Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

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Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

Postby Princess Marzipan » Sun Jun 29, 2008 6:02 pm UTC

Fucking Florida, man.

Paul Little, AKA "Max Hardcore," has been found guilty on 20 counts of obscenity across five movies that were sold within a particular district in Florida.

People in this country make me sick the way they try to decide what consenting adults can or can't market to each other or choose to purchase. As if they themselves have been personally offended. One of the more sensible jurors said
"I'm just so sorry this happened to you," the woman said, and did in fact hug Little, whose courtroom demeanor had been above reproach. "We tried and we tried and we tried, but we just couldn't get through to those others. They just beat on us and beat on us and beat on us until we gave in."

The jurors indicated that while the five movies, which contained scenes of urination, fisting and vomiting, were not to their taste, they didn't see anything wrong with others watching them if they wanted to, with the foreman commenting, "After all, that's why we have the First Amendment."




Oh, and the court ignored legal precedent, too.
James Komurek, president and owner of JKG, Inc. and Jaded Video, an online retailer, had testified under grant of immunity that his company had done the mailing, and that neither Little nor MWE had had anything to do with choosing either the destination or the method of delivery. Judge Bucklew, however, had found that the mere fact that MWE sold the charged videos to Jaded, which then resold them to postal inspector Linda Walker, was enough to make out a case for "aiding and abetting" the sale, despite a recent 5th Circuit decision in U.S. v. McDowell that had found that a defendant in a similar situation was not guilty of the same crime.

But that was a 5th Circuit decision, Judge Bucklew said, and under case law in the 11th Circuit, where the trial was taking place, the defendants were guilty because they could have "reasonably foreseen" that Jaded would use the U.S. mails to send the DVDs to Tampa. Motion denied.


Ugh.
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Re: Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

Postby Jahoclave » Sun Jun 29, 2008 7:19 pm UTC

Well, I refuse to accept that anything is pornographic until Justice Potter Stewart says it is. And since he's dead he can no longer tell us what is and isn't pornographic.


All I can say is I hope this gets appealed, especially since you have jurors admitting they didn't believe he was guilty and apparently gave in to a guilty verdict in order to end deliberations. I'd have to say I am more upset with those jurors who rather than uphold the constitution against what was an obvious affront in their minds they gave in rather than fight to defend it. I hope none of them go around calling themselves patriotic.

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Re: Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

Postby ParanoidDrone » Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:02 am UTC

So, if I'm reading this right, a porn star was convicted of obscenity in an otherwise perfectly legal porn movie. Um, last I checked, no one is forcing anyone to watch this stuff, so how the hell did anyone have the balls to take this to court?

God dammit, Florida. God dammit.
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Re: Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

Postby 22/7 » Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:35 am UTC

You guys don't honestly think this thing is going to stand, do you? Of course it'll get appealled and of course it'll get overturned. This is just an example of a handful of stupid people doing stupid things. Deep breaths, it'll be ok.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

Postby Quixotess » Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:46 am UTC

If it stands, what's the penalty?

Exactly what is an "obscentiy" charge? Is it one of those exceptions to free speech? If it's a sucky law, then it's a sucky law, but even if the law you broke sucks it's still a law.

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Re: Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

Postby Lucrece » Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:05 am UTC

It's a pity that Europeans had the common sense of kicking all the obnoxious puritans into the American continent. Perhaps if it had been another people that established the country, we wouldn't have this hypocritical brand of puritanism, where the topic of sex is found more offensive than someone being beheaded in a movie/show.
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Re: Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

Postby 22/7 » Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:29 pm UTC

Lucrece wrote:It's a pity that Europeans had the common sense of kicking all the obnoxious puritans into the American continent. Perhaps if it had been another people that established the country, we wouldn't have this hypocritical brand of puritanism, where the topic of sex is found more offensive than someone being beheaded in a movie/show.

I know! Doesn't America suck? Bitch elsewhere.

Some people wouldn't consider two girls one cup to be "sex". Doesn't mean that it's obscenity, but it also doesn't mean that anything that isn't obscenity that is done with naked adults is sex. I doubt we're the first civilization to encompass a handful of civilians who consider someone pissing/vomiting on someone else to be something other than sex.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

Postby segmentation fault » Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:36 pm UTC

Jahoclave wrote:All I can say is I hope this gets appealed, especially since you have jurors admitting they didn't believe he was guilty and apparently gave in to a guilty verdict in order to end deliberations.


why did they give in? if you cant agree on a verdict, isnt that a hung jury and a perfectly acceptable way of ending deliberations? do people really not have any clue about our legal system?
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Re: Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

Postby 22/7 » Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:43 pm UTC

segmentation fault wrote:
Jahoclave wrote:All I can say is I hope this gets appealed, especially since you have jurors admitting they didn't believe he was guilty and apparently gave in to a guilty verdict in order to end deliberations.


why did they give in? if you cant agree on a verdict, isnt that a hung jury and a perfectly acceptable way of ending deliberations? do people really not have any clue about our legal system?

At first, I thought the same thing, but surely these kinds of things would have been explained to them? Surely there's some sort of "training" you go through when you're selected to be a juror?
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

Postby segmentation fault » Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:48 pm UTC

when i was tapped for the jury selection process (i didnt get selected, but i digress) they made us watch a brief video, but i dont remember it ever explaining the hung jury concept now that i think about it.
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Re: Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

Postby Lucrece » Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:24 pm UTC

22/7 wrote:
Lucrece wrote:It's a pity that Europeans had the common sense of kicking all the obnoxious puritans into the American continent. Perhaps if it had been another people that established the country, we wouldn't have this hypocritical brand of puritanism, where the topic of sex is found more offensive than someone being beheaded in a movie/show.

I know! Doesn't America suck? Bitch elsewhere.

Some people wouldn't consider two girls one cup to be "sex". Doesn't mean that it's obscenity, but it also doesn't mean that anything that isn't obscenity that is done with naked adults is sex. I doubt we're the first civilization to encompass a handful of civilians who consider someone pissing/vomiting on someone else to be something other than sex.


I'll bitch where I please. America is not only yours; let's not get greedy.

And when the action is for the purpose of having a fetish, yes, it can be lumped in with the topic of sex.
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Re: Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

Postby 22/7 » Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:07 pm UTC

Lucrece wrote:
22/7 wrote:
Lucrece wrote:It's a pity that Europeans had the common sense of kicking all the obnoxious puritans into the American continent. Perhaps if it had been another people that established the country, we wouldn't have this hypocritical brand of puritanism, where the topic of sex is found more offensive than someone being beheaded in a movie/show.

I know! Doesn't America suck? Bitch elsewhere.

Some people wouldn't consider two girls one cup to be "sex". Doesn't mean that it's obscenity, but it also doesn't mean that anything that isn't obscenity that is done with naked adults is sex. I doubt we're the first civilization to encompass a handful of civilians who consider someone pissing/vomiting on someone else to be something other than sex.


I'll bitch where I please. America is not only yours; let's not get greedy.

And when the action is for the purpose of having a fetish, yes, it can be lumped in with the topic of sex.

Yeah, I'm not an idiot, I get that. Now lets talk about what I actually said. Do you take issue with the statement, "I doubt that we're the first civilization to encompass a handful of civilians who consider someone pissing/vomiting on someone else to be something other than sex"?
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

Postby Lucrece » Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:50 pm UTC

No, I do not take issue with that. I would not say "handful", though.
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Re: Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

Postby 22/7 » Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:55 pm UTC

Lucrece wrote:No, I do not take issue with that. I would not say "handful", though.

Fine 10%, 20%, 30%, more? Who cares? It's going to be a minority (though vocal, aren't they all?) who are going to say "This is a travesty!" and they're going to get someone high enough up to agree (thus, the vocality... shut up FF, that's totally a word), and then it'll go to someone with a brain and they'll strike it down.
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Re: Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

Postby Random832 » Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:24 pm UTC

"I'm just so sorry this happened to you," the woman said, and did in fact hug Little, whose courtroom demeanor had been above reproach. "We tried and we tried and we tried, but we just couldn't get through to those others. They just beat on us and beat on us and beat on us until we gave in."


Who is "they" and what gives them the right to "beat on" (metaphorically, I assume, but still...) jurors? A jury being intimidated into delivering a particular verdict is, you know, kind of seventeenth century.

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Re: Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

Postby 22/7 » Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:10 pm UTC

Random832 wrote:
"I'm just so sorry this happened to you," the woman said, and did in fact hug Little, whose courtroom demeanor had been above reproach. "We tried and we tried and we tried, but we just couldn't get through to those others. They just beat on us and beat on us and beat on us until we gave in."


Who is "they" and what gives them the right to "beat on" (metaphorically, I assume, but still...) jurors? A jury being intimidated into delivering a particular verdict is, you know, kind of seventeenth century.

Really? Other jurors. And this probably isn't all that uncommon when someone gets on the jury that is particularly passionate about the subject at hand.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

Postby TheStranger » Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:11 am UTC

it's a damned shame that the jurors who did not feel he was innocent didn't stand up to the others.
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Re: Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

Postby Gunfingers » Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:59 pm UTC

We should send them each a copy of "12 Angry Men"

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Re: Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

Postby 22/7 » Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:05 pm UTC

Gunfingers wrote:We should each send them each a copy of "12 Angry Men"

Fixed.
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Re: Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

Postby Jahoclave » Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:59 pm UTC

22/7 wrote:
Gunfingers wrote:We should each send them each a copy of "12 Angry Men"

Fixed.

Hey now, they may have fucked up big time, but that's no reason to inflict a fate worse than death on them.

That being said, I can't afford 12 copies...

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Re: Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

Postby 22/7 » Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:15 pm UTC

Jahoclave wrote:
22/7 wrote:
Gunfingers wrote:We should each send them each a copy of "12 Angry Men"

Fixed.

Hey now, they may have fucked up big time, but that's no reason to inflict a fate worse than death on them.

That being said, I can't afford 12 copies...

Nor can I. Unfortunate, too. It would be nice to be able to afford that.
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Re: Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

Postby segmentation fault » Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:22 pm UTC

4 years for exercising 1st amendment rights. wow.

porn: bad. torture: ok.
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Re: Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

Postby Lumpy » Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:56 pm UTC

speaking of
porn: bad. torture: ok.


I probably would have weakly and stupidly given in if the other jurors made me watch it over and over again until I went along with them, too.

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Re: Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

Postby zahlman » Tue Oct 07, 2008 10:34 pm UTC

It's ridiculous that this guy is being charged, let alone convicted for *distribution*, yes; but aren't there several charges they could lay instead regarding his *production* methods? I've heard lots of not-nice things there.

Also, how could the foreman of the jury say "After all, that's why we have the First Amendment" while also condemning the guy?
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Re: Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

Postby Cheshire Smile » Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:47 pm UTC

This does not surprise me... he was convicted in the Middle District of Florida, which includes Collier County, in which we have, drumroll please...

....

..........

...............

Ave Maria! Catholic town of Catholic values and Catholics and CatholicisssmmmmM! WHOOOOOO! Porn bad, no porn for you!

...seriously, guys, there's a reason they call this lovely state of mine Flori-duh.
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Re: Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

Postby lorenith » Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:05 am UTC

Cheshire Smile wrote:
...seriously, guys, there's a reason they call this lovely state of mine Flori-duh.


That's a pretty bad joke I must say.

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Re: Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

Postby Cheshire Smile » Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:56 am UTC

Bad, maybe, but true. The amount of stupidity I see in this state...
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Re: Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

Postby Kain » Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:23 am UTC

I take offence to the OP's title {do you have to rub our flaws in our face?}... well, not really, but still, lol

lorenith wrote:
Cheshire Smile wrote:
...seriously, guys, there's a reason they call this lovely state of mine Flori-duh.


That's a pretty bad joke I must say.


Cheshire Smile wrote:Bad, maybe, but true. The amount of stupidity I see in this state...


A) I assume you mean in central and northern florida. S.Fl gets an excemption.
B) I though we called it Flori-duh becuase of good ol' Jeb?

That said, it would not surprise me at all if the same people who are arguing that certain varieties of porn are outside the realm of the bill of rights protections are the same people arguing that the second rights guarantees gun ownership in all cases.
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Re: Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

Postby lorenith » Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:28 am UTC

If I recall correctly the right way to say Florida (in Spanish?), is with an emphasis on the ri, so it would be pronounced Flow-ree-dah.

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Re: Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

Postby Kain » Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:35 am UTC

More correctly Flor-ree-da, with a rolled r connecting the first and second syllables, and a soft e sound in the second sylable. Though even that is off...

And we digress...
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Re: Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

Postby Cheshire Smile » Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:41 am UTC

Kain wrote:A) I assume you mean in central and northern florida. S.Fl gets an excemption.
B) I though we called it Flori-duh becuase of good ol' Jeb?


a) I'm from central Florida, so, yes.

b) Jeb was before my time...I came to FLorida about three months before Crist was elected.

Anyway, I just think this is all so ridiculous. Unless it's real snuff, real rape, or real child pornography, I honestly don't think the law should give a damn about this man's porn makings. As long s everyone in the films was of age and consenting, then just don't watch it if it's not your thing. Years in jail for making and distributing porn...it's ridiculous.
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Re: Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

Postby lorenith » Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:42 am UTC

Well to be ontopic, what happened in the OP is, well it makes no sense at all for what I know about the judicial system. It seems like something broke pretty hard core.

Also, the whole Florida thing, I guess I'm just trying to say "Flori-duh" is probably closer to the correct pronunciation than most people think.

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Re: Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

Postby Kain » Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:01 am UTC

Re Cheshire: shuuuunnnnn the non-florida native... wait, whats this, you bring money? nevermind! enjoy our hospitality!

Re lorenith: Flori-duh is an acceptable pronouciation in English, as is (sadly) flor-Y-duh (not the spanish pronounciation, but a anglicied version)

on topic: if our legal system was entirely based on the constitution, then yes, something just broke. unfortunantly, the constitution is vague (actually, maybe fortunantly), and each state is able to make their own laws, within reason (I dont study law, but I have read some of my dad's law books, looking for ways to break contracts and such). Thus, the constitution guarantees some rights, but the states may define ways that the rights are guaranteed less if it can be said that other rights of the public are better allowed to be exercised.
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Re: Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

Postby Cheshire Smile » Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:17 am UTC

Kain wrote:Re Cheshire: shuuuunnnnn the non-florida native... wait, whats this, you bring money? nevermind! enjoy our hospitality!


Oh, and I'm the worst kind of non-native. Before I moved here, I lived 18 years on Long Island, New York. Horrible accented, bad driving, annoying liberal New Yorker! And I'm broke. :P I was going to a $40,000-a-year private college on a scholarship.
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Re: Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

Postby lorenith » Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:27 am UTC

Yeah, but the people being accused of stuff don't even make any sense. It's like...if they blamed children eating ice cream, for an increase of drownings in the summer or something...

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Re: Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

Postby Cheshire Smile » Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:36 am UTC

lorenith wrote:Yeah, but the people being accused of stuff don't even make any sense. It's like...if they blamed children eating ice cream, for an increase of drownings in the summer or something...


Well, yeah... ice cream causes kids to be fat. Fat kids get hot more than skinny kids, so they go swimming more often. But because they're so fat, they block the lifeguards' views of the skinny kids, who end up drowning before anyone notices.

Duuuhhhhh. What part of that doesn't make sense? ;)
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Re: Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

Postby lorenith » Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:50 am UTC

Oh silly me! :P

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cerbie
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Re: Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

Postby cerbie » Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:06 am UTC

It looks to me like a good old fashion witch hunt. Only, instead of witches that might steal your baby, or turn your daughter into a loose woman, it's people that get turned on by digestive disgorgement. :| That doesn't seem dramatic enough for a witch hunt, does it?

The whole thing reads as a big reflective green WTF sign planted in the middle of a highway (I didn't see this link elsewhere in the thread).

I know it's wrong to, but I love TSG, and that has got to be one of the most vague legal documents I've seen there. It timidly speaks :evil:: "What can we do to stop him? Do we have a law that can use personal judgement, and conservative social pressures, to lock him up? Oh, we do, Mr. District Attourney? Awahahaha. Now, let me get back to my urineless midget rock opera asphyxiation DVD." (I'm imaginging this as an extra twisted Kids In The Hall sketch, silly devil outfit and all, on my mind's junior community theater stage...if that helps at all)

22/7 wrote:why did they give in? if you cant agree on a verdict, isnt that a hung jury and a perfectly acceptable way of ending deliberations? do people really not have any clue about our legal system?
No, and it is in the interest of conviction for them not to. I didn't even get a video, when I got called up in my state. Such concepts as hung jury, jury nullifaction, or any other minor annoyance to the prosecuter? Nope. I'm not in FL, but this is a common problem. Look up drug cases and jury nullification on Google for many weeks of reading material. Ultimately, AFAIK, it is the juror's responsibility to know, the juror's responsibility to share that knowledge with other jurors, if needed; and, it can only lead to appeal if the jury is given instructions that would deny them the right to give a decision based on their own morals (depending on the details, this may very well apply).

Old folks apparently expect such ideas to have been taught to us young punks in civics...I didn't know anything about any of it until I read an article about a guy that was given a not guilty for killing a neighbor's dog, that inspired some researching on my part. This was before I'd seen, "12 Angry Men," BTW.
Last edited by cerbie on Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:23 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
DSenette: (...) on the whole, even a trained killer cow is kind of stupid.

Joeldi
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Re: Porn Star/Producer Convicted of Obscenity in (obv) FL

Postby Joeldi » Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:22 am UTC

I'm a little uncertain on what actually happened here. What was he actually charged with? Obscenity sounds to me like a misdemeanor that would never get to court where I am, yet some people have mentioned gaol. Please elaborate thx
I already have a hate thread. Necromancy > redundancy here, so post there.

roc314 wrote:America is a police state that communicates in txt speak...

"i hav teh dissentors brb""¡This cheese is burning me! u pwnd them bff""thx ur cool 2"

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cerbie
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Postby cerbie » Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:01 am UTC

Joeldi wrote:I'm a little uncertain on what actually happened here. What was he actually charged with? Obscenity sounds to me like a misdemeanor that would never get to court where I am, yet some people have mentioned gaol. Please elaborate thx
He commercially distributed obscene matter, using the Post Office (sort of). That's really bad. Obscenity has few strict rules, relying, instead, on a community standards sort of fuzzy rule making framework (can you tell IANAL, at this point? :wink:). I start getting lost shortly beyond that, honestly. I tried reading the laws referred to, and might need a straight jacket for the next few days.

The negative to it is that it can be used, in situations where it causes social disgust/anxiety (IE, vomit a turn-on?!), as a sledge, when nothing else will do, and you want something done about this outrage.

Obscenity charges that get into the news generall fall categories that can be responded to with either:
A) "No wonder we don't yet have a law against that. I wouldn't re-elect a bastard that could even think of something like that existing!"
B) *roll eyes, put face down into hand, shake head* "Don't they see that it's weird, but not wrong? Fark is gonna love this."
DSenette: (...) on the whole, even a trained killer cow is kind of stupid.


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