Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

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Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby netcrusher88 » Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:32 am UTC

The most counterproductive gay advocacy group ever formed, GOProud, has been accepted as a sponsor by the Conservative Political Action Conference (no word I know of on whether they'll be allowed to speak this time but they'll be on the planning committee). And as a result, CPAC is imploding (WND broke the story):
WorldNetDaily wrote:Two of the nation’s [most outspoken anti-gay] organizations, the Family Research Council and Concerned Women for America, are refusing to attend the Conservative Political Action Conference in February because a homosexual activist group, GOProud, has been invited.

FRC and CWA join the American Principles Project, American Values, Capital Research Center, the Center for Military Readiness, Liberty Counsel, and the National Organization for Marriage in withdrawing from CPAC.

I quote WND only because they broke the news - spare them the ad revenue and read about it somewhere else. ThinkProgress has some commentary on it along with the rest of the political blagosphere.

This isn't exactly a new trend - it began with their (silenced) attendance at the 2010 CPAC - but it's news.
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Re: Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby Arancaytar » Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:39 am UTC

Doesn't sound counterproductive to me. :p
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Re: Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby Korrente » Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:42 am UTC

It's counterproductive since their goal is to be counterproductive. Anticounterproductivity.

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Re: Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby Jahoclave » Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:44 am UTC

Hey, maybe they can invite some more groups that'll piss off those other groups. I've got it. Have Oprah give a speech. Oh, and a muslim. Man, this could be the best CPAC ever.

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Re: Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby netcrusher88 » Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:47 am UTC

Get Grayson. He might trigger some kind of hate feedback loop critical mass and vaporize the whole conference.
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Re: Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby Arancaytar » Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:07 am UTC

Invite Lisa Murkowski. That should sting the tea-partiers a little. Maybe Sarah Palin would even refuse to attend!
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Re: Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby The Mighty Thesaurus » Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:10 am UTC

They should invite Emperor Meiji
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Re: Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby TheKrikkitWars » Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:44 pm UTC

The far-right Americans for Truth about Homosexuality president Peter LaBarbera, who is also boycotting CPAC, finds it “gratifying to to see FRC and CWA respond appropriately to CPAC’s moral sellout of allowing GOProud as a sponsor.” “By bringing in GOProud, CPAC was effectively saying moral opposition to homosexuality is no longer welcome in the conservative movement.”


:D , That is all
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Re: Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby achan1058 » Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:13 pm UTC

TheKrikkitWars wrote:
The far-right Americans for Truth about Homosexuality president Peter LaBarbera, who is also boycotting CPAC, finds it “gratifying to to see FRC and CWA respond appropriately to CPAC’s moral sellout of allowing GOProud as a sponsor.” “By bringing in GOProud, CPAC was effectively saying moral opposition to homosexuality is no longer welcome in the conservative movement.”


:D , That is all
Well, they got that one right about opposition to homosexuality is no longer tolerated in America. I wonder how long would it take for them to realize that the whole conservative movement isn't exactly welcomed in the states neither.

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Re: Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby Chfan » Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:03 pm UTC

achan1058 wrote:I wonder how long would it take for them to realize that the whole conservative movement isn't exactly welcomed in the states neither.


This is a nice thought, but untrue.
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Re: Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby Jahoclave » Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:47 pm UTC

Chfan wrote:
achan1058 wrote:I wonder how long would it take for them to realize that the whole conservative movement isn't exactly welcomed in the states neither.


This is a nice thought, but untrue.

So very, very untrue. Extremely sadly untrue.

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Re: Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby badmartialarts » Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:54 pm UTC

It will be nice to see if 'conservatism' can shake itself back from 'wacky fundamentalist Christian' to 'a political and social philosophy that promotes the maintenance of traditional institutions.'

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Re: Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby firechicago » Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:05 pm UTC

TheKrikkitWars wrote:
The far-right Americans for Truth about Homosexuality president Peter LaBarbera, who is also boycotting CPAC, finds it “gratifying to to see FRC and CWA respond appropriately to CPAC’s moral sellout of allowing GOProud as a sponsor.” “By bringing in GOProud, CPAC was effectively saying moral opposition to homosexuality is no longer welcome in the conservative movement.”


:D , That is all


Inviting a pro-gay rights group != banning all anti-gay rights groups.

Why is it that the Christian Right is so incapable of parsing the difference between "a diversity of opinion on this issue is acceptable" and "your opinion is wrong and unacceptable"?

Seriously, I want to know.

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Re: Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby Xeio » Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:05 pm UTC

firechicago wrote:Seriously, I want to know.
God said so, of course.

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Re: Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby netcrusher88 » Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:07 pm UTC

badmartialarts wrote:It will be nice to see if 'conservatism' can shake itself back from 'wacky fundamentalist Christian' to 'a political and social philosophy that promotes the maintenance of traditional institutions.'

Either you're missing the point or there's some sarcastic wordplay I'm missing here.

Also, I wish this was true:
By bringing in GOProud, CPAC was effectively saying moral opposition to homosexuality is no longer welcome in the conservative movement.
All CPAC is saying is they want GOProud's money, which means GOProud has a lot of money, which means there are a terrifying number of gay people giving to Republicans. I don't call GOProud counterproductive for no reason - they've consistently endorsed anti-gay Republicans (often a bit redundant, that), had Ann Coulter as a speaker at an event, oppose ENDA ("no official position", but that was a two-sentence header on a repost of a "ENDA isn't necessary" and "GUBERMINT TAKIN MAH FREEDOM TO DISCRIMINATE" post), and say gay marriage is a "state issue" which is Republicode for "we oppose it but we recognize there are people we can't say that to while taking their money".

GOProud doesn't even try to pretend to be against "moral opposition to homosexuality".
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Re: Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby The Great Hippo » Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:28 pm UTC

netcrusher88 wrote:I don't call GOProud counterproductive for no reason - they've consistently endorsed anti-gay Republicans (often a bit redundant, that), had Ann Coulter as a speaker at an event, oppose ENDA ("no official position", but that was a two-sentence header on a repost of a "ENDA isn't necessary" and "GUBERMINT TAKIN MAH FREEDOM TO DISCRIMINATE" post), and say gay marriage is a "state issue" which is Republicode for "we oppose it but we recognize there are people we can't say that to while taking their money".
Some of the language you're using here troubles me; I'm not familiar with GOProud, but assuming what you've said is true, I am fine with describing them as counter-productive toward the task of securing homosexual rights--but not counter-productive in general--because that implies that they have an obligation (and, in fact, all homosexuals have an obligation) to be productive toward the task of securing homosexual rights. This plays into a deeper narrative that you see in dialogues such as these--the creation of this mythical 'group narrative', where all members of a group must share the same experiences, and come to the same conclusions--so those members of a group who do not share these views are somehow broken, incomplete, or otherwise fake.

That is to say, assuming what you said is true, I have no trouble loathing GOProud as another organization that opposes homosexual rights; I do have trouble adding an extra bite to the equation on account of the organization being run largely by homosexuals ("shouldn't they know better?"). Belonging to a group with no greater entry prerequisite beyond who you prefer to sleep with does not carry with it any sense of moral obligation--human experience is far too varied and nuance to be pinned down to a single set of possible outcomes. To accuse someone of 'race-treachery' or any other associated identity-based betrayals is to deny the validity of their personal experiences.

Not saying that's what you're doing here, but it's something I've grown wary of, and wanted to point out. I think you meant 'counter-productive' in the sense of 'counter-productive toward homosexual rights' (which I would agree with), and not just counter-productive in general.

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Re: Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby netcrusher88 » Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:29 pm UTC

Counterproductive to civil rights is counterproductive in general. And I have no problem whatsoever assigning an obligation to advocate for gay (etc) rights to an organization which claims to represent the LGBT community and calling them out for it when they don't.
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Re: Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby firechicago » Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:01 am UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:That is to say, assuming what you said is true, I have no trouble loathing GOProud as another organization that opposes homosexual rights; I do have trouble adding an extra bite to the equation on account of the organization being run largely by homosexuals ("shouldn't they know better?"). Belonging to a group with no greater entry prerequisite beyond who you prefer to sleep with does not carry with it any sense of moral obligation--human experience is far too varied and nuance to be pinned down to a single set of possible outcomes. To accuse someone of 'race-treachery' or any other associated identity-based betrayals is to deny the validity of their personal experiences.


I don't think "counter-productive in general" is terribly meaningful as a concept. By definition, counter-productive activity moves you further from your goal. If you don't have a goal, how can something be counter-productive?

That said, I do think "counter-productive" is the wrong term to use for GOProud, because it confuses "gay political action group" with "gay rights group." GOProud is not a group that has ever claimed to be working towards gay rights. Instead, it is a group of gays coming together to push a conservative, broadly libertarian agenda, which only incidentally includes some gay rights items. GOProud has a coherent set of beliefs and policies, it's just not the beliefs and policies those of us in favor of gay rights might hope for.

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Re: Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby The Great Hippo » Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:28 am UTC

netcrusher88 wrote:Counterproductive to civil rights is counterproductive in general.
Only if civil rights are productive toward your personal goals.
netcrusher88 wrote:And I have no problem whatsoever assigning an obligation to advocate for gay (etc) rights to an organization which claims to represent the LGBT community and calling them out for it when they don't.
They don't make that claim. Here's a link toward their stated goals; they wish to represent members of the LGBT community who favor fiscal conservatism and state-level governance over federal level governance. These are real people with real desires and goals; describing them as 'counter-productive' because they've chosen to pursue those goals--rather than the goals you might set out for them ("Why aren't you supporting gay marriage? That's way more important than whatever it is you want")--is a denial of those desires and goals. Fr

This might be different if their goal was the prevention of gay marriage. But I don't see anything describing them as opponents of gay marriage; rather, gay marriage simply isn't as important to them as fiscal conservatism and state rights. To claim that their goal is wrong--that they're being 'counterproductive' to their own ends--is akin to demanding they give up their very identity.
firechicago wrote:I don't think "counter-productive in general" is terribly meaningful as a concept. By definition, counter-productive activity moves you further from your goal. If you don't have a goal, how can something be counter-productive?

That said, I do think "counter-productive" is the wrong term to use for GOProud, because it confuses "gay political action group" with "gay rights group." GOProud is not a group that has ever claimed to be working towards gay rights. Instead, it is a group of gays coming together to push a conservative, broadly libertarian agenda, which only incidentally includes some gay rights items. GOProud has a coherent set of beliefs and policies, it's just not the beliefs and policies those of us in favor of gay rights might hope for.
I think this might cut closer to the heart of what I'm trying to say--what I'm bothered by is the notion that we might denounce an organization because it's pursuing the 'wrong' agenda--that an agenda that represents the interests of a group of LGBT people must support a federal mandate for homosexual marriage, that they must represent the interests of the LGBT community at large, that they cannot represent other identities that the group may feel more passionately about--that all members of the LGBT community must be uniform and equipped with the same identity, the same desire, the same experience.

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Re: Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby Hawknc » Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:10 am UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:They don't make that claim. Here's a link toward their stated goals; they wish to represent members of the LGBT community who favor fiscal conservatism and state-level governance over federal level governance.

Of course, that just makes the opposition by the other conservative groups in CPAC even more ridiculous. They're not opposed because GOProud is pushing some gay agenda, but simply because they're gay.

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Re: Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby mmmcannibalism » Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:18 am UTC

Question, is this group pushing for removal of government discrimination but not private(in line with libertarian/true limited government ideas) or are they just a group of people who generally prefer the gop policies and happen to be gay?
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Re: Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby firechicago » Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:38 am UTC

mmmcannibalism wrote:Question, is this group pushing for removal of government discrimination but not private(in line with libertarian/true limited government ideas) or are they just a group of people who generally prefer the gop policies and happen to be gay?


A bit of column A and a bit of column B. Judging by their web site, they seem to have taken a pro-repeal stance on DADT, while they're opposed to ENDA. But gay rights issues occupy a small minority of the issues on their web site. Mostly it's concerned with fiscal conservatism and small government issues.

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Re: Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby aleflamedyud » Thu Dec 30, 2010 5:25 am UTC

Beyond just singing "trollollollollol", I'm actually quite fine with this. Homosexual rights have been a wedge issue for far too long, and if we get the Republicans on board with some libertarian conception of homosexual rights, we can take another step towards having actual Left-Right political debates in this country rather than just moral panics.
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Re: Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby nowfocus » Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:53 am UTC

Are these guys going to be at the Republican National Convention? That would be great.
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Re: Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby Lucrece » Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:50 am UTC

GOProud is a fringe little splinter of former LCR's who took their toys home because LCR didn't sell out often enough. They've got extremely little lobbying power, no office in Washington, no connections whatsoever to the RNC and Republican leadership like LCR does (as little as that gets them).

They're basically a smokescreen. They'll pull stunts to attract attention (like inviting Ann Coulter to tell them to stop thinking they're black in their own fundraisers, and that they're not persecuted), but that's it.

If anything, I'm more miffed at the LCR's abhorrent endorsement of McCain/Palin for presidency despite their track record, unlike their LCR predecessors who refused to endorse GWB.
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Re: Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby The Great Hippo » Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:28 pm UTC

Lucrece wrote:GOProud is a fringe little splinter of former LCR's who took their toys home because LCR didn't sell out often enough.
'Selling out' implies that you're betraying your (stated) core values for some form of material gain. Is that the case, or is this simply a case of an organization making a decision between two distinct core values concerning which one they find more important?

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Re: Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby netcrusher88 » Thu Dec 30, 2010 5:10 pm UTC

How about we start over with this then: GOProud is an organization of/by/for gay people that has repeatedly worked counter to the interests of the LGBT community - even against their own stated goals when they did deign to align those (they endorsed several candidates who opposed DADT repeal) - instead supporting whatever Republican is most handy at the moment and then blaming Democrats for not trying hard enough to oppose their own endorsees. That is why they are sellouts and that is why, though it does nothing to quell the 24/7 conflictinator, I can't disagree with Dan Savage's characterization of them as quislings and useful idiots.

Contrast the LCRs, who at least make an effort to stand up for gay rights. They've done some excellent work in court of late and are not nearly as partisan as their name would indicate.
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Re: Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby The Great Hippo » Thu Dec 30, 2010 5:58 pm UTC

netcrusher88 wrote:How about we start over with this then: GOProud is an organization of/by/for gay people that has repeatedly worked counter to the interests of the LGBT community - even against their own stated goals when they did deign to align those (they endorsed several candidates who opposed DADT repeal) - instead supporting whatever Republican is most handy at the moment and then blaming Democrats for not trying hard enough to oppose their own endorsees.
Again, is it not feasible for me to align myself with a political candidate who agrees with some of my positions but rejects others? If fiscal conservatism is more important to me than DADT repeal, am I 'selling out' because I support candidates who best represent my passions?
netcrusher88 wrote: That is why they are sellouts and that is why, though it does nothing to quell the 24/7 conflictinator, I can't disagree with Dan Savage's characterization of them as quislings and useful idiots.
That is incredibly demeaning and condescending. I am fine describing someone as a 'sell out' or a 'quisling' when it's clear that they're throwing aside their stated ethics for material gain ("I will never give in to corporations!" - while secretly receiving payments from organizations), but I don't see that clarity here. All I see is an organization that's putting certain issues before other ones, and in the process engages in behavior I'd describe as anti-homosexual, or at the very least, supporting anti-homosexual rhetoric (giving Ann Coulter any sort of validation is a particularly repugnant example). But that's not 'selling out'--not if they're clear about what their goals are and who they actually represent.

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Re: Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby Lucrece » Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:04 pm UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:
Lucrece wrote:GOProud is a fringe little splinter of former LCR's who took their toys home because LCR didn't sell out often enough.
'Selling out' implies that you're betraying your (stated) core values for some form of material gain. Is that the case, or is this simply a case of an organization making a decision between two distinct core values concerning which one they find more important?


Selling out in terms of overlooking candidate's homophobia for partisan goals. Yes, GOProud emphasizes partisanship, but they also oppose DADT and DOMA-- yet they would rather needle the "gay Left" than put any effort in finding conservatives not in the pocket of the religious right.

These are people who have little issue supporting candidates that seek to marginalize LGBT people like them, and this very marginalization is not fluff. There's blood on their hands when they support candidates who state that gay men are sexual predators ( and subsequently create an environment with physically hostile reaction to gay men).
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Re: Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby aleflamedyud » Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:08 pm UTC

I must admit, I've never heard of self-hating gays before.
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Re: Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby The Great Hippo » Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:26 pm UTC

Lucrece wrote:Selling out in terms of overlooking candidate's homophobia for partisan goals. Yes, GOProud emphasizes partisanship, but they also oppose DADT and DOMA-- yet they would rather needle the "gay Left" than put any effort in finding conservatives not in the pocket of the religious right.
Is that fair? Should homosexuals only support candidates who aren't homophobic? What other limitations should we put on the actions of homosexuals--should they only buy from non-homophobic store-owners? Should we demand they opt out of all homophobic culture?

Mind you, I'm all for calling bullshit on who we vote for and who we support, but there's a subtle distinction here. What bothers me here is the implied expectation that every homosexual must put homosexual issues first. It's possible to be a homosexual and not give a fuck about gay marriage; to actually be far more concerned with your country's fiscal policies than your country's social policies. And I don't think that such a thing should ever be described as 'selling out'.
Lucrece wrote:These are people who have little issue supporting candidates that seek to marginalize LGBT people like them, and this very marginalization is not fluff. There's blood on their hands when they support candidates who state that gay men are sexual predators ( and subsequently create an environment with physically hostile reaction to gay men).
Then there's blood on everyone's hands--we have all knowingly supported, in one way or another, those who are guilty of hate and who would contribute to a violent culture of abuse. It's only a question of how much blood, and how clearly we're aware of it.

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Re: Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby TheKrikkitWars » Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:44 pm UTC

Is it possible that the GOProud members feel stronger about other political issues than they feel about being gay? They're not required to follow some kind of "gay agenda" just because other people think that would make sense.

Gay people are people just like everyone else, and that means that they can have illogical political positions (like everyone else).
Ironically GOProud's puzzling position is actually one of the greatest demonstrations of why all the batshit-insane things the far right say about gay agendas and the like are complete and utter bullshit.
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Re: Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby Dark567 » Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:03 pm UTC

netcrusher88 wrote:.... and say gay marriage is a "state issue" which is Republicode for "we oppose it but we recognize there are people we can't say that to while taking their money".
Hasn't the interpretation of marriage as a state's right actually benefited homosexuals, at least so far? As far as I can tell, if marriage were considered a federal issue from the get go, gay marriage would have been banned everywhere. At least with marriage as a state issue a half dozen states can allow it.

EDIT: Actually it seems states rights are the precise reason why in a current legal case that DOMA is considered unconstitutional. http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... -HnSdp2S6g
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Re: Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby Belial » Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:08 pm UTC

TheKrikkitWars wrote:Is it possible that the GOProud members feel stronger about other political issues than they feel about being gay? They're not required to follow some kind of "gay agenda" just because other people think that would make sense.


While that's certainly possible, one wonders why they felt the need to create an action group to represent their interests specifically as Gay GOP members if the whole "being gay" thing wasn't high up on their give-a-shit-list. You'd think the regular old GOP would cover them otherwise.
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Re: Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby TheKrikkitWars » Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:45 pm UTC

Belial wrote:
TheKrikkitWars wrote:Is it possible that the GOProud members feel stronger about other political issues than they feel about being gay? They're not required to follow some kind of "gay agenda" just because other people think that would make sense.


While that's certainly possible, one wonders why they felt the need to create an action group to represent their interests specifically as Gay GOP members if the whole "being gay" thing wasn't high up on their give-a-shit-list. You'd think the regular old GOP would cover them otherwise.


TheKrikkitWars wrote:...have completely illogical political positions (like everyone else)...


Edited to add the superlaive.
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Re: Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby Silknor » Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:14 pm UTC

Belial wrote:While that's certainly possible, one wonders why they felt the need to create an action group to represent their interests specifically as Gay GOP members if the whole "being gay" thing wasn't high up on their give-a-shit-list. You'd think the regular old GOP would cover them otherwise.


The amount of posts in this thread that imply or state GOProud members are illogical/crazy/sellouts for putting some other issue above gay rights issues is exactly why: to dispel the notion that because they are gay they have to support politicians more favorable to gay rights. That wouldn't happen if they just happened to be gay members of traditional GOP groups. And presumably it puts some pressure on the GOP as a whole to move towards a less moralistic anti-gay stance, as well as providing some cover to GOP politicians who vote with the Democrats on gay rights issues. While it seems likely they prefer the Democratic position on most gay rights issues, I don't see why being gay should inform one's opinion on environmental regulation or progressive taxation. Analogously, there are organizations of pro-choice Republicans and pro-life Democrats.
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Re: Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby Belial » Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:43 pm UTC

Silknor wrote:Analogously, there are organizations of pro-choice Republicans and pro-life Democrats.


And again, you would expect those organizations to at least try to advance the agenda of the "interest" they were based around. You would expect a pro-life democratic organization to attempt to advance a pro-life agenda within the bounds of the democratic party, for example. You wouldn't expect them to completely disregard that agenda and still pretend to be relevant.
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Re: Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby Dark567 » Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:54 pm UTC

Belial wrote:And again, you would expect those organizations to at least try to advance the agenda of the "interest" they were based around. You would expect a pro-life democratic organization to attempt to advance a pro-life agenda within the bounds of the democratic party, for example. You wouldn't expect them to completely disregard that agenda and still pretend to be relevant.
Yes, but pro-life democratic organizations tend to endorse Pro-Choice Democrats over Pro-Life Republicans. Both organizations won't endorse someone from the opposite party. I don't think GOProud is completely disregarding a pro gay agenda, they are just Republicans first, and Gay rights advocates second.
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Re: Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby Silknor » Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:59 pm UTC

As Dark says, I expect that GOProud works to get pro-gay rights Republicans elected/nominated over those hostile to gay rights. Now they may act strategically, if they think the Republican who opposes gay rights is more likely to beat the Democrat than a weaker, but more gay rights friendly Republican, they might well endorse the former. I don't know enough about GOProud to know if they do this, but I don't see any reason why it's not possible to be a Republican while working to make the Republican party more gay rights friendly.
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Re: Gay advocacy group joins CPAC. CPAC implodes.

Postby The Great Hippo » Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:59 pm UTC

Belial wrote:
Silknor wrote:Analogously, there are organizations of pro-choice Republicans and pro-life Democrats.
And again, you would expect those organizations to at least try to advance the agenda of the "interest" they were based around. You would expect a pro-life democratic organization to attempt to advance a pro-life agenda within the bounds of the democratic party, for example. You wouldn't expect them to completely disregard that agenda and still pretend to be relevant.
No, this isn't analogous. "Pro-choice" and "Pro-life" are moral positions. Homosexuality is not a moral position. More analagous--a black person describing themselves as a Republican, forming an organization of black Republicans, and then getting shit because Republicans hate black people and clearly any black person who aligns themselves with Republican values (or supports Republican initiatives) is a 'sell-out' and 'traitor' to their race.

There are reasons I think this organization (the gay advocacy group in question) are in the wrong; those reasons have absolutely nothing to do with their identity as homosexuals.


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