One School Beats Another School At Sporting Event

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One School Beats Another School At Sporting Event

Postby lesliesage » Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:35 pm UTC

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Re: Christian school beats learning-disabled 100-0, basketball

Postby Darkscull » Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:40 pm UTC

I bet you the movie rights have already been snatched up.
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Re: Christian school beats learning-disabled 100-0, basketball

Postby Babam » Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:57 pm UTC

That is just unsportsmanlike.
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Re: Christian school beats learning-disabled 100-0, basketball

Postby Mabus_Zero » Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:02 pm UTC

Cue Special Olympics line?
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Re: Christian school beats learning-disabled 100-0, basketball

Postby sje46 » Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:03 pm UTC

This reminds me of a specific South Park episode.
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Re: Christian school beats learning-disabled 100-0, basketball

Postby segmentation fault » Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:08 pm UTC

a wins a win, right?
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Re: Christian school beats learning-disabled 100-0, basketball

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:14 pm UTC

I was shocked and dismayed that the coach of the winning team was reprimanded for winning. What a horrible message to send these athletes (both teams), that winning by your best is something to be ashamed of.
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Re: Christian school beats learning-disabled 100-0, basketball

Postby sje46 » Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:17 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:I was shocked and dismayed that the coach of the winning team was reprimanded for winning. What a horrible message to send these athletes (both teams), that winning by your best is something to be ashamed of.

Winning by your best wasn't necessary.
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Re: Christian school beats learning-disabled 100-0, basketball

Postby IggyJack » Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:33 pm UTC

*sigh* From what i read, that disabled team hasnt won a game in the four years that they have been around. Wanna go up against me on this? Search it on Yahoo!News. The program was costing them money so they decided to cut the program itself. Listen, i'm aware that it's a learning disabled team, however, they've been through this, they know how to play and they didnt bring their best performance. No one should be punished for playing their hearts out, neither team should. The coach of the other team was fired for that score. I have a feeling im going to get flamed.
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Re: Christian school beats learning-disabled 100-0, basketball

Postby Princess Marzipan » Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:33 pm UTC

Was this discussed beforehand? Is there an actual agreement anywhere that playing against the learning disabled team means that your team can't actually try its hardest? That it can win BUT NOT BY TOO MUCH?

I mean, if there IS such an agreement across the organization, fine. It sounds like there really isn't, or that it was unspoken. Being angry at the winning team is completely asinine.
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Re: Christian school beats learning-disabled 100-0, basketball

Postby william » Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:34 pm UTC

What I want to know is why the fuck there wasn't a mercy rule.
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Re: Christian school beats learning-disabled 100-0, basketball

Postby psyck0 » Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:42 pm UTC

There is nothing against the rules in what they did. It was simply despicable conduct. They deliberately humiliated a group of children who are already stigmatized and marginalized. It was uncalled for.

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Re: Christian school beats learning-disabled 100-0, basketball

Postby 0range » Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:46 pm UTC

psyck0 wrote:There is nothing against the rules in what they did. It was simply despicable conduct. They deliberately humiliated a group of children who are already stigmatized and marginalized. It was uncalled for.


Yeah, but at least the kids probably didn't realize what was happening.
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Re: Christian school beats learning-disabled 100-0, basketball

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:47 pm UTC

sje46 wrote:Winning by your best wasn't necessary.


I disagree.

Also, lets be clear about what 'learning disabled' means for these kids. The losing school, AFAIK, wasn't an institution for downs syndrome kids, they have ADD or dyslexia.

Look, it's the same league. This isn't a charity event, this isn't a 'game for special needs children', this is a scholastic league game. If you think your kids are being emotionally battered by volunteering to play for a team sport that they suck at, don't let them play, start them in their own league, or play other schools with similar 'special needs'. I find the notion of punishing a winning team for winning by to much to be patently ridiculous.

The winning team did not ridicule, did not embarass, and did not humiliate the other team in any way aside from beating them. Comon, I've had plenty of games where we got our asses handed to us, you don't bitch and moan about it, you thank the team for giving it their all and letting you get better.
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Re: Christian school beats learning-disabled 100-0, basketball

Postby psyck0 » Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:50 pm UTC

0range wrote:
psyck0 wrote:There is nothing against the rules in what they did. It was simply despicable conduct. They deliberately humiliated a group of children who are already stigmatized and marginalized. It was uncalled for.


Yeah, but at least the kids probably didn't realize what was happening.

That is a disgusting comment. Have you ever interacted with anyone with a learning disability in your life?

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Re: Christian school beats learning-disabled 100-0, basketball

Postby Darkscull » Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:50 pm UTC

I think it would be worse if the winning team held back. I mean, how patronising is that?

The coach of the learning disabled team said they did their best, and carried on fighting till the end. He's proud of them, and I'm as proud as I can be of them having not heard of them before.

100-0 does seem like overkill, but the most sportsmanlike way of playing a game is not to aim to beat the other side, but to aim to score as many points as possible while trying to stop points being scored against you. If you do that well, you win, if the other team does it not very well, you win.
This means that you don't stop once you've won, you keep up trying to score points and stop points being scored against you. If you don't need to be doing the latter so much, then you end up doing the former more.

It may not seem that different, but it does make a difference when deciding the morality of things like this, in my opinion.
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Re: Christian school beats learning-disabled 100-0, basketball

Postby william » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:06 am UTC

Also, did the Christian school not have any scrubs? I mean, whenever UNC gets a huge lead on someone they always bring in the scrubs.
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Re: Christian school beats learning-disabled 100-0, basketball

Postby sje46 » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:15 am UTC

psyck0 wrote:
0range wrote:
psyck0 wrote:There is nothing against the rules in what they did. It was simply despicable conduct. They deliberately humiliated a group of children who are already stigmatized and marginalized. It was uncalled for.


Yeah, but at least the kids probably didn't realize what was happening.

That is a disgusting comment. Have you ever interacted with anyone with a learning disability in your life?

Very disgusting.

I was learning disabled, and had to go to a special study. I noticed that there were three types of people there. People with serious mental problems, like Down's Syndrome, etc, people who were probably in the normal range of intelligence but didn't try hard enough and were probably coded errorneously as ADD (or maybe they do have ADD but still they don't try), and smart kids like me, who needed no help and simply had a slight speech impediment. In fact, a lot more are in the third group (and the second) then you may think.

Also, I think even people with Down Syndrome would know what is going on.

I think it would be worse if the winning team held back. I mean, how patronising is that?
About as patronizing as pretending not to be able to see your five year old daughter when she is hiding under the coffee table while playing hide and go seek. It is okay to let kids when board games, and it is okay to let down your ability if you are playing against a terrible team.

Izawwlgood wrote:
sje46 wrote:Winning by your best wasn't necessary.


I disagree.

Also, lets be clear about what 'learning disabled' means for these kids. The losing school, AFAIK, wasn't an institution for downs syndrome kids, they have ADD or dyslexia.

Look, it's the same league. This isn't a charity event, this isn't a 'game for special needs children', this is a scholastic league game. If you think your kids are being emotionally battered by volunteering to play for a team sport that they suck at, don't let them play, start them in their own league, or play other schools with similar 'special needs'. I find the notion of punishing a winning team for winning by to much to be patently ridiculous.

The winning team did not ridicule, did not embarass, and did not humiliate the other team in any way aside from beating them. Comon, I've had plenty of games where we got our asses handed to us, you don't bitch and moan about it, you thank the team for giving it their all and letting you get better.

I know what learning disabl3ed means, thank you very much. I make the inference that their disability affects their ability to play. I could be wrong. They could be mentally challenged, or they can all have ADD. That isn't the point. Even if they do not suffer a significant disability, they are still terrible players, and crushing them is not necessary. Why would it be? Be on your A game when fighting against the A teams. IF the other team is terrible, win, but you don't have to crush them. It is unnecessary. The game is more fun if the other team catches up a bit. If you are in pro sports, crush them; you 'll get paid more.

You don't know if they meant to humiliate them or not. It doesn't matter. They still may have unintentionally. Cool, if the team didn't complain. They are good sports. All I'm saying is that it is not necessary to completely dominate the other team.
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Re: Christian school beats learning-disabled 100-0, basketball

Postby Princess Marzipan » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:23 am UTC

Would it have been better if they'd only won 2-0?
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Re: Christian school beats learning-disabled 100-0, basketball

Postby JayDee » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:28 am UTC

It wouldn't have been anywhere near as funny if they'd only won 2-0, that's for sure.
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Re: Christian school beats learning-disabled 100-0, basketball

Postby Princess Marzipan » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:30 am UTC

You sure?

100-0 points out that the losing team's offense and defense suck. 2-0 points out that the losing team's offense is of literally no consequence.

But hey at least it's not 100-0, because THAT WOULD BE RUDE, right?
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Re: Christian school beats learning-disabled 100-0, basketba

Postby lesliesage » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:39 am UTC

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Re: Christian school beats learning-disabled 100-0, basketball

Postby Princess Marzipan » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:54 am UTC

I actually am looking just at the score black-and-whitely. I guess it's different if the winners actually thought this meant they were skilled or anything, though.
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Re: Christian school beats learning-disabled 100-0, basketba

Postby lesliesage » Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:15 am UTC

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Re: Christian school beats learning-disabled 100-0, basketball

Postby Pez Dispens3r » Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:22 am UTC

The final score isn't cricket*, but I think more people are seeing the 'learning-disabled' bit and not seeing enough of the '8 chosen from 20 girls at the school' bit. It says in the article that the 'learning-disabled' boys team got a win, because they have a pool of over a hundred male students to pick that team from.

*For the Americans, 'that's not cricket' means 'that's not sportsmanlike.'
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Re: Christian school beats learning-disabled 100-0, basketba

Postby lesliesage » Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:43 am UTC

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Re: Christian school beats learning-disabled 100-0, basketball

Postby Pez Dispens3r » Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:30 am UTC

Maybe it's just an Australianism... but I don't like to assume, 'cause often we stole it off someone else and claim it as our own... like Russel Crowe.
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Re: Christian school beats learning-disabled 100-0, basketball

Postby Princess Marzipan » Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:31 am UTC

Pez Dispens3r wrote:Maybe it's just an Australianism... but I don't like to assume, 'cause often we stole it off someone else and claim it as our own... like Russel Crowe.

And also that one hot chick.
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Re: Christian school beats learning-disabled 100-0, basketball

Postby Telchar » Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:11 am UTC

I also read a statement from the coach on USAToday, I think, where he said he basically played conservative ball up until the half, and then cycled his 2nd and 3rd string players and played aggressive defense. How else do you play that? There is no mercy rule, do you tell your kids to not shoot? Do you just play D and embaress them that way?

It's not a good situation to put those kids in. I'd be mad at administrators.
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Re: Christian school beats learning-disabled 100-0, basketba

Postby lesliesage » Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:12 am UTC

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Re: Christian school beats learning-disabled 100-0, basketball

Postby 22/7 » Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:56 pm UTC

I'd like to throw my hat in the ring here. No basketball game where the final score is 100-0 is sportsmanlike. The coach obviously ran up the score, and he should be reprimanded for it. I once watched a Duke game where the fans were screaming for 100 points to be reached with about 60 seconds left and the score at 98-65. Coach K did the sportsmanlike thing and demanded that none of his players shoot the ball. There is no reason to shoot the ball. This is seen throughout time-based sports. If you're up by 20 points with a few minutes in a football game, you don't throw long passes to the sidelines to get as many scores in as possible before time expires, you run the ball to eat up the clock and in the final 30 seconds or so, you take a knee and congratulate the other team. Same goes for basketball. You're up 20 points with a few seconds left, you dribble the ball until the clock expires, you don't drive the basket and dunk it over some guy's head. The goal of sport is not to score as many points as possible or keep your opponent from scoring as many points as possible. The goal is to win the game. They could have easily done this with a score of 50-0.

One last thing. I've seen a few arguments that reprimanding someone for "playing their best" or some other nonsense is asinine or stupid or whatever else. You're wrong. The opponent has to be considered. I don't care if you're playing against the school for people with learning disabilities or the school for the blind or the 90s Bulls, if you're running up the score, you're guilty of unsportsmanlike conduct. Period.
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Re: Christian school beats learning-disabled 100-0, basketball

Postby Iori_Yagami » Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:14 pm UTC

This so reminds me of my 2nd school year, where due to poorly planned lesson times, we were paired up to play with 5th grade every week.
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Re: Christian school beats learning-disabled 100-0, basketball

Postby 22/7 » Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:16 pm UTC

You guys didn't have scheduled activities for gym class?
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Christian school beats learning-disabled 100-0, basketball

Postby Maurog » Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:29 pm UTC

Eh, 22/7 you describe a last-minute thing, and that's all fine. But what do you do when you're up 30-0 and the first half isn't over yet? Do you tell your players to run in circles around the other team lazily slapping away their pathetic attempts to reclaim the ball for half of the game?

What's the sportsmanlike thing to do?
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Re: Christian school beats learning-disabled 100-0, basketball

Postby Jebobek » Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:37 pm UTC

I agree with 22/7 here. From my gradeschool and highschool basketball experience, I've seen how the unspoken mercy rule works. When you get up high enough, you take out the starters, and turn off the pressure. Maurog, look at the article again.
"They are really good," Civello said. "Their point guard is terrific. This is what it came down to in the second half: steal at half court and layup. Steal and layup. Steal and layup. It was a layup drill. They finally eased up when they got to 100 with about four minutes left." Covenant's point guard had 48 points.
It does not matter how the team usually plays. And it does not matter if the score was 37-0 or 137-0. You send your players back on defense and have them play zone. Tell them to put their hands up. Force the losing team to dribble outside the 3-point line and shoot farther shots. As a result, the clock runs. That would have been the sportsmanlike thing to do; even if it would result in airballs.
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Re: Christian school beats learning-disabled 100-0, basketball

Postby 22/7 » Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:44 pm UTC

The sportsmanlike thing to do is run out the clock. You pass the ball until the shot clock is at ~3 seconds and then have someone shoot the ball. You don't be particularly worried about rebounds and you go back and play defense and do the whole thing over again. Once you realize it's going to be a blowout (probably around the 20-0 point, actually), you play conservatively.

Ninja'd by Jebobek. WOW. They're up by roughly 50 points at half time and they're still running a full-court press? No, I'm sorry, this is not sportsmanlike, it's not a good thing. The coach should have been fired. I'll say it again, the coach should have been fired.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Christian school beats learning-disabled 100-0, basketball

Postby Jebobek » Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:56 pm UTC

In my highschool league, we did not use shot clocks; I have only seen them in college basketball. This has a big affect because we actually took advantage of this and held the ball from the other team for upwards of minutes. Does anyone live nearby or know if there even was a shotclock?
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Re: Christian school beats learning-disabled 100-0, basketball

Postby 22/7 » Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:58 pm UTC

The only high school basketball game I went to when I was living in Dallas included a shot clock, but it was at a very small school and not actually in Dallas. I'm not sure what league these guys are in or whether or not they have a shot clock, but it's a nonissue. The coach acted like a douchebag and deserves to be fired.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Christian school beats learning-disabled 100-0, basketball

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:36 pm UTC

When I first made varsity sports, I wasn't a starter. I'd get cycled in as the game went on, but even during blowout games, when we were up by a crazy margin, or even down by a crazy margin, I wouldn't want the coach to swap all the backups in. Sure, maybe this coach shouldn't have run a full-court press, and maybe he could have focused on defense, but he didn't, and that's his call. If he had backed off and subbed his entire lineup with benchwarmers, or said, 'hey, we're so far up, fuckit, lets stop trying', that would have been unsportsmanlike.
I remember in a water polo game, being down 15-20 pts (which is pretty big), at the last 5 minutes the coach subbed the entire backup squad in, cycling out the varsity guys who until now, had been in the entire game minus a few minutes here and there. The entire team was outraged, and I feel rightfully so.
The issue of the other team being 'special needs' has, as lesliesage rightfully put it, largely only been added for sensationalism.
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

psyck0
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Re: Christian school beats learning-disabled 100-0, basketball

Postby psyck0 » Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:41 pm UTC

Putting your subs in isn't "not trying". You tell your subs to play their best. It's giving them practice and experience.


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