Gay marriage protests in California

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KevorkianKat
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Gay marriage protests in California

Postby KevorkianKat » Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:22 pm UTC

Of course, did you expect any less?

Video below

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-36235

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Re: Gay marriage protests in California

Postby Gunfingers » Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:25 pm UTC

That dude had an intelligent and well-thought out rebuttal against legalization of gay marriage, and i appreciate his candor.

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Re: Gay marriage protests in California

Postby Clumpy » Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:33 pm UTC

Ha - what a Froot Loop. The motives of anybody who cares this strongly about what is essentially an individual moral issue are suspect.

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Re: Gay marriage protests in California

Postby Semidi » Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:52 pm UTC

I love the comments almost more than the video...

Some Duechebag wrote:Eat less Soy and your Homosexual cravings will cease.


But yeah, nothing new here, people hiding behind their religion as a way of justifying bigotry. It makes me very sad.
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Re: Gay marriage protests in California

Postby KevorkianKat » Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:54 pm UTC

I saw that soy one too, what does soy have to do with anything?

Also, it appears to have 1,400 comments now. Even for CNN iReports that's quite a few. It seems someone from XKCD is posting here too since they posted that "arguing on the internet" image.

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Re: Gay marriage protests in California

Postby Lucrece » Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:05 pm UTC

KevorkianKat wrote:I saw that soy one too, what does soy have to do with anything?

Also, it appears to have 1,400 comments now. Even for CNN iReports that's quite a few. It seems someone from XKCD is posting here too since they posted that "arguing on the internet" image.


It has to do with some suspect studies on the consumption of soy by mothers that might influence the causation of homosexuality in the pre-natal stage.
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Re: Gay marriage protests in California

Postby Green9090 » Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:55 pm UTC

I just want to go up to that guy and go "Excuse me, can you explain to me why everyone in opposition of gay marriage sounds like an idiot? Is there a reason you don't have any real points to back up your argument?"
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Re: Gay marriage protests in California

Postby KevorkianKat » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:34 pm UTC

It's because in reality there has to be some smart people and some dumb people to make an average. There are a lot of dumb people out there trying to buck the curve :p

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Re: Gay marriage protests in California

Postby Lucrece » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:30 pm UTC

Update:

http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/

Current headline: Guy says, "God killed him for loving fags" after a man collapsed during a rally in front of the SF City Hall.
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Re: Gay marriage protests in California

Postby KevorkianKat » Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:37 pm UTC

Apparently someone at CNN noticed they had a post count now brimming around 2,500 and the whole report got bumped to the front page as of 6:30pm central time US.

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Re: Gay marriage protests in California

Postby Jahoclave » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:36 am UTC

Personally I liked the one headline Gay Marriage = Victory for Satan.

Why is it that when he seems to win the world ends up a better and happier place?

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Re: Gay marriage protests in California

Postby Clumpy » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:40 am UTC

Green9090 wrote:I just want to go up to that guy and go "Excuse me, can you explain to me why everyone in opposition of gay marriage sounds like an idiot? Is there a reason you don't have any real points to back up your argument?"


Actually, a slim majority of Americans (55%) oppose gay marriage, but only 38% would support an actual amendment banning it nationwide. Out of that 38% I'd guess that about one third are actual bigots, and out of the bigots only the bottom-of-the-barrel dumbest 5% would actually go out and protest. That accounts for the dimwitted douchnozzle we see in the video.
Last edited by Clumpy on Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:44 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Gay marriage protests in California

Postby SPsnow02 » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:44 am UTC

Clumpy wrote:Actually, a slim majority of Americans (55%) oppose gay marriage, but only 38% would support an actual amendment banning it nationwide. Out of that 38% I'd guess that about one third are actual bigots, and out of the bigots only the bottom-of-the-barrel dumbest 5% would actually go out and protest. That accounts for the dimwitted douchnozzle we see in the video.


I'm pretty horrified that the number is that large... I'm from a very hippie-ish town in michigan and 75%+ are probably for gay marrige.
Rawr!

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Re: Gay marriage protests in California

Postby Lucrece » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:47 am UTC

SPsnow02 wrote:
Clumpy wrote:Actually, a slim majority of Americans (55%) oppose gay marriage, but only 38% would support an actual amendment banning it nationwide. Out of that 38% I'd guess that about one third are actual bigots, and out of the bigots only the bottom-of-the-barrel dumbest 5% would actually go out and protest. That accounts for the dimwitted douchnozzle we see in the video.


I'm pretty horrified that the number is that large... I'm from a very hippie-ish town in michigan and 75%+ are probably for gay marrige.


Coming from the state whose legislators promised that, by passing the anti-gay marriage amendments, domestic partner benefits in the workplace and other health benefits wouldn't be touched, only to see these very same people take them up to the Michigan Supreme Court, which invalidated these very same benefits they said would stay intact in order to get people to vote for the amendment. End result? Michigan is legal hell for gay people, no matter what the attitudes may be.
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Re: Gay marriage protests in California

Postby Clumpy » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:49 am UTC

SPsnow02 wrote:
Clumpy wrote:Actually, a slim majority of Americans (55%) oppose gay marriage, but only 38% would support an actual amendment banning it nationwide. Out of that 38% I'd guess that about one third are actual bigots, and out of the bigots only the bottom-of-the-barrel dumbest 5% would actually go out and protest. That accounts for the dimwitted douchnozzle we see in the video.


I'm pretty horrified that the number is that large... I'm from a very hippie-ish town in michigan and 75%+ are probably for gay marrige.


I'm on the other side of that coin - Provo, UT :D . Little of the opposition is actually based on hatred but religious teachings, and I don't fault them on that. Still, I'm of the school of thought that government shouldn't be involved in marrying people at all, but only in recognizing marriages. Marriage between any sort of consenting partners shouldn't be a problem and churches will still have the right to teach any sort of moral behavior they wish within the religious arena.

Of course, I don't drink and yet oppose Utah's ridiculous liquor laws. If something is considered safe for public consumption then it should not be unreasonably restricted. There are just enough paranoid Schlafly-type "world-is-going-down-the-tube" voters to keep our idiot hypocritical, crusading representatives in office.

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Re: Gay marriage protests in California

Postby Green9090 » Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:12 am UTC

Clumpy wrote:
Green9090 wrote:I just want to go up to that guy and go "Excuse me, can you explain to me why everyone in opposition of gay marriage sounds like an idiot? Is there a reason you don't have any real points to back up your argument?"


Actually, a slim majority of Americans (55%) oppose gay marriage, but only 38% would support an actual amendment banning it nationwide. Out of that 38% I'd guess that about one third are actual bigots, and out of the bigots only the bottom-of-the-barrel dumbest 5% would actually go out and protest. That accounts for the dimwitted douchnozzle we see in the video.


If you oppose gay marriage, you are either brainwashed, ignorant, a bigot, or some combination thereof. Prove me wrong.

That said, it doesn't surprise me at all that 55% of Americans are one of those things, and my statement stands. There ARE no good reasons for the government to ban gay marriage. It's total bull shit.
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Re: Gay marriage protests in California

Postby poxic » Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:29 am UTC

Green9090 wrote:That said, it doesn't surprise me at all that 55% of Americans are one of those things, and my statement stands. There ARE no good reasons for the government to ban gay marriage. It's total bull shit.


Fear is usually at the root of people's bigotry. Since what most politicians want is just to get elected, they will cater to identifiable blocks of voters. Fearful voters are identifiable, and may be willing to throw large amounts of cash at a candidate who promises to keep the bogeyman away.

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Re: Gay marriage protests in California

Postby Clumpy » Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:15 am UTC

Well, the mere fact that "homophobic" is the only word bandied around for opponents of gay marriage, it's fair to say that gay rights supporters see fear as their chief obstacle. I doubt that fear is the only factor (or even the primary motivation for most people). After all, if we want to outlaw all things that we find gross, we've got to hit sanitation, the manufacture of maraschino cherries and digestion, for that matter. Personal tastes is not the matter and it may be logical to assume that people without a certain ingrown attraction may find it nonsensical or off-putting. No doubt many gays feel the same way toward heteros.

Green9090 wrote:If you oppose gay marriage, you are either brainwashed, ignorant, a bigot, or some combination thereof. Prove me wrong.


Get off it. I'm open to the idea that there may be legitimate, non-hateful reasons for not accepting gay marriage, or at least allowing it. I haven't heard a good one yet, though. Hmm. . .

I've got one. People named "Francis" or "Toni" or "Kelly" are going to have it hard for the first few years. :lol:

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Re: Gay marriage protests in California

Postby space_raptor » Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:59 am UTC

I ate a whole jar of maraschino cherries one time. That was in my young, experimental days.
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Re: Gay marriage protests in California

Postby Lucrece » Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:20 am UTC

space_raptor wrote:I ate a whole jar of maraschino cherries one time. That was in my young, experimental days.


Cherries? "Experimental"? That sounds like an interesting childhood! :lol:
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Re: Gay marriage protests in California

Postby felltir » Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:40 am UTC

Found this, have to say I rather like it, despite not being american. http://bw.org/gay-marriage.html
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Re: Gay marriage protests in California

Postby CrayolaTwo » Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:02 am UTC

My thoughts!

Probably less than 5% of people in power, whether it be in the government or business, cares about the "moral" problems with gay marriage. They just don't care. Know what they DO care about, and the only somewhat-legitimate disagreement with gay marriage is?

Money. Duh.

For example: my university does not provide benefits for domestic partners, of which the vast majority are gay couples. This saves them a ton of money. Were gay marriages to be recognized in Wisconsin, my university would have to shell out all kinds of money to accommodate those partners. As it is, they only have to worry about all of our gay faculty moving to other colleges (and taking all their grant money with them), which they've been doing.

Companies already don't like giving benefits if they can help it. Of course they're going to resist more people being eligible to receive those benefits. And the government gets more taxes from people if they're not technically "married".

The whole Bible-thumping aspect may get the most press, but it's not the reason that gay marriage is still illegal.

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Re: Gay marriage protests in California

Postby Plustax » Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:01 am UTC

It's probably the most un-American thing I can think of right now. It is crazy to not allow it.

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Re: Gay marriage protests in California

Postby Xaldibik » Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:06 am UTC

I love when people try and use religion against gay people, when most of the time it is Christianity, and Christianity is largely based off of the principle, "Do not judge others."

I am openly bi, and got approached by another student in the bathroom as I was washing my hands, and we got into an argument/debate(I remained civil, he didn't, not sure what it is at that point) about homosexuality and whether it's right or wrong. He used the bible in his defense of hating homosexuality, and when I pointed out that the bible teaches to not judge others, he seemed at a loss to base his attack off of, and proceeded with name calling and personal attacks.

I must say though, the setting was perfect for the discussion.

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Re: Gay marriage protests in California

Postby poxic » Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:31 am UTC

Most people don't like being proven wrong or having to change their minds on anything. On top of that, our brains are very, very good at telling us stories and rationalising things for us.

If I have a negative emotional reaction to something -- let's use homosexuality since it's the topic -- the normal human response (unfortunately) is to grab the first available line of reasoning for why that shouldn't be allowed. If my reasoning is defeated, I find another line, and so forth. The person who defeats all of my reasoning becomes a threat, because now I can't shield myself from my cognitive dissonance. Cognitive dissonance hurts, like a headache does. I (we all) go to any length to avoid it, to convince myself that it doesn't exist because I have GOOD reasons for how I feel! And they are the RIGHT reasons! The shakier the reasons start to look, the more violently I hold to them (unless I find other ones), because I perceive myself to be under threat.

Of course, you can also make a sport of "spot the cognitive dissonance". I once managed to convince myself that, if I really believed that women and men should be treated equally, women should therefore have to register for the draft (this was when I lived in the US). Ow ow ow, that one hurt to think all the way through.
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Re: Gay marriage protests in California

Postby Pixel » Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:57 pm UTC

CrayolaTwo wrote:Money. Duh.


Don't forget that two people who are "single" in the eyes of the government pay more in taxes than a married couple would. And if one of a married couple dies the other inherits with little/no inheritance tax. But if one "single" person wills their estate to another "single" person the government takes a significant slice. etc. etc.

Making gay marriage legal would cost our government taxes & other revenue from gays, who statistically earn more than straight people.
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Re: Gay marriage protests in California

Postby Gunfingers » Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:01 pm UTC

By that logic the government, employers, and universities would all simply stop offering benefits to married couples at all. Then they'd save themselves shit-tons of money.

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Re: Gay marriage protests in California

Postby Pixel » Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:12 pm UTC

Gunfingers wrote:By that logic the government, employers, and universities would all simply stop offering benefits to married couples at all. Then they'd save themselves shit-tons of money.


Except for the complaints, protests and lawsuits from people newly deprived of something they have the "right" to by virtue of being married.

But it also gives those groups (government especially) little incentive to legalize marriage for another big group of people.
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Re: Gay marriage protests in California

Postby Gunfingers » Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:14 pm UTC

Because they aren't getting complaints, protests, and lawsuits from that other big group of people?

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Re: Gay marriage protests in California

Postby segmentation fault » Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:24 pm UTC

Pixel wrote:
CrayolaTwo wrote:Money. Duh.


Don't forget that two people who are "single" in the eyes of the government pay more in taxes than a married couple would. And if one of a married couple dies the other inherits with little/no inheritance tax. But if one "single" person wills their estate to another "single" person the government takes a significant slice. etc. etc.

Making gay marriage legal would cost our government taxes & other revenue from gays, who statistically earn more than straight people.


while the tax revenue from married couples is less, that gives them more disposable income, which lets them buy more stuff, in which whatever they buy from will be earning more income to report on their taxes. dont worry, it gets to the government one way or another.

in addition: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/06/ ... S._4167209
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Re: Gay marriage protests in California

Postby EsotericWombat » Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:51 am UTC

Gunfingers wrote:That dude had an intelligent and well-thought out rebuttal against legalization of gay marriage, and i appreciate his candor.


...you're joking, right?
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Re: Gay marriage protests in California

Postby Pixel » Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:50 am UTC

segmentation fault wrote:while the tax revenue from married couples is less, that gives them more disposable income, which lets them buy more stuff, in which whatever they buy from will be earning more income to report on their taxes. dont worry, it gets to the government one way or another.

in addition: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/06/ ... S._4167209



That assumes our government is capable of doing math & basic logic.
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Re: Gay marriage protests in California

Postby Princess Marzipan » Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:13 pm UTC

EsotericWombat wrote:
Gunfingers wrote:That dude had an intelligent and well-thought out rebuttal against legalization of gay marriage, and i appreciate his candor.


...you're joking, right?


I never doubted he was.
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Re: Gay marriage protests in California

Postby BellaMortis » Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:25 pm UTC

CrayolaTwo wrote:My thoughts!

Money. Duh.


Ding! Ding! Ding!

Yep, that's pretty much the reason behind most of it. Bigotry is a part of it, too, but when you add the fact that every basic right (a.k.a. tax cut) guaranteed by marriage costs the people in power money, you have one big wave of resistance to increase the amount of people married. You gotta love the good ol' American life style of being controlled by the whims of corporations. :roll:

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Re: Gay marriage protests in California

Postby Belial » Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:30 pm UTC

Really? You think they care about the nickels and dimes that they may, possibly, be losing?

And not, say, the fact that if you can get the conservative voter base whipped up over the damn homos destroying marriage, you can draw their attention away from the myriad other ways you're fucking them over?
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Re: Gay marriage protests in California

Postby Vaniver » Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:40 pm UTC

BellaMortis wrote:Yep, that's pretty much the reason behind most of it. Bigotry is a part of it, too, but when you add the fact that every basic right (a.k.a. tax cut) guaranteed by marriage costs the people in power money, you have one big wave of resistance to increase the amount of people married. You gotta love the good ol' American life style of being controlled by the whims of corporations.
Why would corporations resist a tax cut? Their customers have more money to spend.

That said, it would be pretty marvelous if the whole decline in marriage precipitated by the free love era was really a government plot to increase tax revenues.
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