UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

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UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby TheAmazingRando » Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:56 pm UTC

The Guardian wrote:In the sweltering California heat with their placards, posters, red armbands and chants of "no cuts, no fees, education should be free", the demonstrators packed in to Sproul Plaza at the centre of University of California Berkeley campus today meant business.

The crowd cheered and passing cars hooted as speakers implored them to fight state authorities' plans to hike student fees and lay off workers.

Daniella, a petite second-year Latina undergraduate sitting quietly in the shade echoed what many making the rallying calls were articulating. "My whole life I wanted to come here. If they increase the fees I will have to drop out. We have to fight this."

The Berkeley protest was one of many held across California in an unprecedented day of action directed at university authorities and state governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger as he attempts to curb the state's multibillion-dollar budget crisis. Faculty, students and unions from the University of California's 10 campuses including its two most prestigious, UCLA and Berkeley, joined forces in what was the biggest student protest for more than a generation.

...
For those of you unaware, the University of California system is facing massive cuts in funding as part of California's new budget. Because, you know, cutting funding to some of the top public schools in the country - UC Berkeley, Los Angeles, and San Diego - is a totally sound economic move. As a result of this, the schools are making drastic cutbacks in local admissions (favoring those from out of state and country who pay much more), courses offered, and in professor pay. In addition, undergraduate student fees are expected to rise by over $10,000/yr, which coupled with the state's cutbacks in college grants means a lot of people are going to be forced to drop out, mainly those of low income families, which means - big surprise - losing a lot of minority students in a system which already falls woefully short in the area of ethnic diversity. I know some very good, conscientious students who may be forced to drop out because of this.

Most important all this is the looming threat of near total privatization, which threatens to turn the entire system away from its original intent, which was to offer top-quality education to all those who qualified academically, regardless of economic class, to yet another collection of schools that only the rich can afford to attend.

But I guess crippling the education is more acceptable, politically, than raising taxes. We take pride in having some of the best universities in the world, yet we shit on them at every opportunity.

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Re: UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby PhoenixEnigma » Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:29 pm UTC

Maybe I'm missing something as a Canadian, but US$10K? What is that as a percentage? No matter what, that's pretty severe - as in, abysmal.

Also, yes. Cutting education (or a lot of other, useful things) is politcally better then raising taxes. Killing education causes problems later, for someone else to deal with. Raising taxes makes you unpopular now, and makes getting reelected harder. It's a terrible system that priorizes short term gain at the expense of some long term problems.
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Re: UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby MrGee » Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:35 pm UTC

Thank god I didn't stay at UCLA.

I've never heard anyone give a good reason why college tuition costs have been skyrocketing ahead of general inflation. Is it just those greedy teachers unions??

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Re: UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby TheAmazingRando » Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:41 pm UTC

It's a hike of 32%. I live at home so I only pay $12K a year, but with room and board it comes to more like $18K.
There are some pretty great programs in the state right now that mean lower income students can go almost free of charge, however. I know people who have their tuition covered with money left over for books, computers, etc. I'm pretty sure these are being trimmed quite heavily with the new budget.

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Re: UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby MrGee » Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:17 am UTC

Actually now that I think about it, I have heard that colleges keep raising tuition but increase financial aid by a lot too, so that the rich people pay an outrageous price and po' people go for free. Hooray income redistribution?

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Re: UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby psyck0 » Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:07 am UTC

My school (in Canada) is facing 5% budget cuts per year. That's pretty severe.

Education SHOULD be free, but it isn't, because we live with a lot of morons who are averse to paying taxes to save themselves money later, and with a lot of other morons who get a useless university degree to go do something completely unrelated, costing the system thousands of dollars in the process and making bachelor's degrees pretty much irrelevant.

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Re: UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby Oort » Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:41 am UTC

Yeah. As a UC student i'm concerned.

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Re: UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby Sartorius » Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:48 am UTC

MrGee wrote:Actually now that I think about it, I have heard that colleges keep raising tuition but increase financial aid by a lot too, so that the rich people pay an outrageous price and po' people go for free. Hooray income redistribution?


Uh....what?

Financial aid also includes loans, so if the whole "free" thing only works if you mean "doesn't have to pay now." However, it can also mean scholarships, which are dependent upon academic achievement and given to students regardless of race/income levels, so I still don't understand where you're getting your ideas from.
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Re: UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby Chen » Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:52 pm UTC

TheAmazingRando wrote:But I guess crippling the education is more acceptable, politically, than raising taxes. We take pride in having some of the best universities in the world, yet we shit on them at every opportunity.


Isn't there some vote quota needed in California to raises taxes? I seem to recall something about how a certain majority needed to vote in some manner to get any type of budgetary motion passed but the details are eluding me at the moment.

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Re: UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby Atlas. » Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:11 pm UTC

I think it is interesting that imbedded in the story the notion that secondary education should be free or heavily subsidized. Nothing comes free, so what they really mean is I want someone else to pay for me to go to college so I can make an average of $23,000 more a year. (http://money.cnn.com/2006/10/25/pf/coll ... /index.htm). By what right do we demand that someone else pay for our education so that we can get a better job? To be an informed person who is beneficial to society you do not have to go to college, there are plenty of ways to learn outside of it, the only reason to go is to prove to a potential employer with a degree that you have the knowledge you say you do.
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Re: UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby Ixtellor » Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:15 pm UTC

Simple reason why:

Old people like jails, free medicine, and um... free stuff for them.
Young people like cheap school, higher minimum wages, skate parks, etc.

Old people vote, young people do not vote...

So if you are in California and you have a choice between cutting stuff old people want, or stuff young people want... guess who wins?

California is in a pickle, and tough choices have to be made. Because cutting education offends less voters, I am not shocked they are going that route.


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Re: UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby Malice » Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:33 pm UTC

Atlas. wrote:I think it is interesting that imbedded in the story the notion that secondary education should be free or heavily subsidized. Nothing comes free, so what they really mean is I want someone else to pay for me to go to college so I can make an average of $23,000 more a year. (http://money.cnn.com/2006/10/25/pf/coll ... /index.htm). By what right do we demand that someone else pay for our education so that we can get a better job? To be an informed person who is beneficial to society you do not have to go to college, there are plenty of ways to learn outside of it, the only reason to go is to prove to a potential employer with a degree that you have the knowledge you say you do.


There are plenty of ways to learn outside of college, but there's a difference between informed ("I know about politics because I read blogs--in between my job at McDonald's and my job at the McDonald's down the street from the other one") and educated ("I know about particle physics and will use that knowledge to invent things!"). They're both useful states as far as society is concerned, but one is more important. Hint: it's the one that helps us cure AIDS. It's theoretically possible that my surgeon could teach himself sitting at home eating Cheetos and perusing a medical textbook during the commercial breaks of Jerry Springer, but I personally would like the assurance that somebody, you know, checked his work.
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Re: UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby Heisenberg » Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:46 pm UTC

First, they're averse to raising taxes not only because of bad political fallout, but also because they think that it's one of the worst things you can do in a recession. Economically, they're trying to stimulate growth and attract employers, not stifle the ones they already have.

Second, do people really believe that university education is a "right" and should be "free?" It's not free, and I have no problem with asking the students of UC Berkeley to graduate with as many student loans as the rest of us. If you're going to be a productive member of society, you can afford to pay back those loans. If not, why do you think you deserve taxpayer money?

To me, this sounds like "Oh God, the state isn't giving me free money so I'll have to borrow interest free from the federal government!!! MY LIFE IS OVER!!!"

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Re: UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby Atlas. » Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:52 pm UTC

Yes, but that is the surgeons job and he makes a lot of money doing it, enough to pay for his own college. I don't think he should get a free ride through college paid by other people who won't get near the benefit from it that he will. And I think the key here is being forced to pay for others, I think scholarships are a great way to make it easier for smart, qualified people to get the degrees and training they need, but to just make college free for the societal benefit I don't think makes much sense.
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Re: UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby psyck0 » Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:53 pm UTC

Education isn't a right, and no one is arguing that it should be. Quit quote-sniping and distorting other people's arguments; I know you're good at it, but it's a shitty tactic. Post-secondary education should be free because it promotes economic growth. Ireland in the 90s was losing all its young people to go to school elsewhere because education cost so much and because Ireland was a lousy place to live at the time. This was REALLY hurting them- they had a bad shortage of professional workers. They made education free, and their economy shot up. The problem with doing this now is that so many people are getting useless degrees that they won't ever use. Masters and PhDs are still pretty much free (you get paid way more than they cost in fees) because universities recognise that it is important to attract and keep those students. I'm not certain it's cost-effective to make undergraduate degrees free anymore, but there IS logic behind it. I know you're a neocon and hate paying for anything for anyone else, but sometimes it's worth it.

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Re: UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby Atlas. » Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:57 pm UTC

My response was mainly to this line in the article:

"My whole life I wanted to come here. If they increase the fees I will have to drop out. We have to fight this."

And this qoute

psyck0 wrote:My school (in Canada) is facing 5% budget cuts per year. That's pretty severe.
Education SHOULD be free, but it isn't, because we live with a lot of morons who are averse to paying taxes to save themselves money later, and with a lot of other morons who get a useless university degree to go do something completely unrelated, costing the system thousands of dollars in the process and making bachelor's degrees pretty much irrelevant.
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Re: UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby Atlas. » Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:05 pm UTC

I don't hate paying for things for other people. I just don't like being forced to do it especially when I see no benefit in doing it. People will go to college, graduate, and be successful scientists and doctors without me. I also don't think it is fair to compare the U.S. to Ireland because we have great schools; more people are trying to get into them than can get into them. There is no reason to incentivize people into Colleges that area already full.
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Re: UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby Naurgul » Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:07 pm UTC

Wow, there are people who actually believe that education should not be / is not a right. On the other side of the pond, it's really a wholly different world. You learn something new every day. Ugh. :(
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Re: UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby Heisenberg » Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:08 pm UTC

psyck0 wrote:Post-secondary education should be free because it promotes economic growth.
A lot of things promote economic growth. Are you suggesting that the government should fund anything and everything that promotes economic growth? Should the government cover my medical school, and law school, and doctorate in Native American Women's Oral Tradition?
psyck0 wrote:They made education free,
Except that they didn't. Education is not free. They made education a social service. In doing so they devalued bachelor's degrees, but this certainly did not make them free.
psyck0 wrote:I know you're a neocon and hate paying for anything for anyone else, but sometimes it's worth it.
This made me laugh. :)

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Re: UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby The Great Hippo » Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:11 pm UTC

Heisenberg wrote:A lot of things promote economic growth. Are you suggesting that the government should fund anything and everything that promotes economic growth? Should the government cover my medical school, and law school, and doctorate in Native American Women's Oral Tradition?
If it's a good investment that will provide good returns, yes. Why do you ask? Do you have a problem with the government making good investments?

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Re: UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby Heisenberg » Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:16 pm UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:Do you have a problem with the government making good investments?

Yes. I think the government's role is slightly different than that of JPMorgan Chase.

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Re: UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby Belial » Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:21 pm UTC

Heisenberg wrote:
The Great Hippo wrote:Do you have a problem with the government making good investments?

Yes. I think the government's role is slightly different than that of JPMorgan Chase.


Really? Because generally things that make the economy better make life better, and if you're not doing anything else, I see no reason for the government not to make my life better. I am pretty well in favor.

Now, if they *only* do things that are good investments monetarily, or they privilege "good investments" over other more important things, that's different.
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Re: UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby Heisenberg » Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:31 pm UTC

"Good investment" isn't a criterion on which the government should be making decisions. As an extreme example, euthanasia is an awesome investment, but that's not necessarily what we expect the government to be doing.

I think that the impetus behind education is also humanitarian, and is more based on equality of opportunity and helping people provide for themselves.

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Re: UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby telcontar42 » Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:10 pm UTC

No, "good investment" is a criterion on which the government should be making decisions, it's just not the only criterion. Euthanasia is an absurd example, because there are far more significant considerations.

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Re: UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby Philwelch » Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:26 pm UTC

MrGee wrote:Actually now that I think about it, I have heard that colleges keep raising tuition but increase financial aid by a lot too, so that the rich people pay an outrageous price and po' people go for free. Hooray income redistribution?


The technical term is price discrimination, and universities have been doing it forever.

psyck0 wrote:Post-secondary education should be free because it promotes economic growth.


Is this really, unconditionally true? While I see a rationale for educating more skilled workers, those are the ones who will make enough money to pay back student loans. Where's the economic rationale in subsidizing, for example, philosophy BA's?

The fact is, California is broke. California's gonna get themselves more than their fair share of educated professionals either way, so there's no financial rationale for them to subsidize their public universities in the middle of a fiscal crisis.

Maybe when the politicians grow up and learn to spend within their means we'll let them try to make these kinds of "investments". As it stands, insolvency is a very good reason for the government not to do things.
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Re: UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby Aetius » Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:35 pm UTC

I'm still amazed that California manages to have taxes as high as it does, with services as low as it does, and still manages to be broke. Truly an epic feat of governance.

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Re: UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby MrGee » Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:41 pm UTC

Heh, philosophy degrees are so useless. All you can do with one is teach philosophy, which incentivizes you to lure people into the philosophy department, thus perpetuating the system.

They're basically a parasitic lifeform.

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Re: UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby The Great Hippo » Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:44 pm UTC

MrGee wrote:Heh, philosophy degrees are so useless. All you can do with one is teach philosophy, which incentivizes you to lure people into the philosophy department, thus perpetuating the system.
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Re: UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby Dauric » Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:47 pm UTC

The biggest problem with education as an investment is the growing disparity between the "Cost" and the "Return". Tuition is growing faster than inflation, so with each passing year new graduates are paying more for a smaller return over their lifetime as a percentage of their investment. At some point on these progressions of tuition and inflation you get a better long-term return by putting money in the Stock Market.

Unfortunately it's the loan/grant process that lets colleges charge as much as they do by providing copious amount of money to the economic system that drives the price, and it's been happening so long that everyone takes it as "The Way Things Are Done" (tm) any time the disparity is brought up as a problem.
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Re: UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby MrGee » Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:48 pm UTC

Yeah, that was unfair. In addition to teaching I should have added writing acerbic blogs about nothing and ruining parties. :D

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Re: UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby Hawknc » Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:50 pm UTC

MrGee wrote:writing acerbic blogs about nothing and ruining parties

Finally, somewhere my skill set would be of use!

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Re: UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby Philwelch » Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:39 pm UTC

MrGee wrote:Heh, philosophy degrees are so useless. All you can do with one is teach philosophy, which incentivizes you to lure people into the philosophy department, thus perpetuating the system.

They're basically a parasitic lifeform.


I *have* a philosophy degree. It's a wonderful thing to have. But there's no economic rationale to subsidizing them.

Even though philosophy degrees do help a person understand arguments. For instance, a training in philosophy will help a person distinguish between such distinct arguments "philosophy degrees are useless" and "philosophy degrees have a negative economic cost-benefit". They also help people learn to classify these kind of tactics as straw man fallacies.
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Re: UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby Ixtellor » Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:55 pm UTC

Philwelch wrote:
MrGee wrote:Heh, philosophy degrees are so useless. All you can do with one is teach philosophy, which incentivizes you to lure people into the philosophy department, thus perpetuating the system.

They're basically a parasitic lifeform.


I *have* a philosophy degree. It's a wonderful thing to have. But there's no economic rationale to subsidizing them.

Even though philosophy degrees do help a person understand arguments. For instance, a training in philosophy will help a person distinguish between such distinct arguments "philosophy degrees are useless" and "philosophy degrees have a negative economic cost-benefit". They also help people learn to classify these kind of tactics as straw man fallacies.


I think logic should be a requirement of every college. It is worth subsidizing, and since logic is part of the philosophy department, I think your beating up philosophy too much, it has its economic uses -- with rhetoric and logic being very useful for making money.

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Re: UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby Philwelch » Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:38 pm UTC

I'm not "beating up philosophy" at all. There are a lot of degree programs that provide substantial non-economic benefits, and philosophy is one of them. My life would be all the poorer without it. And my philosophy degree was worth the money to me.

A lot of these degree programs provide personal fulfillment and wisdom, but not necessarily economic value in particular. Which is fine--when we can, we should subsidize things that we think will provide value to society even if they're not marketable.

The problem is, California's broke. So California has to cut back spending. You might say, "spending on education increases tax returns in the future by producing an educated work force". Well, is that really the case? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. If the state subsidizes my philosophy degree, that philosophy degree is not going to enable me to pay more taxes back to the state, despite its other merits. That means it's a cost, not a financial investment. And when you go broke, like California has gone broke, you have to cut costs somewhere.

I have a philosophy degree. On a personal level, it felt more fair to make that my example rather than pick on the English majors.

TheAmazingRando wrote:But I guess crippling the education is more acceptable, politically, than raising taxes. We take pride in having some of the best universities in the world, yet we shit on them at every opportunity.


You guys also have some of the highest state tax rates in the country. How your state government managed to fuck this up is beyond me. Don't blame the state for cutting the budget, blame the state for running out of money so badly they need to cut the budget.
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Re: UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby jesseewiak » Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:52 pm UTC

1. A large chunk of the Western world has figured out that yes, higher education should be free or damn close to it. University fees in France are for example, top out at about 1000 Euro's a year and you get financial aid for the tuition and living stipend to deal with that.

2. California's problem is that their people want a welfare state when it comes to spending, but no taxation at all. California is the largest example that direct democracy is a _bad_ idea when it comes to large amounts of money in state governments because inevitably, people will always vote for more spending, but never pass for a tax increase on themselves. The easiest way to solve a lot of California's budgetary issues would be to reform Prop 13 so it doesn't take a 2/3 vote to pass a budget and make it so commercial buildings don't have the same caps on property taxes the way residential properties do as well.

Also, California's tax burden is #6 according to the Tax Foundation - http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/443.html. However, it's income tax is highly progressive so it's not as bad as it sounds for the average Californian.

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Re: UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby BlackSails » Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:06 pm UTC

jesseewiak wrote:California's problem is that their people want a welfare state when it comes to spending, but no taxation at all.



"A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury"

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Re: UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby Philwelch » Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:40 am UTC

jesseewiak wrote:1. A large chunk of the Western world has figured out that yes, higher education should be free or damn close to it. University fees in France are for example, top out at about 1000 Euro's a year and you get financial aid for the tuition and living stipend to deal with that.


A large chunk of the Western world has also figured out how to run a political system involving large federal expenditures without the process turning into a means to transfer public funds to crony corporations. Until America figures that out, don't expect too much from us.

jesseewiak wrote:Also, California's tax burden is #6 according to the Tax Foundation - http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/443.html. However, it's income tax is highly progressive so it's not as bad as it sounds for the average Californian.


That's actually good for California, since they have so many rich people. That's something that's easier to get away with when you have the climate and other good living conditions that California has to offer. Plus the business climate.
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Re: UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby Jahoclave » Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:48 am UTC

Ixtellor wrote:
Philwelch wrote:
MrGee wrote:Heh, philosophy degrees are so useless. All you can do with one is teach philosophy, which incentivizes you to lure people into the philosophy department, thus perpetuating the system.

They're basically a parasitic lifeform.


I *have* a philosophy degree. It's a wonderful thing to have. But there's no economic rationale to subsidizing them.

Even though philosophy degrees do help a person understand arguments. For instance, a training in philosophy will help a person distinguish between such distinct arguments "philosophy degrees are useless" and "philosophy degrees have a negative economic cost-benefit". They also help people learn to classify these kind of tactics as straw man fallacies.


I think logic should be a requirement of every college. It is worth subsidizing, and since logic is part of the philosophy department, I think your beating up philosophy too much, it has its economic uses -- with rhetoric and logic being very useful for making money.

Ixtellor

P.S. 18 hours of Philosophy, I know who Kant and Decartes are, but wouldn't be able to give them credit for anything I learned from them, because I don't remember what I learned about them.

And not just economic benefiting, but uses in governance as well. By the way, as an English Major, you spelled "Descartes" wrong. :P Though, more than once I've made the comment of English being "philosophy light". You still get a lot of the rational argument training and perspectives on ideologies in culture.


Heisenberg wrote:Second, do people really believe that university education is a "right" and should be "free?" It's not free, and I have no problem with asking the students of UC Berkeley to graduate with as many student loans as the rest of us. If you're going to be a productive member of society, you can afford to pay back those loans. If not, why do you think you deserve taxpayer money?

Yes. I do believe education is a right and should be heavily subsidized, much more than we have a right to join the military, get a gun, and invade other countries. Why should military defense be so much more a right than education, which, would do a hell of a fuck lot more to defend this country than blowing people up?

And as for productive member of society, let's rephrase this. Productive member of society enslaved to a job for years in order to pay off a large amount of debt generate at a state college, thus ensuring that you'll be stuck in a job rather than doing things you'll enjoy, like traveling, producing culture, raising a family, being a productive member of society. Sure, 9-5 is great and all, but is working five days a week really necessary to keep society from collapsing? Sure, you can afford to pay off these loans, but how long is that actually going to take? How long are you going to be claiming tax breaks for paying them off? How long are you not going to take a chance at starting your own business because you're paying off college debt?

There are economic benefits to not having a lot of young adults entering the workforce with large amounts of debt. Sure, monetization of debt is great and all, except for people.

To me, this sounds like "Oh God, the state isn't giving me free money so I'll have to borrow interest free from the federal government!!! MY LIFE IS OVER!!!"

Or more, oh God, I'm middle class and don't qualify for increased federal coverage which means I'll have to take out even more loans, spending more of my life in debt and not getting out of life what I'd like, and that's assuming I can even get a loan from banks increasingly reluctant to loan to students.

And that's not even considering just how much this fucks low income families.

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Ixtellor
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Re: UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby Ixtellor » Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:25 pm UTC

Jahoclave wrote:And not just economic benefiting, but uses in governance as well. By the way, as an English Major, you spelled "Descartes" wrong. Though, more than once I've made the comment of English being "philosophy light". You still get a lot of the rational argument training and perspectives on ideologies in culture.


At many law schools, English majors outperform their peers, due to their ability to write cohesive and er... well written papers.

I have said it many many times, but you learn a lot more at college than your major. A philosophy major is going to learn valuble tools that would in fact make them great corporate salesmen and arbiters, etc.

Saying one major is not economically a positive, assumes you actually persue a career in that field.. which the majority of liberal arts majors do not.


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Re: UC Schools Protest Budget Cuts

Postby MrGee » Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:04 pm UTC

But, theoretically, if you had to cut the education budget, shouldn't you get rid of the philosophy department? After all, they're the most mentally equipped to handle it. They can become bums stoically, knowing it's all for the greater good.


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