WikiLeaks reveals Israel destroyed Syrian Reactor

Seen something interesting in the news or on the intertubes? Discuss it here.

Moderators: Zamfir, Hawknc, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
sourmìlk
If I can't complain, can I at least express my fear?
Posts: 6393
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:53 pm UTC
Location: permanently in the wrong
Contact:

WikiLeaks reveals Israel destroyed Syrian Reactor

Postby sourmìlk » Sun Dec 26, 2010 10:49 pm UTC

JTA wrote:A confidential memo from Condoleezza Rice to State Department representatives around the world confirmed that Israel destroyed a Syrian nuclear reactor, a cable leaked to WikiLeaks says.

...

The document sent was sent on April 25, 2008, by Rice, then secretary of state. It read, in part, "On September 6, 2007, Israel destroyed a nuclear reactor Syria was clandestinely constructing, we judge with North Korean assistance."


Israel to world: you're welcome.
Terry Pratchett wrote:The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.

User avatar
aleflamedyud
wants your cookies
Posts: 3307
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:50 pm UTC
Location: The Central Bureaucracy

Re: WikiLeaks reveals Israel destroyed Syrian Reactor

Postby aleflamedyud » Sun Dec 26, 2010 11:00 pm UTC

And he destroyed a bomb factory /
Ain't nobody was glad /
The bombs were meant for him /
He was supposed to feel bad!

Neighborhood bully...
"With kindness comes naïveté. Courage becomes foolhardiness. And dedication has no reward. If you can't accept any of that, you are not fit to be a graduate student."

User avatar
Hooch
Posts: 233
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:00 am UTC
Location: Round Rock, Texas
Contact:

Re: WikiLeaks reveals Israel destroyed Syrian Reactor

Postby Hooch » Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:09 am UTC

Do you have a link? I'm sure that it's an actual leak, but I'd like to see more details.

At face value, I'm a bit skeptical. The reactor destruction is understandable, but they seem quick to claim that North Korea helped the construction in the first place, especially in 2007. Feel free to prove me wrong (I mean it), but I don't recall North Korea entering the "threat" realm until 2008-2009. At least, that's when unnerving actions by North Korea became publicly visible.
LOVE ME
djntd.bandcamp.com
youtube.com/user/DJNTDOfficial

User avatar
sourmìlk
If I can't complain, can I at least express my fear?
Posts: 6393
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:53 pm UTC
Location: permanently in the wrong
Contact:

Re: WikiLeaks reveals Israel destroyed Syrian Reactor

Postby sourmìlk » Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:29 am UTC

I remember north korea being a threat far earlier than that:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Kore ... estruction

2006 it did a successful nuclear test.
Terry Pratchett wrote:The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.

User avatar
Hawknc
Oompa Loompa of SCIENCE!
Posts: 6986
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:14 am UTC
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: WikiLeaks reveals Israel destroyed Syrian Reactor

Postby Hawknc » Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:32 am UTC

JTA, to my knowledge, isn't one of the papers that the cables are being leaked to, and they don't cite any other sources. I also can't find any cables on the site relating to any incident like that.

The Reaper
Posts: 4008
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:37 am UTC
Location: San Antonio, Tx
Contact:

Re: WikiLeaks reveals Israel destroyed Syrian Reactor

Postby The Reaper » Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:48 am UTC

I'm still fine with people having reactors, and still against them weaponizing the leftovers.

Glass Fractal
Posts: 497
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 2:53 am UTC

Re: WikiLeaks reveals Israel destroyed Syrian Reactor

Postby Glass Fractal » Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:51 am UTC

Hooch wrote:Do you have a link? I'm sure that it's an actual leak, but I'd like to see more details.


The cable hasn't been leaked by wikileaks yet.

Lycur
Posts: 470
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:06 pm UTC
Location: Nutopia

Re: WikiLeaks reveals Israel destroyed Syrian Reactor

Postby Lycur » Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:53 am UTC

Hawknc wrote:JTA, to my knowledge, isn't one of the papers that the cables are being leaked to, and they don't cite any other sources. I also can't find any cables on the site relating to any incident like that.


The Article wrote:The cable, which has not yet been published, was reported by the Israeli newspaper Yediot Acharonot before its official publication on the website.

User avatar
Hawknc
Oompa Loompa of SCIENCE!
Posts: 6986
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:14 am UTC
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: WikiLeaks reveals Israel destroyed Syrian Reactor

Postby Hawknc » Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:56 am UTC

Somehow missed that, thanks.

User avatar
Maurog
Posts: 842
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:58 am UTC

Re: WikiLeaks reveals Israel destroyed Syrian Reactor

Postby Maurog » Mon Dec 27, 2010 5:16 am UTC

The document was sent on April 25, 2008, one day after the whole thing was "revealed" by Washington Post. Srsly guys, this is not the shocking revelation you are looking for.
24/04/08 Washington Post wrote:A video taken inside a secret Syrian facility last summer convinced the Israeli government and the Bush administration that North Korea was helping to construct a reactor similar...
The word is confirms, not reveals.
Slay the living! Raise the dead! Paint the sky in crimson red!

User avatar
Triangle_Man
WINNING
Posts: 1500
Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 8:41 pm UTC
Location: CANADA

Re: WikiLeaks reveals Israel destroyed Syrian Reactor

Postby Triangle_Man » Mon Dec 27, 2010 5:59 am UTC

Won't this cause more problems with relations in the Middle East?
I really should be working right now, but somehow I don't have the energy.

The Mighty Thesaurus wrote:My moral system allows me to bitch slap you for typing that.

User avatar
sourmìlk
If I can't complain, can I at least express my fear?
Posts: 6393
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:53 pm UTC
Location: permanently in the wrong
Contact:

Re: WikiLeaks reveals Israel destroyed Syrian Reactor

Postby sourmìlk » Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:13 am UTC

Won't this cause more problems with relations in the Middle East?


Not really. Syria isn't even going to admit it's a nuclear reactor. And even if it did cause problems, the alternative is having an unstable country with known hostilities towards Israel to have nuclear weapons, which is obviously not an option.
Terry Pratchett wrote:The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.

User avatar
legopelle
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 7:07 pm UTC
Location: Directly over the center of the earth.

Re: WikiLeaks reveals Israel destroyed Syrian Reactor

Postby legopelle » Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:55 pm UTC

The Reaper wrote:I'm still fine with people having reactors, and still against them weaponizing the leftovers.


Siggin' in process...
The Reaper wrote:I'm still fine with people having reactors, and still against them weaponizing the leftovers.

Walter Bishop wrote:Why would anyone kill a scientist? What have we ever done?

User avatar
Hooch
Posts: 233
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:00 am UTC
Location: Round Rock, Texas
Contact:

Re: WikiLeaks reveals Israel destroyed Syrian Reactor

Postby Hooch » Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:18 am UTC

sourmìlk wrote:I remember north korea being a threat far earlier than that:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Kore ... estruction

2006 it did a successful nuclear test.


I suppose it's my bad: by "threat realm," I meant the point at which we actually take them seriously. I saw a brief spurt of news about the nuclear test, and then this news went dead, with only sporadic stories until roughly 2008-2009. One might argue that the lack of news on them for a few years indicates the need for secrecy, but it makes me wonder if powerful governments will inform people when they consider countries legitimate (as in "hostilities possible close to or in our official territories" legitimate) threats...which I hope they will do.

It's probably another point for debate, anyway. On one end, it seems right to inform people that their livelihood may truly be at stake*. On the other end, there were so many signs leading up to 9/11 -- immigration and credit card records, tapped comm lines, etc. -- that the government failed to truly capitalize on.

*The "Duck and Cover" videos don't count.
LOVE ME
djntd.bandcamp.com
youtube.com/user/DJNTDOfficial

User avatar
Pez Dispens3r
is not a stick figure.
Posts: 2079
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:08 am UTC
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: WikiLeaks reveals Israel destroyed Syrian Reactor

Postby Pez Dispens3r » Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:21 am UTC

Hooch wrote:I suppose it's my bad: by "threat realm," I meant the point at which we actually take them seriously. I saw a brief spurt of news about the nuclear test, and then this news went dead, with only sporadic stories until roughly 2008-2009. One might argue that the lack of news on them for a few years indicates the need for secrecy, but it makes me wonder if powerful governments will inform people when they consider countries legitimate (as in "hostilities possible close to or in our official territories" legitimate) threats...which I hope they will do.

Tensions have not consistently been this high over the last decade, but North Korea has been 'taken seriously' since 1945. The nuclear issue came up in 1994 and 2002, though. Perhaps your news-reading habits were different back then?
Mighty Jalapeno wrote:I feel like you're probably an ocelot, and I feel like I want to eat you. Feeling is fun!
this isn't my cow

User avatar
sourmìlk
If I can't complain, can I at least express my fear?
Posts: 6393
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:53 pm UTC
Location: permanently in the wrong
Contact:

Re: WikiLeaks reveals Israel destroyed Syrian Reactor

Postby sourmìlk » Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:09 am UTC

Tensions have not consistently been this high over the last decade, but North Korea has been 'taken seriously' since 1945. The nuclear issue came up in 1994 and 2002, though. Perhaps your news-reading habits were different back then?


Maybe he just means "taken seriously" as in "considered a legitimate nuclear threat"? Really it's so subjective that there's no way to determine when North Korea as a nuclear power was "taken seriously." That said, we certainly take Iran seriously and they aren't going to be doing a nuclear test any time soon.
Terry Pratchett wrote:The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.

User avatar
Hooch
Posts: 233
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:00 am UTC
Location: Round Rock, Texas
Contact:

Re: WikiLeaks reveals Israel destroyed Syrian Reactor

Postby Hooch » Thu Dec 30, 2010 5:15 am UTC

sourmìlk wrote:
Tensions have not consistently been this high over the last decade, but North Korea has been 'taken seriously' since 1945. The nuclear issue came up in 1994 and 2002, though. Perhaps your news-reading habits were different back then?


Maybe he just means "taken seriously" as in "considered a legitimate nuclear threat"? Really it's so subjective that there's no way to determine when North Korea as a nuclear power was "taken seriously." That said, we certainly take Iran seriously and they aren't going to be doing a nuclear test any time soon.


This might help: Were you afraid, even in the least bit, of North Korea before 2008?
LOVE ME
djntd.bandcamp.com
youtube.com/user/DJNTDOfficial

User avatar
sourmìlk
If I can't complain, can I at least express my fear?
Posts: 6393
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:53 pm UTC
Location: permanently in the wrong
Contact:

Re: WikiLeaks reveals Israel destroyed Syrian Reactor

Postby sourmìlk » Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:29 am UTC

This might help: Were you afraid, even in the least bit, of North Korea before 2008?


Before 2008 I was 13. So probably not?
Terry Pratchett wrote:The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.

User avatar
Brooklynxman
Because I'm Awesome
Posts: 609
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:27 pm UTC
Location: Here
Contact:

Re: WikiLeaks reveals Israel destroyed Syrian Reactor

Postby Brooklynxman » Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:26 am UTC

I'd actually be surprised if this changes anything. Syria likely knew who blew it up, other arabic countries that are Syria's allies were probably told it was blown up by the Mossad as a Zionist conspiracy.

Basically anyone who would have acted due to this probably already knew about it and who did it. The only difference now is that since it is in the open the Syrians get to openly complain about it. Mean neighbor tried to build big scary weapon, Israel did what its always done for the sake of its own survival, end of story.
We figure out what all this means, then do something large and violent

The thing about changing the world...once you do it the world's all different.

I'm Angel. I beat the bad guys.

Spoiler:
Image

General_Norris
Posts: 1399
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:10 pm UTC

Re: WikiLeaks reveals Israel destroyed Syrian Reactor

Postby General_Norris » Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:23 am UTC

Brooklynxman wrote:Syria likely knew who blew it up,

You know, it's this kind of stuff where I think that Wikileaks can be a huge problem. What if they didn't know who did it? What if Wikileaks endangers an important spionage mission? They are not capable of understanding what causes harm when released and what doesn't when it comes to those topics.

User avatar
Zamfir
I built a novelty castle, the irony was lost on some.
Posts: 7594
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:43 pm UTC
Location: Nederland

Re: WikiLeaks reveals Israel destroyed Syrian Reactor

Postby Zamfir » Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:07 pm UTC

General_Norris wrote:
Brooklynxman wrote:Syria likely knew who blew it up,

You know, it's this kind of stuff where I think that Wikileaks can be a huge problem. What if they didn't know who did it?

Uhm, the building was destroyed in an airstrike by Israeli jet fighters. Hardly a covert operation. The only "secret" until now was why they bombed it, and the cable confirms they bombed it because they thought it was a reactor. Which was of course what everybody thought anyway, since that would be pretty much the only reason the US would allow them do go ahead with the airstrike.

icanus
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 1:19 pm UTC
Location: in England now abed

Re: WikiLeaks reveals Israel destroyed Syrian Reactor

Postby icanus » Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:21 pm UTC

General_Norris wrote:
Brooklynxman wrote:Syria likely knew who blew it up,

You know, it's this kind of stuff where I think that Wikileaks can be a huge problem. What if they didn't know who did it?

The only other country they could have conceivably thought it was is the US (which in the minds of half of the regimes in the region amounts to much the same thing). Even if they were poorly informed enough to think it was one of their other neighbours, that'd just be an excuse for them to retaliate against an innocent party.
General_Norris wrote:What if Wikileaks endangers an important spionage mission? They are not capable of understanding what causes harm when released and what doesn't when it comes to those topics.

Endangering covert missions is kind of the whole point - the idea being that if they can't be kept secret governments will be a bit less eager to go blow other people's shit up, or at least have to have some pretty good justifications ready to satisfy their populace and the international community when they do.

User avatar
Dream
WINNING
Posts: 4338
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:20 pm UTC
Location: The Hollow Scene Epic

Re: WikiLeaks reveals Israel destroyed Syrian Reactor

Postby Dream » Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:34 pm UTC

Zamfir wrote:The only "secret" until now was why they bombed it, and the cable confirms they bombed it because they thought it was a reactor. Which was of course what everybody thought anyway, since that would be pretty much the only reason the US would allow them do go ahead with the airstrike.

Presumably it was a nuclear facility of some kind, but I don't know that it was a reactor. If Iran has Syria on as short a leash as everyone assumes, would they allow nuclear provocation in their client state right when they were playing their own game of nuclear chicken with the US and Israel? I'd guess that it was some kind of research facility. A full blown reactor would not have been a secret, nor would a heavy industry processing facility. I would imagine though, that a nuclear laboratory would be both feasible and considered a target worth bombing by Israel.
I knew a woman once, but she died soon after.

General_Norris
Posts: 1399
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:10 pm UTC

Re: WikiLeaks reveals Israel destroyed Syrian Reactor

Postby General_Norris » Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:42 pm UTC

I know everyone knew who did it, it was not subtle as is this kind of mission. The problem I have is that they are going to release documents that say "John is a spy" and John is going to get killed and all the valuable intelligence will be lost.

icanus wrote:Endangering covert missions is kind of the whole point - the idea being that if they can't be kept secret governments will be a bit less eager to go blow other people's shit up, or at least have to have some pretty good justifications ready to satisfy their populace and the international community when they do.

I know it's the point, it's just a very bad one. It misses the point of espionage and is akin to breaking guns so the US army is less eager to blow other people up. Espionage is not only going to get done, Wikileaks or not, it's something neccesary.

User avatar
Iulus Cofield
WINNING
Posts: 2917
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:31 am UTC

Re: WikiLeaks reveals Israel destroyed Syrian Reactor

Postby Iulus Cofield » Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:23 pm UTC

Maurog wrote:The document was sent on April 25, 2008, one day after the whole thing was "revealed" by Washington Post. Srsly guys, this is not the shocking revelation you are looking for.
24/04/08 Washington Post wrote:A video taken inside a secret Syrian facility last summer convinced the Israeli government and the Bush administration that North Korea was helping to construct a reactor similar...
The word is confirms, not reveals.


Syria has a nuclear reactor =/= Israel bombed a Syrian nuclear reactor.

Some other people in this thread have implied that they already knew Israel had bombed this particular Syrian building, but not that it was a nuclear reactor. So...how many people here are in the IDF?

yedidyak
Posts: 954
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:24 pm UTC
Location: Israel

Re: WikiLeaks reveals Israel destroyed Syrian Reactor

Postby yedidyak » Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:03 am UTC

Iulus Cofield wrote:
Maurog wrote:The document was sent on April 25, 2008, one day after the whole thing was "revealed" by Washington Post. Srsly guys, this is not the shocking revelation you are looking for.
24/04/08 Washington Post wrote:A video taken inside a secret Syrian facility last summer convinced the Israeli government and the Bush administration that North Korea was helping to construct a reactor similar...
The word is confirms, not reveals.


Syria has a nuclear reactor =/= Israel bombed a Syrian nuclear reactor.

Some other people in this thread have implied that they already knew Israel had bombed this particular Syrian building, but not that it was a nuclear reactor. So...how many people here are in the IDF?


They did find Israeli fuel tanks dropped into turkey at the time. And its pretty much admitted by Israel unofficially, with Netenyahu then (at the time leader of the oppostion) saying 'I cant say what happened, but I was in on it, and it was huge!'

And I am in the IDF, and I do know that the IAF did something big that day but not from personal experience.

EDIT - Didnt the UN inspect the place, find uranium, and get kicked out?

User avatar
Maurog
Posts: 842
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:58 am UTC

Re: WikiLeaks reveals Israel destroyed Syrian Reactor

Postby Maurog » Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:34 pm UTC

24/04/08 Washington Post wrote:A video taken inside a secret Syrian facility last summer convinced the Israeli government and the Bush administration that North Korea was helping to construct a reactor similar...

...It played a pivotal role in Israel's decision to bomb the facility late at night last Sept. 6, a move that was publicly denounced by Damascus but not by Washington...

Here is the link to the article again, and here is the whole text for those who just don't follow links out of principle:
Spoiler:
A video taken inside a secret Syrian facility last summer convinced the Israeli government and the Bush administration that North Korea was helping to construct a reactor similar to one that produces plutonium for North Korea's nuclear arsenal, according to senior U.S. officials who said it would be shared with lawmakers today.

The officials said the video of the remote site, code-named Al Kibar by the Syrians, shows North Koreans inside. It played a pivotal role in Israel's decision to bomb the facility late at night last Sept. 6, a move that was publicly denounced by Damascus but not by Washington.

Sources familiar with the video say it also shows that the Syrian reactor core's design is the same as that of the North Korean reactor at Yongbyon, including a virtually identical configuration and number of holes for fuel rods. It shows "remarkable resemblances inside and out to Yongbyon," a U.S. intelligence official said. A nuclear weapons specialist called the video "very, very damning."

Nuclear weapons analysts and U.S. officials predicted that CIA Director Michael V. Hayden's planned disclosures to Capitol Hill could complicate U.S. efforts to improve relations with North Korea as a way to stop its nuclear weapons program. They come as factions inside the administration and in Congress have been battling over the merits of a nuclear-related deal with North Korea.

Syrian Ambassador Imad Moustapha yesterday angrily denounced the U.S. and Israeli assertions. "If they show a video, remember that the U.S. went to the U.N. Security Council and displayed evidence and images about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. I hope the American people will not be as gullible this time around," he said.

U.S. officials said that Israel shared the video with the United States before the Sept. 6 bombing, after Bush administration officials expressed skepticism last spring that the facility, visible by satellite since 2001, was a nuclear reactor built with North Korea's assistance. Israel has a nuclear weapons arsenal that it has never declared.

But beginning today, intelligence officials will tell members of the House and Senate intelligence, armed services and foreign relations committees that the Syrian facility was not yet fully operational and that there was no uranium for the reactor and no indication of fuel capability, according to U.S. officials and intelligence sources.

David Albright, president of Institute for Science and International Security (ISIS) and a former U.N. weapons inspector, said the absence of such evidence warrants skepticism that the reactor was part of an active weapons program.

"The United States and Israel have not identified any Syrian plutonium separation facilities or nuclear weaponization facilities," he said. "The lack of any such facilities gives little confidence that the reactor is part of an active nuclear weapons program. The apparent lack of fuel, either imported or indigenously produced, also is curious and lowers confidence that Syria has a nuclear weapons program."

U.S. intelligence officials will also tell the lawmakers that Syria is not rebuilding a reactor at the Al Kibar site. "The successful engagement of North Korea in the six-party talks means that it was unlikely to have supplied Syria with such facilities or nuclear materials after the reactor site was destroyed," Albright said. "Indeed, there is little, if any, evidence that cooperation between Syria and North Korea extended beyond the date of the destruction of the reactor."

The timing of the congressional briefing is nonetheless awkward for the Bush administration's diplomatic initiative to persuade North Korea to abandon its nuclear program and permanently disable the reactor at Yongbyon. The CIA's hand was forced, officials said, because influential lawmakers had threatened to cut off funding for the U.S. diplomatic effort unless they received a full account of what the administration knew.

Also, the terms of a tentative U.S.-North Korean deal require that North Korean officials acknowledge U.S. evidence about its help with the Syrian program, and so the disclosures to Congress are meant to preempt what North Korea may eventually say.

Following talks with the South Korean president last weekend, President Bush said that it was premature to make a judgment about whether North Korea was willing to follow through with a commitment to publicly declare its nuclear-related programs, materials and facilities.

Washington and Pyongyang still differ over what should be included in that declaration, a State Department official said. Sung Kim, the State Department director of the Office of Korean Affairs, is in Pyongyang for discussions about the contents.

Syria's top envoy to Washington said the CIA briefings were meant to undermine diplomatic efforts with North Korea, not to confront Syria. Why, Moustapha said, are "they repeating the same lies and fabrications when they were planning to attack Iraq? The reason is simple: It's about North Korea, not Syria. The neoconservative elements are having the upper hand."

He added, "We do not want to plan to acquire nuclear technology as we understand the reality of this world and have seen what the U.S. did to Iraq even when it did not have a nuclear program. So we are not going to give them a pretext to attack Syria."

Before the site was bombed, the facility included a tall, boxy structure like those used to house gas-graphite reactors and was located seven miles north of the desert village of At Tibnah in the Dayr az Zawr region, 90 miles from the Iraqi border, according to photographs released by the ISIS, a nonprofit research group.

The White House and the CIA declined to comment on the briefings.
Slay the living! Raise the dead! Paint the sky in crimson red!

User avatar
Iulus Cofield
WINNING
Posts: 2917
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:31 am UTC

Re: WikiLeaks reveals Israel destroyed Syrian Reactor

Postby Iulus Cofield » Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:39 pm UTC

Huh, I coulda swore that paragraph wasn't there yesterday.


Return to “News & Articles”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests