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Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 5:23 am UTC
by EsotericWombat
I actually thought that that was what I'd quoted. I'll fix.

Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 5:27 am UTC
by Walter.Horvath
Hey, religious belief doesn't qualify you as an idiot, you might want to shut up nao.


Also, a vote for Palin is a vote for Elisabeth Hasselbeck.

Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 5:37 am UTC
by EsotericWombat
Backing a candidate for the highest office in the land solely for religious reasons absolutely does though.

As does adhering to a religion that flatly denies observable reality.

Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 5:40 am UTC
by The Great Hippo
EsotericWombat wrote:As does adhering to a religion that flatly denies observable reality.
Like Buddhism!

:D
:D
:D



(I think it's probably better to say: "People who make bad decisions based on their religion and then refuse to face up to the fact that those decisions were bad because they based them on their religion are morons.").

Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 5:40 am UTC
by Walter.Horvath
EsotericWombat wrote:Backing a candidate for the highest office in the land solely for religious reasons absolutely does though.

As does adhering to a religion that flatly denies observable reality.

1) Yeah
2) No

Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 5:57 am UTC
by EsotericWombat
Buddhism doesn't flatly deny observable reality. It just says that it's meaningless. Even so, I'll admit that I was maybe a bit overbroad.

But if you think that the Earth is six thousand years old, you're an idiot. Even if you have a whole stack of priests to back you up. Same deal if you say that global warming can't be true because God said he'd never flood the Earth again.

Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 5:58 am UTC
by BlackSails
In response to the topic:

Thank god. Maybe the rest of the republicans will take the hit, give the religious wing the boot and go back to being conservatives (you know, small government, stays out the bedroom, doesnt care what people do as long as it doesnt harm others?)

Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:03 am UTC
by The Great Hippo
EsotericWombat wrote:But if you think that the Earth is six thousand years old, you're an idiot. Even if you have a whole stack of priests to back you up. Same deal if you say that global warming can't be true because God said he'd never flood the Earth again.
What if, ever since you were born, everyone around you has told you that the world is six thousand years old and that those who say otherwise are either insane, part of a conspiracy, or subscribers to a ridiculous faith that they've been indoctrinated into since birth?

Something to remember here: The reason a lot of people believe in evolution is the same reason a lot of people believe in Creation: Because someone they respect told them to. Not because they've read the research; not because they've given it a good long hard thinking. Because either somebody in a priest frock with a Bible - or a lab-coat with a beaker - said "Hey, listen, this is how it is" and they took their word for it.

People who think the world is six thousand years old aren't necessarily idiots anymore than people who believe in evolution are necessarily intelligent.

Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:09 am UTC
by BlackSails
The Great Hippo wrote:
People who think the world is six thousand years old aren't necessarily idiots anymore than people who believe in evolution are necessarily intelligent.


Yes, but thinking the world is six thousand years old means you are either uneducated or unintelligent.

Either one is enough for me to want you to never hold an important political office.

Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:11 am UTC
by The Great Hippo
BlackSails wrote:Yes, but thinking the world is six thousand years old means you are either uneducated or unintelligent.
Fair. Or, at least, not educated in a rationalist/empirical school of thought. Which is a totally legitimate thing to be concerned about when picking your candidates.

Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:13 am UTC
by BlackSails
The Great Hippo wrote:
BlackSails wrote:Yes, but thinking the world is six thousand years old means you are either uneducated or unintelligent.
Fair. Or, at least, not educated in a rationalist/empirical school of thought. Which is a totally legitimate thing to be concerned about when picking your candidates.


To be honest, most senators presidents arent as educated as id like them to be. For instance, you should not be creating laws on stem cells when you cant even define what a stem cell is. Or making laws about sex education when you dont know that HIV isnt a bacteria. (Or that viruses are not bacteria)

But Palin was egregiously so. If McCain had nominated just about anyone else to be his VP, I would have voted for him.

Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:44 am UTC
by Walter.Horvath
EsotericWombat wrote:But if you think that the Earth is six thousand years old, you're an idiot. Even if you have a whole stack of priests to back you up. Same deal if you say that global warming can't be true because God said he'd never flood the Earth again.

You're the one idiot in the world that thinks that science only applies exclusively out of religion. IT DOESN'T.

Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:21 am UTC
by The Reaper
Walter.Horvath wrote:
EsotericWombat wrote:But if you think that the Earth is six thousand years old, you're an idiot. Even if you have a whole stack of priests to back you up. Same deal if you say that global warming can't be true because God said he'd never flood the Earth again.

You're the one idiot in the world that thinks that science only applies exclusively out of religion. IT DOESN'T.

I'm having problems figuring out what "science only applies exclusively out of religion" means.

Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:37 pm UTC
by Aikanaro
EsotericWombat wrote:Buddhism doesn't flatly deny observable reality. It just says that it's meaningless. Even so, I'll admit that I was maybe a bit overbroad.

But if you think that the Earth is six thousand years old, you're an idiot. Even if you have a whole stack of priests to back you up. Same deal if you say that global warming can't be true because God said he'd never flood the Earth again.

Buh...gah...wur...../brain reboots...
WHAT THE HELL??? Please tell me that's something you made up, and not an actual argument anyone used against global warming! O_o;;

(If they're that moronic, though, just say God said HE wouldn't flood the world, he never promised to protect us from our own douchefuckery. If WE flood it, it's our own damn problem. I'm curious what their response would be.)

Oh, but maybe we should get off religion and get back to the subject of the Anna Kournikova of politics....

Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:15 pm UTC
by The Great Hippo
The Reaper wrote:I'm having problems figuring out what "science only applies exclusively out of religion" means.
Man, I thought I was the only one.

Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:44 pm UTC
by fjafjan
I felt I should share this excellent quote from Sarah Palins spokesperson

"The world is literally her oyster"

Literally. I hope she does not eat us.

Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:22 pm UTC
by LuNatic
BlackSails wrote:
The Great Hippo wrote:
People who think the world is six thousand years old aren't necessarily idiots anymore than people who believe in evolution are necessarily intelligent.


Yes, but thinking the world is six thousand years old means you are either uneducated or unintelligent.

Either one is enough for me to want you to never hold an important political office.


And what about the ones who simply accept evolution because someone told them to? Are they any more qualified for office, just because you share their beliefs? Because I strongly doubt that many of your alternatives have done the research to check for themselves. Evolutionists or otherwise, they are just taking someone else's word for it...

Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:43 pm UTC
by The Great Hippo
LuNatic wrote:And what about the ones who simply accept evolution because someone told them to? Are they any more qualified for office, just because you share their beliefs? Because I strongly doubt that many of your alternatives have done the research to check for themselves. Evolutionists or otherwise, they are just taking someone else's word for it...
Right. The point (as has been explained by now) isn't "People who believe in evolution are qualified", but "People who believe in Young Earth Creationism are not qualified". It's perfectly feasible to believe in evolution and still be a shitty empiricist; it's not so possible to believe in Young Earth Creationism without, you know, being completely lacking any sort of empirical, rational education whatsoever.

And that's sort of a requirement I have for my leaders.

Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:55 pm UTC
by BlackSails
LuNatic wrote:And what about the ones who simply accept evolution because someone told them to? Are they any more qualified for office, just because you share their beliefs? Because I strongly doubt that many of your alternatives have done the research to check for themselves. Evolutionists or otherwise, they are just taking someone else's word for it...


People who believe in evolution just because people told them so are also idiots, but at least they are educated. That is better than uneducated and being happy with that.

Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:38 pm UTC
by Velict
frezik wrote:I make it a point to read Free Republic from time to time. That's quite enough to tell me that conservatives are backwards idiots without digg telling me so.


Judging the entire spectrum of conservative ideologies from Free Republic is like assuming that all liberals are as mindlessly partisan as Keith Olbermann, or even judging all liberals by the latest HuffingtonPost article. I recommend looking into The National Review or The Economist for decent news sources (the latter is less political, and essentially right-leaning libertarian in its bias).

Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 4:57 pm UTC
by EsotericWombat
The Reaper wrote:I'm having problems figuring out what "science only applies exclusively out of religion" means.


Me too. I'm not even sure if that sentence can mean anything.

Buh...gah...wur...../brain reboots...
WHAT THE HELL??? Please tell me that's something you made up, and not an actual argument anyone used against global warming! O_o;;


Well, so... I'm not entirely sure that that was what he was getting at, but a father in Seattle wanted to stop the school from showing Al Gore's An Inconvenient Truth under a clause in local school codes that "controversial issues" be given the "fair and balanced treatment." He said that it was heretical because he knew from the Bible that the world wasn't going to end that way. So it was either what I said, or that he instead expects the end of the world to follow the Revalations script to a T, or both. In any case, his argument gained at least some traction and a moratorium was imposed on the schools showing it.

Now, I'm not sure exactly that he was using the argument I cited, but I don't think it's possible that what he meant by what he said leaves him looking any better.

Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 7:04 pm UTC
by Aikanaro
.....Citation, please? I need to know who this guy is, so I can drop a heavy crate on him filled with the combined texts of all other major world religions....

Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 7:54 pm UTC
by The Reaper
Man, I came back hoping someone had explained that line, and it turns out others are confused too :(

The Economist isn't bad. :3

Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:09 am UTC
by Walter.Horvath
The Great Hippo wrote:
The Reaper wrote:I'm having problems figuring out what "science only applies exclusively out of religion" means.
Man, I thought I was the only one.

Science and religion aren't two separate, exclusive entities. It's not like believing in anything means that yo completely disregard any science, and you'd be an idiot to think that.

Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:00 am UTC
by Freakish
Walter.Horvath wrote:
The Great Hippo wrote:
The Reaper wrote:I'm having problems figuring out what "science only applies exclusively out of religion" means.
Man, I thought I was the only one.

Science and religion aren't two separate, exclusive entities. It's not like believing in anything means that yo completely disregard any science, and you'd be an idiot to think that.


Lucky no one has said that they think that.

Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:34 am UTC
by EsotericWombat
@Walter.Hovath: You're right. They are. The observable Universe is the province of Science. Religion gets everything else. And while Science can't tell you if there's such a thing as a soul, religion can't tell you how old the Earth is. And if you think that it can, GTFO of my representative democracy.

In other words, what you just said has absolutely no fucking bearing on what I said.

Anyway, to try to drag this back on-topic (apologies for my part in dragging it further off), insiders are actually suggesting that Palin is considering withdrawingfrom politics altogether. The murmurings regarding a federal indictment for embezzlement are hitting a crescendo, and it all surrounds the 13 million dollar sports complex that she got built in Wasilla. It should be noted that the million plus in legal fees regarding the utter shadiness of the product have completely bankrupted the town. I could go on and on about how this person who's advocating gov't restraint got a 13 million dollar project funded in a town that couldn't afford the legal fees that amounted to a tenth of that, but I'd be beating a dead moose.

Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 4:52 am UTC
by Lumpy
Let me just paste from this "everything wrong with Sarah Palin" catalog of all the news articles I made back when I was feeling into it during the '08 election, updated to cover the

Misusage of executive privilege, e-mail controveries:

Spoiler:
http://www.ktuu.com/global/story.asp?s=8802680&ClientType=Printable
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31727233/ns/politics/

Like George Bush and Barack Obama, Governor Palin claims executive privilege on e-mails when it comes to public records requests. However, in this case it is known that subject lines refer to Andrew Halcro, the Independent in the 2006 gubernatorial election that received 10% of the votes, and Dan Fagan, a radio talk show host critical of Palin's policies. Since executive privilege is for executive officials being able to speak freely without worrying about how they look in the papers, then if these e-mails are political in nature, Palin had violated ethics law by using government e-mail systems to evade the stricter electoral laws when it comes to freedom of information in these matters.

You probably remember someone getting into her e-mail account and spewing the e-mails all over 4chan, but because the hacker himself didn't look at them, and a Palin loyalist changed the password on the account before the e-mails could spread, not many of them came to light, and Palin continued to charge as high as $15 million for access to just one.


Wasilla activities:

Spoiler:
http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,1837918,00.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26504638/ [missing, but you can still see the title at least]
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/21/ ... ape.exams/

Sarah Palin fired a police commissioner on political grounds for opposing a concealed gun law the NRA supported. She threatened to fire a librarian for refusing to give "full support" to the mayor after she was asked how the governor would go about banning books voters didn't like from Wasilla.

She charged sexual assault victims for their own rape kits used to provide evidence for the court, then engaged in a back-and-forth trying to pin it on the chief of police fired in Troopergate.

Sarah Palin told a lie not even 650 words into her first campaign speech as the Republican vice presidential nominee. Although she said that she had fought against the $223 million "bridge to nowhere" project she derided as pork barreling, while running for the office of governor she took a "build-the-bridge" position and said that the term "bridge to nowhere" was insulting. During the time Palin held the office of mayor in the town of Wasilla with an estimated 9,000 residents, she secured $26.9 million in earmarks.


On even knowing about leading the Alaska National Guard:

Spoiler:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYYiw_y2qDI
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/10/u ... -000-.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/08/ ... 1854.shtml
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... party.html
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politic ... h_pal.html

On September 1, John McCain spokesman Tucker Bounds claimed that Sarah Palin possessed more "military command experience" than Barack Obama and Joe Biden combined, due to the Alaskan National Guard. A quick check with the Cornell University Law School's copy of the United States Code shows that the biggest role the state governor performs in relation to these claims is assigning troops and units to the federal National Guard, which then may call on them in times of war or national emergency.

Tucker Bounds repeatedly claimed, despite anchor Campbell Brown's attempts to have him regain his sanity, that the Alaskan National Guard was under state control with regards to war in Iraq and thus had the necessary experience to even be commander-in-chief. The adjutant general of the Alaskan National Guard, Craig Campbell, agrees that although the state has control over the Alaskan National Guard during emergencies and national disasters, it plays no role in national defense activities.

In an interview last month, Palin stated, "I've been so focused on state government, I haven't really focused much on the war in Iraq." Meanwhile, Republicans have no problem contending that 20 months in the state executive branch is equivalent to 37 years in the Senate between Obama and Biden, including those that ran for president on Senate experience.


Also, she attends church that believes in witchcraft, whose minister ran a Kenyan believed to be a witch out of town:

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfa ... oblem.html

Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:10 am UTC
by Walter.Horvath
EsotericWombat wrote:stuff

If you have some personal beef with religion to go with your lack of intelligence, then that's none of my problem. Either way, shut up and start discussing things pertinent to the thread.

Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:00 am UTC
by The Reaper
Walter.Horvath wrote:
EsotericWombat wrote:stuff

If you have some personal beef with religion to go with your lack of intelligence, then that's none of my problem. Either way, shut up and start discussing things pertinent to the thread.
Whispering sweet nothings about how you perceive someone else will get you nowhere. AKA, namecalling doesn't make discussion.

Also, alaska has magical money storage. I think (g)Nome is in league with Leprechauns.

Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:49 pm UTC
by Indon
Walter.Horvath wrote:Science and religion aren't two separate, exclusive entities. It's not like believing in anything means that yo completely disregard any science, and you'd be an idiot to think that.


No, science and religion are not exclusive.

But some religious beliefs are exclusive with some scientific knowledge.

And some of that scientific knowledge is really freaking obvious.

So if someone happens to follow a religious belief that is exclusive with obvious scientific knowledge, that reflects poorly upon their ability to perceive and understand reality accurately, on a fundamental level.

The ability to perceive and understand reality happens to be a fundamental aspect of the very large cluster of skills we term "intelligence".

Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:52 pm UTC
by Lycur
Walter.Horvath wrote:
EsotericWombat wrote:stuff

If you have some personal beef with religion to go with your lack of intelligence, then that's none of my problem. Either way, shut up and start discussing things pertinent to the thread.


This is some truly stunning hypocrisy. Award winning really.

Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:58 pm UTC
by (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
ENOUGH OF THIS PARTICULAR BULLSHIT OK GUYS? EsotericWombat already tried to bring things back on topic. There's no particular need to continue attacking each other and shit.

Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 4:02 pm UTC
by Aikanaro
SO.....does anyone know what she plans on doing after resigning, at least in the interim? Modeling for calendars for republicans, mayhaps? Falling off the face of the earth in the hopes of dodging scandals and prosecution?

Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:10 pm UTC
by (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
She's going to become a lobbyist for the oil industry.
Or at least that's one of the most evil things I can imagine her deciding to do.

Well, it's a long list of evil really.

Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:09 pm UTC
by Velict
She could possibly get her own TV show on Fox, Mke Huckabee-style. If she stays somewhat active in politics, I actually wouldn't be surprised to see this.

Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:32 pm UTC
by EsotericWombat
Or she could go to jail! Maybe Superjail!

If she's smart, she'll keep her head down for a few months; do like Mitt Romney is doing now, perhaps to a greater extent. If she's not in jail or done with politics forever, I wouldn't be surprised if she wound up polluting cable news for ten minutes at a time until she makes a decision about 2012. And she might be playing this "I'm sick of the same old politics" card as a means of fomenting a "draft Sarah" campaign leading up to the primary.

Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:37 pm UTC
by Mighty Jalapeno
I still say she'll get a job as a professional Tina Fey impersonator. Do mall openings, write awful movies, that sort of thing.

Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:52 pm UTC
by Jahoclave
Velict wrote:She could possibly get her own TV show on Fox, Mke Huckabee-style. If she stays somewhat active in politics, I actually wouldn't be surprised to see this.

And Fox would jump all the fuck over this. Good looking woman conservative show anchor. It's like their fucking wet dream. Put her right there between Hannity and O'Reilly, and give her a writing staff so she doesn't seem like an incoherent dumbass. They've probably had a hardon ever since she made the announcement.

Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:08 pm UTC
by Darkscull
Aikanaro wrote:Falling off the face of the earth in the hopes of dodging scandals and prosecution?


*insert joke about Palin actually thinking the world is flat*

Someone had to.

Re: Sarah Palin Resigns.

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:26 am UTC
by Princess Marzipan
Velict wrote:as mindlessly partisan as Keith Olbermann

Erm.

Partisan? Yes, slightly. Mindlessly? Not even close. Olbermann's had issues with Obama for a while, and isn't shy about sharing them publicly.

Perhaps you're fixated on the fact that he attacks Republicans pretty often? Because Republicans are doing A LOT of stupid bullshit right now, and it needs to be called out. Democrats are really not impressing me what with their complete inability to do what people voted them into office for even when there isn't any real opposition. But Republicans are just leaps and bounds worse with what they want to shape this country into. They basically run on a platform of outmoded "morals" and bigotry these days. And given all their sex scandals, they're pretty much the party of Do What I Say Not As I Do and I Made This Choice And It Was Wrong So I'm Making It The Other Way For You. There's nothing partisan about saying "I vote for ANYTHING BUT THAT BULLSHIT," or about publicizing and reporting on said bullshit.