High School Students Blackmailed and Raped

Seen something interesting in the news or on the intertubes? Discuss it here.

Moderators: Zamfir, Hawknc, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
Aikanaro
Posts: 1801
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:43 pm UTC
Location: Saint Louis, MO

Re: High School Students Blackmailed into Gay Sex

Postby Aikanaro » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:03 am UTC

Even a trusted friend/significant other might stupidly share it or post/place it somewhere they shouldn't, like on a Myspace or Facebook that they think is secure. Or you/they might accidentally send it to the wrong person. There's a lot that can go wrong, and even if the odds are slim, it only has to happen once. Expected value theorem states that it's a bad idea. If you want to give a friend/significant other naked pictures of yourself, do it in person. Internet + Personal Nudity = Bad Idea.
Dear xkcd,

On behalf of my religion, I'm sorry so many of us do dumb shit. Please forgive us.

Love, Aikanaro.

User avatar
Belial
A terrible sound heard from a distance
Posts: 30450
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:04 am UTC
Contact:

Re: High School Students Blackmailed into Gay Sex

Postby Belial » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:17 am UTC

Ahh, so what he really *meant* to say is that sending naked pictures might be an embarassing faux pas.

Because what I heard was "It's their own damn fault". Because that was what he said.

Silly me.
addams wrote:A drunk neighbor is better than a sober Belial.


They/them

User avatar
Aikanaro
Posts: 1801
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:43 pm UTC
Location: Saint Louis, MO

Re: High School Students Blackmailed into Gay Sex

Postby Aikanaro » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:23 am UTC

I trust Pa-Patch will forgive me for putting words in his* mouth, but I'd like to think that I interpreted more what he probably meant, seeing as how he thanked me for my earlier statement about sending the pictures being a bad idea. There was also the fun side tangent about people being to blame/not to blame, to what extent you can both feel sorry for someone AND think they're a moron, etc., etc..

*Forgive me if I guessed gender incorrectly.
Dear xkcd,

On behalf of my religion, I'm sorry so many of us do dumb shit. Please forgive us.

Love, Aikanaro.

User avatar
Amnesiasoft
Posts: 2573
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 4:28 am UTC
Location: Colorado
Contact:

Re: High School Students Blackmailed into Gay Sex

Postby Amnesiasoft » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:30 am UTC

I give it a week until someone charges the victims with some form of child porn charges.

User avatar
Aikanaro
Posts: 1801
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:43 pm UTC
Location: Saint Louis, MO

Re: High School Students Blackmailed into Gay Sex

Postby Aikanaro » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:32 am UTC

No, that would take focus away from being able to attack homosexuality as a corrupting influence.
Dear xkcd,

On behalf of my religion, I'm sorry so many of us do dumb shit. Please forgive us.

Love, Aikanaro.

User avatar
Amnesiasoft
Posts: 2573
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 4:28 am UTC
Location: Colorado
Contact:

Re: High School Students Blackmailed into Gay Sex

Postby Amnesiasoft » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:42 am UTC

Don't you see, this is the perfect opportunity to say homosexuality causes pedophilia! Or something...

...well, it doesn't have to make sense.

User avatar
PhatPhungus
Posts: 321
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:40 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: High School Students Blackmailed into Gay Sex

Postby PhatPhungus » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:12 am UTC

I'm definitely going to have to take pa-patch's side on this one.

There are definitely things that you can do that won't necessarily harm you, but have a high likelihood of doing so, and by doing these actions, the actors are taking some responsibility for whatever outcome it is, regardless of whether it's because of someone else's actions that harm comes to them.

For example, I think it's fair to say that if someone runs through a war zone, it's their own damn fault they got shot, even if it was someone else who shot them.

If you walk around town naked, and a picture of it appears on the internet, it's your own damn fault.

If you send pictures of yourself to someone online who you've never met, it's your fault that they end up in the hands of someone you didn't want them to be in, and given that by taking the course of action, responsibility has been accepted, the boys should have been prepared to decide whether to allow them to be released to the school or to engage in sex acts for camera. I think most people would decide that the former is very much preferable.

That being said, it's not their fault at the exclusion of the perpetrator, and the degree of this fault varies greatly. For example, it's a minor fault for a soldier to accidentally shoot some idiot running through a war zone (this is assuming you accept his role in the war to be acceptable, which we will do for the purposes of this argument). It's more of a fault to take someone's picture while they were walking around town naked, and it's definitely more of a fault to trick someone into sending naked pictures of themselves to you.

The man who did the tricking certainly did a major wrong (being someone who believes that there is that of god (using god to mean goodness, not God), I cannot condemn him entirely), and if I believed in the principal of punishment (haven't decided if I do), then I would say he deserves the punishment.

However, the victims made a very serious mistake, and have something serious to learn from it. The mistake has been more than its own punishment, so it would be ridiculous to punish them more (as I think Pa-Patch and others would agree), and they were probably pretty naive, so that mutes the gravity of the mistake somewhat, but again, it is a very serious mistake.

We should not criminalize the victim, but putting a victim on a pillar of purity is not something we should do either.
__________
_____
__
_

User avatar
Pa-Patch
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:16 am UTC
Location: Winnipeg, MB

Re: High School Students Blackmailed into Gay Sex

Postby Pa-Patch » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:13 am UTC

Aikanaro wrote:I trust Pa-Patch will forgive me for putting words in his* mouth, but I'd like to think that I interpreted more what he probably meant, seeing as how he thanked me for my earlier statement about sending the pictures being a bad idea. There was also the fun side tangent about people being to blame/not to blame, to what extent you can both feel sorry for someone AND think they're a moron, etc., etc..

*Forgive me if I guessed gender incorrectly.


No, you've been doing a better job of phrasing my ideas than I have been tonight. I made that first line more inflammatory than I should have, definitely.

I certainly do stand by the idea that if you don't want pictures of yourself on the internet naked, it's not a good idea to send them to someone you've never met. It was not very bright of the students to do so if they wouldn't be able to handle those pictures getting out there. Just in case: I do not think this means you deserve to be raped. I do not mean that rapists are any less to blame if their victims engaged in behavior that increased the risk. I'm just trying to say that people should be allowed to disagree with poor judgment even if it ends tragically.

I was also voicing "blame" primarily on the victims because, well, I just sort of assumed no one disagreed that coercive rape is bad. I didn't think anything needed to be said there.

User avatar
PictureSarah
Secretary of Penile Nomenclature
Posts: 4576
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:37 pm UTC
Location: Sacramento, CA
Contact:

Re: High School Students Blackmailed into Gay Sex

Postby PictureSarah » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:18 am UTC

I don't dress particularly immodestly. I try not to walk in less-populated places alone after dark. I don't accept drinks from strangers, and I don't get drunk if I am not among people I trust. I am not promiscuous. I have been raped by three different men.

Common sense is a good thing to use to try and keep oneself safe, but NONE of the responsibility lies with the victims here. They should be able to post naked pictures of themselves wherever they choose and not be raped if they want to. These acts were the responsibility of the rapist, and nobody else.
"A ship is safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."

User avatar
Quixotess
No. Cookies.
Posts: 3243
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 7:26 am UTC
Contact:

Re: High School Students Blackmailed into Gay Sex

Postby Quixotess » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:41 am UTC

I, meanwhile, have sent naked/topless pictures of myself to men on the internet. I have drunk some alcohol at some parties even though I am underage. I have walked through the streets alone at night, because I like doing that. I wear low-cut tops. I engage in mildly "dangerous" behavior rather often. None of these things has resulted in rape or sexual assault of any kind.

The difference between my actions and the actions of these boys was the rapist. That was it. It wasn't the sending of pictures. It was the act of the rapist.
Raise up the torch and light the way.

User avatar
BlackSails
Posts: 5315
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:48 am UTC

Re: High School Students Blackmailed into Gay Sex

Postby BlackSails » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:43 am UTC

There is a difference between doing something stupid which increases your risk of being raped, and being at fault for being raped.

If I choose to run around harlem in full klansmen regalia, is it my fault when I get beaten with a baseball bat? No, it is not. Am I a damn fool for doing so? Absolutely.

Walking around alone in a dark neigborhood at night is not asking to be raped. But if my daughter were to do that, Id have a fit.

Someone enganged in high risk behavior shares some of the blame for what happens. People who run unpatched windows without anti-virus programs share some of the blame for getting infected. People who use IV drugs share blame for getting HIV. People who drive without seatbelts share blame for being hurled through the winshield. People who dont read the instruction manual share blame for cutting off their hands. And people who stumble around bad areas alone and drunk do share some blame for being raped. Is it their fault? Certainly not, they did not choose to get raped. But they do share blame for it.

User avatar
Quixotess
No. Cookies.
Posts: 3243
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 7:26 am UTC
Contact:

Re: High School Students Blackmailed into Gay Sex

Postby Quixotess » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:48 am UTC

Actually, BlackSails, the majority of rapes take place in the victim's own home. Most victims are raped by someone they know. (Making this case unusual in two ways.) So that is the behavior which would seem to most increase your chance of being raped.
Raise up the torch and light the way.

User avatar
Belial
A terrible sound heard from a distance
Posts: 30450
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:04 am UTC
Contact:

Re: High School Students Blackmailed into Gay Sex

Postby Belial » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:48 am UTC

Blacksails, there's a difference between nearly all of those examples and the point you're trying to prove.

In nearly every example, someone does something stupid to themselves.

In the klansman and rape scenarios, however, the actions of another party are required. Running through harlem in full klansman regalia would be perfectly safe (albeit in extremely poor taste) if no one chose to commit assault. Walking alone at night scantily dressed while drunk (or sending naked pictures of yourself to some guy on the internet) would be perfectly safe if someone did not choose to RAPE YOU.

The blame for the situation rests entirely on the person who creates the situation. Batterers and Rapists are the reason those situations are dangerous. They are also the people committing the crimes. They are the problem. They are the full extent of the problem. Full stop.
addams wrote:A drunk neighbor is better than a sober Belial.


They/them

User avatar
Rinsaikeru
Pawn, soon to be a Queen
Posts: 2166
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:26 am UTC
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Re: High School Students Blackmailed and Raped

Postby Rinsaikeru » Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:02 am UTC

To return the the dark alley scenario--what exactly is dangerous about a dark alley without a mugger in it? It's probably more difficult to see, it might smell bad, there might be a raccoon--it is not in and of itself dangerous. The aspect of the equation that makes it a 'bad idea' has nothing to do with walking down a dark alley or wearing a short skirt or sending naked photos of yourself over the internet--it becomes a bad idea when a predator makes use of the situation.
Rice Puddin.

User avatar
Telchar
That's Admiral 'The Hulk' Ackbar, to you sir
Posts: 1937
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:06 pm UTC
Location: Cynicistia

Re: High School Students Blackmailed into Gay Sex

Postby Telchar » Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:30 am UTC

Amnesiasoft wrote:Don't you see, this is the perfect opportunity to say homosexuality causes pedophilia! Or something...

...well, it doesn't have to make sense.


They might link it to child abuse, but pedophilia=/=child abuse or child molestation.
Zamfir wrote:Yeah, that's a good point. Everyone is all about presumption of innocence in rape threads. But when Mexican drug lords build APCs to carry their henchmen around, we immediately jump to criminal conclusions without hard evidence.

T-Form
Posts: 240
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:16 pm UTC

Re: High School Students Blackmailed into Gay Sex

Postby T-Form » Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:31 am UTC

Quixotess wrote:Actually, BlackSails, the majority of rapes take place in the victim's own home. Most victims are raped by someone they know. (Making this case unusual in two ways.) So that is the behavior which would seem to most increase your chance of being raped.

Actually, the article mentions that some of the rapes did occur at the victims' homes, and presumably that's also where they were when they were tricked into sending the original pictures used for blackmail.

User avatar
Pez Dispens3r
is not a stick figure.
Posts: 2079
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:08 am UTC
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: High School Students Blackmailed into Gay Sex

Postby Pez Dispens3r » Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:24 am UTC

PhatPhungus wrote:and it's definitely more of a fault to trick someone into sending naked pictures of themselves to you.


The bit he did that was really bad was blackmailed people into sexual acts. Tricking someone into sending you nudes rates at about 2/10 on the naughty scale in comparison. You should be thanking people that send you nudes, not exploiting them.
Mighty Jalapeno wrote:I feel like you're probably an ocelot, and I feel like I want to eat you. Feeling is fun!
this isn't my cow

User avatar
eternal luna
Posts: 1484
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:54 am UTC
Location: Сидней

Re: High School Students Blackmailed and Raped

Postby eternal luna » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:15 am UTC

Black.Sails- "Being drunk, or wearing sexy clothes, or enjoying sex does not "make you vulnerable to rape". Being near a rapist makes you vulnerable to rape." - From somewhere on Shakesville.

I realise that this has already been said by Quix, Belial, and Rin, but I've found this to be a concise explanation.
Alexius:-Охуели? Нахуя дохуя хуйний нахуярили? Расхуяривай нахуй!
-Хули? Нихуя! Нехуй расхуяривать! Нахуячено нехуёво! Похуярили!
Gojoe: We are all inferior to you luna.

EstLladon
Beat you to the park. From RUSSIA.
Posts: 483
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:23 am UTC

Re: High School Students Blackmailed and Raped

Postby EstLladon » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:25 am UTC

I do not understand.
If he just raped them, naked photos they sent to him are of little relevance to the whole deal.

If they were blackmailed it means that it was something like this (greatly oversimplified):
The rapist: The naked photos you've sent will be released to public if you woun't let me fuck you while taking pictures of it.
The victim: Okay. (bends over)

Why the reply wasn't
The victim: I have naked photos of me that can be released to public. How having pictures of me being fucked by some guy that can be released to public are better? By the way you are sick fuck.
?

I just do not get it.
From Russia with math.

User avatar
Iori_Yagami
Posts: 606
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:37 pm UTC

Re: High School Students Blackmailed and Raped

Postby Iori_Yagami » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:45 am UTC

Another 'internet is eeeeevil and full of maniacs!' token into the bag! :twisted:
Besides, I think this is a grey case where you just have to know the actual active law to solve it correctly. What if someone tricks you into signing your new testament? What if they threaten you? What if they ask very, very hard? Whose guilt is it? Was there consent or wasn't? :?
They cannot defend themselves; they cannot run away. INSANITY is their only way of escape.

User avatar
Hawknc
Oompa Loompa of SCIENCE!
Posts: 6986
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:14 am UTC
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: High School Students Blackmailed and Raped

Postby Hawknc » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:52 am UTC

Consent by coercion is not consent. How is that a difficult concept?

User avatar
Pez Dispens3r
is not a stick figure.
Posts: 2079
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:08 am UTC
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: High School Students Blackmailed and Raped

Postby Pez Dispens3r » Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:06 pm UTC

EstLladon wrote:I do not understand.
If he just raped them, naked photos they sent to him are of little relevance to the whole deal.

If they were blackmailed it means that it was something like this (greatly oversimplified):
The rapist: The naked photos you've sent will be released to public if you woun't let me fuck you while taking pictures of it.
The victim: Okay. (bends over)

Why the reply wasn't
The victim: I have naked photos of me that can be released to public. How having pictures of me being fucked by some guy that can be released to public are better? By the way you are sick fuck.
?

I just do not get it.


I don't think all, or much of it was sex, but 'sex acts.' And the kid who copped most of it was 15... maybe he was just more freaked out by the possibility of his nudes getting out than anyone else.
Mighty Jalapeno wrote:I feel like you're probably an ocelot, and I feel like I want to eat you. Feeling is fun!
this isn't my cow

EstLladon
Beat you to the park. From RUSSIA.
Posts: 483
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:23 am UTC

Re: High School Students Blackmailed and Raped

Postby EstLladon » Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:19 pm UTC

What kinds of sex acts? My point is that picture of "sex act" of any kind is definitely worse then just naked pic.
From Russia with math.

Princess Marzipan
Posts: 7717
Joined: Sun May 27, 2007 5:28 am UTC
Location: neither a road, nor an island

Re: High School Students Blackmailed into Gay Sex

Postby Princess Marzipan » Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:48 pm UTC

Lucrece wrote:"Gay Sex" frustrates the shit out of me.

It frustrates me, too. There isn't a vagina; how does it even work!?

Amnesiasoft wrote:I give it a week until someone charges the victims with some form of child porn charges.

Yeah, honestly, what these boys (well, y'know, BEFORE the rape) did is no different than what that girl did some time back. Except...no, she actually knew specifically who she was sending the photos to. And that was still illegal.

So the law really should be going after these boys and pressing child porn charges.

EstLladon wrote:What kinds of sex acts? My point is that picture of "sex act" of any kind is definitely worse then just naked pic.

Yeah, but the guy I guess wasn't going to release pictures of sex acts, just view them later. You have the advantage of not being an idiotic teenager in an American high school. SHIT MAKES YOU CRAZY.
"It's Saturday night. I've got no date, a two-liter of Shasta, and my all-Rush mixtape. Let's rock!"
"I am just about to be brilliant!"
General_Norris, on feminism, wrote:If you lose your six Pokémon, you lost.

User avatar
TheSkyMovesSideways
Posts: 589
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:36 am UTC
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: High School Students Blackmailed into Gay Sex

Postby TheSkyMovesSideways » Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:05 pm UTC

Belial wrote:Walking alone at night scantily dressed while drunk (or sending naked pictures of yourself to some guy on the internet) would be perfectly safe if someone did not choose to RAPE YOU.

The blame for the situation rests entirely on the person who creates the situation. Batterers and Rapists are the reason those situations are dangerous. They are also the people committing the crimes. They are the problem. They are the full extent of the problem. Full stop.

I'd like some clarification on this, if you'll indulge me. :)

Are you saying that people shouldn't take steps to avoid being a victim (whether of rape, assault, robbery, or any other crime)? I'm well aware that you don't state this in your post, but the whole thing seems to be a hostile response to suggestions that taking steps to avoid being made a victim is a good idea.

If so, would you consider the following examples of advice to be bad?

- You shouldn't open email attachments from unknown senders, respond to emails from Nigerian princesses offering you money, or send your internet banking details to a person emailing you, claiming to be from your bank.
- It's generally not a good idea to wander alone through areas with a high incidence of violent robbery while carrying large amounts of money visibly tucked into your pockets.
- If you're going to leave your drink unattended in a bar while you go dance, I wouldn't recommend finishing consuming it when you return, as it may have been spiked.


Of course, if you're merely trying to say (albeit in a roundabout way) that no one deserves to be raped, then we can agree on that.
I had all kinds of plans in case of a zombie attack.
I just figured I'd be on the other side.
~ASW

User avatar
Belial
A terrible sound heard from a distance
Posts: 30450
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:04 am UTC
Contact:

Re: High School Students Blackmailed into Gay Sex

Postby Belial » Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:08 pm UTC

TheSkyMovesSideways wrote:I'd like some clarification on this, if you'll indulge me. :)

Are you saying that people shouldn't take steps to avoid being a victim (whether of rape, assault, robbery, or any other crime)?


No, I'm saying that, after the fact, it is no one's fault but the perpetrator's that a crime occurred.
addams wrote:A drunk neighbor is better than a sober Belial.


They/them

User avatar
TheSkyMovesSideways
Posts: 589
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:36 am UTC
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: High School Students Blackmailed into Gay Sex

Postby TheSkyMovesSideways » Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:17 pm UTC

Thanks Belial, then we can agree on that. :)

But I do think you were a bit quick to assume the worst with Solt's post.
I had all kinds of plans in case of a zombie attack.
I just figured I'd be on the other side.
~ASW

User avatar
22/7
I'm pretty sure I have "The Slavery In My Asshole" on DVD.
Posts: 6475
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:30 pm UTC
Location: 127.0.0.1

Re: High School Students Blackmailed into Gay Sex

Postby 22/7 » Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:08 pm UTC

TheSkyMovesSideways wrote:Thanks Belial, then we can agree on that. :)

But I do think you were a bit quick to assume the worst with Solt's post.
I don't. You can certainly say that these kids acted irresponsibly, but it's completely irrelevant to anything other than "when it's your friend/child/whatever thinking about putting something on the internet that could be used to embarrass them later, encourage them not to". This, however, is a good rule of thumb for life in general and isn't particularly related to "keeping yourself from being a victim". When we're talking about whose fault it is, saying that it's anyone's but the person who committed the act is dishonest and dangerous.
Totally not a hypothetical...

Steroid wrote:
bigglesworth wrote:If your economic reality is a choice, then why are you not as rich as Bill Gates?
Don't want to be.
I want to be!

User avatar
segmentation fault
Posts: 1770
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:10 pm UTC
Location: Nu Jersey
Contact:

Re: High School Students Blackmailed into Gay Sex

Postby segmentation fault » Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:30 pm UTC

Pa-Patch wrote:It is a dick move, but if you don't want nude pictures of yourself on the internet, don't take nude pictures of yourself and send them to people. This is their own damn fault.


yeah, but blackmail is still illegal. and so is rape.
people are like LDL cholesterol for the internet

User avatar
Gunfingers
Posts: 2401
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 7:15 pm UTC

Re: High School Students Blackmailed and Raped

Postby Gunfingers » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:34 pm UTC

A lot of people seem to have a hard time making the logical disconnect between "What happened to you wouldn't have happened if you'd been smart" and "Because you could have done something to avoid this the whole thing is your fault and no one deserves blame but you." I guess both could be called "Blaming the victim", but i'm pretty sure they're logically distinct.

User avatar
yohanleafheart
Posts: 349
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:37 pm UTC
Location: São Paulo, Brazil
Contact:

Re: High School Students Blackmailed and Raped

Postby yohanleafheart » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:41 pm UTC

McCaber wrote:Source

He deserves every one of them.


Look, I don't know about the US, but here in Brazil at least, most of the inmates would try to know how many times he raped each boy, to suffer that every week until release.

No, I'm not justifying this. No, I don't think it is exactly right. Just point how he will probably be punished beyond and above the law.

Personally, i hope he rots in solitary confinement for that and have his balls cut off and feed to him.

Yes, the boys were a bit stupid on sending naked pictures to someone over the net. NO, ABSOLUTELY NO, that does not justify and even minimize blackmail and rape.

Stupidity is not justification for moral higher ground.

Repeat after me, blackmail and rape are not cool.

/me goes to a walk to cool his head.
"When you gotta do something wrong, you gotta do it right." - Fighter - 8-bit Theatre
"Life is a bitch. But it is my bitch." - Slick - Sinfest
Avatars courtesy of Sinfest

User avatar
22/7
I'm pretty sure I have "The Slavery In My Asshole" on DVD.
Posts: 6475
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:30 pm UTC
Location: 127.0.0.1

Re: High School Students Blackmailed and Raped

Postby 22/7 » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:45 pm UTC

Gunfingers wrote:A lot of people seem to have a hard time making the logical disconnect between "What happened to you wouldn't have happened to you if you'd been smart and someone else hadn't broken the law" and "Because you could have done something to avoid this assuming that someone is going to break the law regardless the whole thing partly, this is your fault [s]and no one deserves blame but you[s]." I guess both could be called "Blaming the victim", but i'm pretty sure they're logically distinct.
Last edited by 22/7 on Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:47 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
Totally not a hypothetical...

Steroid wrote:
bigglesworth wrote:If your economic reality is a choice, then why are you not as rich as Bill Gates?
Don't want to be.
I want to be!

User avatar
d33p
Happy Fun Ball
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:06 am UTC
Location: La Maison de la Liberté

Re: High School Students Blackmailed and Raped

Postby d33p » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:47 pm UTC

In order for there to be blame or fault assigned, someone must do wrong.
It is not wrong to be foolish, or make poor judgement calls in good faith. There is no blame or fault on the part of the victims here, though they were unwise. My heart goes out to them for the betrayal and humiliation forced upon them by the bastard choosing to take malicious advantage of naivety.
Parka wrote:I assume this is yours. I don't know anyone else who would put "kill a bear" on a list.

User avatar
yohanleafheart
Posts: 349
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:37 pm UTC
Location: São Paulo, Brazil
Contact:

Re: High School Students Blackmailed and Raped

Postby yohanleafheart » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:50 pm UTC

d33p wrote: My heart goes out to them for the betrayal and humiliation forced upon them by the bastard choosing to take malicious advantage of naivety.


Mine too. As goes to the victims, if some stupid DA decided to pressure charges on them for "possession and dissemination of child porn" just to "teach everyone a lesson".

My sympathy to the families that will have to endure it, knowing full well that the victims names will probably be released at a given point, bringing hell to the families :(
"When you gotta do something wrong, you gotta do it right." - Fighter - 8-bit Theatre
"Life is a bitch. But it is my bitch." - Slick - Sinfest
Avatars courtesy of Sinfest

User avatar
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
As the Arbiter of Everything, Everything Sucks
Posts: 8314
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:17 pm UTC
Location: I FUCKING MOVED TO THE WOODS

Re: High School Students Blackmailed and Raped

Postby (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:55 pm UTC

TheSkyMovesSideways wrote:Are you saying that people shouldn't take steps to avoid being a victim (whether of rape, assault, robbery, or any other crime)? I'm well aware that you don't state this in your post, but the whole thing seems to be a hostile response to suggestions that taking steps to avoid being made a victim is a good idea.


Gunfingers wrote:A lot of people seem to have a hard time making the logical disconnect between "What happened to you wouldn't have happened if you'd been smart" and "Because you could have done something to avoid this the whole thing is your fault and no one deserves blame but you." I guess both could be called "Blaming the victim", but i'm pretty sure they're logically distinct.


I would love to know what exactly I should do to make sure I never get raped again. So, never let anyone blackmail me, that's good. Never send pictures of myself naked to anyone. Never get in someone's car unless I know them. Only, I was raped in a car by someone I know, so clearly getting in any car is out. So, I can't get in a car with someone so I have to walk, except I know I can't walk certain places because there are scary people who may want to rape me. SO I can take public transportation, but only not during times late at night, because people I know have been assaulted then. And I can't take cabs alone, because there've been incidents where girls have been taken out to remote locations and raped by the driver. So I guess I just stay home. Good thing I don't live in my mom's house anymore though, because that's also a place I was raped, so I guess I shouldn't go there. So I will stay at home, in my house. I can't go to work because my office has been held up at gunpoint before, and I'm surrounded by jewelry when I go to work so it's not safe.
So tell me, oh great ones, what do I do, now that I'm perfectly safe?

I reject these ideas and react with hostility because there's no way to look at someone and know, "this person is going to hurt me, now" until they are actually hurting you.
It's really easy to tell someone not to put oneself in a situation like that, but generally one doesn't expect situations like that to happen. Especially with someone who you have developed some kind of a relationship- even a fake, internet relationship with a 'girl' who isn't actually a girl. I can't even *imagine* the confusion that happened to those guys.
I imagine it took them a day to parse it at all, I would have been in shock and ashamed and very scared. Not to mention put off of trusting anyone on the internet ever.
Heyyy baby wanna kill all humans?

User avatar
segmentation fault
Posts: 1770
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:10 pm UTC
Location: Nu Jersey
Contact:

Re: High School Students Blackmailed and Raped

Postby segmentation fault » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:04 pm UTC

if you leave your door open, its still illegal for someone to walk in and take your shit, regardless of the lack of safety measures. does it mean you put yourself into a pain in the ass situation, yeah. but punishment for the other party is still deserving.
people are like LDL cholesterol for the internet

User avatar
Bakemaster
pretty nice future dick
Posts: 8933
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:33 pm UTC
Location: One of those hot places

Re: High School Students Blackmailed into Gay Sex

Postby Bakemaster » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:07 pm UTC

Gunfingers wrote:A lot of people seem to have a hard time making the logical disconnect between "What happened to you wouldn't have happened if you'd been smart" and "Because you could have done something to avoid this the whole thing is your fault and no one deserves blame but you." I guess both could be called "Blaming the victim", but i'm pretty sure they're logically distinct.

Those are both abhorrent statements that fully qualify as "blaming the victim"; the only difference is that the second is hyperbolic and doesn't represent the position of anyone in this thread, to my knowledge.
BlackSails wrote:There is a difference between doing something stupid which increases your risk of being raped, and being at fault for being raped.

The above is correct. It's the following which is problematic:
BlackSails wrote:Someone enganged in high risk behavior shares some of the blame for what happens.

Every behavior—every single action, inaction, and choice—has an associated risk factor. There is absolutely nothing a person can do which is neutral or perfectly safe in this respect. However, there is no causal relationship on an individual level between behavior associated with a particular increased risk factor and the willful action of another human being to cause harm or commit a crime. In a general sociological context, when dealing with groups of people, you can start to identify causal relationships between trends in behavior and trends in crime, but individuals and particular events do not work that way. The point of which is that someone who engages in high risk behavior can be blamed only for increasing their statistical risk of X; they still can not in any way or to any degree be blamed for X in the event that it occurs. If that were true then someone who engages only in low risk behavior would still be party to blame for being raped—just only a little bit.

If you really want to reprimand the victim for something, there is a certain amount of legitimacy in stating that they are responsible for behaving in a way that increased their risk of becoming a victim. And everyone seems to agree that in general, it is a good idea to mitigate risk factors. But as Belial pointed out, it takes the conscious, willful action of another individual individual to commit a violent crime, and that is something that is the fault of nobody but the criminal. There's this disgusting myth that rapists are just ordinary dudes with a little less self-control than the average guy, who would never have hurt a fly—if she hadn't accepted that beer he gave her... if she hadn't been wearing that short skirt... if she hadn't been out alone at night... I understand that those of you who are trying to argue for giving the victim some responsibility probably don't like being associated with that shit, but you are perpetuating it. Maybe you feel like I'm wrongly accusing you of holding a horrible, indefensible position, and maybe that makes you feel attacked, makes you feel angry. Understand that the issue is that your arguments are enforcing and perpetuating these positions.

If you really feel the need to identify and emphasize the relationship between certain behaviors and increased risk factors, you should be directing your energies toward prevention and education, not toward victims of already-committed violent crimes. Otherwise you are making yourself part of the problem.
Last edited by Bakemaster on Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:12 pm UTC, edited 3 times in total.
Image
c0 = 2.13085531 × 1014 smoots per fortnight
"Apparently you can't summon an alternate timeline clone of your inner demon, guys! Remember that." —Noc

User avatar
Belial
A terrible sound heard from a distance
Posts: 30450
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:04 am UTC
Contact:

Re: High School Students Blackmailed and Raped

Postby Belial » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:11 pm UTC

We should start blaming people who get killed by drunk drivers.

After all, what were they doing driving on the roads after the bars opened? Idiots.
addams wrote:A drunk neighbor is better than a sober Belial.


They/them

User avatar
d33p
Happy Fun Ball
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:06 am UTC
Location: La Maison de la Liberté

Re: High School Students Blackmailed into Gay Sex

Postby d33p » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:17 pm UTC

Bakemaster wrote:Maybe you feel like I'm ... accusing you of holding a horrible, indefensible position
Well, it is indefensible, unless one honestly believes that the sheer fact of being accidentally born into a risk-laden world automatically constitutes accepting a measure of blame for every negative thing that happens to you. Which, rationally, is nonsense.
Parka wrote:I assume this is yours. I don't know anyone else who would put "kill a bear" on a list.

User avatar
Marbas
Posts: 1169
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:01 am UTC
Location: Down down down at the bottom of the sea
Contact:

Re: High School Students Blackmailed and Raped

Postby Marbas » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:49 pm UTC

Those are both abhorrent statements that fully qualify as "blaming the victim"; the only difference is that the second is hyperbolic and doesn't represent the position of anyone in this thread, to my knowledge.


Even if it's victim blaming, does it make the statement any less true? I am of course, talking about this singular isolated instance of crime. I am not talking about rape as a whole, or crime as a whole. If the kid had just let him release pictures he wouldn't have been in the situation in the first place. I don't see how that is on par with saying it's the kid's fault for being raped.

I keep seeing people trying to generalize this one instance to rape as a whole...and it honestly makes me very confused.
Last edited by Marbas on Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:08 pm UTC, edited 3 times in total.
Jahoclave wrote:Do you have any idea how much more fun the holocaust is with "Git er Done" as the catch phrase?


Return to “News & Articles”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests