Teachers stage fake gun attack on kids

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BassDude
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Teachers stage fake gun attack on kids

Postby BassDude » Mon May 14, 2007 10:14 pm UTC

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/200 ... htm?csp=34

MURFREESBORO, Tenn. (AP) — Staff members of an elementary school staged a fictitious gun attack on students during a class trip, telling them it was not a drill as the children cried and hid under tables.

The mock attack Thursday night was intended as a learning experience and lasted five minutes during the week-long trip to a state park, said Scales Elementary School Assistant Principal Don Bartch, who led the trip.

"We got together and discussed what we would have done in a real situation," he said.

But parents of the sixth-grade students were outraged.

"The children were in that room in the dark, begging for their lives, because they thought there was someone with a gun after them," said Brandy Cole, whose son went on the trip.

Some parents said they were upset by the staff's poor judgment in light of the April 16 shootings at Virginia Tech that left 33 students and professors dead, including the gunman.

During the last night of the trip, staff members convinced the 69 students that there was a gunman on the loose. They were told to lie on the floor or hide underneath tables and stay quiet. A teacher, disguised in a hooded sweat shirt, even pulled on locked door.

After the lights went out, about 20 kids started to cry, 11-year-old Shay Naylor said.

"I was like, 'Oh My God,' " she said. "At first I thought I was going to die. We flipped out."

Principal Catherine Stephens declined to say whether the staff members involved would face disciplinary action, but said the situation "involved poor judgment."


Ha. Poor judgement indeed.

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Postby Phenriz » Mon May 14, 2007 10:16 pm UTC

please, people need thicker skin.

human beings have officially become farmyard cows.
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Postby bbctol » Mon May 14, 2007 10:17 pm UTC

Yay for joining teh forum at last (yeah I know this guy). Post in the damn introductions thread, now! :D

No, okay, seriousness. As I've already said in response to this article:
bbctol (5:48:39 PM): I'd go into the principals office
bbctol (5:48:53 PM): and say "now there's a REAL gun attack!"
bbctol (5:49:00 PM): and shoot him for being such a sicko
I mean, what kind of sick and twisted person stages a gun attack on eleven-year-olds?

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Postby BassDude » Mon May 14, 2007 10:21 pm UTC

bbctol wrote:Yay for joining teh forum at last (yeah I know this guy). Post in the damn introductions thread, now! :D

No, okay, seriousness. As I've already said in response to this article:
bbctol (5:48:39 PM): I'd go into the principals office
bbctol (5:48:53 PM): and say "now there's a REAL gun attack!"
bbctol (5:49:00 PM): and shoot him for being such a sicko
I mean, what kind of sick and twisted person stages a gun attack on eleven-year-olds?


I actually joined in August 2006 but neglected this account.

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Postby bbctol » Mon May 14, 2007 10:22 pm UTC

Well damn. Post more, lackey!

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Postby rachel » Mon May 14, 2007 10:27 pm UTC

Honestly, people do need to harden the fuck up. This shit happens so often that maybe we ought to start doing stuff like that to kids regularly to keep them on their toes. If you bitch out and start crying in a situation like that, you're probably more likely to get killed. So prepare those little assholes, because people get shot all the time.
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Postby Phenriz » Mon May 14, 2007 10:32 pm UTC

rachel wrote:Honestly, people do need to harden the fuck up. This shit happens so often that maybe we ought to start doing stuff like that to kids regularly to keep them on their toes. If you bitch out and start crying in a situation like that, you're probably more likely to get killed. So prepare those little assholes, because people get shot all the time.


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Re: Teachers stage fake gun attack on kids

Postby UmbrageOfSnow » Mon May 14, 2007 10:34 pm UTC

BassDude wrote:http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-05-13-fake-gun-attack_N.htm?csp=34

Ha. Poor judgement indeed.


And this could have ended even worse for the staff. I was just imagining if this had happened in my high school or something. I know that if I was actually convinced someone was going to kill me, I'd do my best to disable or kill them first. I remember in High School, one of my friends and I knew where the key to the chemistry supply closet was, and it was our standing plan that if anyone shot up our school, we'd try our best to nail them in the face with con'c HCL and other fun stuff, on the assumption that it was better to go down fighting and maybe save a few people.

I mean, what if that teacher that dressed up had been blinded or otherwise permanently injured by one of the kids. Not only is this in bad taste, but by making people think they are in a life-or-death situation when the aren't, you could end up with serious damage. People do crazy things if they think they are going to die. My advice, don't try this with older kids or you might get hurt, don't try this with younger kids or you might scar them for life.

And if you start running drills, you run the risk of students not believing it is real when an actual gunman is on the loose.
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Postby Woxor » Mon May 14, 2007 10:39 pm UTC

I would support this for, say, military recruits of some kind. For 11-year-old kids? That's pretty ridiculous, and I'd be pissed if I were their parent. The kids might be fine, or they might have post-traumatic shock.

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Postby rachel » Mon May 14, 2007 11:11 pm UTC

Woxor wrote:I would support this for, say, military recruits of some kind. For 11-year-old kids? That's pretty ridiculous, and I'd be pissed if I were their parent. The kids might be fine, or they might have post-traumatic shock.



As long as you let people know that there is a possibility that there may be a drill or something, then I don't see why it wouldn't be fine. The only problem I see with what those teachers did was the fact that they didn't let the parents know what they were going to be doing. It is like a fire drill or a tornado drill. Yeah, chances are that this situation won't ever really happen, but why not at least be prepared in case it does?
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Postby bbctol » Mon May 14, 2007 11:26 pm UTC

I'd say with no warning, and no mention of it not being a drill to parents or anyone, that's pretty sick. And I can't shake the image of the guy shaking on the classroom doors laughing his ass off.

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Postby Lani » Tue May 15, 2007 12:05 am UTC

This is completely inappropriate. If they had spent the last year training the children how to react in such a situation, I could maybe see this being ok. But they had given them no training. Without that, this is completely ineffectual - not to mention assholish.
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Postby The LuigiManiac » Tue May 15, 2007 12:16 am UTC

I am shocked and appalled. Think about how much therapy some of those kids will need. For instance, if this was my brother, he would be absolutely and irrevocably scarred for life. To give you perspective, he gets scared while watching "Finding Nemo".
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Postby Peshmerga » Tue May 15, 2007 12:20 am UTC

Hey they were 11. That's a pretty good age to be sobered up!!
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Postby DonChubby » Tue May 15, 2007 12:29 am UTC

I haven't read the whole thread, as I'm tired as hell, so if this has already been said, feel free to ignore it.

rachel wrote:Honestly, people do need to harden the fuck up. This shit happens so often that maybe we ought to start doing stuff like that to kids regularly to keep them on their toes. If you bitch out and start crying in a situation like that, you're probably more likely to get killed. So prepare those little assholes, because people get shot all the time.


But wouldn't that cause a boy who cried wolf like situation?
If kids constantly were made to believe that they were "under attack", they would just neglect it, in the end.

Also, i would imagine that someone would go through some serious psychological trauma because of this, especially eleven year olds.
Anyhoo, bad decision. :?
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Postby RealGrouchy » Tue May 15, 2007 3:29 am UTC

It wasn't a drill, it was a prank, as referenced in this slashdot post, which links to this press release from the School.

49 of 65 parents came to a meeting about the incident, and only four were bothered by the incident.

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Postby EradicateIV » Tue May 15, 2007 3:36 am UTC

Some work environments are not made for jokes, especially the kind that involve a good handle of dark humor.
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Postby 3.14159265... » Tue May 15, 2007 4:23 am UTC

They are such stupid idiots and hadn't considered all possible situations: the parents of course

They should have sent their kids to school with guns to be ready for such an event.

All the power to the teachers for once again proving, why kids need guns in schools.
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Postby Gelsamel » Tue May 15, 2007 5:16 am UTC

What?
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Postby Phenriz » Tue May 15, 2007 3:14 pm UTC

The LuigiManiac wrote:I am shocked and appalled. Think about how much therapy some of those kids will need. For instance, if this was my brother, he would be absolutely and irrevocably scarred for life. To give you perspective, he gets scared while watching "Finding Nemo".


how old is your little brother?
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Postby DonChubby » Tue May 15, 2007 4:32 pm UTC

Phenriz wrote:
The LuigiManiac wrote:I am shocked and appalled. Think about how much therapy some of those kids will need. For instance, if this was my brother, he would be absolutely and irrevocably scarred for life. To give you perspective, he gets scared while watching "Finding Nemo".


how old is your little brother?


No seriously, that was an extremely scary movie.
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Postby 3.14159265... » Tue May 15, 2007 5:05 pm UTC

A jk gelsmal.

Also, I screamed during finding nemo, the part where he got stuck in that tube thing, and it started sucking.. I went.. EEEEEEEEEEE...
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Postby fjafjan » Tue May 15, 2007 5:09 pm UTC

lani wrote:This is completely inappropriate. If they had spent the last year training the children how to react in such a situation, I could maybe see this being ok. But they had given them no training. Without that, this is completely ineffectual - not to mention assholish.

I agree
rachel wrote:Honestly, people do need to harden the fuck up. This shit happens so often that maybe we ought to start doing stuff like that to kids regularly to keep them on their toes. If you bitch out and start crying in a situation like that, you're probably more likely to get killed. So prepare those little assholes, because people get shot all the time.

Okey, first of all, how often DOES it happen?
Less than once every three years. If kids are constantly givven the idea I think it's probably going to happen more
And what exactly are they supposed to do? you can't prepare for school shootings, the shooters have both Columbine and Virginia tech planned for fairly long periods of time.
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Postby Yakk » Tue May 15, 2007 6:28 pm UTC

Is there any evidence that "this is not a drill" style lies work better at training someone than telling the targets that it is a drill?

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Postby The LuigiManiac » Tue May 15, 2007 6:33 pm UTC

DonChubby wrote:
Phenriz wrote:
The LuigiManiac wrote:I am shocked and appalled. Think about how much therapy some of those kids will need. For instance, if this was my brother, he would be absolutely and irrevocably scarred for life. To give you perspective, he gets scared while watching "Finding Nemo".


how old is your little brother?


No seriously, that was an extremely scary movie.


10. He mostly gets scared during the jellyfish section.
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Postby Lani » Tue May 15, 2007 6:38 pm UTC

I missed the press release; it's not up there anymore (from what I can tell). What did it say?
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Postby Woxor » Tue May 15, 2007 6:50 pm UTC

rachel wrote:As long as you let people know that there is a possibility that there may be a drill or something, then I don't see why it wouldn't be fine. The only problem I see with what those teachers did was the fact that they didn't let the parents know what they were going to be doing. It is like a fire drill or a tornado drill. Yeah, chances are that this situation won't ever really happen, but why not at least be prepared in case it does?

I have never had a tornado drill where the teachers told us, "There is a tornado coming straight for the school. You hear that rattling? That means you're about to die." Actually convincing the children that they were in mortal danger is the opposite of what a drill is for; it's meant to make sure they don't panic when there is danger.

EDIT: If it was a prank and not a drill, that actually kind of makes me think it wasn't as big of a deal. Not because it's less asshole-ish, but because I'm guessing they weren't as thorough in trying to recreate the scary scenario. Hell, I had a teacher that told us with a dead-pan face to calmly evacuate the building when the power went out (shortly after Columbine) after she had gone to the principal's office to check things out. Bad taste, maybe, but it was hilarious (she told us it was a joke immediately). No one was scarred, to my knowledge. A prank has less tendency to be carried out for as long, or as convincingly, as a drill would be.

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Postby rachel » Tue May 15, 2007 7:15 pm UTC

I still hold that this happens often enough that students do need to be prepared for it. Whether or not that is done with a drill or an assembly or something else, they do need to be prepared. Yes, the prank was in bad form and probably scared the hell out of a lot of eleven year old children, but that doesn't change the fact that there is a serious enough problem with school shootings that people (teachers, parents, administration) should make an effort to try to prepare children for what to do in this situation and how not to panic. No, you'll never be able to completely prepare them for it, but you can help them as much as you can. And if it is done correctly, I very seriously doubt that these children are going to be scarred for life.
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Postby LE4dGOLEM » Tue May 15, 2007 8:34 pm UTC

So, from this we can learn that

a) Teachers should be given some means of protection for the children in their class, in case such an event is to occur

b) Teachers cannot be trusted with such weapons.
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Postby EradicateIV » Wed May 16, 2007 1:39 am UTC

LE4dGOLEM wrote:So, from this we can learn that

a) Teachers should be given some means of protection for the children in their class, in case such an event is to occur

b) Teachers cannot be trusted with such weapons.


Ooooo, Paradox! How do we resolve this issue, we hire cops for schools to protect the kids. Problem with this solution? It's plain DUMB.
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Postby Owijad » Wed May 16, 2007 3:02 am UTC

rachel wrote:I still hold that this happens often enough that students do need to be prepared for it. Whether or not that is done with a drill or an assembly or something else, they do need to be prepared. Yes, the prank was in bad form and probably scared the hell out of a lot of eleven year old children, but that doesn't change the fact that there is a serious enough problem with school shootings that people (teachers, parents, administration) should make an effort to try to prepare children for what to do in this situation and how not to panic. No, you'll never be able to completely prepare them for it, but you can help them as much as you can. And if it is done correctly, I very seriously doubt that these children are going to be scarred for life.


Uhm. Okay, so you're walking home at night and a big guy with a knife corners you and strips you. Then he says "If I were a real rapist, this is much what the experience would be like."

I mean, hell, you need to be prepared.
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Postby Patashu » Wed May 16, 2007 6:21 am UTC

What I don't like is the hypocrisy it implies.

Dodgeball's been banned but staged gun attacks are A-OK?


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