Birthers are morons

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Birthers are morons

Postby mosc » Sat Apr 16, 2011 4:27 am UTC

http://www.emailthis.clickability.com/e ... 1668706528

I wish he had asked "Sir, taking for a fact based on my word that the state of Hawaii does not have birth certificates including the attending doctor's names and hasn't in it's entire existence as a US state, would you then still want to pass a bill that basically amounts to anyone born in Hawaii not being able to run for president in the state of Arizona?"

EDIT: Fixed my link
Last edited by mosc on Sat Apr 16, 2011 5:30 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Birthers are morons

Postby Qaanol » Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:42 am UTC

Video not working for me, but you’re right that birthers are morons. Barack Obama is a natural born citizen of the United States, regardless of where he was born, because his mother was a United States citizen. (She was born in Kansas and died in Hawaii.)
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Re: Birthers are morons

Postby Diadem » Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:04 am UTC

Are you sure you linked the right video? Because for me that links to an interview with the CEO of pepsico, where she makes a comparison between being president and running a company. It doesn't even mention anything related to his birth or nationality.

Qaanol wrote:Video not working for me, but you’re right that birthers are morons. Barack Obama is a natural born citizen of the United States, regardless of where he was born, because his mother was a United States citizen. (She was born in Kansas and died in Hawaii.)

Doesn't your constitution say that you have to be born in the US to run for president though, not 'be a natural born citizen'. Not that that article is not entirely stupid in and of itself, but still.
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Re: Birthers are morons

Postby Eseell » Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:13 am UTC

Diadem wrote:Doesn't your constitution say that you have to be born in the US to run for president though, not 'be a natural born citizen'. Not that that article is not entirely stupid in and of itself, but still.

The Constitution of the United States of America wrote:(Article 2, Section 1, Paragraph 5) No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
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Re: Birthers are morons

Postby bentheimmigrant » Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:59 pm UTC

A bunch of dead dudes wrote:or a Citizen of the United States

Huh... I never knew this part was in there... I mean, I don't think they actually define "natural born citizen", but the "or" makes it kinda not matter. Or was there some kind of explanation/legal precedent set later?

at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution

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Re: Birthers are morons

Postby Seraph » Sat Apr 16, 2011 2:15 pm UTC

Qaanol wrote:Video not working for me, but you’re right that birthers are morons. Barack Obama is a natural born citizen of the United States, regardless of where he was born, because his mother was a United States citizen. (She was born in Kansas and died in Hawaii.)

Having one parent who is a US Citizen isn't by itself enough to make the child a US citizen. Heck, there are circumstances where having two parents who are US Citizens as parents isn't enough to make the child a US citizen.

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Re: Birthers are morons

Postby Angua » Sat Apr 16, 2011 2:32 pm UTC

Seraph wrote:
Qaanol wrote:Video not working for me, but you’re right that birthers are morons. Barack Obama is a natural born citizen of the United States, regardless of where he was born, because his mother was a United States citizen. (She was born in Kansas and died in Hawaii.)

Having one parent who is a US Citizen isn't by itself enough to make the child a US citizen. Heck, there are circumstances where having two parents who are US Citizens as parents isn't enough to make the child a US citizen.
Really? My dad got me a passport from the US embassy in England when I was 6 months so I could fly. Apparently he was asked if I was his child to the best of his knowledge - my mother (not American) didn't even have to go down. Also, when the American ambassador visited our school, he said that if you were born on US soil, you could then help get your parents citizenship when you turn 21. I'm interested to know what else you need to make the child a US citizen?
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Re: Birthers are morons

Postby TheGrammarBolshevik » Sat Apr 16, 2011 2:39 pm UTC

bentheimmigrant wrote:
A bunch of dead dudes wrote:or a Citizen of the United States

Huh... I never knew this part was in there... I mean, I don't think they actually define "natural born citizen", but the "or" makes it kinda not matter. Or was there some kind of explanation/legal precedent set later?

at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution

This is the real problem though... There's no one left.

That clause presumably only applies to the "or a Citizen of the United States," since that's the only reading that makes any sense.
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Re: Birthers are morons

Postby Belial » Sat Apr 16, 2011 2:45 pm UTC

Nonsense, they totally wanted the government to expire one generation out.
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Re: Birthers are morons

Postby Dream » Sat Apr 16, 2011 5:21 pm UTC

They put it in to ensure that strict literalists could never, ever, dominate interpretations of the constitution. If they did they'd have to abolish the Presidency, or discover the fountain of youth.
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Re: Birthers are morons

Postby mosc » Sat Apr 16, 2011 5:33 pm UTC

Fixed my video link. Why I posted this particularly was due to the overarching ridiculousness of trying to regulate another state's birth certificates. That's by definition a federal issue. Maybe they should give out demerits for idiot legislation that is so clearly constitutional that it calls into question the capability of the legislature's ability to govern effectively.

Also, I don't understand why Hawaii itself isn't making more noise. This isn't really an Obama vs birthers issue, it's a Hawaii vs Arizona issue. They're basically passing a bill that says all Hawaii birth certificates aren't good enough.
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Re: Birthers are morons

Postby Technical Ben » Sat Apr 16, 2011 5:46 pm UTC

Perhaps Hawaii is doing the clever thing? And staying out of Americas affairs? ;)
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Re: Birthers are morons

Postby Gellert1984 » Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:17 pm UTC

Y'know it'd be hillarious is Hawaii turned around and declared independance.
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Re: Birthers are morons

Postby Dark Avorian » Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:32 pm UTC

Seems like a good idea, just join canada, so the government can winter in tropical heat and sunshine.
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Re: Birthers are morons

Postby Jahoclave » Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:39 pm UTC

bentheimmigrant wrote:
A bunch of dead dudes wrote:or a Citizen of the United States

Huh... I never knew this part was in there... I mean, I don't think they actually define "natural born citizen", but the "or" makes it kinda not matter. Or was there some kind of explanation/legal precedent set later?

at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution

This is the real problem though... There's no one left.

Well, mainly it's because the Cit of U.S. and time of Adoption go together. Otherwise, there's quite a bit of problems filling the Presidency when nobody qualifies due to not being born a U.S. Citizen.

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Re: Birthers are morons

Postby Seraph » Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:46 pm UTC

Angua wrote:
Seraph wrote:
Qaanol wrote:Video not working for me, but you’re right that birthers are morons. Barack Obama is a natural born citizen of the United States, regardless of where he was born, because his mother was a United States citizen. (She was born in Kansas and died in Hawaii.)

Having one parent who is a US Citizen isn't by itself enough to make the child a US citizen. Heck, there are circumstances where having two parents who are US Citizens as parents isn't enough to make the child a US citizen.
Really? My dad got me a passport from the US embassy in England when I was 6 months so I could fly. Apparently he was asked if I was his child to the best of his knowledge - my mother (not American) didn't even have to go down. Also, when the American ambassador visited our school, he said that if you were born on US soil, you could then help get your parents citizenship when you turn 21. I'm interested to know what else you need to make the child a US citizen?

If you're born outside of the United States then the following ways are how you can be a natural born US citizen.
1) If both your parents are US citizens then one of them must have lived in the US at some point.
2) If one parent is a US citizen and the other a US national, then the citizen must have lived in the US for at least a year (continuously) at some point.
3) If one parent is a US citizen and the other isn't, then the citizen must have been present in the us for at least 5 years, two of those years falling after the citizens 14th birthday.
Note: Serving the armed forces, or working for the US government oversees in certain ways satisfies the "present" condition of #3, but not the "lived" condition of #2.

Relevant part of the US Code:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/1401.html

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Re: Birthers are morons

Postby Hawknc » Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:12 am UTC

Seraph wrote:1) If both your parents are US citizens then one of them must have lived in the US at some point.
2) If one parent is a US citizen and the other a US national, then the citizen must have lived in the US for at least a year (continuously) at some point.
3) If one parent is a US citizen and the other isn't, then the citizen must have been present in the us for at least 5 years, two of those years falling after the citizens 14th birthday.
Note: Serving the armed forces, or working for the US government oversees in certain ways satisfies the "present" condition of #3, but not the "lived" condition of #2.

Did the Obama mama fail to meet at least one of these?

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Re: Birthers are morons

Postby Garm » Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:13 am UTC

Hawknc wrote:
Seraph wrote:1) If both your parents are US citizens then one of them must have lived in the US at some point.
2) If one parent is a US citizen and the other a US national, then the citizen must have lived in the US for at least a year (continuously) at some point.
3) If one parent is a US citizen and the other isn't, then the citizen must have been present in the us for at least 5 years, two of those years falling after the citizens 14th birthday.
Note: Serving the armed forces, or working for the US government oversees in certain ways satisfies the "present" condition of #3, but not the "lived" condition of #2.

Did the Obama mama fail to meet at least one of these?


There's the other bit where none of this applies if one of the parents in question is brown. All Strict Constitutionalists know that.
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Re: Birthers are morons

Postby Qaanol » Sun Apr 17, 2011 7:50 am UTC

Hawknc wrote:
Seraph wrote:1) If both your parents are US citizens then one of them must have lived in the US at some point.
2) If one parent is a US citizen and the other a US national, then the citizen must have lived in the US for at least a year (continuously) at some point.
3) If one parent is a US citizen and the other isn't, then the citizen must have been present in the us for at least 5 years, two of those years falling after the citizens 14th birthday.
Note: Serving the armed forces, or working for the US government oversees in certain ways satisfies the "present" condition of #3, but not the "lived" condition of #2.

Did the Obama mama fail to meet at least one of these?

Only point 3 applies, and its requirements are satisfied. The Wikipedia article on Obama’s mother incudes a brief bio. She was born in Kansas and lived there, then moved to California, Oklahoma, Texas, Kansas again, then Washington state for high school. She went to college in Hawaii, got pregnant and married in her freshman year, and gave birth to our current president the following summer, when she was 18 years old.
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Re: Birthers are morons

Postby bentheimmigrant » Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:32 pm UTC

Stupid reality, all liberally biased and stuff.
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Re: Birthers are morons

Postby Diadem » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:19 am UTC

This bill requires a signature of the attending doctor and hospital. But ehm, what about people who aren't born in a hospital? Like, ehm, tens of millions of people.
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Re: Birthers are morons

Postby mosc » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:36 am UTC

Diadem wrote:This bill requires a signature of the attending doctor and hospital. But ehm, what about people who aren't born in a hospital? Like, ehm, tens of millions of people.

I was focusing on the more obvious "states that don't have doctor's name on their birth certificate forms" but you're right. Being born without an MD around now means you're unqualified to run for president in Arizona.

What I find particularly amusing about Arizona being the ones stupid enough to propose this is that the previous republican candidate for pres, Mr. McCain, was actually born in Panama at the US military base. Of course he's totally a natural born citizen but you'd think they of all people would know better than to be bitching about the intricacies of citizenship requirements.
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Re: Birthers are morons

Postby Cathy » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:37 am UTC

Diadem wrote:This bill requires a signature of the attending doctor and hospital. But ehm, what about people who aren't born in a hospital? Like, ehm, tens of millions of people.

Wow, I wonder if home-birthers and midwives and all have a lobby group? If so it'll be sure to jump on this sort of thing. I don't really approve of it (my little brother would have died if not for a hospital -- not breathing at birth) but some people think it's the way to go.
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Re: Birthers are morons

Postby hanecter » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:39 am UTC

The stance of the people supporting this bill is much like mine in high school chemistry. I once needed a particular salt for an experiment I designed. My teacher didn't have it and told me to make it using the compounds we did have. I found two compounds that would undergo a double replacement reaction that would produce the salt I needed.

Well.

I didn't think to check the OTHER product of the reaction. I was naive and careless. And ended up producing large amounts of hydrogen bromide gas.

Additionally, yes, hospitals carry their benefits, and I'd much rather people deliver in hospitals, but sometimes it's not a choice whether you give birth in a hospital or a taxi cab :D

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Re: Birthers are morons

Postby cephalopod9 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:47 am UTC

Know what may favorite part about this is?
John McCain was born in Panama.
Image

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Re: Birthers are morons

Postby mosc » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:47 am UTC

cephalopod9 wrote:Know what may favorite part about this is?
John McCain was born in Panama.

mosc wrote:What I find particularly amusing about Arizona being the ones stupid enough to propose this is that the previous republican candidate for pres, Mr. McCain, was actually born in Panama at the US military base.

hmm?
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Re: Birthers are morons

Postby Jahoclave » Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:26 am UTC

hanecter wrote:The stance of the people supporting this bill is much like mine in high school chemistry. I once needed a particular salt for an experiment I designed. My teacher didn't have it and told me to make it using the compounds we did have. I found two compounds that would undergo a double replacement reaction that would produce the salt I needed.

Well.

I didn't think to check the OTHER product of the reaction. I was naive and careless. And ended up producing large amounts of hydrogen bromide gas.

Additionally, yes, hospitals carry their benefits, and I'd much rather people deliver in hospitals, but sometimes it's not a choice whether you give birth in a hospital or a taxi cab :D

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Re: Birthers are morons

Postby Qaanol » Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:55 am UTC

Belial wrote:Nonsense, they totally wanted the government to expire one generation out.

And they used the term “natural born” to make sure no C-section babies could hold the top job.
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Re: Birthers are morons

Postby Aikanaro » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:23 pm UTC

Qaanol wrote:
Belial wrote:Nonsense, they totally wanted the government to expire one generation out.

And they used the term “natural born” to make sure no C-section babies could hold the top job.

Or clones!
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Re: Birthers are morons

Postby Endless Mike » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:25 pm UTC


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Re: Birthers are morons

Postby bentheimmigrant » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:01 pm UTC

I still say the founding fathers were planning on coming back as zombies once everyone from the qualifying generation had died off.
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Re: Birthers are morons

Postby Felstaff » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:07 pm UTC

Away, you scullion! you rampallion! You fustilarian! I'll tickle your catastrophe.

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Re: Birthers are morons

Postby JBJ » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:18 pm UTC

Gellert1984 wrote:Y'know it'd be hillarious is Hawaii turned around and declared independance.

The revolution is underway.
Well, that sign has been up since at least 2007, possibly as early as 2005. I haven't been to the islands since 2009, so I don't know if it was updated to the current governor, Neil Abercrombie.
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Re: Birthers are morons

Postby zmatt » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:12 pm UTC

JBJ wrote:
Gellert1984 wrote:Y'know it'd be hillarious is Hawaii turned around and declared independance.

The revolution is underway.
Well, that sign has been up since at least 2007, possibly as early as 2005. I haven't been to the islands since 2009, so I don't know if it was updated to the current governor, Neil Abercrombie.


must be like 4 people in that group. i was under the impression that Hawaiian culture outside of luaus was more or less dead.
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Re: Birthers are morons

Postby Diadem » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:21 pm UTC

Endless Mike wrote:Or mothers who used forceps, epidurals, or painkillers during birth!

Of course! Using painkillers during birth is unchristian. Women are supposed to suffer. The bible says so. Such a child can only be the spawn of Satan and should never be US president.

Unfortunately the bible really says so ...
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Re: Birthers are morons

Postby Qaanol » Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:23 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:Of course! Using painkillers during birth is unchristian. Women are supposed to suffer. The bible says so. Such a child can only be the spawn of Satan and should never be US president.

Unfortunately the bible really says so ...

Yet another phrase in the constitution proves the US was supposed to be a fundamentalist christian theocracy all along!
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Re: Birthers are morons

Postby Aikanaro » Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:43 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:
Endless Mike wrote:Or mothers who used forceps, epidurals, or painkillers during birth!

Of course! Using painkillers during birth is unchristian. Women are supposed to suffer. The bible says so. Such a child can only be the spawn of Satan and should never be US president.

Unfortunately the bible really says so ...

Citation, please? Not calling you a liar, mind, the bible DOES have some stuff folks don't read carefully, I just like to know where exactly such things are located. I'm assuming you mean about the curse of Eve after being kicked out of Eden? Does it actually forbid attempts to alleviate the pain?
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Re: Birthers are morons

Postby Mokele » Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:26 am UTC

Qaanol wrote:
Hawknc wrote:
Seraph wrote:1) If both your parents are US citizens then one of them must have lived in the US at some point.
2) If one parent is a US citizen and the other a US national, then the citizen must have lived in the US for at least a year (continuously) at some point.
3) If one parent is a US citizen and the other isn't, then the citizen must have been present in the us for at least 5 years, two of those years falling after the citizens 14th birthday.
Note: Serving the armed forces, or working for the US government oversees in certain ways satisfies the "present" condition of #3, but not the "lived" condition of #2.

Did the Obama mama fail to meet at least one of these?

Only point 3 applies, and its requirements are satisfied. The Wikipedia article on Obama’s mother incudes a brief bio. She was born in Kansas and lived there, then moved to California, Oklahoma, Texas, Kansas again, then Washington state for high school. She went to college in Hawaii, got pregnant and married in her freshman year, and gave birth to our current president the following summer, when she was 18 years old.


IIRC, a significant plot point in Stranger in a Strange Land was that, because the central character had parents who were US citizens, he was a automatically a citizen, even though he was literally born on Mars.
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Re: Birthers are morons

Postby Glass Fractal » Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:37 am UTC

Aikanaro wrote:
Diadem wrote:
Endless Mike wrote:Or mothers who used forceps, epidurals, or painkillers during birth!

Of course! Using painkillers during birth is unchristian. Women are supposed to suffer. The bible says so. Such a child can only be the spawn of Satan and should never be US president.

Unfortunately the bible really says so ...

Citation, please? Not calling you a liar, mind, the bible DOES have some stuff folks don't read carefully, I just like to know where exactly such things are located. I'm assuming you mean about the curse of Eve after being kicked out of Eden? Does it actually forbid attempts to alleviate the pain?


It doesn't directly say that attempts to alleviate pain are disallowed but it's not hard to read it that way:
To the woman He said, 'I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, In pain you shall bring forth children; Yet your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you." (Genesis 3:16)

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Re: Birthers are morons

Postby bentheimmigrant » Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:27 am UTC

Not really. I mean, there's nothing at all in there that says you can't try to do anything about it.
"Comment is free, but facts are sacred" - C.P. Scott


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