Store refuses to customize cake (Adolf Hitler Campbell)

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Store refuses to customize cake (Adolf Hitler Campbell)

Postby PictureSarah » Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:21 pm UTC

...because said kid's name is Adolf Hitler.

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/today/i ... angry.html

I think they should have made the cake...it's not the kid's fault that his parents have their head so far up their respective asses that they failed to realize how miserable the lives of their kids are going to be until they are old enough to either change them and GTFO or turn out just like their parents and only hang out with people who also think those names are pretty spiffy.
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Re: Grocery store refuses to customize kid's cake

Postby Princess Marzipan » Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:46 pm UTC

I am very tired of people assuming there is a right not be offended.

This really isn't that far a cry from refusing to print the name "Hussein" on a cake. It's ridiculous, and printing the name on the kid's cake does nothing to further anything Aryan.
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Re: Grocery store refuses to customize kid's cake

Postby 22/7 » Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:49 pm UTC

PictureSarah wrote:...because said kid's name is Adolf Hitler.

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/today/i ... angry.html

I think they should have made the cake...it's not the kid's fault that his parents have their head so far up their respective asses that they failed to realize how miserable the lives of their kids are going to be until they are old enough to either change them and GTFO or turn out just like their parents and only hang out with people who also think those names are pretty spiffy.
Uh, shit. The kids names are "JoyceLynn Aryan Nation Campbell, Honszlynn Hinler Jeannie Campbell and Adolf Hitler Campbell". Fuck. Those. Parents.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Grocery store refuses to customize kid's cake

Postby Tag » Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:02 pm UTC

Mm, I think I'm inclined to agree with the store. Certainly they should have the right to - they are a private business, entitled to take or refuse whatever business they like, provided that this doesn't amount to unlawful discrimination.

If this was a coincidence - a family with the surname Hitler who had somehow given their child the name Adolf for no polemic reason, perhaps because it's a traditional family name - I'd be inclined to agree with you; but it isn't. It's a family - not even with obvious German connections - who have deliberately given the child the name 'Adolf Hitler', and a sibling the middle names 'Aryan Nation', apparently to make some kind of political point. No, the child doesn't deserve to be punished for his parents' decision - but then it's not the child who's complaining. I don't think he's old enough either to know the full significance of his name, or to worry that his cake hasn't been inscribed with his full name (I'm sure that the shop would be happy to make it out to "Adolf Campbell"). It's the parents who decided to name him this, and the parents who are making the fuss about the cake.

I think they deserve to learn sooner rather than later that, while they may be legally entitled to give their child this name, that doesn't require other private citizens and businesses to take part in their game, protest, or whatever it is.

The child doesn't deserve to be punished now or ever; but there's still time for his name to be changed by his parents, and when he's old enough to worry about it he'll be able to choose to use another name - and it will be purely his parents' decision whether they support him in this.

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Re: Grocery store refuses to customize kid's cake

Postby Princess Marzipan » Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:10 pm UTC

So it's okay to discriminate against people for political beliefs?
Tag wrote:It's a family ... who have deliberately given the child the name 'Adolf Hitler', ... apparently to make some kind of political point.
Tag wrote:they are a private business, entitled to take or refuse whatever business they like, provided that this doesn't amount to unlawful discrimination.

I would qualify discrimination regarding apparent political beliefs as unlawful.
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Re: Grocery store refuses to customize kid's cake

Postby 22/7 » Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:19 pm UTC

Nougatrocity wrote:So it's okay to discriminate against people for political beliefs?
Tag wrote:It's a family ... who have deliberately given the child the name 'Adolf Hitler', ... apparently to make some kind of political point.
Tag wrote:they are a private business, entitled to take or refuse whatever business they like, provided that this doesn't amount to unlawful discrimination.
I would qualify discrimination regarding apparent political beliefs as unlawful.
Really? Last time I checked "I hate niggers" isn't a "political belief".
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Grocery store refuses to customize kid's cake

Postby H.E.L.e.N. » Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:19 pm UTC

@Noug: That's an awfully low-key way to put it. I think there is some difference between "difference of political beliefs" and "implicit endorsement of genocide," and I can see some justification for a business not to want to do business in something perceived as the latter.

But yeah, just don't include the kid's middle name, it's not his fault.

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Re: Grocery store refuses to customize kid's cake

Postby Princess Marzipan » Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:23 pm UTC

22/7 wrote:Really? Last time I checked "I hate niggers" isn't a "political belief".

And "Adolf Hitler" isn't a racial slur.
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Re: Grocery store refuses to customize kid's cake

Postby 22/7 » Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:26 pm UTC

It sounds to me like the parents wanted only the kid's middle name (Adolf Hitler) to be included on the cake. They're getting a kick out of their kid having the name Adolf Hitler, which is fine, but it's not really surprising or a big deal that this grocery store refused to do it. In addition, the parents are more interested in making some kind of a fuss than they are getting their kid a cake from said grocery store, because the store offered to bake a cake and leave enough room for the kid's name to be applied by the parents, who refused. Nothing like leveraging your kid for a local news story.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Grocery store refuses to customize kid's cake

Postby JBJ » Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:29 pm UTC

Nougatrocity wrote:I am very tired of people assuming there is a right not be offended.

This really isn't that far a cry from refusing to print the name "Hussein" on a cake. It's ridiculous, and printing the name on the kid's cake does nothing to further anything Aryan.


You're absolutely correct, there is no right protecting us from being offended. However, we do have a right to refuse to participate in what we perceive to be an offensive situation. I think the store acted well within their right.

What if I wanted a birthday cake that said "F^%# You", would the store have the right to refuse? I would think so, and there wouldn't have been any coverage or outrage.
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Re: Grocery store refuses to customize kid's cake

Postby Tag » Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:31 pm UTC

I would qualify discrimination regarding apparent political beliefs as unlawful.


Really? Do you think that if, say, you run a print shop and someone comes in with the copy for the latest Ku Klux Klan Weekly, you should be legally obliged to lay it out and print it? I don't. Arguably you shouldn't be allowed to stop people expressing their views; but that doesn't mean that, as a private individual or business, people should be able to compel YOU to express their views.

As to law, I can't comment; though I note that California at least still requires an oath from all state employees (including university lecturers and the like) that they have not been members of political groups with certain aims.

But yeah, just don't include the kid's middle name, it's not his fault.


Absolutely, that would solve it completely, assuming good faith all round. I'm willing to bet, though, that the parents would not stand for it; which would demonstrate that what they were actually interested in is not getting a cake for their child, but playing political games using their child as a pawn. If this is not the case, and they would accept "Adolf Campbell", I apologise to them and they probably have a fair point; but I suspect that were that the case this story would never have been a story.

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Re: Grocery store refuses to customize kid's cake

Postby 22/7 » Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:38 pm UTC

Nougatrocity wrote:
22/7 wrote:Really? Last time I checked "I hate niggers" isn't a "political belief".
And "Adolf Hitler" isn't a racial slur.
Nobody's claiming it is, but Adolf Hitler and Aryan Nation are very strongly associated with white power/supremacy/etc. groups who, in turn, are very strongly associated with racism, bigotry, hate crimes and so on, and the store doesn't want to be associated with that. And I believe* that's their right. Are you claiming a law has been broken?

The naming was intentional, as was calling the press after the grocery store refused to print "Adolf Hitler" on a Happy Birthday cake but offered to leave room on the cake for them to put Adolf Hitler themselves. The parents are interested in the publicity and the cause, not their kid.

I've been getting ninjad in this thread constantly.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Grocery store refuses to customize kid's cake

Postby Princess Marzipan » Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:47 pm UTC

Huh. I appear to have misread the article.

I thought the STORE refused the idea of a cake with room for writing.
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Re: Grocery store refuses to customize kid's cake

Postby 22/7 » Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:50 pm UTC

Ok, so let's think about this one for a moment.
The article wrote:The Campbells turned down the market's offer to make a cake with enough room for them to write their own inscription and can't understand what all of the fuss is about.
Really? You can't understand what all the fuss is about, which is why you turned down the store's offer to work with you and called the press?
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Grocery store refuses to customize kid's cake

Postby Grop » Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:52 pm UTC

In my country (and, I expect, in several countries) it would be illegal* to name a child like that. I don't miss this kind of freedom.

* (We don't have a list of forbidden names, but administration clerks are supposed to refuse foolish names).

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Re: Grocery store refuses to customize kid's cake

Postby Quixotess » Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:40 pm UTC

Yeah, this is sort of where I expect smug asshole parents are behind making a big huge stink about the store exercising their right to refuse business. They probably think that by taking it to the press they'll get what they want - the cake, and attention. They're probably trying to raise awareness about all the discrimination against white supremacists, to which I say, bite me. I'm sure it's completely illegal and unethical, but this is where I wish we could start investigating that family for child abuse.
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Re: Grocery store refuses to customize kid's cake

Postby Indon » Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:10 pm UTC

Man, I feel bad for Adolf Hitler... Campbell.

>.>

Heck, the other poor kids while they're at it. It's like the parents don't realize they're raising human beings.
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Re: Grocery store refuses to customize kid's cake

Postby Intercept » Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:21 pm UTC

I remember there was another thread in this forum where a (I believe Australian) girl, took her parents to court, or had them taken to court over their name. I hope something similar happens in this situation, but I'm sure the children don't even understand the significance of their names, or worse, have been indoctrinated into supporting them. And yes I am a fan of commas.
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Re: Grocery store refuses to customize kid's cake

Postby Rysto » Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:23 pm UTC

Intercept wrote:I remember there was another thread in this forum where a (I believe Australian) girl, took her parents to court, or had them taken to court over their name.

It was in New Zealand.

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Re: Grocery store refuses to customize kid's cake

Postby sje46 » Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:35 pm UTC

Intercept wrote:I remember there was another thread in this forum where a (I believe Australian) girl, took her parents to court, or had them taken to court over their name. I hope something similar happens in this situation, but I'm sure the children don't even understand the significance of their names, or worse, have been indoctrinated into supporting them. And yes I am a fan of commas.

I bet the kid grows into a neo-nazi. Which is unfortunate, or course.

I don't think any rights here were broken at all, but of course there were moral trangressions on both sides. The store should have let them have cake, and the parents should rot in hell for existing treat their kid like a normal human being. Of course. So I don't really think there is a legal case here.

But you have to think about the store in the eyes of the community. It woulda been cool if they could have wrote "Happy Birthday Adolf Campbell!" , but the parents wanted the Hitler. Even if the store wanted to follow teh family's wishes, would it be a smart thing to do? People would have rallied against them, refusing to employ neo-nazis to make their cakes. But by following this decision, they have the community mostly on their side.

Also, dang. Was just about to post this article on here. Luckily I used the search feature.
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Re: Grocery store refuses to customize kid's cake

Postby cwoodin » Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:40 pm UTC

I'm just waiting for the girl at school in a few years to come home to her parents and say "Mom, Dad, I'm in love with Adolph Hitler!"

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Re: Grocery store refuses to customize kid's cake

Postby william » Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:20 pm UTC

Nougatrocity wrote:
22/7 wrote:Really? Last time I checked "I hate niggers" isn't a "political belief".

And "Adolf Hitler" isn't a racial slur.

No, it's the name of a guy who killed a lot of people.
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Re: Grocery store refuses to customize kid's cake

Postby Lycur » Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:49 pm UTC

william wrote:
Nougatrocity wrote:
22/7 wrote:Really? Last time I checked "I hate niggers" isn't a "political belief".

And "Adolf Hitler" isn't a racial slur.

No, it's the name of a guy who killed a lot of people.


No, it's the name of the guy who was at the head of a government brought to power by bigotry, hatred and desperation that killed alot of people. [pet peeve]Laying the holocaust at Hitler's feet overlooks the anti-democratic, hate fueled politics he represented[/pet peeve]

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Re: Grocery store refuses to customize kid's cake

Postby The Reaper » Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:56 pm UTC

I hope he turns into a civil rights activist, just to spite his parents. He can do it during his teenage years, when one normally "fights the man", aka, one's parents.

I tend to shove "aryan nation" type people in the same pile as I do "other racist people with no actual reason for being that way".

I'm not sure what an actual reason would be o_O

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Re: Grocery store refuses to customize kid's cake

Postby Jebobek » Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:00 pm UTC

I can always rely on the N+A forum to send me on a magical adventure to Righteous Indignationland. :D

The kids should be OK in school if the middle names are removed or hidden.

JoyceLynn Campbell, Honszlynn Campbell and Adolf Campbell aren't the worst names ever.
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Re: Grocery store refuses to customize kid's cake

Postby roc314 » Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:25 pm UTC

Jebobek wrote:The kids should be OK in school if the middle names are removed or hidden.

JoyceLynn Campbell, Honszlynn Campbell and Adolf Campbell aren't the worst names ever.
I wouldn't count on the middle names remaining hidden, though. It's far too difficult to hide something like that indefinitely.

And when it does get out, it would royally suck to be the kid who everyone finds out is named after Hitler. He'd get bullied so much.
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Re: Grocery store refuses to customize kid's cake

Postby Jebobek » Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:29 pm UTC

True, and I'm pretty sure that an online artile on their names does not help worth a damn either.
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Re: Grocery store refuses to customize kid's cake

Postby segmentation fault » Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:31 pm UTC

roc314 wrote:And when it does get out, it would royally suck to be the kid who everyone finds out is named after Hitler. He'd get bullied so much.


but its possible this could be an area where white supremacy is the norm, so the people there might think his name is actually cool.

but seriously, why would you fucking name your kids that?
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Re: Grocery store refuses to customize kid's cake

Postby Quixotess » Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:36 pm UTC

'Parently the town is 98.1% white, so maybe...

(Edit for cite. So that data is based on the 2000 census.)
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Re: Grocery store refuses to customize kid's cake

Postby JoshuaZ » Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:54 pm UTC

Would we feel differently if a business refused to put the names on of children who had names from a certain ethnic group? Would we want that to be legal? I'm not sure. In the United States at least we have federal laws prohibiting businesses from discriminating based on race. So what precisely is the difference? My intuition says there is a difference but it isn't clear to me what it is.

Incidentally, I'm also not sure that refusing to put the name down is the best long-term strategy. It likely will fuel any persecution complexes that the family already has. I'm aware of only one person who came from a very racist background and ended up becoming more or less not racist. And that was because he joined the army and saw there that in general people from other races were ok and that moreover the people who weren't racists were less likely to be jerks than the other racists. That sort of change isn't as likely to occur when one has people acting like this store.

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Re: Grocery store refuses to customize kid's cake

Postby sje46 » Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:46 pm UTC

roc314 wrote:
Jebobek wrote:The kids should be OK in school if the middle names are removed or hidden.

JoyceLynn Campbell, Honszlynn Campbell and Adolf Campbell aren't the worst names ever.
I wouldn't count on the middle names remaining hidden, though. It's far too difficult to hide something like that indefinitely.

And when it does get out, it would royally suck to be the kid who everyone finds out is named after Hitler. He'd get bullied so much.

He'll get bullied enough as it is being named "Adolf".
I bet kids will call him Adolf Hitler Campbell before they even know that's his actual middle name.
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Re: Grocery store refuses to customize kid's cake

Postby Malice » Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:18 pm UTC

JoshuaZ wrote:Would we feel differently if a business refused to put the names on of children who had names from a certain ethnic group? Would we want that to be legal? I'm not sure. In the United States at least we have federal laws prohibiting businesses from discriminating based on race. So what precisely is the difference? My intuition says there is a difference but it isn't clear to me what it is.


You can't choose your race. You can choose not to be an evil fucktard. It's probably wrong to refuse to make a cake for the child, because he didn't get to choose his name; but in this case the injured parties are the parents, so I don't see an issue.

Incidentally, I'm also not sure that refusing to put the name down is the best long-term strategy. It likely will fuel any persecution complexes that the family already has. I'm aware of only one person who came from a very racist background and ended up becoming more or less not racist. And that was because he joined the army and saw there that in general people from other races were ok and that moreover the people who weren't racists were less likely to be jerks than the other racists. That sort of change isn't as likely to occur when one has people acting like this store.


Unless they're requesting a cake from an ethnic bakery, I don't see how this store being nice to them is going to make this family any less hateful of other races. If anything, the social disapproval of other whites should be a positive influence.
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Re: Grocery store refuses to customize kid's cake

Postby oxoiron » Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:21 pm UTC

Indon wrote:Man, I feel bad for Adolf Hitler... Campbell.
He'll be fine.
Young Adolf Hitler Campbell will be getting a cake from Wal-Mart this year.
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Re: Grocery store refuses to customize kid's cake

Postby Kizyr » Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:35 pm UTC

JoshuaZ wrote:Would we feel differently if a business refused to put the names on of children who had names from a certain ethnic group? Would we want that to be legal? I'm not sure. In the United States at least we have federal laws prohibiting businesses from discriminating based on race. So what precisely is the difference? My intuition says there is a difference but it isn't clear to me what it is.

To bring up the earlier example, there's a huge difference between having the name "Hussein" and having the name "Adolf Hitler" on a cake. "Hussein" is still an extremely common name to several ethnic groups (I know about 2-3 personally, and at least another dozen on TV and film, including one very attractive BBC anchor, but that's another story). (...actually, even "Osama" isn't that uncommon--I know a couple myself.)

"Adolf Hitler" is not a common name--not anymore--and the parents naming their kid Adolf Hitler isn't some accident or coincidence. It's a specific statement and the store made the conscious choice not to do something that would further that statement.

So, it's not a question of discrimination against any particular ethnic group. The only question is whether or not the store has a right to refuse to do something that it finds objectionable. There are some cases where a store would have the right (this I'd argue is one of them), and others where a store may not have the right (e.g., a pharmacist refusing to sell contraceptives). KF
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Re: Grocery store refuses to customize kid's cake

Postby Intercept » Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:34 am UTC

The Reaper wrote:I tend to shove "aryan nation" type people in the same pile as I do "other racist people with no actual reason for being that way".


Let's leave the daughter out of this. It's not her birthday, give the boy some attention!
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Re: Grocery store refuses to customize kid's cake

Postby Xeio » Wed Dec 17, 2008 2:48 am UTC

Who wants to start a fund to pay for their name changes when they turn 18? :P

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Re: Grocery store refuses to customize kid's cake

Postby Indon » Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:07 am UTC

oxoiron wrote:He'll be fine.


Sure, until he stops being a toddler and starts interacting with human beings outside his family and/or tiny insular community.

That's why I feel sorry for him and his siblings.
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Lucrece
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Re: Grocery store refuses to customize kid's cake

Postby Lucrece » Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:25 am UTC

The talk so far has touched on legality and politics. What has called my attention, though, is how no one has mentioned that the government should intervene in this naming. They are going to cause these children terrible psychological and physical peril at the hands of classmates and peers during their developmental years.
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Re: Grocery store refuses to customize kid's cake

Postby sje46 » Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:30 am UTC

Lucrece wrote:The talk so far has touched on legality and politics. What has called my attention, though, is how no one has mentioned that the government should intervene in this naming. They are going to cause these children terrible psychological and physical peril at the hands of classmates and peers during their developmental years.

But if this happens, it's not the parents' fault. Ir is the school children's.
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Re: Grocery store refuses to customize kid's cake

Postby psyck0 » Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:04 am UTC

So what? There is a precedent of a government intervening in a kid's name and allowing a young child to change it, but I'll be damned if I can remember what or where it was.


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