Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

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Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby EMTP » Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:08 pm UTC

The campaign, which launched on Wednesday, urges Israelis to report the particulars of acquaintances living abroad so that these people, who are "in danger" of marrying non-Jews, can be persuaded to come to Israel.


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1112400.html

It features images of missing-person posters, with Jewish-sounding names written along the bottom. The message is that assimilated Jews are "lost" persons who must be brought home, to Israel.

Campaign organizers say that about half the world's Jews marry outside the faith, and are calling on Israelis and Jews to enlist to prevent the "strategic national threat" posed by assimilation.


I hope that "lost" Jewish men and women all over the world appreciate that their reproductive organs are "strategic national" assets. Ladies, that vagina is the property of the state of Israel, its destined mission to supply the cadres of the IDF.
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Re: Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby Aetius » Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:12 pm UTC

EMTP wrote: Ladies, that vagina is the property of the state of Israel, its destined mission to supply the cadres of the IDF.


Gives new meaning to the term "military insertion."

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Re: Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby lesliesage » Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:38 pm UTC

Wow. Trying to protect a gene pool... kind of... reminds me of something.

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Re: Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby Maduyn » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:06 am UTC

Wow two replies and already Godwin has sent his messenger i am truly in awe of his great power.
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Re: Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby Arete » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:08 am UTC

People tend to forget that the first Religion / Nation in this region to promote "blood purity" also totally segregated their country against half-casts and actively oppressed them.

Which is why "The Good Samaritan" was such political dynamite back then.


Matter of historical fact: Nazi's weren't the only ones running ethnic purity campaigns. And no, its not racist / hateful to point this out, its just fact. (And sadly, they weren't even the first to consider genocide as a solution to it.)

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Re: Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby lesliesage » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:28 am UTC

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Re: Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby TheGrammarBolshevik » Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:27 am UTC

Arete wrote:People tend to forget that the first Religion / Nation in this region to promote "blood purity" also totally segregated their country against half-casts and actively oppressed them.

Which is why "The Good Samaritan" was such political dynamite back then.

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Re: Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby Lycur » Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:24 am UTC

How about a source that's not Haaretz? Reading the article it sounds like the ads are actually promoting programs to have young Jews visit Isreal. The reproduction control thing strikes me as silly sensationalism.

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Re: Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby Comic JK » Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:56 am UTC

I don't get it--why do they care if Jews marry non-Jews? The ashkenazi community is mostly eastern European in ancestry, while the sephardim are primarily of northern Mediterranean descent. Neither group is "pure Jewish," whatever that even means. If your mother is Jewish, then you are too, no matter what the other half is. Sending Israeli women abroad should lead to more Jews, not fewer! X)
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Re: Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby aleflamedyud » Sat Sep 05, 2009 6:02 pm UTC

Why are you people falling for this sensationalistic bullshit? This is not about race or gorram blood purity. This is about religion. A non-Jewish person who converts to our religion to marry a Jew is welcomed and embraced. A Jew who marries out and abandons their religion is mourned because to us they are lost: their family will never be a part of our family. A branch of the tree is cauterized and a link in the chain of generations cut off.

Admittedly, it's a cheesy ass-commercial, and I really wish all the Israelis so damn concerned with "Jewish identity" would start teaching their own kids more about Jewish culture, tradition, and religion rather than letting them become Saudi-esque Haredi fanatics or sleazy douchebags who hit on any girl they find in the bar... but still. The basic idea is good.
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Re: Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby fjafjan » Sat Sep 05, 2009 6:38 pm UTC

aleflamedyud wrote:Why are you people falling for this sensationalistic bullshit? This is not about race or gorram blood purity. This is about religion.
Well THEN it's perfectly fine.
A Jew who marries out and abandons their religion is mourned because to us they are lost: their family will never be a part of our family. A branch of the tree is cauterized and a link in the chain of generations cut off.


You don't see a problem with this? Really? That if your children don't chose the same religion as you they are no longer your child? That is FUCKED UP.
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Re: Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby aleflamedyud » Sat Sep 05, 2009 6:43 pm UTC

fjafjan wrote:
aleflamedyud wrote:Why are you people falling for this sensationalistic bullshit? This is not about race or gorram blood purity. This is about religion.
Well THEN it's perfectly fine.
A Jew who marries out and abandons their religion is mourned because to us they are lost: their family will never be a part of our family. A branch of the tree is cauterized and a link in the chain of generations cut off.


You don't see a problem with this? Really? That if your children don't chose the same religion as you they are no longer your child? That is FUCKED UP.

How about you just cease telling other people what their feelings should be? Now. Because what I just read wasn't your usual, it wasn't a political opinion on the Middle East that disagrees with mine. What I just read was your telling me that my entire people are fucked up if we think in a way you don't want us to on intermarriage.

Please, just put down the God complex and have a cup of tea. You're entitled to your views, and we are entitled to ours.
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Re: Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby Lumpy » Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:13 pm UTC

It just reminds me a little of 1950s justification for how Southern parents ostracized children that participated in interracial marriage, by tying it into defiance of their religion, and just because it's an aspect of a religion doesn't mean it's immune from being criticized, like practices among Southern Baptists thinking women shouldn't preach, and arranged marriages.

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Re: Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby lesliesage » Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:21 pm UTC

aleflamedyud wrote:Please, just put down the God complex and have a cup of tea. You're entitled to your views, and we are entitled to ours.
Being entitled to your opinion doesn't entitle you to not hearing that it's fucked up.

It's fucked up.

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Re: Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby fjafjan » Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:42 pm UTC

aleflamedyud wrote:
fjafjan wrote:
aleflamedyud wrote:Why are you people falling for this sensationalistic bullshit? This is not about race or gorram blood purity. This is about religion.
Well THEN it's perfectly fine.
A Jew who marries out and abandons their religion is mourned because to us they are lost: their family will never be a part of our family. A branch of the tree is cauterized and a link in the chain of generations cut off.


You don't see a problem with this? Really? That if your children don't chose the same religion as you they are no longer your child? That is FUCKED UP.

How about you just cease telling other people what their feelings should be? Now. Because what I just read wasn't your usual, it wasn't a political opinion on the Middle East that disagrees with mine. What I just read was your telling me that my entire people are fucked up if we think in a way you don't want us to on intermarriage.

Yes I did. Because it is. Most people in the world have realized that closed groups are bad. It causes conflicts when you say "You hang out with your type, we'll hang out with our", no matter if it's religion, race or political opinions.
Now it's not an uncommon opinion, but usually it's practiced as it is preached, so you don't get to talk to them very often but it IS fucked up. it's fucked up that your family relations depend upon your religion, or the religion of your husband or wife.

Aflamedyod wrote:Please, just put down the God complex and have a cup of tea. You're entitled to your views, and we are entitled to ours.

Of course you are. It's also the worst damned defense there ever was, as it is just as capable to defending every reprehensible opinion there has ever been.
And I don't drink tea, but thank you anyway.
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Re: Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby Gellert1984 » Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:47 pm UTC

Damn I wish it was that easy to get disowned by my family, I've only managed to get off of half there christmas card lists so far...

I will have the cup 'o tea, 1 sugar and milk, tah very much.
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Re: Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby aleflamedyud » Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:50 pm UTC

Lumpy wrote:It just reminds me a little of 1950s justification for how Southern parents ostracized children that participated in interracial marriage, by tying it into defiance of their religion

Right, except that this was a cover for racism. The Jewish issue is not. Once again, we embrace converts (literally!). If Jew A dates Gentile B, and Gentile B converts to get married to Jew A, we regard this as not merely "maintaining" Jew A but gaining New Jew B.

If two Jews get married under a chupah with a ketubah, nobody has legitimate religious grounds under Judaism to give a damn what they look like (though it is required that one be wife and the other husband).

Personally, I find myself agreeing with this bit from Ha'aretz. Lots of Jews are "leaving the fold" because being a Diasporan Jew has become a bit too literally a matter of joining the right club. Religious fanatics and shtetl fetishists have taken over organized Jewry and firmly entrenched their early-twentieth-century notion of what it is to be Jewish: go to synagogue, obey the preferably Orthodox halachot, give (lots) to Jewish charities, support Israel (but don't actually make aliyah because that would stop you giving to your original community's Jewish charities), speak Yiddish (which excludes the Sfardim and Mizrachim), get jobs working for aforementioned Jewish organizations, listen to klezmer music, find a Nice Jewish Girl or Nice Jewish Boy, get married, make Jewish Babies (capital letters spoken all throughout Jewish America), send Jewish Kids to Jewish day-school and summer camps, and finally send them to yeshivah, Young Judea, Birthright, or MASA programs to make the program tail-recurse.

As much as I utterly believe in Jewish nationhood and believe relatively strongly in the principles of the Jewish faith, doesn't that all sound monumentally stupid? News flash: when you take a people's culture from them and turn it into a fetishized parody of its former self instead of allowing it to evolve naturally while charing people large sums to participate in the parody, people run from it.
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Re: Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby The Reaper » Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:56 pm UTC

I love tea, and disowning family for thinking differently than you is a complete dick move.

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Re: Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby aleflamedyud » Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:32 pm UTC

The Reaper wrote:I love tea, and disowning family for thinking differently than you is a complete dick move.

Is it a dick move to disown someone for disowning our family?

That's what the whole last post full of Jewish dirty laundry was attempting to explain: despite mainstream Jewish organizations attempting to define being Jewish as being part of them, renouncing Judaism and Jewry completely for assimilation means you are disowning your own family. Why do you expect their support in that move?

EDIT: I'm starting to get that the Gentiles on this board don't really know all that much about what it is to be Jewish. OK. Maybe one of these posts I'll explain.
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Re: Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby Lumpy » Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:40 pm UTC

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Re: Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby lesliesage » Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:45 pm UTC

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Re: Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby aleflamedyud » Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:54 pm UTC

Lumpy wrote:So it's like Mormon excommunication in some respects?

While all I know about Mormon excommunication is what I learned from Wikipedia, I didn't find anything to make it like what we have, or rather don't have, in Judaism.

We Jews have not practiced any form of real excommunication in centuries, and what we practiced centuries ago was reliant upon the rabbi in City A agreeing to uphold a cherem (order forbidding a person to practice Judaism) issued by the rabbi of Village B. By Jewish law, you cannot be ejected from Judaism except for the highest religious offenses, and even then a repeated offense and repeated defiance of a religious court is required for actual excommunication. It's just not done.

We don't kick you out, but if you leave yourself you can expect us to mourn the loss of you. Intermarrying is considered a form of leaving. We ain't gonna stop you, but we refuse to condone it.
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Re: Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby Lumpy » Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:13 pm UTC

I view disowning a son or daughter for changing religions then saying that he or she disowned their parents first as extremely warped reasoning that comes down to "you made me hurt you."

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Re: Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby Heavenlytoaster » Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:22 pm UTC

Sometimes I wonder why we have militant atheists like Dawkins, then I read stories like this and the world makes sense again, kinda.

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Re: Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby The Reaper » Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:25 pm UTC

Heavenlytoaster wrote:Sometimes I wonder why we have militant atheists like Dawkins, then I read stories like this and the world makes sense again, kinda.

Militant?

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Re: Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby Heavenlytoaster » Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:29 pm UTC

Spreading the "religion CAUSES evil" type of message.

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Re: Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby lesliesage » Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:35 pm UTC

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Re: Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby netcrusher88 » Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:44 pm UTC

I'm not entirely convinced that's Dawkins' position, though he's often viewed that way. I don't know for sure but it seems very caricature-ish.

I agree the whole disowning people for marrying outside the faith is stupid. It really is not substantially different from the same thing with race or nationality.
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Re: Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby fjafjan » Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:56 pm UTC

netcrusher88 wrote:I agree the whole disowning people for marrying outside the faith is stupid. It really is not substantially different from the same thing with race or nationality.

Northern Ireland seems a very apt parallel.
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Re: Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby poxic » Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:07 pm UTC

aleflamedyud, it sounds like you're saying "religion = culture = family". It sounds like others are saying "it's a bad idea to equate religion with family because it's the same as equating race or politics with family".

I don't want to get into the argument, but did I get the gist of it?
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Re: Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby Aetius » Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:17 pm UTC

I think you guys are really underestimate the claims that religion makes and the effect it has on people who truly believe. This isn't something they do, it's who they are.

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Re: Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby lesliesage » Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:30 pm UTC

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Re: Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby Pez Dispens3r » Sun Sep 06, 2009 12:11 am UTC

netcrusher88 wrote:I'm not entirely convinced that's Dawkins' position, though he's often viewed that way. I don't know for sure but it seems very caricature-ish.


From the preface of God Delusion:
Imagine, with John Lennon, a world with no religion. Imagine no suicide bombers, no 9/11, no 7/7, no Crusades, no Israeli/Palestine wars, no Serb/Croat/Muslim massacres, no persecution of the Jews as 'Christ-killers', no Northern Ireland 'troubles'...

Religion is not the only equation in any of these things (except the 'Christ-killers' thing--at least he wasn't dumb enough to imply all persecution of Jews is the result of religion), yet he implies they wouldn't have happened were it not for religion. The man's an asshat. If his book was a Wikipedia article, it would be full of [weasel words] tags.
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Re: Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby Aikanaro » Sun Sep 06, 2009 12:18 am UTC

I think you guys are also misinterpreting the tone of the message Israel is trying to send. It's not "You've abandoned us, now GTFO, traitor." It's "You've moved further away from us and aren't as connected with us as you once were. We remember you, love you and miss you. We want you back. Return to us, please."
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Re: Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby yoni45 » Sun Sep 06, 2009 12:26 am UTC

Wait, this can't be right.

You mean to tell me that there's a religious group out there somewhere that tries to keep it's members from intermarrying? What a shocker.

(It's like watching a bunch of people get surprised over the sky being blue. And then getting self-righteous over it. Let's throw Nazis into the mix.)
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Re: Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby Lucrece » Sun Sep 06, 2009 12:29 am UTC

Would a Jew marrying a person of a different faith while maintaining his/her Judaism ( and they have both a Jewish and Catholic wedding, if the other person is Catholic, to please both families) still warrant disowning? How about raising their future children to be exposed and open to both religions, and pick whichever one they feel most attracted to?

It just would seem...prepotent to try to coerce the son/daughter's fiancee into renouncing their religion.

Concerning the disowning of a family member who renounces the faith, isn't it sad? Their beliefs have changed, but I'm pretty certain the person you dealt with all this time has not. So how can a family sacrifice a relationship for a mere change in philosophy?
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Re: Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby joshz » Sun Sep 06, 2009 12:49 am UTC

aleflamedyud:
PLEASE stop speaking for all Jews.
Reform (and, AFAIK, Conservative, and maybe Reconstructionist too, IDK) movements do NOT believe you should act like someone who marries a non-Jew is dead.

That's an extreme position. Stop making my religion seem like it's made up of dicks.
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Re: Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby Outchanter » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:58 am UTC

Yep, reform Judaism is the largest movement in America. Parents in mixed marriages are generally welcomed and encouraged to expose their kids to Jewish ideas and festivals. Some kids get to celebrate חנוכה and Christmas/Kwanzaa/Agnostica.

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Re: Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby joshz » Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:06 am UTC

Outchanter wrote:חנוכה
If you don't read hebrew, that's Chanukah.
And yes, Outchanter is correct.
You, sir, name? wrote:If you have over 26 levels of nesting, you've got bigger problems ... than variable naming.
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Re: Israel: report Jews in danger of marrying goyim

Postby gmalivuk » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:31 am UTC

aleflamedyud wrote:I'm starting to get that the Gentiles on this board don't really know all that much about what it is to be Jewish.

Many of the Jews on this board as well, if you were actually the sole arbiter of what counts as Judaism in the modern world...
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