Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby Negated » Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:48 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:I'm a bit surprised to see people in agreement here; MasterCard customers, card holders, have done nothing wrong. While I agree that hitting the company where it counts is the best way to send a message, think of all the people whose potential livelihoods will be affected, for politics they are neither involved in or forewarned of.

If the attacks somehow released a memo or notification about what they were doing, I'd be MILDLY more accepting of this, but what you're basically greenlighting is the tampering with the financial security of countless innocent people because they were associated with a company that did something you disagree with.

You cannot effectively protest without affecting anyone.

When truck drivers stage a protest, they may create traffic jams.
When hospital staffs are on strike, the hospital can handle less patients than normal.

I'd be more affected by bus driver strikes than Mastercard not working for a day. It is inconvenient, but not a serious concern for me.

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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:56 pm UTC

Belial wrote:How exactly do you suggest striking at a company without inconveniencing its customers? If the customers are all perfectly happy and still using the service, the service won't feel the pain.

Yes, that rather being my point. You're making a point to the company, by pissing off it's customers. Customers who didn't do anything wrong. It's like kicking a puppy because Dick Cheney was it's owner.

Either the attack affects customers and they bitch and moan about it, and the company listens, OR, the attack doesn't affect customers and the company doesn't pay attention. I personally think there are other ways to go after a company than potentially harming it's customer base, but I recognize this as a particularly effective strategy.
Heisenberg wrote:Edit: To me this is more like protesting in front of a Wal-Mart. Saying that you're impacting customers' "financial security" is a stretch.

No, this is more like going to a movie theater, and cutting the reel in half because Landmark Cinema's did something you don't like.
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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby PhatPhungus » Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:56 pm UTC

Also, the actual use of a mastercard is unaffected, they're only attacking the corporate website. I can't decide if that's good or bad.
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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby Dark567 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:00 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:Either the attack affects investors and they bitch and moan about it, and the company listens, OR, the attack doesn't affect investors and the company doesn't pay attention.

Fix'd that for you. As long as the bitching and moaning of the customers doesn't affect the stockholders(which seems to be the reality) mastercards not gonna care too much.
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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby Negated » Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:05 pm UTC

PhatPhungus wrote:Also, the actual use of a mastercard is unaffected, they're only attacking the corporate website. I can't decide if that's good or bad.

Mastercard claims that payments are not affected. But BBC reports that some customers are unable to use their card: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11935539

Since transactions have to go through their server, it is quite likely that the DDOS attacks can affect the customers.

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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:05 pm UTC

Well, the clarify, I don't think that affecting the customers is a taboo that must be avoided in effective protest. Obviously strikes and the like affect people uninvolved, and I for one have participated in a bunch of Critical Mass demonstration/parades, which have, at their core, the tenet of pissing off uninvolved motorists.

The difference, I feel, is that Critical Mass (just to use it as a counter example) has precedence for unsnaring jams in emergencies, literally clearing large strips of street for emergency vehicles and the like. If someone needs to access the MasterCard website or [something bad] happens, they're fucked, and all because they made the mistake of being a MasterCard carrier.
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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby Dangermouse » Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:07 pm UTC

I'm going to be an obnoxious moralist, but it seems that Joe C. Publics inability for today to buy, on borrowed mastercard credit, a Vente Mocha with two shots of caramel is pretty insignificant when compared to the actions of wikileaks in exposing massive government injustice and fraud.


my 2c

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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby Dark567 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:09 pm UTC

Negated wrote:Since transactions have to go through their server, it is quite likely that the DDOS attacks can affect the customers.
They are on separate servers. Hell, most credit card transactions actually go through a separate network called BANKnet that is (mostly)independent of the internet.
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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:11 pm UTC

Dangermouse wrote:I'm going to be an obnoxious moralist, but it seems that Joe C. Publics inability for today to buy, on borrowed mastercard credit, a Vente Mocha with two shots of caramel is pretty insignificant when compared to the actions of wikileaks in exposing massive government injustice and fraud.


my 2c

Pretty much every financial transaction I do goes through my credit card. My apartment heating gas, electric, internet (which is vital for a student, I would argue), car gas and upkeep, groceries, etc. Just because you don't like using a card doesn't mean you get to tell other people how to use theirs.
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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby Triangle_Man » Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:23 pm UTC

Personally, I don't have a credit card and I'd need a damn good reason to change that; I'm worried about debt, and I like having cash as a visual reminder of how much money I have as well as all the pretty pictures on it.

I love the feel of money...

Anyways, I'm getting a real kick out of this story. Think this could be the new form of protest for the internet age?
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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby Technical Ben » Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:30 pm UTC

All we need now is a cyborg brain and we get a "stand alone complex".

(Not really. Had no idea what that show was on about, I doubt it did either, but it had some cool animation.)
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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby Xeio » Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:33 pm UTC

Well, glad my debit card is a visa and my credit card is a mastercard. Woo?

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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby Dauric » Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:45 pm UTC

Dangermouse wrote:I'm going to be an obnoxious moralist, but it seems that Joe C. Publics inability for today to buy, on borrowed mastercard credit, a Vente Mocha with two shots of caramel is pretty insignificant when compared to the actions of wikileaks in exposing massive government injustice and fraud.


my 2c


Your 2C lacks imagination.

I've been in a position where flying back from a training seminar in L.A., somewhere between the swag the company gave me and the training manuals I needed to do my job, they put my luggage -juust- over the luggage on my ticket (like a quarter or half a pound), which meant that I had to pay an extra $100 fee to board the plane. Now I was at this training seminar because I had just stared a new job, after being unemployed for a long time. I had nothing in the bank, and only one credit card with any available credit on it. Now at the time this kind of nonsense wasn't going on, so I paid the fee and moved on. If that had happened today (and if my one and only card was MC, which at the time it wasn't) I'd be cooling my heels in L.A.X. until MasterCard could get out from under that DDOS.

If you've never been to L.A.X. ... well, to (probably mis)quote Lewis Black:

If you're thinking of flying to L.A.: Take a pencil out, Sharpen it, And stick it in your eye. You'll feel a lot better -and- you'll get to wear a jaunty eye patch.


L.A.X. is not somewhere where sitting and cooling your heels is conducive to continued good health and mental well-being.
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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby The Reaper » Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:47 pm UTC

Technical Ben wrote:All we need now is a cyborg brain and we get a "stand alone complex".
What separates the Stand Alone Complex from normal copycat behavior is that there is no real originator of the copied action, but merely a rumor or an illusion that supposedly performed the copied action. There may be real people who are labeled as the originator, but in reality, no one started the original behavior. And in Stand Alone Complex, the facade just has to exist in the minds of the public. In other words, a potential copycat just has to believe the copied behavior happened from an originator-when it really did not. The result is an epidemic of copied behavior having a net effect of purpose. One could say that the Stand Alone Complex is mass hysteria over nothing-yet causing an overall change in social structure.
Rumor: Wikileaks is going to bring down america! we must stop it!
Result: Wikileaks lets all the pro-government crazies come out of the woodwork and destroy some of the founding principles of america, like being able to talk shit about your government, particularly if its true.

Seems apt.
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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby Kizyr » Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:47 pm UTC

Oregonaut wrote:Really? ...Really?
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Technically speaking, the cables released are still considered classified--even if they're freely and/or legally available. So if you're using a government computer or network, then according to the agency's rules, you're not allowed to view any information you don't have clearance for.

You can probably view them on your own time, but... the agency is probably required to tell you that you can't. It's sort of a CYA thing on their end.

Most of the Fed workers I know have gotten the same instructions. I'm in a gray area since I'm---well, on second thought, I'm on the darker end of gray and should probably inform the rest of my team about this same thing. KF
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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby DaPwnzlord » Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:41 pm UTC

Where do I sign up to join this protest? :D Links anyone?

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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby Sero » Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:04 pm UTC

DaPwnzlord wrote:Where do I sign up to join this protest? :D Links anyone?


IANAL, but, this 'protest' is illegal, a criminal act, in many areas. Sje46 was talking about some IRC channels he was spectating this event in, though, if you're interested in watching events proceed.

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irc.anonops.net #operationpayback is the main discussion one. You need to be registerred to talk though.
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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby Nordic Einar » Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:29 pm UTC

Sero wrote:
DaPwnzlord wrote:Where do I sign up to join this protest? :D Links anyone?


IANAL, but, this 'protest' is illegal, a criminal act, in many areas.


Many protests (especially the effective ones) are. Hence "civil disobedience".

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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby Ortus » Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:30 pm UTC

If only this could be done with words interlaced with the right touch of action, as opposed to just action.
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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:46 pm UTC

Nordic Einar wrote:
Sero wrote:
DaPwnzlord wrote:Where do I sign up to join this protest? :D Links anyone?


IANAL, but, this 'protest' is illegal, a criminal act, in many areas.


Many protests (especially the effective ones) are. Hence "civil disobedience".

The difference is most civil disobedience is aimed at affecting those in charge. A strike affects the business owner, a protest/march sends a message to people who make laws. What's happening here is a message that principally affects people, negatively, who have no relationship with the events at all, and have no recourse for dealing with the effects of the attack.
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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby sje46 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:33 pm UTC

Visa.com has been taken down.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/12/08/vi ... rs/?hpt=T2

Xeio wrote:Well, glad my debit card is a visa and my credit card is a mastercard. Woo?


lul.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/12/08/vi ... rs/?hpt=T2

DaPwnzlord wrote:Where do I sign up to join this protest? :D Links anyone?


Sero gave you the server and channel name. You can join #setup if you really want to know how to get the software to DDoS but I'm not going to tell you how. But simply being in the channel is not illegal.
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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby Dauric » Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:56 pm UTC

sje46 wrote:Visa.com has been taken down.


Well there goes getting groceries tonight. Thanks Anonymous.
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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby Nordic Einar » Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:02 pm UTC

I've had absolutely no problem using either my Visa or Mastercard tonight. Not being able to access their websites has done nothing to stop my cards from working.

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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby Dark567 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:03 pm UTC

Dauric wrote:
sje46 wrote:Visa.com has been taken down.


Well there goes getting groceries tonight. Thanks Anonymous.

I really doubt it will effect your cards operation....
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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby Dauric » Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:10 pm UTC

Nordic Einar wrote:I've had absolutely no problem using either my Visa or Mastercard tonight. Not being able to access their websites has done nothing to stop my cards from working.

Okay, I'd been hearing conflicting reports about what was affected. Didn't really feel like waiting in line if half the transactions were going to be stalled.

Also, I can't imagine how MC or Visa would -actually- be inconvenienced if it didn't shut down processing, I mean the corporate site may be an annoyance but it's hardly a barrier to the application process to have it down when retail businesses that offer credit, and banks usually have separate non-consumer sites to apply through.
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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby Telchar » Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:23 pm UTC

Unless you pay your bills through their site but most people I'd imagine have cards through their bank and so could make payments via their bank.

Really it seems more of a "We're watching you" maneuver with little impact on the day to day business of the company.
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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby Dark567 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:45 pm UTC

Telchar wrote:Unless you pay your bills through their site but most people I'd imagine have cards through their bank and so could make payments via their bank.

Really it seems more of a "We're watching you" maneuver with little impact on the day to day business of the company.

You can't actually pay bill through Mastercards or Visas sites, they don't sell cards directly to people(unlike American Express or Discover) they sell their services to banks, who than issue the cards. There website is mostly a bunch of corporate information, for consumer stuff, it mostly just talks about the services they offer through banks, and the point you too a bank that you can get a mastercard at.
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Yakk wrote:The question the thought experiment I posted is aimed at answering: When falling in a black hole, do you see the entire universe's future history train-car into your ass, or not?

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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby SPsnow02 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:54 am UTC

Surprised it hasn't been brought up yet, but paypal is down right now too.
Rawr!

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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby sje46 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:03 am UTC

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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby Xeio » Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:59 am UTC

sje46 wrote:
Xeio wrote:Well, glad my debit card is a visa and my credit card is a mastercard. Woo?
lul.
Oh shi-
:P

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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby Box Boy » Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:57 pm UTC

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New Operation in action, seems as though now that they have the worlds attention they're trying to cause as many headaches for governments as they can by covering the stuff no-one else will.
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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby Chfan » Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:45 pm UTC

I can get behind "talk more about the leaked stuff" rather than "attack the companies who decided to pull out and have the right to."
Just FYI, the guy isn't avatar isn't me. But he seems pretty cool.

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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby TheKrikkitWars » Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:54 pm UTC

Belial wrote:
Izawwlgood wrote:I'm a bit surprised to see people in agreement here; MasterCard customers, card holders, have done nothing wrong.


How exactly do you suggest striking at a company without inconveniencing its customers? If the customers are all perfectly happy and still using the service, the service won't feel the pain.


Burn their offices down... mastercard being a big company has disaster planning in place to keep service in place should such a thing happen, but their building being burned down would still be a bit of a loss.

Ironic that something so drastic would actually be less inconvenient to the customers eh?
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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby torgos » Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:29 pm UTC

Dangermouse wrote:I'm going to be an obnoxious moralist, but it seems that Joe C. Publics inability for today to buy, on borrowed mastercard credit, a Vente Mocha with two shots of caramel is pretty insignificant when compared to the actions of wikileaks in exposing massive government injustice and fraud.


If by 'expose massive government injustice and fraud', you mean "reveal that the State Department is doing pretty much exactly what it says it's doing, only less politely than in public", which isn't exactly news. The only thing that really raised my eyebrow was diplomats collecting biometric data, and that's not exactly secretly bombing Cambodia. I'd be surprised if US diplomats were the only ones doing this. The leaks are probably a little more embarrassing to leaders of Arab countries.

And then there's the "how to launch an attack on the United States" document, which I can't think of a good reason to have released.

Wikileaks didn't do much other than reveal to the public that diplomats have salty tongues in private. The upshot of this is that diplomats will likely give less honest assessments, and the government will more tightly control who has access to information, which will make it more difficult to obtain information about more serious dubious government activities in the future. I'm not sure Wikileaks has a strong grasp on the concept of 'discretion'.

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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby D.B. » Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:26 pm UTC

Off topic post

Triangle_Man wrote:Personally, I don't have a credit card and I'd need a damn good reason to change that; I'm worried about debt, and I like having cash as a visual reminder of how much money I have as well as all the pretty pictures on it.


Then you've probably got zero credit history. It's my understanding that transactions made with debit cards don't usually count for that (anyone know if this is correct?). And with no credit history you may run into problems late in life should you want a loan for a house, etc. They're also bloody useful if something happens to your regular debit card. I had my bank details stolen a year or two ago, and had to freeze most of my accounts to get it sorted. They didn't get my credit card details though, so i was able to use that to buy food, etc, until my new account was working.

Just because you've got a credit card doesn't mean you need to get horribly in debt. I've had mine set up to automatically pay off the entire bill at the end of every month - so unless I know I've got money in the bank, I don't buy stuff with it. Easy.

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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby PhatPhungus » Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:01 pm UTC

D.B. wrote:If by 'expose massive government injustice and fraud', you mean "reveal that the State Department is doing pretty much exactly what it says it's doing, only less politely than in public", which isn't exactly news.


Or that that pfizer conducted an illegal study in Nigeria and then blackmailed their attroney general into not doing anything about it or that Dyncorp, a security contractor in Afghanistan, hosted a party for Afghan police where a little boy was pimped to the highest bidder.
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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby Box Boy » Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:42 pm UTC

Torgos Status:

[]Not told.
[]Told.
[X]GODDAMN TOLD.
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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby TaintedDeity » Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:49 pm UTC

Actually, torgos wrote that.
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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby johnny_7713 » Sun Dec 12, 2010 9:06 pm UTC

D.B. wrote:Off topic post

Triangle_Man wrote:Personally, I don't have a credit card and I'd need a damn good reason to change that; I'm worried about debt, and I like having cash as a visual reminder of how much money I have as well as all the pretty pictures on it.


Then you've probably got zero credit history. It's my understanding that transactions made with debit cards don't usually count for that (anyone know if this is correct?). And with no credit history you may run into problems late in life should you want a loan for a house, etc. They're also bloody useful if something happens to your regular debit card. I had my bank details stolen a year or two ago, and had to freeze most of my accounts to get it sorted. They didn't get my credit card details though, so i was able to use that to buy food, etc, until my new account was working.

Just because you've got a credit card doesn't mean you need to get horribly in debt. I've had mine set up to automatically pay off the entire bill at the end of every month - so unless I know I've got money in the bank, I don't buy stuff with it. Easy.


Perhaps Triangle Man doesn't live in the US? Credit history appears to be an American thing. In the Netherlands proof of income and not being registered at the Credit Registration Bureau (which registers if you have a problem with paying off debts / are bankrupt ) is enough.

ION: A 16-year old boy was arrested in the Netherlands this week for allegedly being part of the Anonymous attack. In response the websites of the police and the public prosecution service got taken down by (I assume) DDOS attacks.

torgos
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Re: Mastercard 'hit by Anonymous Wikileaks revenge attacks'

Postby torgos » Sun Dec 12, 2010 9:16 pm UTC

PhatPhungus wrote:
D.B. wrote:If by 'expose massive government injustice and fraud', you mean "reveal that the State Department is doing pretty much exactly what it says it's doing, only less politely than in public", which isn't exactly news.


Or thatthat pfizer conducted an illegal study in Nigeria and then blackmailed their attroney general into not doing anything about it or that ]Dyncorp, a security contractor in Afghanistan, hosted a party for Afghan police where a little boy was pimped to the highest bidder.


Ok, my 'wikileaks revelations' are a little out of date.
The secret ingredient is...love!? Who's been screwing with this thing?


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