Nukewaste wrote: Malice wrote: Izawwlgood wrote:
Malice wrote:I think they should ignore Hamas completely and do what's best for the people of Gaza.
But Israel's basically been 'ignoring' the missiles coming from Gaza for the last 5ish years, if not much longer. This isn't an isolated incident, Israel didn't start this campaign because of a 'couple missiles'.
So? Yes, there has been about 1000 missiles (apparently really piss-poor ones, because they've still only killed like less than 20 people). That's a lot! I'm not suggesting that Israel ignores that. I'm suggesting that if they actually want the missiles to stop, they have either make nice or kill everyone. Of the two, making nice is harder, but it'll come out better in the long run.
Don't mistake the ability to kill with the intent to.
Just because Hamas and other terror organizations in Gaza aren't very good at killing Israeli citizens, that doesn't mean they aren't trying to.
If I put a gun to your head and pull the trigger, but the gun doesn't work, the cops don't say "Oh, well, all's well that ends well! Tata!" They arrest me for attempted murder.
Metaphor failure. Cops have overwhelming force and the goodwill of the population. Imagine instead there's a ghetto area where cops fear to tread, and occasionally the people in the ghetto get mad and fire a few random bullets off into the surrounding neighborhood. And then one of the bullets almost hits somebody. Do the cops go in and try to find that person, knowing it's going to piss off the locals and potentially lead to a riot? Or do they let it fucking slide? International relations do not easily compare to police actions.
And if you listen to Hamas, and their view of thing, you know they basically exist only to destroy Israel. So yes, making nice is infinitely harder when the people you're trying to negotiate with have sworn themselves to your death.
I keep saying, make nice with the people, not Hamas. Fuck Hamas.
All the 'making nice' of the past 8 years, including removal of the settlements in 2005, and the continued supply of electicity and food and medicine from Israel to the strip, has only increased the number of rockets fired, and made Hamas think they were on the right track, all along.
I know the rockets have gone up, but do you have any citation for the last part? Because absent one I can think of several other explanations, including, "Israel refuses to go away, let's send more rockets".
So talking really isn't an option, which unfortunately leaves only one. And if you turn on the news, there it is.
And it isn't an option either. So there you go.
Fett42 wrote:If you're Israel I don't know how you can justify to your people NOT taking military action at this point when people are making this much of an attempt to kill them. As was pointed out, intent is what matters. Why wait until they get more effective?
"Waiting" isn't an option. Killing a few of them isn't an option either. There has to be a better way. Build higher walls, bring in the UN, make steel umbrellas, bribe them, put snipers on border-towers with orders to shoot anybody with a rocket, fly helicopters over Gaza and shoot anybody with a rocket, something
besides A) doing nothing and B) wiping them off the map and C) rolling in and flexing your muscles because none of those three are workable options in the long run.
Also, the IDF reports that the rate of rocket attacks is now 50% of what it was before the beginning of Operation Cast Lead.
And sure, that works now. But until they leave, their soldiers will continue to die, and after they leave, the rockets will go way the fuck back up because every Johnny Palestine has seen the hated Jews bust into his home and beat up his uncle and shoot his friends and ruin his livelihood and now there's nothing better for him to do than pick up a rifle or a rocket and hurt them back.
It's the same damn thing that happened in Iraq. You can't fight terror like that, you have to get at the source, and the source of terror is unhappy people with nothing better to do than avenge their dead families. Making more dead families is never going to fix it. Never.