The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

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Nordic Einar
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The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby Nordic Einar » Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:37 pm UTC

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34270487/ns ... ?GT1=43001

The Article wrote:HARLESTON, West Virginia - The Gospel of Luke records that, as he was dying on the cross, Jesus showed his boundless mercy by praying for his killers this way: "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do."

Not so fast, say contributors to the Conservative Bible Project.

The project, an online effort to create a Bible suitable for contemporary conservative sensibilities, claims Jesus' quote is a disputed addition abetted by liberal biblical scholars, even if it appears in some form in almost every translation of the Bible.

The project's authors argue that contemporary scholars have inserted liberal views and ahistorical passages into the Bible, turning Jesus into little more than a well-meaning social worker with a store of watered-down platitudes.

"Professors are the most liberal group of people in the world, and it's professors who are doing the popular modern translations of the Bible," said Andy Schlafly, founder of Conservapedia.com, the project's online home.


The Bible has been used to justify heinous acts for as long as it's been in existence, but never before (in my memory) has a group of amateur scholars attempted to "re-translate" the bible so that it more closely fits their current political views. I'm utterly speechless.

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Re: The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby sje46 » Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:44 pm UTC

Anyone have any good examples of changes?
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Re: The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby Indon » Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:48 pm UTC

It should furthermore be noted that this translation is going to utilize the wiki approach to corroboration.

So a bunch of conservatives who, being not 'scholars' who presumably know how to translate things, are going to be corroboratively working in a wiki format to produce a bible explicitly to match their political views.

Oh, American Conservatism. What will you think of next?
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Re: The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby tzvibish » Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:50 pm UTC

I hope that they understand that any alteration of translation is by definition going to erode the reliability of all translations as a whole. I mean, they all believe that they have the "right" translation, right? By these people saying "No, this is how the translation goes", they are just making matters worse.
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Re: The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby Indon » Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:54 pm UTC

tzvibish wrote:I hope that they understand that any alteration of translation is by definition going to erode the reliability of all translations as a whole. I mean, they all believe that they have the "right" translation, right? By these people saying "No, this is how the translation goes", they are just making matters worse.


Actually, the specific theory behind this translation is that all competent translators across the ages have been in what is essentially a liberal conspiracy to mistranslate the bible.

Not shitting you. These people think, essentially, that the competence to translate the bible automatically makes you too liberal to be trusted to translate it.
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Re: The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby Xeio » Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:59 pm UTC

You know, I expected this when I first read about the project, but to actually see it in action is quite mind boggling.

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Re: The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby frezik » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:01 pm UTC

Clearly, MSNBC has been duped by an Onion article. That has to be it. Right? Right?
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Re: The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby Nordic Einar » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:02 pm UTC

Indon wrote:
tzvibish wrote:I hope that they understand that any alteration of translation is by definition going to erode the reliability of all translations as a whole. I mean, they all believe that they have the "right" translation, right? By these people saying "No, this is how the translation goes", they are just making matters worse.


Actually, the specific theory behind this translation is that all competent translators across the ages have been in what is essentially a liberal conspiracy to mistranslate the bible.

Not shitting you. These people think, essentially, that the competence to translate the bible automatically makes you too liberal to be trusted to translate it.


That's what blows my mind the most. I mean, I've had a LaRouche group cultist inform me that I was being brainwashed by my university when they came on campus, but really? Every translator has attempted to subjugate the bible away from the proper Neo-Conservative viewpoints?

Waitwhatthefuck?

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Re: The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby tzvibish » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:08 pm UTC

I don't see what the huge shock is. People have been doing this forever. This is just as bad as changing from "fishing for men" to "fishing for people". It's overturning an established translation to meet your own political and moral agenda.
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Re: The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby Mega D » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:09 pm UTC

The Article wrote:The project's authors argue that contemporary scholars have inserted liberal views and ahistorical passages into the Bible...

So the Bible contains stuff that didn't actually happen? The deuce you say!

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Re: The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby guenther » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:23 pm UTC

frezik wrote:Clearly, MSNBC has been duped by an Onion article. That has to be it. Right? Right?

Check out this picture:
Spoiler:
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I can't help but think this is a satire. If not, it's pretty sad. It's blatant conspiracy theory stuff.
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Re: The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby Dauric » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:26 pm UTC

frezik wrote:Clearly, MSNBC has been duped by an Onion article. That has to be it. Right? Right?

Or perhaps a bunch of conservatives got a "brilliant" idea by reading the Onion....
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Re: The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby Arancaytar » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:30 pm UTC

You know what? For the first time, I'm wishing God actually existed. Because if he did, he'd totally smite those folks.

Not shitting you. These people think, essentially, that the competence to translate the bible automatically makes you too liberal to be trusted to translate it.


Oh, I can believe it. Well, here's an idea: Just prohibit all English- or in fact non-Latin-language versions of the Bible, hold the services in Latin, and rely on the average peasant not having the education to understand it. As for the ones who do have the education, you could always just set those on fire. Make translation punishable by death, (or maybe prosecution under the DMCA). And hey presto, you've made yourself the ultimate authority on God's Word! ???. Profit!

Conservapedia wrote:For example, the conservative word "volunteer" is mentioned only once in the ESV, yet the socialistic word "comrade" is used three times, "laborer(s)" is used 13 times, "labored" 15 times, and "fellow" (as in "fellow worker") is used 55 times.


Don't forget to get rid of that pinko commie "Love thy neighbour" stuff. You know what God meant. He probably said "kill thy neighbour", and Moses, that old liberal, just misheard.
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Re: The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby Dauric » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:34 pm UTC

Arancaytar wrote:You know what? For the first time, I'm wishing God actually existed. Because if he did, he'd totally smite those folks.

Not shitting you. These people think, essentially, that the competence to translate the bible automatically makes you too liberal to be trusted to translate it.


Oh, I can believe it. Well, here's an idea: Just prohibit all English- or in fact non-Latin-language versions of the Bible, hold the services in Latin, and rely on the average peasant not having the education to understand it. As for the ones who do have the education, you could always just set those on fire. Make translation punishable by death, (or maybe prosecution under the DMCA). And hey presto, you've made yourself the ultimate authority on God's Word! ???. Profit!


Really you can't even hold it in Latin, Old testament must only be written in Hebrew and new testament in Aramaic. I mean if translation is really the issue then we've got to remove -all- the translations from the original speech/texts.
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Re: The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby aleflamedyud » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:43 pm UTC

Indon wrote:
tzvibish wrote:I hope that they understand that any alteration of translation is by definition going to erode the reliability of all translations as a whole. I mean, they all believe that they have the "right" translation, right? By these people saying "No, this is how the translation goes", they are just making matters worse.


Actually, the specific theory behind this translation is that all competent translators across the ages have been in what is essentially a liberal conspiracy to mistranslate the bible.

Not shitting you. These people think, essentially, that the competence to translate the bible automatically makes you too liberal to be trusted to translate it.

So it's kind of like the Templar conspiracy to control humanity using Pieces of Eden, but by liberals with the Bible?

Nutters. Wasn't this supposed to be a bad internet joke rather than serious news?
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Re: The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby Dibley » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:48 pm UTC

Dauric wrote:Really you can't even hold it in Latin, Old testament must only be written in Hebrew and new testament in Aramaic. I mean if translation is really the issue then we've got to remove -all- the translations from the original speech/texts.

The new testament was written in Greece and Turkey for a Greek speaking audience, and so even though the main characters would have spoke Aramaic, the originals would have been in Greek. They had almost no luck evangelizing in Israel (mostly because they parts of the Torah that they claimed were prophecies of Jesus were patently not, and it took someone ignorant of the Torah to fall for it.)

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Re: The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby JBJ » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:53 pm UTC

Oh my goodness, has anyone checked out the translations of Revelations yet? Priceless.
Rev 6:6, KJV
And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Rev 6:6, Conservative Trans.
And I heard a voice in the middle of the four living creatures say, "A dry quart of wheat for a shilling, and three dry quarts of barley for a shilling, and do not damage the oil or the grape juice!"
Grape juice? And they're adding punctuation too?
It gets better...
Rev 6:8, KJV
And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.

Rev 6:8, Conservative Trans.
I looked, and saw a pale sour-apple-green horse. The name of its rider was Death, and Hades followed with him.
Sour apple green? This is making me hungry for some taffy.

Rev 10:10, KJV
And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.

Rev 10:10, Conservative Trans.
So I took the little scroll out of the Messenger's hand, and ate it up. It tasted as sweet as honey in my mouth, but as soon as I had eaten it, I had a bellyache.
And then I stubbed my wittle toe.
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Re: The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby DieJay » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:54 pm UTC

By rewriting what they think the Bible is all about, they're just making their own Bible altogether. It's like if Rowling or Tolkien started believing in their own stories. That screams of autism and/or schizophrenia.

But then again, I guess it's alright as long as they don't hurt anybody. :roll:
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Re: The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby Ixtellor » Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:01 pm UTC

Nordic Einar wrote:The Bible has been used to justify heinous acts for as long as it's been in existence, but never before (in my memory) has a group of amateur scholars attempted to "re-translate" the bible so that it more closely fits their current political views. I'm utterly speechless.


1) Jesus, or who ever wrote "jesus said turn the other cheek" and other SUPER awsome examples of how to be a human being was one of the greatest human/philsophers ever.

2) Fairly certain this is not new, especially if you consider 're-translate' as applied to the oral traditions. Dec 25th being Jesus birthday was a political calcualtion. (Geneva Bible? I believe was a political translation er... maybe the King James was as a political reaction to it?)

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Re: The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby apeman5291 » Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:22 pm UTC

Ixtellor wrote:
Nordic Einar wrote:The Bible has been used to justify heinous acts for as long as it's been in existence, but never before (in my memory) has a group of amateur scholars attempted to "re-translate" the bible so that it more closely fits their current political views. I'm utterly speechless.

1) Jesus, or who ever wrote "jesus said turn the other cheek" and other SUPER awsome examples of how to be a human being was one of the greatest human/philsophers ever.

FYI: "has been used to justify" doesn't necessarily mean "unconditionally promotes". Unless I'm completely missing what you're saying here.
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Re: The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby frezik » Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:28 pm UTC

I can't wait until they do some King Solomon:

Proverbs 27:22 wrote:Though you grind a fool in a mortar with a pestle along with grain, yet his foolishness will not be removed from him.


This should be a fun one, too:

Proverbs 5:18, 19 wrote:May your fountain be blessed, and may you rejoice in the wife of your youth. A loving doe, a graceful deer—may her breasts satisfy you always, may you ever be captivated by her love.
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Re: The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby defaultusername » Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:43 pm UTC

Rev 6:8, Conservative Trans.
I looked, and saw a pale sour-apple-green horse. The name of its rider was Death, and Hades followed with him.
Wait, which religion is this again?

Seriously. If you haven't done so already, go read the conservapedia articles on evolution and homosexuality. Or don't, if you don't feel like being angry for the rest of the day.
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Re: The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby Indon » Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:46 pm UTC

Nordic Einar wrote:That's what blows my mind the most. I mean, I've had a LaRouche group cultist inform me that I was being brainwashed by my university when they came on campus, but really? Every translator has attempted to subjugate the bible away from the proper Neo-Conservative viewpoints?

Waitwhatthefuck?


Stuff like this is the end result of the 'anti-elitist' (actually anti-intellectual, but 'elitist' is the word they use) conservative cultural movement which asserts that experts are unfit to do their jobs because they're too good at it so they might scam people.

I wrote a blog post about (read: making fun of) it a few days ago, in fact.

tzvibish wrote:This is just as bad as changing from "fishing for men" to "fishing for people".

Only if the word translated isn't actually the word for 'people'. (PS - I wouldn't take what the people behind that project say for granted)

Sometimes updated translations can be more accurate. But this does not seem to apply to this case.

JBJ wrote:And then I stubbed my wittle toe.


Okay, I can't help but think someone is wikitrolling that bible.
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Re: The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby Quordlepleen » Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:18 pm UTC

Kinda funny how well this relates to another recent news article around here : viewtopic.php?f=9&t=51380
Active proof of how people create god in their own image.

Also I find it both sad and scary that there could actually be a serious translation of the bible that I find more ridiculous than the LOLCat Bible.
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Re: The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby Box Boy » Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:20 pm UTC

Must.Not.Troll.

*Twitch*

Seriously though, I've just done this:
Wait, which religion is this again?
Seriously. If you haven't done so already, go read the conservapedia articles on evolution and homosexuality. Or don't, if you don't feel like being angry for the rest of the day.
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Re: The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby guenther » Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:21 pm UTC

Indon wrote:Stuff like this is the end result of the 'anti-elitist' (actually anti-intellectual, but 'elitist' is the word they use) conservative cultural movement which asserts that experts are unfit to do their jobs because they're too good at it so they might scam people.

I think it's just the end result of any conspiracy theory, including anti-elitist and anti-liberal media. They're just mistaking bias for malicious intent. And they don't realize how hard it is to manipulate so much information in a free society with zero evidence of a conspiracy.

But it's not unique to conservatives, and it even happens against conservatives.

This group is doing the right thing by putting it online. I think such extreme ideas have a hard time propagating when subjected to public scrutiny. They sell better in small private settings.
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Re: The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby Box Boy » Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:23 pm UTC

guenther wrote: They sell better in small private settings.

Which is exactly why you should make it a wiki.
:roll:
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Re: The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby psyck0 » Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:27 pm UTC

I like that "conservative party of canada" ranks above "conservapaedia" in Google's autofill. Makes me feel warm and fuzzy.

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Re: The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby Indon » Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:29 pm UTC

guenther wrote:I think it's just the end result of any conspiracy theory, including anti-elitist and anti-liberal media. They're just mistaking bias for malicious intent. And they don't realize how hard it is to manipulate so much information in a free society with zero evidence of a conspiracy.

While I get what you're talking about, I don't think that's what's happening here.

Rather, what's happening here is that they're mistaking an ability for bias.

If you're a professional translator and biblical scholar, this project don't want you. Not because your bias implies malicious intent, but because your competence implies bias.

Box Boy wrote:
guenther wrote: They sell better in small private settings.

Which is exactly why you should make it a wiki.
:roll:


Yes, he's implying that online the concept will get precisely as much respect as it deserves, no matter how little that may be, and thus it being online is good.
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Re: The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby aleflamedyud » Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:32 pm UTC

DieJay wrote:By rewriting what they think the Bible is all about, they're just making their own Bible altogether. It's like if Rowling or Tolkien started believing in their own stories. That screams of autism and/or schizophrenia.

But then again, I guess it's alright as long as they don't hurt anybody. :roll:

These are American neo-conservatives we're talking about. What makes you think they won't hurt anybody?

Seriously, if anyone wants to go on liberal jihad to wipe this movement out, I'm game. This is a defilement of the Holy Torah and the New Testament to pervert it into the service of twisted, evil ideals.

If you're a professional translator and biblical scholar, this project don't want you. Not because your bias implies malicious intent, but because your competence implies bias.

In other words, they're using the anti-competence, anti-intellectual idea that nobody capable of doing a job should be allowed to do it to justify the notion that nobody outside of their movement has any religious authority. They're building an incestuous cult and masking it in populism.
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Re: The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby Indon » Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:35 pm UTC

aleflamedyud wrote:In other words, they're using the anti-competence, anti-intellectual idea that nobody capable of doing a job should be allowed to do it to justify the notion that nobody outside of their movement has any religious authority. They're building an incestuous cult and masking it in populism.


Yes, it is vaguely cult-flavored, but so's Conservapedia as a whole.
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Re: The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby Box Boy » Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:39 pm UTC

aleflamedyud wrote:These are American neo-conservatives we're talking about. What makes you think they won't hurt anybody?
Benefit of the doubt? the fact that all they're doing is making a wiki and about half of it is probably trolling?
aleflamedyud wrote:Seriously, if anyone wants to go on liberal jihad to wipe this movement out, I'm game. This is a defilement of the Holy Torah and the New Testament to pervert it into the service of twisted, evil ideals.
Yet, you'd most likely complain like a motherfucker if conservatives attacked a liberal wiki in a conservative-jihad.
Also, they're entitled to their own interpretation of the "Holy Torah and New Testament" and if you have a problem with then get rid of your own first.

aleflamedyud wrote:In other words, they're using the anti-competence, anti-intellectual idea that nobody capable of doing a job should be allowed to do it to justify the notion that nobody outside of their movement has any religious authority. They're building an incestuous cult and masking it in populism.
1)I've bolded the section I agree with the most, and have few problems with.
2) Where the shit is incest mentioned?
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Re: The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby LongLiveTheDutch » Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:42 pm UTC

Well frick. This is probably the worst idea ever. Also, their 10 points of awesome is horrendous.

5. Combat Harmful Addiction: combating addiction[5] by using modern terms for it, such as "gamble" rather than "cast lots";[6] using modern political terms, such as "register" rather than "enroll" for the census


Casting lots was used as a means of determining God's will (Acts 1:23-26). It was also used as a method of gambling, but removing it completely?

3. Not Dumbed Down: not dumbing down the reading level, or diluting the intellectual force and logic of Christianity; the NIV is written at only the 7th grade level[3]


Some of the above posted quotes are, IMO, sub-7th grade level.

As a Christian, this makes me feel horrid. Sorry for the stupid stereotypes promoted by some of us, fellow xkcders.

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Re: The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby psyck0 » Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:44 pm UTC

Incestuous, as in feeding each other's egos and agreeing with each other all the time in a manner which will simply make their views more extreme.

Name me a liberal wiki, please. I'd like to read it.

They are entitled to any interpretation they like, but I'll bash them over the head if they claim it's based on any semblance of reality.

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Re: The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby Box Boy » Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:48 pm UTC

LongLiveTheDutch wrote:As a Christian, this makes me feel horrid. Sorry for the stupid stereotypes promoted by some of us, fellow xkcders.

I'm Irish from a Catholic background, I know how you feel.

psyck0 wrote:Incestuous, as in feeding each other's egos and agreeing with each other all the time in a manner which will simply make their views more extreme.

According to here, you're close, but no cigar.

psyck0 wrote:Name me a liberal wiki, please. I'd like to read it.

Well, to avoid flaming I won't mention a certain theme of bias in wikipedia, so I'll reprase myself;
Yet, you'd most likely complain like a motherfucker if conservatives attacked a liberal website/forum/wiki/ in a conservative-jihad.

psyck0 wrote:They are entitled to any interpretation they like, but I'll bash them over the head if they claim it's based on any semblance of reality.
Did I say you had to like it?
Signatures are for chumps.

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Re: The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby MoghLiechty2 » Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:02 am UTC

There have already been several, scholarly, successful attempts at retranslating the Bible into English with the goal of better preserving original intent, and they were done by Christian scholars not hundreds of clearly biased guys with internet access.

Their page complaining about the NIV is like complaining about CRT TVs. See: the English Standard Version and the New American Standard Bible.

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Re: The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby Triangle_Man » Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:06 am UTC

You know, I've flipped through the Bible a couple of times and I seem to recall reading something akin to 'Anybody who removes or adds to this holy scripture will be met with a punishment from God'. I don't know the exact passage, but the message is clear; you aren't allowed to alter the bible.

So basically, the conservatives are violating the very rules they abide by.

Wow...
I really should be working right now, but somehow I don't have the energy.

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Re: The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby Goldstein » Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:12 am UTC

It's an hour later than it was when I looked at the clock a minute ago. A man could easily lose his mind on Conservapedia.
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Re: The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby Box Boy » Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:12 am UTC

Whatever you do, do NOT look up George W. Bush.
Signatures are for chumps.

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Re: The New Conservative Jesus: He's kind of a dick now.

Postby EmptySet » Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:29 am UTC

Mmm, I heard of this some time ago, and it is completely ridiculous. Also I would like to point out that it is not really a 'translation', as many people are calling it. Initially it was planned to be a translation, but then it was discovered that this might involve learning filthy foreign languages *shudder* and talking to people who have gone those dens of sin and debauchery known as universities. Also, it is a lot of work. So they've now mostly settled for taking the KJV and editing all the bits they don't like.

Aside from the fact that they're basically taking scissors and paste to the Bible in a pathetic attempt to justify their own beliefs, the way they're doing it is hysterical. If you look at the retranslation project page on Conservapedia, you'll note that one of the reasons given for changing "grace" to "boundless generosity" is that Grace is a girl's name (the other being that grace is "a sports term" used to describe grace of movement rather than "spiritual and majestic gift-giving"). Presumably faith, hope, and charity will all have to be changed for the same reason. And of course there's the whole "wine" -> "grape juice" thing.

Triangle_Man wrote:You know, I've flipped through the Bible a couple of times and I seem to recall reading something akin to 'Anybody who removes or adds to this holy scripture will be met with a punishment from God'. I don't know the exact passage, but the message is clear; you aren't allowed to alter the bible.

So basically, the conservatives are violating the very rules they abide by.


"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:"
– Revelation 22:18

Of course, we can always just edit that line out in the Conservapedia version.


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