Massachusetts AG sues Feds over DOMA

Seen something interesting in the news or on the intertubes? Discuss it here.

Moderators: Zamfir, Hawknc, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
sophyturtle
I'll go put my shirt back on for this kind of shock. No I won't. I'll get my purse.
Posts: 3474
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:19 pm UTC
Location: it's turtles all the way down, even in the suburbs
Contact:

Massachusetts AG sues Feds over DOMA

Postby sophyturtle » Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:27 pm UTC

We have it here and here.
Martha Coakley is once again making me proud to be from Massachusetts.
I want to get to a place where I am neither conforming nor rebelling but simply being.

Chen
Posts: 5576
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:53 pm UTC
Location: Montreal

Re: Massachusetts AG sues Feds over DOMA

Postby Chen » Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:52 pm UTC

How do you repeal a federal law, but have it only affect one state? Am I missing some subtlety in US law that allows this?

User avatar
sophyturtle
I'll go put my shirt back on for this kind of shock. No I won't. I'll get my purse.
Posts: 3474
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:19 pm UTC
Location: it's turtles all the way down, even in the suburbs
Contact:

Re: Massachusetts AG sues Feds over DOMA

Postby sophyturtle » Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:17 pm UTC

My understanding is that it would repeal it for all the states, fully allowing gay marriage to have full weight in the states smart logical liberal enough to have equal marriage rights. Including giving married couple in these states the full federal benefits of marriage.
/my understanding of law
I want to get to a place where I am neither conforming nor rebelling but simply being.

User avatar
netcrusher88
Posts: 2166
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:35 pm UTC
Location: Seattle

Re: Massachusetts AG sues Feds over DOMA

Postby netcrusher88 » Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:18 pm UTC

Chen wrote:How do you repeal a federal law, but have it only affect one state? Am I missing some subtlety in US law that allows this?

I think care2 is wrong. If a portion of a federal law is struck down, that portion is struck down. MA is one of the states it would affect, along with the other states progressive enough to allow gay marriage.

Ninja'd by sophyturtle.
Sexothermic
I have only ever made one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it. -Voltaire
They said we would never have a black president until Swine Flu. -Gears

Heisenberg
Posts: 3789
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 8:48 pm UTC
Location: Uncertain

Re: Massachusetts AG sues Feds over DOMA

Postby Heisenberg » Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:45 pm UTC

sophyturtle wrote:states smart & logical liberal enough to have equal marriage rights

Iowa made this one pretty clear.

User avatar
Belial
A terrible sound heard from a distance
Posts: 30450
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:04 am UTC
Contact:

Re: Massachusetts AG sues Feds over DOMA

Postby Belial » Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:50 pm UTC

"progressive enough" basically had it covered.
addams wrote:A drunk neighbor is better than a sober Belial.


They/them

User avatar
Lucrece
Posts: 3558
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:01 am UTC

Re: Massachusetts AG sues Feds over DOMA

Postby Lucrece » Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:12 pm UTC

I dislike the states' right connotation in this case. Solidifying such precedent would only threaten the Olson-Boies case, which seeks to make this about a fundamental right to marry across all the states.
Belial wrote:That's charming, Nancy, but all I hear when you talk is a bunch of yippy dog sounds.

Lycur
Posts: 470
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:06 pm UTC
Location: Nutopia

Re: Massachusetts AG sues Feds over DOMA

Postby Lycur » Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:16 pm UTC

Lucrece wrote:I dislike the states' right connotation in this case. Solidifying such precedent would only threaten the Olson-Boies case, which seeks to make this about a fundamental right to marry across all the states.


Not really. The validity of one argument doesn't imply anything (either logically or legally) about the validity of the other.

User avatar
Lucrece
Posts: 3558
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:01 am UTC

Re: Massachusetts AG sues Feds over DOMA

Postby Lucrece » Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:22 pm UTC

Lycur wrote:
Lucrece wrote:I dislike the states' right connotation in this case. Solidifying such precedent would only threaten the Olson-Boies case, which seeks to make this about a fundamental right to marry across all the states.


Not really. The validity of one argument doesn't imply anything (either logically or legally) about the validity of the other.



With a court that has most likely 4 votes against marriage, and one's a total swing vote, established precedent affirming the issue as a states' rights doesn't give much comfort. It makes it easier for a court to point at such recent precedent and say it won't get involved.
Belial wrote:That's charming, Nancy, but all I hear when you talk is a bunch of yippy dog sounds.

Sharlos
Posts: 720
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 9:26 am UTC
Location: Straya

Re: Massachusetts AG sues Feds over DOMA

Postby Sharlos » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:05 pm UTC

Yeah, but if DOMA is repealed, can't you go get married in a state that does allow gay marrige and then all states are required to recognise it even if they have outlawed it in their own state?

User avatar
Belial
A terrible sound heard from a distance
Posts: 30450
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:04 am UTC
Contact:

Re: Massachusetts AG sues Feds over DOMA

Postby Belial » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:16 pm UTC

Yes, that would be part of the point. Right now, gay marriage isn't gay marriage, because you don't get rights like the ability to still be married if you go for a fucking vacation, or the rights regarding immigration. This is dumb.
addams wrote:A drunk neighbor is better than a sober Belial.


They/them

User avatar
Lucrece
Posts: 3558
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:01 am UTC

Re: Massachusetts AG sues Feds over DOMA

Postby Lucrece » Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:36 am UTC

Sharlos wrote:Yeah, but if DOMA is repealed, can't you go get married in a state that does allow gay marrige and then all states are required to recognise it even if they have outlawed it in their own state?



No, repeal of DOMA won't do this.

Other states can still refuse to recognize gay marriages from other states, by arguing in court that the Full Faith and Credit Clause does not compel other states to recognize gay marriage.
Belial wrote:That's charming, Nancy, but all I hear when you talk is a bunch of yippy dog sounds.

User avatar
Belial
A terrible sound heard from a distance
Posts: 30450
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:04 am UTC
Contact:

Re: Massachusetts AG sues Feds over DOMA

Postby Belial » Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:11 am UTC

Really? Bugger.
addams wrote:A drunk neighbor is better than a sober Belial.


They/them

Sharlos
Posts: 720
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 9:26 am UTC
Location: Straya

Re: Massachusetts AG sues Feds over DOMA

Postby Sharlos » Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:52 am UTC

Seems that way, and they could argue that there is already precedent because they don't recognise incestual marriges either.

User avatar
BlackSails
Posts: 5315
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:48 am UTC

Re: Massachusetts AG sues Feds over DOMA

Postby BlackSails » Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:09 am UTC

Full faith and credit doesnt compel states to recognize things that are illegal in the state.

For instance, a NJ gun permit does not compel NY to allow you to carry a gun in NYC.

Sharlos
Posts: 720
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 9:26 am UTC
Location: Straya

Re: Massachusetts AG sues Feds over DOMA

Postby Sharlos » Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:32 am UTC

Even so, once DOMA is repealed, people will have the option of moving to somewhere else in the country and have a federally recognised marriage.

User avatar
Lucrece
Posts: 3558
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:01 am UTC

Re: Massachusetts AG sues Feds over DOMA

Postby Lucrece » Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:11 am UTC

Sharlos wrote:Even so, once DOMA is repealed, people will have the option of moving to somewhere else in the country and have a federally recognised marriage.


They will still be in a fucking carousel. It's like being incarcerated in a state. Wanna go for vacations? Make sure nothing happens; because should you have an accident or encounter a situation that requires official recognition of your familial relations (as in, the case where this couple got their kids taken away by Oklahoma since their adoption was not recognized there; they had to have the Oklahoma Supreme Court rule that their kids be returned to them), you're screwed.

I'd rather a case come and shatter this segregationist approach to recognition of gay relationships.
Belial wrote:That's charming, Nancy, but all I hear when you talk is a bunch of yippy dog sounds.

User avatar
Velict
Posts: 609
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:07 pm UTC
Location: Icecrown Citadel

Re: Massachusetts AG sues Feds over DOMA

Postby Velict » Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:23 am UTC

Sharlos wrote:Even so, once DOMA is repealed, people will have the option of moving to somewhere else in the country and have a federally recognised marriage.


So far as I understand this case, the Massachusetts AG wants to strike down the portion of the law that defines marriage - as recognized by the federal government - as between a man and a women. The case has nothing to do with forcing states to recognize gay marriages performed elsewhere.

Sourire
Posts: 334
Joined: Mon May 25, 2009 3:11 pm UTC

Re: Massachusetts AG sues Feds over DOMA

Postby Sourire » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:41 pm UTC

Just saying, quote from the first article linked...
The attorney general says in court papers that her action would not affect other states’ laws regarding marriage.

It seems to be about federal benefits to couples married within their own states.
Emi: Let the urge take you on a magic coaster ride of innuendo!

Kewangji: The universe is having an orgasm. Right now.


Return to “News & Articles”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 21 guests