NYC MTA Considers Dropping Student MetroCards

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NYC MTA Considers Dropping Student MetroCards

Postby scikidus » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:41 am UTC

...and the students are pissed.

First the article.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2009/12/13/2009-12-13_a_swipe_at_the_kids_parents_rip_plan_to_ax_student_passes.html
Spoiler:
Cash-strapped parents spoke in unified protest Saturday, blasting an MTA proposal that could yank free MetroCards from the hands of students.

"Please, please, please don't take this away," begged cleaning lady Barbara Harris, 43, whose 11-year-old son, John, is one of about 550,000 schoolkids who currently gets a free or discounted bus and subway pass.

"I am speaking for part-time working parents and we need this," Harris said. "A lot of us aren't making much money. It will mean some kids just not going to school."

The Daily News Saturday revealed exclusively that the MTA is toying with the idea of eliminating free MetroCards for hundreds of thousands of students.

Under the plan, students would have to fork over half-price fares beginning next year, and full fares starting in 2011, sources said.

"It's really unfair, half of those kids are from low-income families," said mom Lorraine Ayales, 47, from Kew Gardens, Queens. "The economy is really bad, rents are high and people are strapped for cash."

The state and the city used to cover the entire cost of the student MetroCard program, but slashed their combined funding to $90million a year in the mid-1990s.

The beleaguered MTA has been left to make up the shortfall ever since, and pays at least $70 million out of pocket to keep the program going. But with the agency's budget gap predicted to balloon to about $500 million, officials have been forced to find other ways to make up the difference.

"It's stupid," said Brittney Rojas, 13, as she walked down Bushwick Ave., in Brooklyn, with her three sisters. "If you live far away it means you can't afford to go to school."

"Some kids just won't go to school," her sister Chelsea, 12, chimed in. "Or some might have to walk outside in the winter and get sick."

The elimination of the freebies is just one of many budget-saving measures being discussed by MTA officials, including proposals to eliminate 21 local bus routes with low ridership.

"It would be a catastrophe," said Nateria Cannon, 17, an 11th-grader at Manhattan Village Academy who lives in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. "I think it's crazy. Parents are losing their jobs and the fare went up. They would have to work overtime."

Eligibility for a free or discounted MetroCard is determined by a student's age and how far he or she lives from school - not income.

Mayor Bloomberg's education reforms, which include eliminating neighborhood high schools in many parts of the city, mean the proposal will likely hit high school students hardest.

"If you're going to eliminate neighborhood high schools as the mayor has in most of the city, it's absolutely critical to have free transportation for kids, especially because children are required by law to go to school," said Clara Hemphill, author of a New School report on the city's new system of smaller high schools.

"Some kids are traveling up to 90 minutes by public transportation," Hemphill said. "There's absolutely no way to get there without the subway and bus."

Politicians were disturbed by the news Saturday.

"We've sunk to a new low," Manhattan Borough President Scott Stringer said.

"The MTA faces critically important budget challenges. But we cannot look for fixes by hurting the most vulnerable."

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/200 ... z0Zcvmf1Uh


Now here's the Facebook group created in protest:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=239685206109

The group is growing, and fast. 99% of the posts are people wondering how they're going to get to school and where they're going to find an additional $4.50 per day.
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Re: NYC MTA Considers Dropping Student MetroCards

Postby Lumpy » Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:11 am UTC

Now, to be fair, killing children's futures won't damage the economy until they grow up.

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Re: NYC MTA Considers Dropping Student MetroCards

Postby Anubis » Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:13 am UTC

Am I correct in assuming that this (the free MetroCard system) was previously meant as a substitute for the school bus system that most districts use?

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Re: NYC MTA Considers Dropping Student MetroCards

Postby yoni45 » Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:14 am UTC

Er... these guys get free transportation?

...to think, we've been paying for ours (albeit at reduced student rates) this whole time, and we've been doing quite alright...

Granted, I'm sure there are other differences in the relative situations as well, but it hardly seems like the end of the world ("Kids just won't go to school") as is being claimed... They probably *should* keep reduced student rates though...
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Re: NYC MTA Considers Dropping Student MetroCards

Postby psyck0 » Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:48 am UTC

A lot of the kids with these can't afford passes, as was stated in the article. Typical self-centric rich WASP remark "Oh I managed it surely these other people in totally different situations can too".

I can't blame the transit system for cutting this- I'm amazed they continued to run it for over a decade after the people who SHOULD be funding it (the city and state) backed out.

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Re: NYC MTA Considers Dropping Student MetroCards

Postby kiklion » Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:55 am UTC

I know she's twelve but,
"Some kids just won't go to school," her sister Chelsea, 12, chimed in. "Or some might have to walk outside in the winter and get sick."


Being in the cold doesn't increase your chances of getting sick.

Also there is no mention as to the distance kids will be walking to get to school. Going to sound like an old fart here (Gah just graduated college, only 21) but when I was in M.S I walked just under 2 miles to get to school every day by myself. Depending on the season (if I had sports or not) I walked home alone as well. Sometimes a class mates parent would see me, recognize me, and offer me a ride; but if it wasn't spring I was walking home alone. Spring time I walked to practice at the H.S with other track kids.

Come to think of it I even walked to Elementary school which is a mile and a half. Now if these kids are talking about needing to walk for two hours to get to school I could see an issue trying to wake kids up at 4:30, so they leave by 5:30 to get there by 7:30, but anything less then an hour shouldn't be considered outrageous.

Now on the other hand, I question how much money is being saved if the routes are still going on. The bus drivers work shifts, not just routes? IE running the route faster does not save them labor costs by paying the drivers less hourly correct? In that case how much extra money is used to shuttle the weight of the school kids, assuming the bus's aren't filled to capacity. There is a lot of information missing before people can really attempt to determine if this change would be justified.

Another thing that just struck my mind is my disdain for people claiming a loss of money for unsold sales. IE, Every illegal download of a song is $10 (price of CD, w/e that is) that the company doesn't get, when the person wasn't going to spend it in the first place. If they say the cost of shuttling the kids around is in the millions due to what the cost of the rides WOULD be if they paid, then they are factoring in a profit margin that is un-needed. Another example is in the restaurant business, I work as a cook and I know that if a table runs out on their check the waiter needs to pay for it. I KINDA understand that, but I don't agree with still charging the waiter the $25 for the meal when the true food costs lost was around $5.

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Re: NYC MTA Considers Dropping Student MetroCards

Postby yoni45 » Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:12 am UTC

psyck0 wrote:A lot of the kids with these can't afford passes, as was stated in the article. Typical self-centric rich WASP remark...


Tee hee. I wish. And it's not as if I'm the only one in the city of Toronto (or in Canada) who happens to have lacked access to free transit. I'm quite sure we also have 'poor' people, yet it doesn't seem like we have a plethora of kids not going to school because they can't afford transit.

As noted, I'm sure there are *some* factors that differ, but I doubt they're substantial enough to make it somehow completely viable to have paid transit for students in Toronto, but impossible in NYC. It would help, yes, but it's hardly make-or-break.
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Re: NYC MTA Considers Dropping Student MetroCards

Postby poxic » Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:23 am UTC

Thing is, people tend to expand their spending to what they're earning. If there's been no outlay for getting their kids to school, then that money is being used for something else. Food, toilet paper, rent, beer, whatever. Now that money has to move to the "get the kids to school" category. Now there will have to be less food, toilet paper, rent, beer, or whatever. That will provoke something of a crisis.

It's not up to me to decide whose crisis is serious and whose is trivial. When you're living at the limit of your income, any retraction is trouble. It bites hard into our feelings of security, of safety and personal effectiveness. What would happen if you suddenly had to find an extra $95 a month, per kid? That's around $850 a year, per kid, assuming three months off over summer and winter holidays.

If this goes through, families will adapt, sure. Eventually the household expenses will shift to accommodate this, in most cases.
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Re: NYC MTA Considers Dropping Student MetroCards

Postby Jahoclave » Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:15 am UTC

Oh look, I get to use this song again.

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Re: NYC MTA Considers Dropping Student MetroCards

Postby scikidus » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:56 pm UTC

kiklion wrote:Also there is no mention as to the distance kids will be walking to get to school. Going to sound like an old fart here (Gah just graduated college, only 21) but when I was in M.S I walked just under 2 miles to get to school every day by myself. Depending on the season (if I had sports or not) I walked home alone as well. Sometimes a class mates parent would see me, recognize me, and offer me a ride; but if it wasn't spring I was walking home alone. Spring time I walked to practice at the H.S with other track kids.

One does not simply walk two miles in Brooklyn or Queens. Unless you're particularly fond of stab wounds.
poxic wrote:If this goes through, families will adapt, sure. Eventually the household expenses will shift to accommodate this, in most cases.

Except the solution is going to most likely be that kids will spend lunch money on transit. Or just not come to school at all, as a lot of kids on the Facebook group are declaring.
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Re: NYC MTA Considers Dropping Student MetroCards

Postby Indon » Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:19 pm UTC

Good on the Daily Show, showing itself once again to have some of the best news coverage on television.

kiklion wrote:Being in the cold doesn't increase your chances of getting sick.

Being in the cold (or any strongly inclement weather, such as strong rain) is likely to weaken your immune system temporarily, as is anything which significantly strains the body.

So while no, it won't increase your chances of getting sick in and of itself, having your immune system weakened when you go to a crowded, public place such as a school most definitely is going to increase your chances of catching something.

kiklion wrote:Also there is no mention as to the distance kids will be walking to get to school. Going to sound like an old fart here (Gah just graduated college, only 21) but when I was in M.S I walked just under 2 miles to get to school every day by myself. Depending on the season (if I had sports or not) I walked home alone as well. Sometimes a class mates parent would see me, recognize me, and offer me a ride; but if it wasn't spring I was walking home alone. Spring time I walked to practice at the H.S with other track kids.

I, too, walked to school. I imagine that, like me, you lived in a suburban area with fairly strong property values and little poverty, and thus it was fairly safe for children to walk long distances on a daily basis.

That doesn't apply everywhere, and I really doubt it applies in New York City.

yoni45 wrote:Granted, I'm sure there are other differences in the relative situations as well, but it hardly seems like the end of the world ("Kids just won't go to school") as is being claimed... They probably *should* keep reduced student rates though...


I imagine it could well be worse than kids not going to school.

The measure could potentially put tens of thousands of children on the streets of NYC on a regular basis, potentially for miles of travel, particularly poor children from areas with high crime rates. As scikidus notes: stab wounds.

For some of those kids, staying home might be preferable.
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Re: NYC MTA Considers Dropping Student MetroCards

Postby aleflamedyud » Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:43 pm UTC

Some neighborhoods in NYC are really so horrible that petty criminals would really stab children on their way to school? Wow.
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Re: NYC MTA Considers Dropping Student MetroCards

Postby Indon » Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:45 pm UTC

aleflamedyud wrote:Some neighborhoods in NYC are really so horrible that petty criminals would really stab children on their way to school? Wow.


Well, 'stab wounds' is admittedly a gross oversimplification.

More practical threats involve gang indoctrination, drugs, and kidnapping.
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Re: NYC MTA Considers Dropping Student MetroCards

Postby aleflamedyud » Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:50 pm UTC

Indon wrote:
aleflamedyud wrote:Some neighborhoods in NYC are really so horrible that petty criminals would really stab children on their way to school? Wow.


Well, 'stab wounds' is admittedly a gross oversimplification.

More practical threats involve gang indoctrination, drugs, and kidnapping.

That sounds much more realistic and well worth providing kids a safe way to get to school.
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Re: NYC MTA Considers Dropping Student MetroCards

Postby Endless Mike » Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:09 pm UTC

kiklion wrote:Now on the other hand, I question how much money is being saved if the routes are still going on. The bus drivers work shifts, not just routes? IE running the route faster does not save them labor costs by paying the drivers less hourly correct? In that case how much extra money is used to shuttle the weight of the school kids, assuming the bus's aren't filled to capacity. There is a lot of information missing before people can really attempt to determine if this change would be justified.

I'd have to dig it up, but WMATA here in DC noted a significant increase in electricity costs when people started using the Metro more last year when fuel costs increased, despite the fact that they were running the same number of trains. So, yeah, increased weight of passengers does increase cost. I would also think that in a city where public transportation is the main mode of transportation for school kids that they'd run extra routes during school start and end (as well as typical work hours), but I don't know that for sure.

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Re: NYC MTA Considers Dropping Student MetroCards

Postby Indon » Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:14 pm UTC

Endless Mike wrote:I'd have to dig it up, but WMATA here in DC noted a significant increase in electricity costs when people started using the Metro more last year when fuel costs increased, despite the fact that they were running the same number of trains. So, yeah, increased weight of passengers does increase cost.


Kids, luckily, tend not to weigh as much as adults, so at the very least they should be able to get much cheaper transportation.
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Re: NYC MTA Considers Dropping Student MetroCards

Postby Lycur » Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:35 pm UTC

yoni45 wrote:
psyck0 wrote:A lot of the kids with these can't afford passes, as was stated in the article. Typical self-centric rich WASP remark...


Tee hee. I wish. And it's not as if I'm the only one in the city of Toronto (or in Canada) who happens to have lacked access to free transit. I'm quite sure we also have 'poor' people, yet it doesn't seem like we have a plethora of kids not going to school because they can't afford transit.

As noted, I'm sure there are *some* factors that differ, but I doubt they're substantial enough to make it somehow completely viable to have paid transit for students in Toronto, but impossible in NYC. It would help, yes, but it's hardly make-or-break.


Toronto doesn't have some kind of transportation for school systems? I find that kind of hard to believe, the rest of Ontario certainly does.

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Re: NYC MTA Considers Dropping Student MetroCards

Postby The Reaper » Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:51 pm UTC

scikidus wrote:
kiklion wrote:Also there is no mention as to the distance kids will be walking to get to school. Going to sound like an old fart here (Gah just graduated college, only 21) but when I was in M.S I walked just under 2 miles to get to school every day by myself. Depending on the season (if I had sports or not) I walked home alone as well. Sometimes a class mates parent would see me, recognize me, and offer me a ride; but if it wasn't spring I was walking home alone. Spring time I walked to practice at the H.S with other track kids.
One does not simply walk two miles in Brooklyn or Queens. Unless you're particularly fond of stab wounds.

Maybe they should clean up brooklyn and queens, rather than just fixing the symptoms of people getting stabbed while walking to school by giving people bus rides. :\

I grew up in the barrio and I walked bout 2.5 or 3 miles to school. So did a bunch of other people. I've still yet to be stabbed without doing something to deserve it.

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Re: NYC MTA Considers Dropping Student MetroCards

Postby Indon » Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:58 pm UTC

The Reaper wrote:Maybe they should clean up brooklyn and queens, rather than just fixing the symptoms of people getting stabbed while walking to school by giving people bus rides. :\

I daresay that would involve spending much more money than the city of New York is willing to spend at this point in time, considering they seem to be contemplating giving up on even the symptoms.

The Reaper wrote:I grew up in the barrio and I walked bout 2.5 or 3 miles to school. So did a bunch of other people. I've still yet to be stabbed without doing something to deserve it.

I'm sure that somewhere, a man in a nondescript white van offered some kid some candy, the kid accepted, and the man gave the kid a piece of candy and left, never to see the child again.

Okay, okay, that's a bad comparison, since that's a relatively minor threat compared to gangs and drugs, which clearly are problems among the youth in such areas.

If a kid gets pulled into a gang, does the kid 'deserve' it? How about if the kid's talked into using drugs? Care to blame the kid? Or heck, blame the parents. Because why fix the problem when you can blame the victims of the problem instead, right?
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Re: NYC MTA Considers Dropping Student MetroCards

Postby Jahoclave » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:02 pm UTC

The Reaper wrote:
scikidus wrote:
kiklion wrote:Also there is no mention as to the distance kids will be walking to get to school. Going to sound like an old fart here (Gah just graduated college, only 21) but when I was in M.S I walked just under 2 miles to get to school every day by myself. Depending on the season (if I had sports or not) I walked home alone as well. Sometimes a class mates parent would see me, recognize me, and offer me a ride; but if it wasn't spring I was walking home alone. Spring time I walked to practice at the H.S with other track kids.
One does not simply walk two miles in Brooklyn or Queens. Unless you're particularly fond of stab wounds.

Maybe they should clean up brooklyn and queens, rather than just fixing the symptoms of people getting stabbed while walking to school by giving people bus rides. :\

I grew up in the barrio and I walked bout 2.5 or 3 miles to school. So did a bunch of other people. I've still yet to be stabbed without doing something to deserve it.

Wait, what did you do to deserve getting stabbed? :roll:

Okay, I'm being pedantic, but the way you worded it does imply you deserved to be stabbed that time you were stabbed.

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Re: NYC MTA Considers Dropping Student MetroCards

Postby The Reaper » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:24 pm UTC

Jahoclave wrote:
The Reaper wrote:
scikidus wrote:
kiklion wrote:Also there is no mention as to the distance kids will be walking to get to school. Going to sound like an old fart here (Gah just graduated college, only 21) but when I was in M.S I walked just under 2 miles to get to school every day by myself. Depending on the season (if I had sports or not) I walked home alone as well. Sometimes a class mates parent would see me, recognize me, and offer me a ride; but if it wasn't spring I was walking home alone. Spring time I walked to practice at the H.S with other track kids.
One does not simply walk two miles in Brooklyn or Queens. Unless you're particularly fond of stab wounds.

Maybe they should clean up brooklyn and queens, rather than just fixing the symptoms of people getting stabbed while walking to school by giving people bus rides. :\

I grew up in the barrio and I walked bout 2.5 or 3 miles to school. So did a bunch of other people. I've still yet to be stabbed without doing something to deserve it.

Wait, what did you do to deserve getting stabbed? :roll:

Okay, I'm being pedantic, but the way you worded it does imply you deserved to be stabbed that time you were stabbed.

Know how they say don't fuck around with weapons like they're toys? they mean it.

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Re: NYC MTA Considers Dropping Student MetroCards

Postby Princess Marzipan » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:00 pm UTC

...well if you got stabbed, they must at least be passable.
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Re: NYC MTA Considers Dropping Student MetroCards

Postby Cynical Idealist » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:03 pm UTC

kiklion wrote:Also there is no mention as to the distance kids will be walking to get to school. Going to sound like an old fart here (Gah just graduated college, only 21) but when I was in M.S I walked just under 2 miles to get to school every day by myself. Depending on the season (if I had sports or not) I walked home alone as well. Sometimes a class mates parent would see me, recognize me, and offer me a ride; but if it wasn't spring I was walking home alone. Spring time I walked to practice at the H.S with other track kids.

The Fucking Article wrote:"Some kids are traveling up to 90 minutes by public transportation," Hemphill said. "There's absolutely no way to get there without the subway and bus."


90 minutes on public transportation. That doesn't sound even remotely like 2 miles to me. Also, what was said above regarding NYC not being the best place for schoolchildren to be walking by themselves.
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Re: NYC MTA Considers Dropping Student MetroCards

Postby The Reaper » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:15 pm UTC

Cynical Idealist wrote:
kiklion wrote:Also there is no mention as to the distance kids will be walking to get to school. Going to sound like an old fart here (Gah just graduated college, only 21) but when I was in M.S I walked just under 2 miles to get to school every day by myself. Depending on the season (if I had sports or not) I walked home alone as well. Sometimes a class mates parent would see me, recognize me, and offer me a ride; but if it wasn't spring I was walking home alone. Spring time I walked to practice at the H.S with other track kids.

The Fucking Article wrote:"Some kids are traveling up to 90 minutes by public transportation," Hemphill said. "There's absolutely no way to get there without the subway and bus."


90 minutes on public transportation. That doesn't sound even remotely like 2 miles to me. Also, what was said above regarding NYC not being the best place for schoolchildren to be walking by themselves.

I'm 3 miles from my university. it takes over 2 hours bus ride. learn2city bus systems. They go to the main hub and then transfer a few times.

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Re: NYC MTA Considers Dropping Student MetroCards

Postby BlackSails » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:18 pm UTC

Not in NYC they dont.

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Re: NYC MTA Considers Dropping Student MetroCards

Postby wst » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:19 pm UTC

...why not... go to a school that you live closer to? It's not like they're stuck out in the arse end of no-where...
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Re: NYC MTA Considers Dropping Student MetroCards

Postby Cynical Idealist » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:34 pm UTC

The Reaper wrote:
Cynical Idealist wrote:
kiklion wrote:Also there is no mention as to the distance kids will be walking to get to school. Going to sound like an old fart here (Gah just graduated college, only 21) but when I was in M.S I walked just under 2 miles to get to school every day by myself. Depending on the season (if I had sports or not) I walked home alone as well. Sometimes a class mates parent would see me, recognize me, and offer me a ride; but if it wasn't spring I was walking home alone. Spring time I walked to practice at the H.S with other track kids.

The Fucking Article wrote:"Some kids are traveling up to 90 minutes by public transportation," Hemphill said. "There's absolutely no way to get there without the subway and bus."


90 minutes on public transportation. That doesn't sound even remotely like 2 miles to me. Also, what was said above regarding NYC not being the best place for schoolchildren to be walking by themselves.

I'm 3 miles from my university. it takes over 2 hours bus ride. learn2city bus systems. They go to the main hub and then transfer a few times.

It takes me ~40 minutes to go the 13 miles to my university by bus (if I'm running late and miss the bus, I drive there and use the free parallel parking, which takes about half an hour instead). There are about five different bus lines that go there, and only two of them stop at anything that could possibly be described as a "hub". There are another two lines that may require transferring at a hub, but those are light rail lines, not bus lines, and the only way to ever take more than an hour on the light rail is if you get on the wrong train and take it to the end of its line and back to transfer to the right train (not that I'd know anything about doing that).
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Elvish Pillager wrote:See? All the problems in our society are caused by violent video games, like FarmVille.

The Reaper
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Re: NYC MTA Considers Dropping Student MetroCards

Postby The Reaper » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:41 pm UTC

Cynical Idealist wrote:It takes me ~40 minutes to go the 13 miles to my university by bus (if I'm running late and miss the bus, I drive there and use the free parallel parking, which takes about half an hour instead). There are about five different bus lines that go there, and only two of them stop at anything that could possibly be described as a "hub". There are another two lines that may require transferring at a hub, but those are light rail lines, not bus lines, and the only way to ever take more than an hour on the light rail is if you get on the wrong train and take it to the end of its line and back to transfer to the right train (not that I'd know anything about doing that).
Its a 15-20 minute drive for me, taking in school zones and traffic lights.

As for NYC not using hubs, how does the mass transit system work when you're not on the line going to where you need to go?

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BlackSails
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Re: NYC MTA Considers Dropping Student MetroCards

Postby BlackSails » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:48 pm UTC

The Reaper wrote:
As for NYC not using hubs, how does the mass transit system work when you're not on the line going to where you need to go?


The lines intersect. The closest thing to a hub is union square, where the L, (4,5,6), (B,D,F,V) and (N,Q,R,W) lines all intersect.

For example: You are at city hall, and you want to go to columbia university. The easiest way to do this is to take the 4,5 or 6 line to Union Square, transfer to the L, take the L to 6th avenue and take the 1 from there to 116th st.

Or you are at the Museum of Natural History and want to go to Bellevue Hospital. There are several ways to do this. One way is to take the B subway to union square and take the L to first avenue and walk from there. Another way is to take the M79 crosstown bus 2nd avenue and take the M15 downtown and walk from 2nd and 28th.

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Re: NYC MTA Considers Dropping Student MetroCards

Postby The Reaper » Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:00 am UTC

BlackSails wrote:
The Reaper wrote:
As for NYC not using hubs, how does the mass transit system work when you're not on the line going to where you need to go?


The lines intersect. The closest thing to a hub is union square, where the L, (4,5,6), (B,D,F,V) and (N,Q,R,W) lines all intersect.

For example: You are at city hall, and you want to go to columbia university. The easiest way to do this is to take the 4,5 or 6 line to Union Square, transfer to the L, take the L to 6th avenue and take the 1 from there to 116th st.

Or you are at the Museum of Natural History and want to go to Bellevue Hospital. There are several ways to do this. One way is to take the B subway to union square and take the L to first avenue and walk from there. Another way is to take the M79 crosstown bus 2nd avenue and take the M15 downtown and walk from 2nd and 28th.

I wish we had a train :(

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scikidus
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Re: NYC MTA Considers Dropping Student MetroCards

Postby scikidus » Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:52 am UTC

The Reaper wrote:Maybe they should clean up brooklyn and queens, rather than just fixing the symptoms of people getting stabbed while walking to school by giving people bus rides. :\

That would be nice, if again, there was any money. Also, fixing up Brooklyn and Queens ( a multi-billion dollar prospect, versus the MTA's 610 million dollar deficit) doesn't fix the problem that kids would still have to walk quite a ways to get to their schools. Bridges between boroughs were built primarily for cars and trains, not pedestrians. It's downright dangerous to cross from Bronx to Manhattan and vice versa on foot. If you're in northern Queens, good luck.
wst wrote:...why not... go to a school that you live closer to? It's not like they're stuck out in the arse end of no-where...

A great solution with a flawed assumption, namely that NYC high schools are all equal. New York has three high school programs: local private schools (not the greatest education...), specialized high schools (around 1-2 per borough, think Stuyvesant, Bronx High School of Science, etc.) and private schools. Your high school education should not depend on your ability to walk to the school. That undercuts poorer students in Brooklyn from attending elite private schools, even on full scholarship.
The Reaper wrote:As for NYC not using hubs, how does the mass transit system work when you're not on the line going to where you need to go?

BlackSails basically covered this one. The NYC transit system has two parts, buses and subways. Both are tangled meshes of crisscrossing routes. The fare for riding one bus or subway (not based on distance traversed) is [currently] $2.25. The MTA also has a transfer system, allowing bus-to-subway, subway-to-bus, and bus-to-bus transfers for every fare paid (entitlement to transfer expires after two hours though). The Subways are (for the most part) interconnected, allowing you to get from one ot the other without spending an additional $2.25.

To get a sense of what I mean when I say "tangled meshes of crisscrossing routes", take a look at the maps:
http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/nyct/maps/index.html

And finally, a link to walking directions for a kid who attends Stuyvesant HS and lives somewhere in Elmhurst, Queens:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Grand+Ave&daddr=Stuyvesant+High+School&hl=en&geocode=FayJbQIdMp6Y-w%3BFbhNbQIdVKOW-yH5Rj9oAEUItSnhiue3HVrCiTFLZUmKGXzq9A&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=0&sz=12&dirflg=w&sll=40.703286,-73.960304&sspn=0.212642,0.295601&ie=UTF8&ll=40.734511,-73.923054&spn=0.106271,0.1478&t=h&z=13
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