BBC refuses to show aid appeal for Gazans

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BBC refuses to show aid appeal for Gazans

Postby Amoeba » Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:23 pm UTC

Due to concerns over impartiality, Auntie won't broadcast an appeal for aid: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7846150.stm

Except the decision 'taken with other broadcasters' has now been broken by at least two (edit: three - ITV is also) of them: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7848673.stm

I don't think the BBC's right here; as some people have said, trying to help people who are suffering is not a partisan issue. They're people and they need aid. Y'know, fairly quickly. It's as simple as that. Having said that, I also don't think that the decision not to show the appeal advert will make a particular difference. Thoughts?
Last edited by Amoeba on Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:11 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BBC refuses to show aid appeal for Gazans

Postby Darkscull » Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:43 pm UTC

I think the whole thing is silly.

Israel can't deny that people are having a hard time over there, so it's not disagreeing with them to want to help.

Israel insists that it doesn't want civilians to suffer, and although they quite obviously do (in my opinion), lets take them at their word and try to stop that suffering.

Seems to me that someone in the BBC is of the "Israel only ever defends themselves and would never do anything bad, even by mistake, so the palestinians must be putting it on" school of thought.
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Re: BBC refuses to show aid appeal for Gazans

Postby Hyphe » Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:59 pm UTC

Darkscull wrote:Seems to me that someone in the BBC is of the "Israel only ever defends themselves and would never do anything bad, even by mistake, so the palestinians must be putting it on" school of thought.


I wouldn't have said that at all (though of course it might be completely true). I'd say that, considering all the flak the BBC has got recently over things it has broadcast, someone has erred too far on the side of caution.

The decision not to show the advert *will* make a difference; fewer people will see it, so fewer people will donate. That said, this row has probably given the appeal quite a lot of publicity it wouldn't have got otherwise.

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Re: BBC refuses to show aid appeal for Gazans

Postby Izawwlgood » Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:35 pm UTC

Darkscull wrote:Seems to me that someone in the BBC is of the "Israel only ever defends themselves and would never do anything bad, even by mistake, so the palestinians must be putting it on" school of thought.


This person must have gotten lucky having their opinion pushed through then; BBC has, in my opinion, been pretty scathing on the reporting of the last 3-4 wks activity.
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Re: BBC refuses to show aid appeal for Gazans

Postby Darkscull » Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:51 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:
Darkscull wrote:Seems to me that someone in the BBC is of the "Israel only ever defends themselves and would never do anything bad, even by mistake, so the palestinians must be putting it on" school of thought.


This person must have gotten lucky having their opinion pushed through then; BBC has, in my opinion, been pretty scathing on the reporting of the last 3-4 wks activity.


I think the people who decide whether these things get shown or not are different to those who decide what is covered in the news. not sure though.

also, all BBC news things tend not to state facts, they just pick someone and say they said it happened.
so they're more covering the fact that aid agencies and the UN are complaining about the humanitarian situation rather than covering the actual situation.
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Re: BBC refuses to show aid appeal for Gazans

Postby wst » Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:29 am UTC

I don't particularly mind. In fact, I wouldn't have heard about this Aid thing until this thread appeared.

On the 'Israel are being cocks' thing, the Hamas are the fuckers who are firing missiles out of residential areas. Either way, Israel gets buttfucked. Either they retaliate and kill noncoms along with some missile dudes and their launcher, or they don't and get missiles so far up their arse it's impacting on their stomach. Israel can't send in elite forces to kill just the missile/Hamas, that would constitute an invasion. The Palestinians need to get the Hamas and beat the fuck out of them themselves, or they're going to keep getting missiled by Israel.
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Re: BBC refuses to show aid appeal for Gazans

Postby Jesse » Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:38 am UTC

You can take that discussion to the relevant SB thread or wherever. IT IS NOT HAPPENING IN THIS THREAD. -Jesse

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Re: BBC refuses to show aid appeal for Gazans

Postby wst » Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:52 am UTC

Jesse wrote:You can take that discussion to the relevant SB thread or wherever. IT IS NOT HAPPENING IN THIS THREAD. -Jesse
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Re: BBC refuses to show aid appeal for Gazans

Postby dic_penderyn » Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:55 am UTC

I agree with Izawwlgood.
The BBC have been very critical of Israel in the current conflict. It is also worth noting that the other big news agency SKY News, has also decided not to show the appeal clip.
Without actually seeing the clip I can only speculate as to the actual content. Perhaps it contains political undertones or other material that does not belong there.
If it was just an appeal for help in Gaza, I dont think the BBC or SKY would have had an issue with it.
That fact that they seem to have found issue, leads me to suspect that it contains something other than just a charity appeal.

Does anybody have an actual link of the appeal video in question?

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Re: BBC refuses to show aid appeal for Gazans

Postby Amoeba » Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:15 am UTC

I can't find the video on either the DEC website or their youtube channel, but I find it hard to believe that a group comprised of so many charities would try to put out an appeal with political undertones (I could be wrong - it'll be broadcast on Monday, so I'll have a look then). I also suspect that if it were Israelis being killed on such a scale the appeal would be shown.
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Re: BBC refuses to show aid appeal for Gazans

Postby aleflamedyud » Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:06 pm UTC

Well of course Sky won't show it; Rupert "Fucking Asshole" Murdoch owns Sky.

And if the Beeb won't show it, well... it's probably because there are a lot of fake charities that smuggle weapons into Gaza under the guise of humanitarian aid. Hell, there are fake charities like that all over the world; it's the reason you have to check into who someone is before donating to them. But who knows?

Finally, the BBC has a bias: it is anti-Israel. This is not my opinion, it is the conclusion of an internal investigation they did into the matter themselves. Regardless of that, they almost always convey the simple facts of the matter satisfactorily, and I see no reason to seriously criticize the BBC over any of this.
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Re: BBC refuses to show aid appeal for Gazans

Postby Darkscull » Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:10 pm UTC

aleflamedyud wrote:Well of course Sky won't show it; Rupert "Fucking Asshole" Murdoch owns Sky.

And if the Beeb won't show it, well... it's probably because there are a lot of fake charities that smuggle weapons into Gaza under the guise of humanitarian aid. Hell, there are fake charities like that all over the world; it's the reason you have to check into who someone is before donating to them. But who knows?

Finally, the BBC has a bias: it is anti-Israel. This is not my opinion, it is the conclusion of an internal investigation they did into the matter themselves. Regardless of that, they almost always convey the simple facts of the matter satisfactorily, and I see no reason to seriously criticize the BBC over any of this.


depends on your definition of anti-Israel I suppose.

The facts on their own paint a rather negative picture of Israel. in order for viewers to come away from watching the news with a neutral opinion of Israel you'd have to either leave stuff out or make stuff up :razz:

edit for disclaimer:

by "neutral opinion of Israel" I mean opinion of Israel's actions in gaza.
After all, that's what is relevant to the appeal.
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Re: BBC refuses to show aid appeal for Gazans

Postby aleflamedyud » Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:00 am UTC

Darkscull wrote:
aleflamedyud wrote:Well of course Sky won't show it; Rupert "Fucking Asshole" Murdoch owns Sky.

And if the Beeb won't show it, well... it's probably because there are a lot of fake charities that smuggle weapons into Gaza under the guise of humanitarian aid. Hell, there are fake charities like that all over the world; it's the reason you have to check into who someone is before donating to them. But who knows?

Finally, the BBC has a bias: it is anti-Israel. This is not my opinion, it is the conclusion of an internal investigation they did into the matter themselves. Regardless of that, they almost always convey the simple facts of the matter satisfactorily, and I see no reason to seriously criticize the BBC over any of this.


depends on your definition of anti-Israel I suppose.

The facts on their own paint a rather negative picture of Israel. in order for viewers to come away from watching the news with a neutral opinion of Israel you'd have to either leave stuff out or make stuff up :razz:

edit for disclaimer:

by "neutral opinion of Israel" I mean opinion of Israel's actions in gaza.
After all, that's what is relevant to the appeal.

Say what you want about this Gaza thing. The BBC did their own internal investigation a good while before the Gaza war and found that the Beeb has a slight-but-detectable anti-Israel bias. It's not so bad as to stop them being a valid source, but it's there. Feh.

EDIT: I will now go to sleep on grounds that I used "there" instead of "their".
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Re: BBC refuses to show aid appeal for Gazans

Postby Dream » Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:06 am UTC

This is the editorial comment from the Independent, which I think is quite insightful:
There can be no denying the terrible suffering the Israeli assault on Gaza left in its wake. Homes are flattened, schools and hospitals have been bombed and a people left traumatised. So equally, there can be no denying that there is a pressing need for aid, and we are highly sympathetic to the appeal – especially when there is little evidence that, in the short term, any emergency relief would provide succour to Hamas.

But however much we support the appeal's cause, it does not follow that the BBC is bound by some moral imperative to broadcast it. The Corporation could rightly argue that it is laying itself open to endless pressures to broadcast appeals were it to do so. And as one of the world's most respected newsgathering and broadcasting organisations, it does not need the responsibility of arbitrating which deserving causes should win its endorsement.

The Corporation is clearly sensitive to the wider implications of engaging in third-party-led activities. It is for these reasons that the BBC administers, leads and supports other acts of charitable giving through the Children in Need and Comic Relief appeals, giving money to good causes only after robust due-diligence has been undertaken. While no one questions the excellent motives of those behind the Gaza appeal, the BBC also feels that it must take account of the political complexities that broadcasting such an appeal may entail. So what must be done?

One option for the director-general, Mark Thompson, is to admit that even the BBC may have made a bad call, albeit for defensible reasons. Another might be for the BBC to reconcile its decision to stand by the ban and ally the strong feelings of members of the public by providing information about ways to contribute to the Gaza appeal, as they have done during disaster appeals in the past.


So, basically it isn't about partiality on this one issue, but about remaining above the fray in terms of all crises equally. They have probably said no to less high profile initiatives than this one many times over the years, and if they were to break that policy in this case, it should not be without great diligence in ascertaining the merits of such a decision. Looking bad next to those who broadcast the appeal is not a good reason to jump before looking.
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Re: BBC refuses to show aid appeal for Gazans

Postby dic_penderyn » Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:44 am UTC

SKY news have finally made a decision.

They are NOT going to show it either.
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-New ... al_In_Gaza

They have spent three whole days bashing BBC for the decision, and then they follow suit. :roll:

Sky is getting more like Faux news every day.

D.

Edited to add:

aleflamedyud Wrote:

Say what you want about this Gaza thing. The BBC did their own internal investigation a good while before the Gaza war and found that the Beeb has a slight-but-detectable anti-Israel bias. It's not so bad as to stop them being a valid source, but it's there. Feh.


That's twice you have stated this in this thread. Can you provide a link please.

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Re: BBC refuses to show aid appeal for Gazans

Postby Dream » Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:00 am UTC

dic_penderyn wrote:They have spent three whole days bashing BBC for the decision, and then they follow suit. :roll:

Sky is getting more like Faux news every day.

Of course Sky is private, and doesn't have a mandate to do anything except make money. I'm guessing they are after the veneer of respectability that comes with impartiality so strict that you won't even help a charity. That'll last about until they go after their next paedophile, or cheerlead for a missing child.
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Re: BBC refuses to show aid appeal for Gazans

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:18 pm UTC

dic_penderyn wrote:That's twice you have stated this in this thread. Can you provide a link please.


http://www.honestreporting.com/articles ... taries.asp

The phrase 'BBC anti-israel bias' brings up a slew of articles, that's the first I saw that wasn't from a Jewish media source in case of, uh, 'anti-BBC anti-israel bias'.

I don't think it is a news agencies place to cull for charities, but that said, I recall seeing Red Cross mailing addresses all over print and visual news sources during Katrina. It's an interesting journalistic issue.
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Re: BBC refuses to show aid appeal for Gazans

Postby Dream » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:53 pm UTC

The BBC doesn't advertise anything of any kind. It doesn't take commissions, or make anything at all for money. The only thing it does is screen television programmes that fulfill its remit. So if it broadcast this, it would be making it an editorial position.
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Re: BBC refuses to show aid appeal for Gazans

Postby Darkscull » Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:01 pm UTC

Dream wrote:The BBC doesn't advertise anything of any kind. It doesn't take commissions, or make anything at all for money. The only thing it does is screen television programmes that fulfill its remit. So if it broadcast this, it would be making it an editorial position.


the bbc shows adverts between programmes, and receives money for them.

The only difference between them and other channels in that respect is that they don't have breaks during programmes.
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Re: BBC refuses to show aid appeal for Gazans

Postby dic_penderyn » Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:28 pm UTC

Darkscull wrote:
Dream wrote:The BBC doesn't advertise anything of any kind. It doesn't take commissions, or make anything at all for money. The only thing it does is screen television programmes that fulfill its remit. So if it broadcast this, it would be making it an editorial position.


the bbc shows adverts between programmes, and receives money for them.

The only difference between them and other channels in that respect is that they don't have breaks during programmes.


To clarify:

The BBC does NOT show adverts between programs and does NOT receive money.
The BBC DOES however advertise its own programmes between programmes.

I just thought I would clear that up.

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Re: BBC refuses to show aid appeal for Gazans

Postby Darkscull » Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:50 pm UTC

dic_penderyn wrote:
Darkscull wrote:
Dream wrote:The BBC doesn't advertise anything of any kind. It doesn't take commissions, or make anything at all for money. The only thing it does is screen television programmes that fulfill its remit. So if it broadcast this, it would be making it an editorial position.


the bbc shows adverts between programmes, and receives money for them.

The only difference between them and other channels in that respect is that they don't have breaks during programmes.


To clarify:

The BBC does NOT show adverts between programs and does NOT receive money.
The BBC DOES however advertise its own programmes between programmes.

I just thought I would clear that up.

D.


Really?

Wow, I knew I didn't pay attention during breaks but I didn't know it was that bad. I literally thought they showed normal adverts.

I'm sure I read something about their income coming from ad revenue as well, but apparently not.
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Re: BBC refuses to show aid appeal for Gazans

Postby Amoeba » Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:36 am UTC

Darkscull wrote:
Dream wrote:The BBC doesn't advertise anything of any kind. It doesn't take commissions, or make anything at all for money. The only thing it does is screen television programmes that fulfill its remit. So if it broadcast this, it would be making it an editorial position.


the bbc shows adverts between programmes, and receives money for them.

The only difference between them and other channels in that respect is that they don't have breaks during programmes.


BBC Worldwide does, I believe. Are you from the UK?
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Re: BBC refuses to show aid appeal for Gazans

Postby dic_penderyn » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:14 am UTC

Yes, I am in Wales.

I didn't know that BBC worldwide did that.

There is a saying here in the UK:

BBC: bringing quality content to eyeballs
Everything else: bringing eyeballs to advertisers

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Re: BBC refuses to show aid appeal for Gazans

Postby Darkscull » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:51 am UTC

Same here.

I can't believe I've spent 20 in this world and a lot of them watching the bbc, and I didn't realise they didn't show commercial adverts.
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Re: BBC refuses to show aid appeal for Gazans

Postby sparks » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:59 am UTC

The BBC are being morons. I don't understand how completely overlooking the fact that there are people suffering and pretending everything's fine will show 'impartiality', because that just pretty much shows siding up with Israel. If they were indeed impartial, they'd show the appeal regardless of it being issued by Palestine or Israel or whoever. Gazans are in trouble, and acting like they're not under the excuse of impartiality is pretty much bullsh*t.

Also, I can see how it would make a difference. The BBC is still pretty popular in the UK.
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Re: BBC refuses to show aid appeal for Gazans

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:11 pm UTC

Man, people are suffering everywhere. Not to say that the Gazans aren't suffering, but what, should a news agency turn into a 24/7 appeal for aid to the various needy causes around the world? And how do you determine who gets more air time for causes, by population? By 'horrible-ness'? By lack of funding?
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Re: BBC refuses to show aid appeal for Gazans

Postby Amoeba » Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:18 pm UTC

Darkscull wrote:Same here.

I can't believe I've spent 20 in this world and a lot of them watching the bbc, and I didn't realise they didn't show commercial adverts.


Really? It's kinda well known...

And here's the appeal itself: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=miXFNHxVJ5o
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Re: BBC refuses to show aid appeal for Gazans

Postby aleflamedyud » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:03 am UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:Man, people are suffering everywhere. Not to say that the Gazans aren't suffering, but what, should a news agency turn into a 24/7 appeal for aid to the various needy causes around the world? And how do you determine who gets more air time for causes, by population? By 'horrible-ness'? By lack of funding?

Perhaps to make sure they only air appeals for the right causes they should hire someone with a PhD in horrible-ness to rate prospective charitable appeals.
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Re: BBC refuses to show aid appeal for Gazans

Postby Of Negligible Mass » Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:52 am UTC

Darkscull wrote:Same here.

I can't believe I've spent 20 in this world and a lot of them watching the bbc, and I didn't realise they didn't show commercial adverts.


And there was me thinking you were making a pithy comment about the licence fee...
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