Libya's Protests and Civil War

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Re: Libya's Protests and Civil War

Postby bigglesworth » Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:49 am UTC

I think that it is rather a case of both 1984 and Game Boy having the same source material: war reports.
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Re: Libya's Protests and Civil War

Postby sourmìlk » Sun Aug 21, 2011 9:45 pm UTC

Good news, everyone! Gaddafi has been killed. I can't find an article, but you can check his date of death on wikipedia.

EDIT: and now it changed, although wikipedia still says he was shot. Awaiting more official confirmation...
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Re: Libya's Protests and Civil War

Postby The Reaper » Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:00 pm UTC

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2 ... and/41530/

- Caught Saif al-Islam Gadhafi http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/afric ... index.html
- Missing Gaddafi (maybe algeria)
- Tripoli almost taken

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Re: Libya's Protests and Civil War

Postby sourmìlk » Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:46 pm UTC

So, whether or not Gadaffi is dead, those 26 seconds of watching Farnsworth say "Good news, everyone!" were not wasted.
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Re: Libya's Protests and Civil War

Postby sourmìlk » Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:56 pm UTC

Another update:

Rebels storm Gadaffi's compound


I have the same attitude with Libya that I had with Egypt: it's too early to tell whether or not the new guys will be friendly, but either way it's nice to see a horrible dictator get kicked out.
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Re: Libya's Protests and Civil War

Postby Dauric » Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:04 pm UTC

sourmìlk wrote:Another update:

Rebels storm Gadaffi's compound


I have the same attitude with Libya that I had with Egypt: it's too early to tell whether or not the new guys will be friendly, but either way it's nice to see a horrible dictator get kicked out.


Problem is Qaddafi hasn't himself been found, and one of his sons that was supposedly in rebel custody turned up at a hotel full of press reporters in the evening (early morning U.S. time). The problem is has the C&C for the Qaddafi's army been captured, or was it mobile enough to travel with the dictator when he left the compound.
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Re: Libya's Protests and Civil War

Postby sourmìlk » Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:06 pm UTC

Qadaffi's army appears to be fleeing Tripoli. The rebels estimate that it should be over in a couple days.

I was hearing on the radio how, if the rebels encountered a large group of tanks and other heavy weaponry, they could just call in a NATO air strike. That is an extremely useful ability to have.
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Re: Libya's Protests and Civil War

Postby poxic » Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:26 pm UTC

Someone at work mentioned that Gaddafi was on the run. It took my brain about two minutes to start singing a song to me:

"O-o-o-o-oh gee
There goes Tripoli
Go go Gaddafi"
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Re: Libya's Protests and Civil War

Postby podbaydoor » Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:49 pm UTC

Springtime for Gaddafi?
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Re: Libya's Protests and Civil War

Postby SlyReaper » Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:24 pm UTC

Run despot run despot run run run,
Here comes a rebel with his gun gun gun,
He'll get by
Without Gaddafi pie,
So run despot run despot run run run.
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Re: Libya's Protests and Civil War

Postby buddy431 » Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:36 pm UTC

Not to make light of a long and cruel dictatorship, but it's pretty funny some of the stuff coming out of Gadhafi's house. There's an interview with a rebel who got his hat, and today a photo album with Condoleezza Rice. They also ransacked his daughter's house. Finally, there's a thread on reddit claiming to show a pimped out gun of Gadhafi's. It must be fun to be an absolute ruler (at least until they kick you out).
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Re: Libya's Protests and Civil War

Postby Shivahn » Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:44 pm UTC

That might be the ugliest gun I've ever seen.

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Re: Libya's Protests and Civil War

Postby bigglesworth » Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:46 pm UTC

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Re: Libya's Protests and Civil War

Postby Zamfir » Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:55 pm UTC

buddy431 wrote:and today a photo album with Condoleezza Rice.

That is seriously weird.

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Rebels find Gadhafi album of Condoleeza photos

Postby Le1bn1z » Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:59 pm UTC

Wow. Uhhhh..... awkward.

In the latest twise of Gadhafi weirdness, it seems he had a serious thing for the esteemed former Secretary of State, Condoleeza Rice. In addition to giving her a diamond ring + extras (safely stored now in a warehouse), he kept a photoalbum of pictures of her. Just her. Smiling.

Wherever she is, Condi is taking a very, very long shower.

The Toronto Star writes:
TRIPOLI, LIBYA—Libyan rebels who took control of Moammar Gadhafi’s sprawling compound made a surprising discovery in one of the buildings: a photo album with pictures of Condoleezza Rice.

Though maybe the discovery isn’t that surprising. Over the years, the Libyan leader’s comments and actions related to the former U.S. secretary of state have raised a few eyebrows.

Consider how he talked about her in an interview with Al Jazeera television in 2007, where he hinted that then-president George W. Bush’s top diplomat wielded considerable influence in the Arab world.

“I support my darling black African woman,” he said. “I admire and am very proud of the way she leans back and gives orders to the Arab leaders. . . . Leezza, Leezza, Leezza. . . . I love her very much. I admire her, and I’m proud of her, because she’s a black woman of African origin.”

The following year, Gadhafi met Rice when she paid a historic visit to Libya — one that made steps toward normalizing relations after the United States went decades without an ambassador in Tripoli.

Gadhafi welcomed Rice in his home for a traditional meal and presented her with a diamond ring, a lute, a locket with an engraved likeness of himself inside and an inscribed edition of The Green Book, a personal political manifesto that explains his “Third Universal Theory for a new democratic society.”

Together, the haul was worth $212,000. (Rules prevent her, or any other U.S. official, from keeping gifts from foreign leaders — they generally end up in a warehouse, and some may turn up years later in a presidential library.)

Flash forward three years, when Libyan rebels moved into Gadhafi’s Tripoli stronghold and took control. There, left behind in the compound, was Gadhafi’s dear Leezza, her image affixed to the pages of a photo book.



She is his muse.

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Re: Rebels find Gadhafi album of Condoleeza photos

Postby Tirian » Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:33 pm UTC

IF that's so, then he must have take the Barbara Walters album into exile with him., The man has an eye for the blondes.

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Re: Rebels find Gadhafi album of Condoleeza photos

Postby Arancaytar » Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:44 pm UTC

“I support my darling black African woman,” he said. “I admire and am very proud of the way she leans back and gives orders to the Arab leaders. . . . Leezza, Leezza, Leezza. . . . I love her very much. I admire her, and I’m proud of her, because she’s a black woman of African origin.”


... didn't he have a thing for blonde nurses?
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Re: Rebels find Gadhafi album of Condoleeza photos

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:45 pm UTC

What, you don't find powerful women sexy?

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Re: Rebels find Gadhafi album of Condoleeza photos

Postby (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ » Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:29 am UTC

Arancaytar wrote:
“I support my darling black African woman,” he said. “I admire and am very proud of the way she leans back and gives orders to the Arab leaders. . . . Leezza, Leezza, Leezza. . . . I love her very much. I admire her, and I’m proud of her, because she’s a black woman of African origin.”


... didn't he have a thing for blonde nurses?

No one who has a thing for blondes could find a black woman attractive?

I have absolutely no incredulity for this tidbit of Gathafi's and to be honest I would be quite a bit more surprised for him to have a photo album of Barbara Walters, penchant for blondes or no. I kinda love it, actually. The ransacking of a tyrant's home is one thing, the ransacking of a WACKY tyrant's home is quite another. Peeps be stealin his chains, walking out like Mr. T. And did anybody else see the picture of the rebel with the AK throwing up the victory sign as he sat on Aisha Gathafi's inexplicable gold mermaid couch?
It's supposed to have her face on it. Man, it almost makes me wish I ruled a desert country with an iron fist.
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Re: Rebels find Gadhafi album of Condoleeza photos

Postby Sheikh al-Majaneen » Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:11 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:What, you don't find powerful women sexy?

They will find his Margaret Thatcher photo album when they capture him. Takes it everywhere he goes, you know.
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Re: Rebels find Gadhafi album of Condoleeza photos

Postby podbaydoor » Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:49 am UTC

It's like that time they found the wall-sized Justin Bieber mural in the basement of a drug cartel kingpin's home.

Meaux Pas wrote:The ransacking of a tyrant's home is one thing, the ransacking of a WACKY tyrant's home is quite another.

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Re: Rebels find Gadhafi album of Condoleeza photos

Postby Tirian » Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:51 am UTC

Meaux_Pas wrote:I have absolutely no incredulity for this tidbit of Gathafi's and to be honest I would be quite a bit more surprised for him to have a photo album of Barbara Walters, penchant for blondes or no.


My memory is coming through in fits and starts. I know that there was some wacky dictator of the past generation who gave unprecedented access and charm to blonde American female journalists, but my research is not turning up which pair that was.

Anyway, good on him for filling a whole album with smiling Condi pictures.

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Re: Rebels find Gadhafi album of Condoleeza photos

Postby omgryebread » Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:52 am UTC

You mean you guys don't have photo albums full of pictures of Condoleeza Rice...?


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Re: Rebels find Gadhafi album of Condoleeza photos

Postby Save Point » Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:10 am UTC

This is awesome. Better than finding Bin Laden's porn stash.

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Re: Rebels find Gadhafi album of Condoleeza photos

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:49 am UTC

I wonder if she'd be willing to pose for a calender? You know, a "Hottest Infidels" edition, that we sell to eccentric billionaire dictators to try and tackle the national debt.

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Re: Libya's Protests and Civil War

Postby Huojin » Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:16 pm UTC

Apparently African mercenaries recruited by Gaddafi are escaping the country in large numbers.

News that rebels have been talking with loyalists in Sirte about a surrender of the city. Similar situation in Ras Lanuf too. And the rebels control the border with Tunisia now.

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Re: Libya's Protests and Civil War

Postby podbaydoor » Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:55 pm UTC

Gaddafi remains at large, but you just have to enjoy this quote from a rebel fighter:

“It’s the biggest question — where is Qaddafi — and nobody knows,” said Suleiman Abu Milyana, a fighter from the Nafusah Mountains in the west. “He has a particular mind and many personalities. If he had one, you could guess, but he has three or four, so no one can know."


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/29/world ... ddafi.html
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Re: Libya's Protests and Civil War

Postby buddy431 » Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:03 am UTC

Two of Gadaffi's sons, his wife, and one of his daughters have gone to Algeria.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14709896

The daughter's house was Ransacked last week.

The two sons, Muhammad and Hannibal, are among the least involved in politics of his family. Hannibal is perhaps best known for several violent incidents in Europe, including being detained by Swiss authorities after he beat up some hotel workers. I think he was also alleged to have beat his wife at one point in Europe.
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Re: Libya's Protests and Civil War

Postby buddy431 » Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:44 am UTC

Speaking of things found when Gadaffi's house was looted, check out his family picture album:

http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/29/a-qaddafi-family-photo-album/#
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Re: Libya's Protests and Civil War

Postby Iulus Cofield » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:15 pm UTC

Al-Jazeera implicates David Welch, former diplomat and Assistant Secretary of State under Bush, and Representative Dennis Kucinich in attempting to keep Gaddafi in power during the LNTC/NATO offensive

Spoiler:
I found what appeared to be the minutes of a meeting between senior Libyan officials – Abubakr Alzleitny and Mohammed Ahmed Ismail – and David Welch, former assistant secretary of state under George W Bush. Welch was the man who brokered the deal to restore diplomatic relations between the US and Libya in 2008.
Welch now works for Bechtel, a multinational American company with billion-dollar construction deals across the Middle East. The documents record that, on August 2, 2011, David Welch met with Gaddafi's officials at the Four Seasons Hotel in Cairo, just a few blocks from the US embassy.

During that meeting Welch advised Gaddafi's team on how to win the propaganda war, suggesting several "confidence-building measures", according to the documents. The documents appear to indicate that an influential US political personality was advising Gaddafi on how to beat the US and NATO.

Minutes of this meeting record his advice on how to undermine Libya's rebel movement, with the potential assistance of foreign intelligence agencies, including Israel.

The documents read: "Any information related to al-Qaeda or other terrorist extremist organisations should be found and given to the American administration but only via the intelligence agencies of either Israel, Egypt, Morroco, or Jordan… America will listen to them… It's better to receive this information as if it originated from those countries...".

The papers also document Welch advising the Gaddafi's regime to take advantage of the current unrest in Syria. The documents held this passage: "The importance of taking advantage of the Syrian situation particularly regarding the double-standard policy adopted by Washington… the Syrians were never your friends and you would loose nothing from exploiting the situation there in order to embarrass the West."

'Encouragement to Gaddafi'

Despite this apparent encouragement to Gaddafi to pursue a propaganda campaign at the expense of Syria, the documents claim Welch attacked Qatar, describing Doha's actions as "cynical" and an attempt to divert attention from the unrest in Bahrain.

The documents allege that Welch went on to propose the following solution to the crisis which he said many would support in the US administration: "[Gaddafi] should step aside" but "not necessarily relinquish all his powers".

This advice is a clear contradiction of public demands from the White House that Gaddafi must be removed.

According to the document, as the meeting closed, Welch promised: "To convey everything to the American administration, the congress and other influential figures."
It appears Welch was not the only prominent American giving help to Gaddafi as NATO and the rebel army were locked in battle with his regime.

On the floor of the intelligence chief's office lay an envelope addressed to Gaddafi's son Saif Al-Islam. Inside, I found what appears to be a summary of a conversation between US congressman Denis Kucinich, who publicly opposed US policy on Libya, and an intermediary for the Libyan leader's son.

It details a request by the congressman for information he needed to lobby US lawmakers to suspend their support for the Libyan National Transitional Council (NTC) and to put an end to NATO airstrikes.

According to the document, Kucinich wanted evidence of corruption within the NTC and, like Welch, any possible links within rebel ranks to al-Qaeda.

The document also lists specific information needed to defend Saif Al-Islam, who is currently on the International Criminal Court's most-wanted list.

Scattered across the headquarters were smashed frames holding "the brother leader's" pictures, powerful images which depict Gaddafi's sudden fall from grace.

It took six months to topple Gaddafi's regime, but the colonel did rule for over forty years. During his reign thousands of people went missing, planes were blown up, and billion-dollar deals were struck in the most dubious of circumstances.

Finding out the true story behind all this will take a long time, and even then there are some things that will never be known.

A spokesperson for the US state department said that David Welch is "a private citizen" who was on a "private trip" and that he did not carry "any messages from the US government". Welch has not responded to Al Jazeera's requests for comment.

Dennis Kucinich issued a statement to the Atlantic Wire stating: "Al Jazeera found a document written by a Libyan bureaucrat to other Libyan bureaucrats. All it proves is that the Libyans were reading the Washington Post... I can't help what the Libyans put in their files... Any implication I was doing anything other than trying to bring an end to an unauthorised war is fiction."

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Re: Libya's Protests and Civil War

Postby buddy431 » Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:20 pm UTC

Convoy of loyalists heads to Niger.

The government of Niger denies that Gaddafi was on it. It is considered likely that Gaddafi might try to escape to Burkina Faso (which has offered him asylum) through Niger. If I was Gaddafi, I would be thinking pretty hard about hightailing it out of Libya right now (assuming he's even still there). On the other hand, I wouldn't have had the personality to seize control of a country in the first place, so maybe I'm not one to talk.
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Re: Libya's Protests and Civil War

Postby curtis95112 » Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:22 pm UTC

Sirte has fallen, Gaddafi is dead or captured.

Live feed from the Guardian.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2011/oct/20/syria-libya-middle-east-unrest-live
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Re: Libya's Protests and Civil War

Postby Lucrece » Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:48 pm UTC

http://www.youtube.com/verify_controver ... JQUShElCzE

Gaddafi's lifeless body being thrashed around by rebels.
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Re: Libya's Protests and Civil War

Postby podbaydoor » Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:50 pm UTC

Is that definitely him? I was listening on NPR this morning and the latest word was that no independent confirmation has been made.
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Re: Libya's Protests and Civil War

Postby Sytri » Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:55 pm UTC

There's a big picture of him on the front page of BBC News (Warning: Don't click if you're easily offended or eating or both.) pretty grim to be honest. I know it's reporting the news and this definitely is news, but just doesn't seem right that it's splashed everywhere. I had the same feeling when it came to the Saddam hanging, it just isn't right. Yes, they were horrible people but don't glory in their death.

The next few years should be interesting for Libya now that the rebels have become the government. Lets hope they can bash out a decent leadership and get the country to the prosperity it should have.


Edited for a warning on the link.
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Re: Libya's Protests and Civil War

Postby podbaydoor » Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:05 pm UTC

Wow. Someone decided against the breakfast cereal test, I guess.
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Re: Libya's Protests and Civil War

Postby Sytri » Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:06 pm UTC

Sorry! Should have made it a bit more clear just how bad that picture is. Will do so now in edits.

But yeah, no real thought about what the picture is, how big it is and whether to warn people or not.

Edit: Added the warning in now. Sorry if it upset anyone.
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Re: Libya's Protests and Civil War

Postby Steax » Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:08 pm UTC

... That's quite unsettling. I know the news tends to have violent or harsh material, but that's only really best when there's no other way to describe the impact of what happened. A person said to be dead and pictures just so. Ugh. =/

I clicked on the link fully knowing what I was about to see, but it was still... off. Looking forward to see if that's really him, though. If it isn't...
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Re: Libya's Protests and Civil War

Postby podbaydoor » Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:08 pm UTC

Oh, I meant the "someone" to refer to the editorial staff of the BBC. But thanks for putting in the warning. :)
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Re: Libya's Protests and Civil War

Postby Lucrece » Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:09 pm UTC

Sytri wrote:There's a big picture of him on the front page of BBC News pretty grim to be honest. I know it's reporting the news and this definitely is news, but just doesn't seem right that it's splashed everywhere. I had the same feeling when it came to the Saddam hanging, it just isn't right. Yes, they were horrible people but don't glory in their death.

The next few years should be interesting for Libya now that the rebels have become the government. Lets hope they can bash out a decent leadership and get the country to the prosperity it should have.



No, they should be published. If you're willing to support someone's slaughter, you should be faced with evidence of your actions. Yeah, he was by all accounts an evil person, but I bet if more people had to sit through livestreams of someone being administered a death penalty, many civilized people would balk at the previous cheers and hoops they do about it.

It's a grisly business and it shouldn't be sanitized, otherwise it gets idealized.
Belial wrote:That's charming, Nancy, but all I hear when you talk is a bunch of yippy dog sounds.


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