have you seen conceding a point before?

It has become normal to consistently argue with others and wrong to say "hey I was wrong".

It's not Bill O, or the rest of the far right. It's everyone and thats my point.
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Re: Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby Belial » Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:21 pm UTC

Which is why the comparison to Colbert was so ridiculous. Because Colbert is a parody of exactly what you're talking about.

It's like criticizing Space Balls for having too many stale sci-fi tropes...
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Re: Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby Random832 » Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:57 pm UTC

3.14159265... wrote:Watching Colbert exclusively or mainly for the satire would not lead one to genuinely love him and genuinely hate Bill O.

Bill O is rather enjoyable to view for the sake of satire.


I was under the impression that Bill O'Reilly was _actually_ right-wing in his politics, and that his show was not any kind of satire. Much unlike Stephen Colbert.

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Re: Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby 3.14159265... » Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:57 pm UTC

Either I have an extreme amount of hallucinations or Colbert has quite consistent political views that he shares with others, using sarcasm. While O'Reilly does it with rhetoric.

Political orientation aside, they are very similar.

It's hard for me to explain this point, and I appreciate your patience.
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Re: Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby Random832 » Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:03 pm UTC

3.14159265... wrote:Either I have an extreme amount of hallucinations or Colbert has quite consistent political views that he shares with others, using sarcasm. While O'Reilly does it with rhetoric.

Political orientation aside, they are very similar.


The difference in political orientation isn't sufficient for it to be reasonable for someone to like Colbert and hate O'Reilly?

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Re: Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby 3.14159265... » Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:26 pm UTC

One should not hate Bill O if one does not hate Colbert for bieng a "news entertainer".

You can agree mroe with one, or less with one, one can make you laugh, one doesn't make you laugh. Maybe you don't care at all.

It doesn't matter, they both have the same job for a different audience.

Can you think of a reason why I would be saying this? (Other than I must be a dumb person).
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Re: Bill O'Reilly Rips Into Anti-Gay Lawyer

Postby mazzilliu » Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:27 pm UTC

i like them both, for totally different reasons. one for playing the big guy and making you laugh when he gets shot down and the other for playing the big guy and making you cheer when he gets shot down.
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