Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

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Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby The Reaper » Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:54 am UTC

A Canadian man was charged with first-degree murder Friday for fatally shooting his father in the back with a crossbow in a Toronto library as shocked mothers and children watched.

Zhou Fang, 24, appeared in court to face the murder charge a day after Si Cheng, 52, was killed in the library about an hour after a nearby school let out for the day. The judge ordered that Fang be held without bail.
Toronto police Const. Tony Vella said Cheng was pronounced dead at the scene and Fang was arrested later Thursday in a Toronto suburb.
"The use of a crossbow is definitely a unique case in Toronto," said Vella. "You hear about guns, you hear about knives being used, but you definitely don't hear about a crossbow."

Earlier Friday police said the two men knew each other, and Vella later confirmed the men were father and son. Police did not say what caused the altercation.

Toronto Public Library spokeswoman Anne Marie Aikins said the popular neighborhood library was busy with its after-school and mother-and-children programs at the time. Babies were among those in the branch when Cheng was killed, she said.
Although there were many witnesses, police have not yet confirmed if anyone noticed the weapon before the attack.
The library remained closed Friday for the police investigation.

Residents near the library were stunned by the unusual attack.

"This street is full of kids ... It's very traumatizing," said Linus Smith, who was sitting in a restaurant across the street when she said the suspect came out of the library with something in his hand, got into a U-Haul truck and drove off.
"It's shocking," said Troy Ross, 39, who lives across the street from the library and often takes his children there. "You don't think of a crossbow as something for killing people, just as something for recreation."

The Royal Canadian Mounted Police reports the only crossbows prohibited in Canada are those that can be fired with one hand and are 19 inches (50 centimeters) or less in length. A license or registration certificate is not required to own crossbows longer than 19 inches that require two hands to use. Such crossbows are sold in hunting shops across Canada.

Vella would not reveal what type of crossbow was used in Thursday's killing but said the suspect has not been charted with any weapons violations.

This is not the first incident involving crossbows in Canada.
In 1991, a woman was shot dead by her estranged husband with a crossbow on an Ottawa, Ontario, street. A father was charged in July with wounding his 36-year-old son with a crossbow in British Columbia.
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"It's shocking," said Troy Ross, 39, who lives across the street from the library and often takes his children there. "You don't think of a crossbow as something for killing people, just as something for recreation."

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Re: Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby Kanosea » Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:45 am UTC

News from the Near Future:

"Zhou Fang, after months of intensive trial, has been found guilty on all counts, including first degree murder. He has been sentenced to write an apology letter to each of his family members and shake their respective hands, making this the harshest punishment ever handed down in Canadian court history."

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Re: Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby Zanmanoodle » Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:16 am UTC

I like how they found the crossbow amusing, but it's not too weird. Maybe he watched Deliverance.

On the Georgia Tech campus, which is where my girlfriend attends and I live near, there was a samurai sword attack. Really.
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/22465319/detail.html

...over a woman he wasn't even friends with.
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Re: Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby Jahoclave » Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:41 am UTC

See what happens when you don't level your character? Your son just comes and omgwtf ownz your n00b self with a kickass crossbow of +15 to patricide. He's just lucky he didn't explode into coins.

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Re: Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby Thirty-one » Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:48 am UTC

Zanmanoodle wrote:I like how they found the crossbow amusing, but it's not too weird. Maybe he watched Deliverance.


Or maybe he's all about the silence in the library?
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Re: Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby johnny_7713 » Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:31 am UTC

In the Netherlands about 15 years ago we had the 'ballpoint murder' where a woman died after a ballpoint pen went through her eye socket and into her brain. Her son was accused of having shot the pen with a crossbow, but was acquitted on appeal after shooting trials indicated that the ballpoint could not have been fired by a crossbow. The validity of those trials has later been disputed.

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Re: Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby legopelle » Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:14 pm UTC

Jahoclave wrote:See what happens when you don't level your character? Your son just comes and omgwtf ownz your n00b self with a kickass crossbow of +15 to patricide. He's just lucky he didn't explode into coins.

Kanosea wrote:News from the Near Future:

"Zhou Fang, after months of intensive trial, has been found guilty on all counts, including first degree murder. He has been sentenced to write an apology letter to each of his family members and shake their respective hands, making this the harshest punishment ever handed down in Canadian court history."

Why are there two epic comments on one page? Not cool. Save some for my threads! :)

Also, this is funny in a morbid, medieval way.
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Re: Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby Azrael » Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:07 pm UTC

I'm more curious about the ability to walk into a public library crowded with staff, mothers, children and (if Canadian libraries are anything like those in the US) plenty of retirees with a frikking crossbow without eliciting a response prior to murdering your own father.

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Re: Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby JBJ » Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:18 pm UTC

I wondered about that myself. It's not uncommon for people to carry backpacks and such into libraries, so it's possible it was concealed in a backback, duffel bag, or some such. Considering the size and shape of crossbows I've seen, it's not the most practical but not implausible.
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Re: Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby mike-l » Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:42 pm UTC

Azrael wrote:I'm more curious about the ability to walk into a public library crowded with staff, mothers, children and (if Canadian libraries are anything like those in the US) plenty of retirees with a frikking crossbow without eliciting a response prior to murdering your own father.


Yay hindsite. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKB7zfopiUA Any of them could have had an automatic rifle hiding under those bedsheets, but pretty much everyone was simply amused by them. If I say a guy walking around with a crossbow, amusement would be my reaction too.
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Re: Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby Belial » Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:01 pm UTC

Azrael wrote:I'm more curious about the ability to walk into a public library crowded with staff, mothers, children and (if Canadian libraries are anything like those in the US) plenty of retirees with a frikking crossbow without eliciting a response prior to murdering your own father.


Be honest. If some kid walked past your reference desk with a fucking crossbow, would you stop him or would you blink, turn to your coworker, and say "dude, am I completely out of it, or did I just see a dude walk by with a crossbow?"
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Re: Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby scarecrovv » Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:23 pm UTC

Belial wrote:Be honest. If some kid walked past your reference desk with a fucking crossbow, would you stop him or would you blink, turn to your coworker, and say "dude, am I completely out of it, or did I just see a dude walk by with a crossbow?"

Exactly. Libraries are not Airports. If you take over the library then you... have taken over a library. Whoopdefuckingdoo. What are you going to do with a library? Detonate it in the middle of a city to kill a million people? Crash it into a skyscraper? Good luck.

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Re: Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby Azrael » Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:40 pm UTC

I'm not saying you need metal detectors, I'm saying that if someone was walking through the library with a crossbow (let alone a rifle) that I'd call the cops pretty damn quick.

scarecrovv wrote: If you take over the library then you... have taken over a library. Whoopdefuckingdoo. What are you going to do with a library?
Kill or injure 21 people? That was, honestly, a pretty dumb thing for you to say.

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Re: Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby Jahoclave » Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:18 pm UTC

Azrael wrote:
scarecrovv wrote: If you take over the library then you... have taken over a library. Whoopdefuckingdoo. What are you going to do with a library?
Kill or injure 21 people? That was, honestly, a pretty dumb thing for you to say.

In his defense, that's a school library, not a public library.

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Re: Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:26 pm UTC

Belial wrote:
Azrael wrote:I'm more curious about the ability to walk into a public library crowded with staff, mothers, children and (if Canadian libraries are anything like those in the US) plenty of retirees with a frikking crossbow without eliciting a response prior to murdering your own father.


Be honest. If some kid walked past your reference desk with a fucking crossbow, would you stop him or would you blink, turn to your coworker, and say "dude, am I completely out of it, or did I just see a dude walk by with a crossbow?"

I mean, depending on how the dude was holding it, or if it was loaded, my response would range from 'Holy fucking shit duck' to 'Sir, you'll have to leave that here.'

Someone walking around with a crossbow is odd. Someone walking around with an arrow in the, uh, arrowplace, is alarming. Someone walking around with a cocked and ready crossbow is terrifying. But loading a crossbow is trickier than loading a gun, and readying a crossbow is significantly harder than loading a gun.
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Re: Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby Zamfir » Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:37 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:
Belial wrote:
Azrael wrote:I'm more curious about the ability to walk into a public library crowded with staff, mothers, children and (if Canadian libraries are anything like those in the US) plenty of retirees with a frikking crossbow without eliciting a response prior to murdering your own father.


Be honest. If some kid walked past your reference desk with a fucking crossbow, would you stop him or would you blink, turn to your coworker, and say "dude, am I completely out of it, or did I just see a dude walk by with a crossbow?"

I mean, depending on how the dude was holding it, or if it was loaded, my response would range from 'Holy fucking shit duck' to 'Sir, you'll have to leave that here.'

Someone walking around with a crossbow is odd. Someone walking around with an arrow in the, uh, arrowplace, is alarming. Someone walking around with a cocked and ready crossbow is terrifying. But loading a crossbow is trickier than loading a gun, and readying a crossbow is significantly harder than loading a gun.

But that assumes you are paying enough attention to note such details. Put the crossbow in a carrying back, and you look like you just returned from your weekly cross-bow training or live-action role playing. It possibly just doesn't register as a real weapon.

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Re: Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby scarecrovv » Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:38 pm UTC

Well, yes, you are a threat to the people inside. But the fact remains that a library is a much lower risk target than an airport, a nuclear power station, or a chemical plant. Heck, there's not even anything worth stealing, aside from some outdated computers and maybe the cash box for late fines. Now if you walked into a bank, a pharmacy, or a convenience store with a crossbow, I would be concerned, because there's a likely motive for crime in the immediate vicinity.

Also, I realize now that it was right in the first sentence, but I didn't actually read the article before my first post:oops:. I assumed it was in rural Canada, where it would be less suspicious for a hunter to have a weapon on him. I didn't notice it took place in Toronto. That is more a bit more suspicious, I admit.

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Re: Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby The Reaper » Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:57 pm UTC

scarecrovv wrote:Also, I realize now that it was right in the first sentence, but I didn't actually read the article before my first post:oops:. I assumed it was in rural Canada, where it would be less suspicious for a hunter to have a weapon on him. I didn't notice it took place in Toronto. That is more a bit more suspicious, I admit.

I'm still surprised that people don't think crossbows are designed to kill people. Effing amazing.

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Re: Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby Belial » Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:03 pm UTC

Only took about six or seven hundred years to go from "so deadly it's a handheld war-crime" to "is that even a weapon? How cute."
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Re: Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:04 pm UTC

Er, well, sort of a tangent argument, but crossbows might not be designed to kill people. I don't know what this dude was packing, but something that is specifically aimed at killing turkey, or deer, or moose, or bears, will still kill a person, albeit with less efficacy.

I mean, I shoot skeet. You use a shotgun with a choke. It's designed to blow up clay pigeons. It will kill a person.
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Re: Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby Yakk » Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:04 pm UTC

This is Canada. Even on the mean streets of Toronto (with its sky-high 3.2 murder rate), if someone wasn't brandishing their crossbow while looking shifty-eyed, I doubt calling the cops on someone with a crossbow is really called for. It is a sporting implement. Calling the cops on someone carrying around a sporting implement, without any other sign of danger, seems impolite, even if it could be used as a weapon.
Spoiler:
Boston: 49 murders in 2009. Lowest level since '03. 589141 people, so 8.3 murders/100k.
Toronto: 80 murders in 2005, with double the number of gun homicides compared to the previous year. 2,503,281 people, so 3.2 murders/100k.

Basically, Boston has 3x the homicide rate of Toronto.

The Murder Capital of Canada is Winnipeg, with 3.55 murders/100k.

The Murder Capital of USA is New Orleans, with 52 murders/100k.

15x as deadly.

(New Orleans has half the population of Winnipeg, and size typically correlates with a higher murder rate. In the entire USA, there are exactly three cities -- Austin, Honalulu and San Diego -- with a higher population than Winnipeg with matching or lower murder rate. And that is the murder capital of Canada.)

The overall murder rate of the USA is a good 40% higher than the murder capital of Canada's murder rate, and 150% higher than Canada's murder rate as a whole.

The short of it: Canada's murder rate is so low, that if you spotted someone carrying a crossbow, you'd probably kill more people from traffic accidents due to the police driving over to talk to the person than you'd prevent by calling the cops on him (which is at best a small exaggeration -- both numbers are probably going to be so near zero it isn't funny), because he almost certainly isn't going to kill anyone with such a ridiculous weapon.



Some Sources:
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... crime_rate

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... in_Toronto

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massac ... n_6_years/
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Re: Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby Triangle_Man » Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:06 pm UTC

The Reaper wrote:
scarecrovv wrote:Also, I realize now that it was right in the first sentence, but I didn't actually read the article before my first post:oops:. I assumed it was in rural Canada, where it would be less suspicious for a hunter to have a weapon on him. I didn't notice it took place in Toronto. That is more a bit more suspicious, I admit.

I'm still surprised that people don't think crossbows are designed to kill people. Effing amazing.


Apparently, being an archaic weapon has allowed the crossbow to escape it's violent reputation.

Either that or people just aren't paying attention...

Also, Yakk, your statistics are okay, but they are a little dated. I'm wondering what the current crime rates are.
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Re: Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby Skeinchug » Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:10 pm UTC

I remember the days when the crossbow was thought to be the doomsday weapon... wait. Let's try that again.

I remember the period in history when people though the crossbow was the doomsday weapon.

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Re: Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby Yakk » Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:16 pm UTC

1-3 years old is a little dated? /puzzle. Short of going out there and counting by hand, that is pretty up to date.

But sure. I can google.

Overall US murder rates from here: http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm
USA 2009: 5.0 murders per 100k.

Canadian murder rate: http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/Legal12b-eng.htm

2.8 times as many murders per capita in the USA compared to Canada. US average murder rate.

(Note that Nunavut has a population of 30k: that high rate represents a grand total 2, 2, 7, 4 and 6 murders in the year respectively. It isn't good, but stats on murder rates ignore cities under 100k for a reason -- too much noise. And Nunavut is a provice 2/3 the size of India with 30k people in it. It is a problem.)
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Re: Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby Triangle_Man » Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:18 pm UTC

Thank you for answering my question.

Of course, the US is bound to have a higher murder rate due to it's larger population, amoung other things.
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Re: Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby PhoenixEnigma » Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:26 pm UTC

Triangle_Man wrote:Thank you for answering my question.

Of course, the US is bound to have a higher murder rate due to it's larger population, amoung other things.
No, the US is likely to have more murders because of the greater population. Homicide rates, however, are usually quoted as "murders per 100k people" and, therefore, should be independent of population (all else being equal).

FWIW, as a Canadian, I wouldn't be too put off by a someone carrying a crossbow around. It'd be a little unusual, sure, and I wouldn't expect them to just walk into a bank with it, but otherwise I wouldn't be very concerned.

Also, WTF? You can tote the largest crossbow you want around, but you need a license for airguns over 5J muzzle energy? How does that work?
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Re: Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby JBJ » Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:29 pm UTC

PhoenixEnigma wrote:Also, WTF? You can tote the largest crossbow you want around, but you need a license for airguns over 5J muzzle energy? How does that work?
Reloading/rate of fire
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Re: Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby Belial » Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:31 pm UTC

PhoenixEnigma wrote:[No, the US is likely to have more murders because of the greater population. Homicide rates, however, are usually quoted as "murders per 100k people" and, therefore, should be independent of population (all else being equal).


It should be independent of population number, maybe, but not of population density. In higher densities, people find more excuses to kill one another. If you don't see your neighbors without a 20 minute walk, you tend to find less reason to shoot them. And forming gangs or making a living mugging folks is just right out of the fucking question.
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Re: Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby The Reaper » Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:39 pm UTC

Belial wrote:If you don't see your neighbors without a 20 minute walk, you tend to find less reason to shoot them. And forming gangs or making a living mugging folks is just right out of the fucking question.

Unless you're in REALLY good shape.

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Re: Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby Zamfir » Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:42 pm UTC

Belial wrote:
PhoenixEnigma wrote:[No, the US is likely to have more murders because of the greater population. Homicide rates, however, are usually quoted as "murders per 100k people" and, therefore, should be independent of population (all else being equal).


It should be independent of population number, maybe, but not of population density. In higher densities, people find more excuses to kill one another. If you don't see your neighbors without a 20 minute walk, you tend to find less reason to shoot them. And forming gangs or making a living mugging folks is just right out of the fucking question.

but nowhere in the world are such conditions common for more than a few percent of the population. Even in those empty regions of canada, the far majority of people live in villages and towns within shouting distance of their neighbours.

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Re: Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby Yakk » Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:52 pm UTC

...

Nations with more population imply a higher murder rate?

I don't know how to answer that. I can try.
Spoiler:
I am talking about murders per 100,000 people. Not total murders. Higher population does not mean a higher murder rate. (Higher population density can, but I cited Toronto, the 5th largest city in North America (behind Mexico City (~10, probably corrupt), New York City (6.3), Los Angeles (12.4) and Chicago (15.6)), and compared it to Boston, which is a tiny city.

Going down the USA list of cities smaller than Toronto, we have Houston (13.6), Phoenix (~8), Philadelphia (~20), San Antonio (~7), San Diego (~3), Dallas (~13), which brings us down to the 1 million cutoff.

Using CMA (census metropolitan area) stats in Canada:
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidie ... a2-eng.htm
(note that this gives Toronto a population of ~5 million, placing it over Chicago)

Here are the Murders/100k of Canada's biggest cities
Winnipeg 4.07 (~0.7 million)
Edmonton 3.44 (~1 million)
Calgary 2.87 (~1.1 million)
Vancouver 2.37 (~2.1 million)
Toronto 1.86 (~5.1 million)
Montréal 1.27 (~3.6 million)
Ottawa 1.20 (~1.1 million)
Québec 1.09 (~0.7 million)
Hamilton 0.85 (~0.7 million)
Kitchener 0.78 (~0.5 million)

In short: Canadian murder rates in our largest urban areas tend to be 200% to 40% of our average national murder rate.

Canadian Urbanization is ~80%. USA Urbanization is ~82%. That is close enough that any difference is going to be due to quirks in definition differences and data gathering.

At 10% of the US total population, Canada has 6 cities over 1 million people (CMA). The USA, with ~10 times the population, has 9 cities over 1 million population (Plus DC, which isn't formally a city).

Now if we use a broader US definition of metro area (because I used a broad definition for Canada), the USA has 62 cities with a metro area of over 1 million people.

Actual ratios:
Large cities: 62/6 = 10.33
Population: 307/33.7 = 9.10

So Canada has 13% more "large cities" per capita than the USA does.

There is no sign that, on average, the USA has a significantly more dense urban population. Similar sized US and Canadian cities ... have massively different murder rates.

I don't live in fear. If I see someone carrying a crossbow, it is probably because they are going to the archery club before or after, and almost certainly that they are not going to kill someone. Especially if they are not wigging out -- anyone who is hardened enough not to wig out on the way to kill someone isn't going to be using something as clumsy as a crossbow. If I see someone wigging out while in the possession of a baseball bat, utility knife, gun, crossbow, medium-sized rock, or stick... I'll call the cops.

Please don't project US telegraphed fear-based responses on places that have enough problems with media spill over. It's a crossbow, not a sign of the apocalypse.

---

And it is the lowest density parts of Canada (the northern territories) that have the highest murder rates. (admittedly, when the population falls below "there is nobody there", murder rates also fall. Mainly because it is hard to manage to attack someone km away).

(High murder rates seem to have more in common with disenfranchisement from power than anything else. The areas with high murder rates in Canada are also those with higher aboriginal populations, and there is massive economic and cultural disenfranchisement among Canadian aboriginals. Large cities, with impersonal societal mechanics grinding away at people, possibly also generate feelings of disenfranchisement from power.)
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Re: Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby Jessica » Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:56 pm UTC

It seems Winnipeg lost it's title as murder capital earlier this year, to Abbotsford, BC. As a former Winnipeger, I feel sad that it lost it's title. Maybe in 2012 they can take it back.

And yes, higher population will probably mean more violent crimes. But, that's not the only factor of course. If it were, then Toronto wouldn't have a lower murder rate than Buenos Aires (thus having one of the lowest in the Americas).

Also, western provinces happen to have higher murder rates, mainly from gang activity.

Or you know, what yakk said...
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Re: Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:05 pm UTC

Jessica wrote: mainly from gang activity.

Canada has gangs? Do they skate to brawls?
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Re: Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby mike-l » Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:06 pm UTC

While population density can affect crime rate, it's extremely insufficient to explain the US's murder rate. Of the top 23 GDP/Capita, the US has the highest murder rate per capita, at 4.28/100k, which is 51% higher than the 2nd place (Finland at 2.83) and 227% higher than the average of the other 22 countries (1.27 taking an average of averages, or 1.21 if you take the weighted average). Among those countries, the US is 17th by population density. Hong Kong is first at 40 times the average density (average of the rest) and has the third lowest murder rate.

Izawwlgood wrote:
Jessica wrote: mainly from gang activity.

Canada has gangs? Do they skate to brawls?

Nah, noone ever gets hurt in a hockey fight.

In seriousness, it's rarely that icy as that requires temperatures around freezing for the snow/rain to melt and refreeze. Normally it just goes south of 0 and stays there til spring, so we just have piles and piles of snow.
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Re: Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby Azrael » Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:34 am UTC

Yakk wrote:I don't live in fear. If I see someone carrying a crossbow, it is probably because they are going to the archery club before or after, and almost certainly that they are not going to kill someone. ... Please don't project US telegraphed fear-based responses on places that have enough problems with media spill over. It's a crossbow, not a sign of the apocalypse.

Fuck that "blame the hyper fear mongering US media" noise. Really, a guy in a library with a crossbow wouldn't give you pause? I'm not talking about in a bag walking by, or left in his car, but actually walking around with it in a library. Thinking that's not quite right isn't some vast regionally-specific, half-assed generalization of paranoid made-up values that's worthy of contempt. That's called having a brain, and using it.

There are plenty of rural places in the US where that, or even a rifle in hunting season might not turn heads. But Toronto is your most dense city, the Canadian equivalent of New York (or Chicago in gross population). That shit is odd in an urban environment, to say the least.

Yakk wrote:There is no sign that, on average, the USA has a significantly more dense urban population. Similar sized US and Canadian cities ... have massively different murder rates.

You're doing population density completely wrong. It's people/area. It's especially easy since Wikipedia lists the numbers for you, no math required. For base municipalities (rather than defined urban or metropolitan areas, but feel free to use those instead), here are some examples:

Tonronto (#1): 3972 ppl/sq km vs New York: 10,630 ppl/sq km for 2.68 times more dense. Edmunton (#5): 1067 vs. Phoenix: 2937 for 2.75 times more dense. Quebec (#10): 1087 vs San Jose, 2223 for 2.05 times more dense.

And you can keep going if you like.

Yes, Virginia, there is evidence that the US has a more dense urban populations.

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Re: Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby Yakk » Tue Dec 07, 2010 4:29 am UTC

Compare Toronto to US cities #5/6 (because we are comparing a list of 6 1 million+CMAs to a list of 62, we should roughly uniformly sample).

In the 30-60 minutes I took to gather the density information on the US 5/6 15/16 and (failed) 25/26, Canada's 3 most populous cities came out ahead, Toronto is less dense than Phili but blew Houston out of the water. Montreal is more dense than Toronto, let alone the #15/16 US metro areas by population. I couldn't figure out 25/26 in the USA, but Vancouver is similar in density to Montreal.

While Canada does have a large north, that north is largely unpopulated. Most of Canada's population is located along a thin belt between Quebec and Windsor (ie, about 16 million people). The vast majority of the rest is concentrated close to the southern border, where it only hits -20 to -40 in the deep dark of winter. The vast north is relatively unpopulated: and as for crime rates, that vast north has a crime rate/murder that blows the south out of the water.

---

Like I said, it is a crossbow. If I saw someone walking with a crossbow strapped to their back, or in a bag, I wouldn't call the police. If they had a loaded crossbow and/or where brandishing it about in a crowded area, I probably would call police. Sure, carrying a crossbow is strange: but jumping to "this person is out to kill someone" seems paranoid to me. And involving the police seems, as I noted, rude -- unless, again the person was acting erratic or otherwise alarming. "This person is part of an archery club", "this person does medieval reenactments", "this person hand-built a crossbow for some competition" seem far more likely.

Calling police is more likely to cause a problem. If they move at speed, they risk causing traffic accidents (random: Canadian police don't engage in high speed pursuits much anymore: they just station officers at off-ramps and/or shut down the highway if they have to. More people die from high speed pursuits than are killed by people who run away in them...), and if they arrive they are showing up in an unknown situation with guns and weapons and only my vague description to go on. Meanwhile, the poor dude who is coming back from archery practice has his day ruined -- and if the cops are extra dumb, someone gets shot.

Now, I could see this person acting agitated. But no, I wouldn't call the cops just because someone was lugging a crossbow around a Canadian metro area. Even a library.
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Re: Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby SummerGlauFan » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:49 am UTC

mike-l wrote:
Izawwlgood wrote:
Jessica wrote: mainly from gang activity.

Canada has gangs? Do they skate to brawls?

Nah, noone ever gets hurt in a hockey fight.

In seriousness, it's rarely that icy as that requires temperatures around freezing for the snow/rain to melt and refreeze. Normally it just goes south of 0 and stays there til spring, so we just have piles and piles of snow.


Ok, do you ski to brawls?

Back on topic, if I saw someone with a crossbow in any area not strictly no-weapons, I'd assume they had a legit purpose for it (RP/cosplay, hunting, sport, heck even schools have archery teams yes I know they don't use crossbows but the principle is the same) so worst case scenario I'd just ask them to leave it at the desk.

Besides, it's surprisingly easy to conceal those things, especially under baggy clothes*.

*I mean, it's Canada. It's freaking freezing up there.
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Re: Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby Zamfir » Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:11 am UTC

SummerGlauFan wrote:*I mean, it's Canada. It's freaking freezing up there.

They can always claim it's for shooting baby seals.

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Re: Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby TheKrikkitWars » Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:42 pm UTC

Zamfir wrote:
SummerGlauFan wrote:*I mean, it's Canada. It's freaking freezing up there.

They can always claim it's for shooting baby seals.


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Bear: Image
Seal: Image
Chinese-Canadian Retiree:Image
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Re: Canadian uses crossbow to kill his father

Postby the_bandersnatch » Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:14 pm UTC

TheKrikkitWars wrote:Canadian Wildlife Guide:
Spoiler:
Bear: Image
Seal: Image
Chinese-Canadian Retiree:Image


Got to admit, I lol'd.
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