Father kills son for raping toddler...

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Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby Pansori » Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:08 am UTC

http://www.wral.com/golo/blogpost/6456783/

An enraged Highland Park, Michigan father is accused of killing his son - as he begged for his life - after learning the teen may have sexually abused a toddler.

Jamar Pinkney Sr., 37, irate over hearing his 15-year-old son Jamar Pinkney Jr. had sexual contact with a 3-year-old girl made the teen strip at gunpoint, marched him to a vacant lot and shot him to death despite pleas from the boy and his mother, a relative said.

Michigan authorities filed a first-degree murder charge Wednesday against Pinkney Sr. in his son's shooting death Monday.

Defense attorney Corbett O'Meara said prosecutors should consider evidence of the father's state of mind over the sex abuse report.

"If something were to happen that would cause a reasonable person to lose control of himself, that is something the prosecution would have to take into account," O'Meara said outside Highland Park District Court.

Tensions were high in the courtroom Wednesday as the handcuffed suspect was led into the room for the arraignment, which lasted less than a minute. "No, No, No," one female relative cried before a police officer escorted her out.

Judge Brigette Officer entered a not guilty plea for Pinkney, who's also charged with assault, and ordered him jailed without bond until a preliminary examination Dec. 1.

"This is something that's hard to deal with for all the parties concerned, including the police," police Chief Ted Caldwell said afterward.

"Highland Park is a small city. These are people who have been members of the community for years." Caldwell said the sexual misconduct allegation that led to the confrontation wasn't part of the police investigation.

The shooting happened Monday night in a vacant lot in the once-prosperous city of 16,000, where decay, abandonment, fires and demolition have eaten away at many of the sprawling homes.

Highland Park recently exited years of state financial oversight. Visitors built an impromptu memorial at the shooting site. Two votive candles sat amid 10 stuffed animals, including two white teddy bears with red hearts embroidered with, "I love you."

The boy's mother, Lazette Cherry, told the Detroit Free Press that her son told her he had improper sexual contact with the girl.

"I called and told his father. This isn't something you sweep under the rug," she said. Cherry said the elder Pinkney arrived at the home with a gun, ordered his son to strip and marched him outside despite her protests.

"He got on his knees and begged, `No, Daddy, No,' and he pulled the trigger," Cherry said.

Cherry did not immediately respond to a message Wednesday from The Associated Press seeking comment.


Thought this story was sad but fascinating... The toddler turned out to be the boy's half sister (the father's daughter). Vigilante justice at its best or worst?

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Re: Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby Bright Shadows » Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:15 am UTC

What a horrible set of events. Absolutely horrible.
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Re: Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby netcrusher88 » Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:41 am UTC

Pansori wrote:Vigilante justice at its best or worst?

A prime example of why vigilante justice is never good, more like.

Or more simply, just first degree murder. Seems like a pretty clear case to me.
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Re: Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby Rakysh » Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:59 am UTC

:(. Not a great deal to say. What an awful situation.

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Re: Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby CueBall » Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:08 am UTC

Oh dear.

To be frank, that poor woman.
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Re: Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby BlackSails » Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:35 pm UTC

I bet you his lawyer argued for bail, based on the fact that he has family and ties to the community.

But yes, horrible all around.

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Re: Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby Duban » Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:57 pm UTC

The father is probebly the one who raised the boy to be so messed up. I can't imagine having a father who would do something like that NOT leaving one mentally scarred.
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Re: Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby MrGee » Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:35 pm UTC

Justice, don't fail me now!

I have to say though, teddy bears do not seem a fitting memorial for someone accused (accused!) of child molestation.

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Re: Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby Cytoplasm » Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:40 pm UTC

This seems to be a great case of ethics. It was probably the right thing to do for the boy to tell his mother, which may conclude he wanted help and felt remorse. It all seems very bizarre though.
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Re: Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby MrGee » Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:42 pm UTC

Cytoplasm wrote:This seems to be a great case of ethics. It was probably the right thing to do for the boy to tell his mother, which may conclude he wanted help and felt remorse. It all seems very bizarre though.


Pedophile panic?

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Re: Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby Cytoplasm » Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:47 pm UTC

That could be but, if no one knew, why tell? Although, we do not know how his confession or why it unfolded.
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Re: Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby Pansori » Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:56 pm UTC

Cytoplasm wrote:This seems to be a great case of ethics....


I thought the same thing, but along the lines of did the father do the right thing for killing the boy, or should he have let the courts handle it? After all, who hasn't read or heard someone say something along the lines of 'A pedophile deserves to be shot, strung up..." etc etc. On the MSNBC comments where I first read about it I would say the posts were split down the middle: half thought it was a horrible injustice, and the other half said the boy got what he deserved, one less pedo being ushered through the system.

It is a shame we'll never know the whole story, though.

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Re: Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby Rakysh » Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:03 pm UTC

Peadophilia is (AFAIK) an illness, and people getting killed for it is silly. Kid needed help, not a bullet.

Pansori wrote:After all, who hasn't read or heard someone say something along the lines of 'A pedophile deserves to be shot, strung up..."

Oh, well if it's being written down and said, it can't be an awful idea. Just cos people have conceived of something, doesn't mean it deserves consideration.

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Re: Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby Hooch » Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:13 pm UTC

Cytoplasm wrote:That could be but, if no one knew, why tell? Although, we do not know how his confession or why it unfolded.


It was most likely a, "I need to get this off my chest," situation.

In all honesty, I can see myself beating the boy senseless in that state of mind, but killing him was a bit extreme.
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Re: Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby gmalivuk » Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:08 pm UTC

Beating him senseless would have been extreme as well, just not as much.
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Re: Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby BlackSails » Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:28 pm UTC

In Rome btw, this would have been perfectly acceptable. The paterfamilias had the power of life and death over his family, and it was his duty to make sure they all grew up to be good roman citizens.

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Re: Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby la fée verte » Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:24 pm UTC

BlackSails wrote:In Rome btw, this would have been perfectly acceptable. The paterfamilias had the power of life and death over his family, and it was his duty to make sure they all grew up to be good roman citizens.


Well, yeah... But in Ancient Rome, raping little girls was pretty much acceptable as long as you were courteous enough to ask their owner's permission first. It's not the best culture to go trying to base morality on. :shock:

I have nothing on-topic to contribute, I'm sorry, this just... defies all words or attempts to figure out how I feel about it. What an awful chain of events from beginning to end.
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Re: Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby Anubis » Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:30 pm UTC

In my opinion both the father and the son got what they deserved (the son for molesting his cousin and the father for taking the law into his own hands). I just feel sorry for all the friends and family who are now traumatized, and especially the poor little girl who got molested.

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Re: Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby Diadem » Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:02 pm UTC

Rakysh wrote:Peadophilia is (AFAIK) an illness, and people getting killed for it is silly. Kid needed help, not a bullet.

Well there is, per definition, something wrong with all people who commit serious crimes. That's not really an argument against punishing them. Maybe for some illnesses the best treatment really is a bullet to the brain. It certainly is the most efficient (if perhaps not the most humane) method of protection society.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying what this guy did was right. I'm just saying that the 'pedofiles are ill, not criminal' line of reasoning does not hold water.
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Re: Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby Texas_Ben » Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:10 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying what this guy did was right. I'm just saying that the 'pedofiles are ill, not criminal' line of reasoning does not hold water.

Except that it's only criminal to act on such urges, and if you can get them the treatment they need maybe they won't.

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Re: Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby BlackSails » Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:17 pm UTC

la fée verte wrote:
BlackSails wrote:In Rome btw, this would have been perfectly acceptable. The paterfamilias had the power of life and death over his family, and it was his duty to make sure they all grew up to be good roman citizens.


Well, yeah... But in Ancient Rome, raping little girls was pretty much acceptable as long as you were courteous enough to ask their owner's permission first. It's not the best culture to go trying to base morality on. :shock:


Oh, it was just trivia, not really anything substantive. The romans themselves realized it wasnt a great idea, and the power of the paterfamilias was greatly reduced over time.

Other things the paterfamilias could do: Sell his children into slavery (up to 3 times), sieze any of his family's property (including adults). Also, if a slave killed the paterfamilias, all the slaves owned by the family would be executed.

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Re: Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby Mokele » Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:46 pm UTC

The problem is, while it's a legitimate psychological illness, it's also one which a) poses a serious danger to others and b) has no cure nor method to reduce danger.

This brings up a whole host of thorny issues: is it acceptable to condemn someone to life in prison based on a single occurrence and the *probability* of repeat offenses? Should minors who show signs of the illness be treated the same as adults? Would such stringent sentencing only have the effect of making pedophiles more likely to kill this victims in order to dispose of the witness? If we do discover a cure, do we have the right to compel people to accept it, even if it involves something as invasive as brain surgery? Should we be able to lock up those who confess their illness *before* they act on their urges?

And while part of me (a large part) wants to applaud the father for what he did and treat it just and necessary, we cannot predict what the future holds. What if, 5 or 10 years from now, that kid would have been able to get a quick bit of brain surgery and be completely cured, left only the serve his time for the crime he committed? The presumed danger would have been illusory.
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Re: Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby Xeio » Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:52 pm UTC

Texas_Ben wrote:
Diadem wrote:Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying what this guy did was right. I'm just saying that the 'pedofiles are ill, not criminal' line of reasoning does not hold water.
Except that it's only criminal to act on such urges, and if you can get them the treatment they need maybe they won't.
Is there any research that you can actually 'treat' pedophilia? Or is this like 'treating' gays...?

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Re: Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby RealityPlusPlus » Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:26 pm UTC

This post had objectionable content.
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Re: Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby Box Boy » Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:38 pm UTC

Xeio wrote:
Texas_Ben wrote:
Diadem wrote:Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying what this guy did was right. I'm just saying that the 'pedofiles are ill, not criminal' line of reasoning does not hold water.
Except that it's only criminal to act on such urges, and if you can get them the treatment they need maybe they won't.
Is there any research that you can actually 'treat' pedophilia? Or is this like 'treating' gays...?

To me it's like "treating" gays. For all I care you can masturbate to lolicon, fantasize about two ear olds and generally act like a person of a different sexual orientation would. However, I draw the line at actually acting on the urges or posessing child pornography.
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Re: Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby psyck0 » Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:42 pm UTC

Rakysh wrote:Peadophilia is (AFAIK) an illness, and people getting killed for it is silly. Kid needed help, not a bullet.

Pansori wrote:After all, who hasn't read or heard someone say something along the lines of 'A pedophile deserves to be shot, strung up..."

Oh, well if it's being written down and said, it can't be an awful idea. Just cos people have conceived of something, doesn't mean it deserves consideration.

It's an illness as much as homosexuality is an illness, which is to say not at all. Still, it's also not something these people really have control over. Can you imagine denying your sexuality for your entire life? I'd kill myself.

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Re: Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby TheGrammarBolshevik » Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:45 pm UTC

This just in: classification of mental disorders a relative, culture-defined undertaking.
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Re: Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby DieJay » Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:48 pm UTC

I got mixed feelings about this. Of course I can say right off the bat that it was a terrible offense for the father to kill his son even if he did molest a 3 years old girl. The fact he had to confess to his mother most likely means he had remorses and probably wanted help or something, so he wasn't totally a bad person, even less deserved death. I also believe that every negative differences people have, such as sexual deviances, mental or physical handicaps or even improper mindsets, are simply natural imperfections and although they may lead to bigger problems, it's not the person's fault for what he learned or was born with. This boy needed help, not a bullet in the head.

Now, the serie of events presented here is so unlikely and all around immoral that it almost feels unreal. You know those comics or movies like Sin City where you tell yourself "thank god life's not actually like that"? Looks like it it after all...
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Re: Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby netcrusher88 » Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:49 pm UTC

Pansori wrote:did the father do the right thing for killing the boy, or should he have let the courts handle it?

No. The father committed murder. The criminal justice system exists for a reason. Namely, justice.

I don't get what's so hard about this.
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Re: Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby Cynical Idealist » Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:55 pm UTC

Pansori wrote:did the father do the right thing for killing the boy, or should he have let the courts handle it?

The Right Thing To Do™ would be to turn the boy in to the criminal justice system along with any evidence the father had encountered. Killing the boy is murder, regardless of the reason.
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Re: Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby sje46 » Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:55 pm UTC

TheGrammarBolshevik wrote:This just in: classification of mental disorders a relative, culture-defined undertaking.

There are three criteria for mental disorders. It has to be psychological/behavioral (obviously...this criteria is just to rule out things like physical disabilities), it has to affect your life or other lives negatively, and it has to NOT be culturally accepted
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For this, I'm unsure even if homosexuality should be considered one or not.

So you sir,
psyck0 wrote:.

It's an illness as much as homosexuality is an illness, which is to say not at all. Still, it's also not something these people really have control over. Can you imagine denying your sexuality for your entire life? I'd kill myself.
are incorrect.
Pedophilia is psychological, causes distress (as you said), and is probably the least culturally accepted thing in America today.

EDIT: misplaced comma.
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Re: Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby Box Boy » Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:59 pm UTC

By that logic, so is every single fetish in existence to some extent and a large number of sexualities. So it really doesn't change anything even if it is a mental disorder.
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Re: Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby TheGrammarBolshevik » Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:01 pm UTC

Yeah, sje, I think you might want to check your definitions. A lot of disorders are far from culturally accepted.
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Re: Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby sje46 » Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:08 pm UTC

TheGrammarBolshevik wrote:Yeah, sje, I think you might want to check your definitions. A lot of disorders are far from culturally accepted.

That's what I said. That's part of the definition. To be a mental disorder, it can't be culturally accepted.

Box Boy wrote:By that logic, so is every single fetish in existence to some extent and a large number of sexualities. So it really doesn't change anything even if it is a mental disorder.
I doubt most fetishes cause distress. I could be wrong. I don't know how much distress it has to cause, but if it's a lot, then it's a mental disorder. For a large number of sexualities, they are disorders too. I don't see how that's objectionable. Like Fretteurism, peeping tom-ism, beastiality, etc.
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Re: Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby psyck0 » Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:11 pm UTC

sje meant can't be culturally accepted, otherwise many forms of religion would be psychosis. (Really, that's what the clause is for.)

Box Boy, every single fetish is in the DSM as a possible disorder, but it only actually is one if it impairs functioning (i.e. if they are unhappy and have a lousy sex life liking feet).

sje, I know the DSM definitions. There is a fourth clause: the illness/behaviour can't be caused by an underlying medical condition. Here, I would argue that it is: I think sexuality is more biological than psychological, as evidenced by the fact that psychology has had almost no success altering it, apart from a few cases where the patient wanted to try very, very badly. As a result, it should not be considered a mental illness because it is not a changeable thing, it is a state of being.

Really, what we need is a new term, because paedophilia is clearly different in nature from depression and anxiety.
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Re: Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby gmalivuk » Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:11 pm UTC

sje46 wrote:That's what I said. That's part of the definition. To be a mental disorder, it can't be culturally accepted.

No, that's not what you said. Go back and edit your post, because I'm sure it's what you meant, but it's not what you said.
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Re: Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby TheGrammarBolshevik » Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:13 pm UTC

sje46 wrote:
TheGrammarBolshevik wrote:Yeah, sje, I think you might want to check your definitions. A lot of disorders are far from culturally accepted.

That's what I said. That's part of the definition. To be a mental disorder, it can't be culturally accepted.

I think that you slightly mistyped, and then I slightly misread you. I do see what you mean, but my point about the subjective nature of psychological diagnosis still stands.
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Re: Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby sje46 » Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:17 pm UTC

psyck0 wrote:sje meant can't be culturally accepted, otherwise many forms of religion would be psychosis. (Really, that's what the clause is for.)

Box Boy, every single fetish is in the DSM as a possible disorder, but it only actually is one if it impairs functioning (i.e. if they are unhappy and have a lousy sex life liking feet).

sje, I know the DSM definitions. There is a fourth clause: the illness/behaviour can't be caused by an underlying medical condition. Here, I would argue that it is: I think sexuality is more biological than psychological, as evidenced by the fact that psychology has had almost no success altering it, apart from a few cases where the patient wanted to try very, very badly. As a result, it should not be considered a mental illness because it is not a changeable thing, it is a state of being.

Personality disorders are almost impossible to change too. They are definitely mental disorders. All psychology has its roots in the body, but that's irrelevant, as long as it's cognitive or behavioral. That fourth clause only applies to some disorders, not all. For example, a railroad spike through the head is very medical. A brain tumor is very medical. A stroke is medical. If you hallucinate because you have a brain tumor, that means you don't have schizophrenia, but it's still a mental disorder, I believe.

TheGrammarBolshevik wrote:I think that you slightly mistyped, and then I slightly misread you. I do see what you mean, but my point about the subjective nature of psychological diagnosis still stands.
Of course. Cultural relativism. In some cultures, schizophrenia means you speak with spirits, and you are one of the most important people in your tribe.
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Re: Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby Box Boy » Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:19 pm UTC

So then, are we in agreement that in cases where a pedophile finds it difficult to suppress their urges it becomes a full-blown disorder and when they manage it, similarly to a large fetish, then it's not?
Orr is it one anyway?
*me is tired and confused*
Signatures are for chumps.

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BlackSails
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Re: Father kills son for raping toddler...

Postby BlackSails » Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:27 pm UTC

No, its always a disorder. Its when they cant manage it that it becomes a criminal behavior.


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