In other news... (humorous news items)

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addams
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby addams » Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:51 pm UTC

Good Grief, Children.
What a difficult position that family is in.

They have been living along, happily?
Then; Poof! They are not welcome in the land that has been home for twenty years?

They have a great many things to get in order.
When will they be required to leave?

They have difficult decisions to make?
One person has had his Right to live in NZ revoked.
What about his family?

Will he go alone to the Land of his birth?
Will anyone go with him?

Are his wife and family required to go?
The children, if any, are NZ citizens?

Poor baby. What kind of a place will he return to?
Alone or in the company of friends and family?

The people that do paperwork are like Gods, sometimes.
The Gods speak or write and everyone else figures out how to Live within the Decree of the Gods.

Will he begin a Blog? The Deportation.
Each day. The Steps into Sadness and Despair.

oopps. Funny News. What part of saying good-bye to Home is funny?
It is possible for people that are told they are leaving Home to love it even more.

Will he be touring? Going to his favorite places with his favorite people.
No More Working For The Man! Loving his Home before it is taken away could be his full time job.

I did a little of that. Not as much fun as it sounds. I had to do a great deal of it alone.
NZ has one of the world's best little Tree Museums. That's the rumor.

https://www.google.com/search?q=new+zea ... 92&bih=572

The way I heard it Someone got the bright idea to grow every kind of tree in NZ.
Some did fine. Other did not do so well.

The Coastal Redwood is doing better there than in California.
That is what I was told. California's trees are, still, bigger.
They have been growing longer.

In five hundred years the largest trees in the World could be in NZ.
That is a long term project. Not much upkeep required.

The only thing the trees must be protected from is Human Vigilantes.
Nice people will do stupid stuff.

One time not so long ago, People decided to rid a park that is the size of some fair size countries of all NonNatives.
No Eucalyptus tree is native to the Northern Hemisphere.

There were Eucalyptus trees 160 years old down in there.
I think it is a good rule of thumb, "If it has been growing for 165 years! Leave it alone!"

Not Native? How long does it Take?
That man has people to contact.

He has Hell-o and Good-bye lunches to eat.
He may put on a little weight. Darn!
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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CorruptUser
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby CorruptUser » Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:54 pm UTC

I'm not even sure some of the morbidly obese even have a sense of shame. I have a friend who is a firefighter, and he often has to deal with the morbidly obese, because the paramedics and police don't want to (he has own revenge on the cops; he lets them look in the buckets*). You have these 700 lb guys who more or less live in their bathtubs. They don't directly crap in the toilet, they scoop it out of the tubs with their hands to throw it in the toilet. Sometimes they get stuck and can't get out of the tub, and that's when my friend has to come in. The firefighters cut a hole in the walls and roll the guy onto a piece of plywood, and then 4+ guys will drag and push the giant mound of flesh down the stairs and out of the building (the fattest people always live on the top floor of a walkup, always) where the paramedics then load him into a special ambulance.

I was speaking with a gastro-intestinal doctor a few weeks ago, and he doesn't like dealing with the bariatric patients. They are given the surgery without any extra consultations, so he has to explain to them the reason they keep vomiting is because the surgery is specifically designed to prevent them from eating too much. About 1/8th of obesity is caused by other medical problems, often as a side-effect from medication needed for said problems. Sometimes the patients come in, "hey doc, thanks for the new medication, it worked great. Except, it was suppressing my appetite and I ended up losing 100 lbs, but I was able to work with my medication and now I'm eating normally again and I'm back up to 500 lbs!"

*In a building with a bunch of 5-10 gallon sealed buckets, never open the bucket. Never ever ever. That's the policeman's job, let him look in the bucket. Don't move the bucket. Don't touch the bucket. Don't even acknowledge that there is even a bucket there. If you have to look in the bucket, please wait until I'm out of the building.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby morriswalters » Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:19 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:I'm not even sure some of the morbidly obese even have a sense of shame. I have a friend who is a firefighter, and he often has to deal with the morbidly obese, because the paramedics and police don't want to (he has own revenge on the cops; he lets them look in the buckets*). You have these 700 lb guys who more or less live in their bathtubs. They don't directly crap in the toilet, they scoop it out of the tubs with their hands to throw it in the toilet. Sometimes they get stuck and can't get out of the tub, and that's when my friend has to come in. The firefighters cut a hole in the walls and roll the guy onto a piece of plywood, and then 4+ guys will drag and push the giant mound of flesh down the stairs and out of the building (the fattest people always live on the top floor of a walkup, always) where the paramedics then load him into a special ambulance.

I was speaking with a gastro-intestinal doctor a few weeks ago, and he doesn't like dealing with the bariatric patients. They are given the surgery without any extra consultations, so he has to explain to them the reason they keep vomiting is because the surgery is specifically designed to prevent them from eating too much. About 1/8th of obesity is caused by other medical problems, often as a side-effect from medication needed for said problems. Sometimes the patients come in, "hey doc, thanks for the new medication, it worked great. Except, it was suppressing my appetite and I ended up losing 100 lbs, but I was able to work with my medication and now I'm eating normally again and I'm back up to 500 lbs!"

*In a building with a bunch of 5-10 gallon sealed buckets, never open the bucket. Never ever ever. That's the policeman's job, let him look in the bucket. Don't move the bucket. Don't touch the bucket. Don't even acknowledge that there is even a bucket there. If you have to look in the bucket, please wait until I'm out of the building.


They have one.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby KrytenKoro » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:00 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:I'm not even sure some of the morbidly obese even have a sense of shame. I have a friend who is a firefighter, and he often has to deal with the morbidly obese, because the paramedics and police don't want to (he has own revenge on the cops; he lets them look in the buckets*). You have these 700 lb guys who more or less live in their bathtubs. They don't directly crap in the toilet, they scoop it out of the tubs with their hands to throw it in the toilet. Sometimes they get stuck and can't get out of the tub, and that's when my friend has to come in. The firefighters cut a hole in the walls and roll the guy onto a piece of plywood, and then 4+ guys will drag and push the giant mound of flesh down the stairs and out of the building (the fattest people always live on the top floor of a walkup, always) where the paramedics then load him into a special ambulance.

I was speaking with a gastro-intestinal doctor a few weeks ago, and he doesn't like dealing with the bariatric patients. They are given the surgery without any extra consultations, so he has to explain to them the reason they keep vomiting is because the surgery is specifically designed to prevent them from eating too much. About 1/8th of obesity is caused by other medical problems, often as a side-effect from medication needed for said problems. Sometimes the patients come in, "hey doc, thanks for the new medication, it worked great. Except, it was suppressing my appetite and I ended up losing 100 lbs, but I was able to work with my medication and now I'm eating normally again and I'm back up to 500 lbs!"

*In a building with a bunch of 5-10 gallon sealed buckets, never open the bucket. Never ever ever. That's the policeman's job, let him look in the bucket. Don't move the bucket. Don't touch the bucket. Don't even acknowledge that there is even a bucket there. If you have to look in the bucket, please wait until I'm out of the building.

That's wonderful anecdote, except the discrimination being talked about is a guy who's only 286 lb, who was losing weight, and who had a job.

For reference, I weigh more than that, and have 0 healthcare costs to anybody, have a job, am able to run, jump, swim, etc., and am not on welfare or anything.

It's a shitty, moronic piece of discrimination, either aimed at superficial expulsion of "fatties", or reaching for any kind of demerit to get rid of "dirty immigrants".
From the elegant yelling of this compelling dispute comes the ghastly suspicion my opposition's a fruit.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:57 pm UTC

Shame is a terrible way to try and convince someone to change their ways. Unsurprisingly, it isn't very effective either.
Look In My Face
Stare In My Soul
I Begin To Stupefy

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby Alexius » Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:24 pm UTC

KrytenKoro wrote:[
That's wonderful anecdote, except the discrimination being talked about is a guy who's only 286 lb, who was losing weight, and who had a job.

For reference, I weigh more than that, and have 0 healthcare costs to anybody, have a job, am able to run, jump, swim, etc., and am not on welfare or anything.

It's a shitty, moronic piece of discrimination, either aimed at superficial expulsion of "fatties", or reaching for any kind of demerit to get rid of "dirty immigrants".

Not to mention that this is New Zealand. A country where a significant proportion of the population are Pacific Islanders (who tend not to be the slimmest of people), where rugby is the national sport, and therefore where a lot of their sporting heroes are considered obese according to weight/height alone...

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby addams » Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:27 pm UTC

That is fan-fiction?
The internet is famous for fan-fiction.

What the fuck is that a Fan of?
yuck. This is What? Not funny.

Where did we hide our sense of humor?
Did we ever have one? That was not funny and it either was not true or eeewww.
Where does That Guy live?

eeewwww. What do we know? We, the xkcd? What do we know?
There are Rules.
1. Do not feed Trolls.

If it becomes necessary to have a person checked on, Because that person may need help. (?)
I don't know how to trace a computer from its interaction with a web site. Someone does.

Who? Who does?
Most people that were born with a computer in their laps can trace their friends anywhere on The Planet.
That is true. Correct? Once a child starts tracing friends that child can track anyone.

Like any tool. It must be easy for those that know how to use it.
I like that about tools. They are The Great Equalizers.

Trolls attempt to guide the conversation.
One person at one time in the distant past on xkcd stated over and over.
"If I don't feed the Trolls, who will?" Or; Something nearly that.

We could One Up the Troll. That might be a Race to the Bottom.
We all Know there is no bottom. We live on a big round ball.

All the way Down is Up.
All the way Up is the same thing; Faster and a Different direction.

Where is the Ice Cube? On this Forum somewhere I read that there is a Huge Ice Cube out there, Somewhere.
That the Japanese are not taking it to Okinawa is a little disappointing to me.

I would love to see The News. Japan's Ice Cube Get A Way.

It could be so much fun. Little boats going to The Cube.
Trails for walking. Those things with metal that strap onto the shoes for walking on Ice.
Everyone gets a pair going onto The Cube. Everyone turns their metal shoe Jewelry in when departing The Cube.

The Artists could make a lovely basin that fills to a rim under which water can be caught and consumed.
Ten Thousand Year Old Water. How Great! Little bottles of Old Water taken from an old source?

The trails people walk will quickly become Canyons.
The young people will always want to slide into the water.
I hope those people are careful. That is a Big Ice cube.

Like Lourdes; With a little more adventure thrown in.
That would be funny News. Why have you xkcd types stopped doing Math?

How many tug boats would it take to start that thing moving in One Direction?
Once it is moving, four or five could keep it going. Go get it! Fetch!

Why? No one is going after the Ice Cube?
We are capable of such delightful things.

Working together a group of people can move an Ice Cube.
If we all Think very very hard; Will the Ice Cube go to Okinawa?

They know what to do with Ice. Play with it!
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:28 am UTC

morriswalters wrote:
Spoiler:
CorruptUser wrote:I'm not even sure some of the morbidly obese even have a sense of shame. I have a friend who is a firefighter, and he often has to deal with the morbidly obese, because the paramedics and police don't want to (he has own revenge on the cops; he lets them look in the buckets*). You have these 700 lb guys who more or less live in their bathtubs. They don't directly crap in the toilet, they scoop it out of the tubs with their hands to throw it in the toilet. Sometimes they get stuck and can't get out of the tub, and that's when my friend has to come in. The firefighters cut a hole in the walls and roll the guy onto a piece of plywood, and then 4+ guys will drag and push the giant mound of flesh down the stairs and out of the building (the fattest people always live on the top floor of a walkup, always) where the paramedics then load him into a special ambulance.

I was speaking with a gastro-intestinal doctor a few weeks ago, and he doesn't like dealing with the bariatric patients. They are given the surgery without any extra consultations, so he has to explain to them the reason they keep vomiting is because the surgery is specifically designed to prevent them from eating too much. About 1/8th of obesity is caused by other medical problems, often as a side-effect from medication needed for said problems. Sometimes the patients come in, "hey doc, thanks for the new medication, it worked great. Except, it was suppressing my appetite and I ended up losing 100 lbs, but I was able to work with my medication and now I'm eating normally again and I'm back up to 500 lbs!"

*In a building with a bunch of 5-10 gallon sealed buckets, never open the bucket. Never ever ever. That's the policeman's job, let him look in the bucket. Don't move the bucket. Don't touch the bucket. Don't even acknowledge that there is even a bucket there. If you have to look in the bucket, please wait until I'm out of the building.


They have one.


Not everyone has one.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby morriswalters » Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:51 am UTC

If you choose to think that the people you describe, as you describe them can no longer feel shame then who am I to try and tell you differently. Think what you will.

Morris Walters

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby eSOANEM » Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:43 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:
morriswalters wrote:
Spoiler:
CorruptUser wrote:I'm not even sure some of the morbidly obese even have a sense of shame. I have a friend who is a firefighter, and he often has to deal with the morbidly obese, because the paramedics and police don't want to (he has own revenge on the cops; he lets them look in the buckets*). You have these 700 lb guys who more or less live in their bathtubs. They don't directly crap in the toilet, they scoop it out of the tubs with their hands to throw it in the toilet. Sometimes they get stuck and can't get out of the tub, and that's when my friend has to come in. The firefighters cut a hole in the walls and roll the guy onto a piece of plywood, and then 4+ guys will drag and push the giant mound of flesh down the stairs and out of the building (the fattest people always live on the top floor of a walkup, always) where the paramedics then load him into a special ambulance.

I was speaking with a gastro-intestinal doctor a few weeks ago, and he doesn't like dealing with the bariatric patients. They are given the surgery without any extra consultations, so he has to explain to them the reason they keep vomiting is because the surgery is specifically designed to prevent them from eating too much. About 1/8th of obesity is caused by other medical problems, often as a side-effect from medication needed for said problems. Sometimes the patients come in, "hey doc, thanks for the new medication, it worked great. Except, it was suppressing my appetite and I ended up losing 100 lbs, but I was able to work with my medication and now I'm eating normally again and I'm back up to 500 lbs!"

*In a building with a bunch of 5-10 gallon sealed buckets, never open the bucket. Never ever ever. That's the policeman's job, let him look in the bucket. Don't move the bucket. Don't touch the bucket. Don't even acknowledge that there is even a bucket there. If you have to look in the bucket, please wait until I'm out of the building.


They have one.


Not everyone has one.


I suspect they do. I suspect they've buried it as a coping mechanism to allow them to live life without having souls crushed by asshats and their hatred.
my pronouns are they

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:23 am UTC

No sense of shame can be* found here.

I understand that sometimes it's a cycle of depression and public harassment that causes some to be shutins like the mother from What's Eating Gilbert Grape, but my sympathies end when you become a burden on the paramedics and everyone else.


*It should be noted in the Paul Mason case that he was a postal worker who was fired for stealing packages and checks and so forth. If he had been a crack addict instead of a junk food addict (he ate 40 bars of chocolate/day), would he get more or less sympathy?
Last edited by CorruptUser on Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:35 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby Carlington » Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:32 am UTC

Three people is certainly a large enough sample size to understand the relationship between the sample and the population.
You're doing statistics wrong, is what I'm saying. Especially when two of those people more than likely followed a thought process of "Fuck it, people will laugh at me either way, I may as well make turn it into something that works for me rather than against." and the third person is an unfortunate product of the mass-marketed reality-TV industry.
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Eebster the Great: What specifically is moving faster than light in these examples?
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:36 am UTC

Carlington wrote:Three people is certainly a large enough sample size to understand the relationship between the sample and the population.
You're doing statistics wrong, is what I'm saying. Especially when two of those people more than likely followed a thought process of "Fuck it, people will laugh at me either way, I may as well make turn it into something that works for me rather than against." and the third person is an unfortunate product of the mass-marketed reality-TV industry.


It's enough to say some.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby Carlington » Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:41 am UTC

It is, yes, but you didn't address the rest of my post.
Carlington wrote:Especially when two of those people more than likely followed a thought process of "Fuck it, people will laugh at me either way, I may as well make turn it into something that works for me rather than against." and the third person is an unfortunate product of the mass-marketed reality-TV industry.

There you go. To elaborate on this point, these people either feel so ashamed that they isolate themselves from the rest of the world completely, and you get the people your paramedic friend attends to, or they decide that they can at least turn the constant mockery into a positive, by doing something to attract it - that way, they can at least kid themselves that the people are only laughing at their antics, and isn't so heartless as to laugh at their physical appearance.
Kewangji: Posdy zwei tosdy osdy oady. Bork bork bork, hoppity syphilis bork.

Eebster the Great: What specifically is moving faster than light in these examples?
doogly: Hands waving furiously.

Please use he/him/his pronouns when referring to me.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby KrytenKoro » Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:57 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:It's enough to say some.

Sure, it backs up your original claim that there are some morbidly obese people that are not ashamed of their condition.

It's still a pretty meaningless claim, as far as I can see. Just because some people have said "fuck it, I'm not going to let the world tell me that I don't have the right to exist because of my body" doesn't justify governments discriminating against able-bodied, productive persons because they don't fit that governments definitions of which immigrants aren't fatty-fatty fat-fats, fatty magoos.

If you had a different point with the shame thing, please clarify it.
From the elegant yelling of this compelling dispute comes the ghastly suspicion my opposition's a fruit.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:09 pm UTC

Oh I agree that NZ's metrics are a bit pigheaded, especially so when you don't even bother to inform people that your metrics change.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby morriswalters » Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:45 pm UTC

What exactly is it that you are trying to show? Shame, if it exists in someone, doesn't have a face. It isn't written on the forehead, and it it quite possible to feel it without showing external markers at all. How do you know what is going on in peoples heads? Are you perhaps psychic?

Your doctor friend should pass on those patients if he doesn't like them, doing them a favor as well as one for himself. If you can't empathize with your patients you don't bring your A game out. Your friend who is a fireman should find other work if this bothers him, it's getting worse earlier in life for a greater number of people. So he is likely to see more and more of it. I don't like it, I wish it wasn't true, but it is.

Bariatric surgery has a high complication rate. One might assume that one had reached a certain level of unhappiness with his condition to undertake it. The most successful form of it may require the addition of supplements by injection or diet for the rest of your life. That he runs into patients who haven't been counseled says more about surgeons than the patients, since such counseling is a recommended part of the regime.

For that fat person the end game might well be somewhere close to what you wrote for some people. It's purely a matter of mechanics. Your body isn't designed for that much weight. Strap 500 lbs of weight evenly distributed over your body. Then try moving and sleeping, sitting on the commode, taking a bath. Sex obviously is out of the picture. So is almost everything else. How do they get that way? They ate too much. Why did they? Nobody has a clear idea about that. Why is it so hard to change it after it starts? Poor researchers haven't figured it out

The New Zealand government has a point. The problem is that they were inconsistent. They never should have allowed the guy in rather than let him in and then kick him out. They are going to get slammed in terms of the long term costs since they have a large problem. It is not unrealistic to believe that they would ban immigrants over a certain body mass at some point. And you can't blame them for that. Your post was offensive because you leaped from New Zealand to a 700 pound guy in a tub surrounded by buckets of what I can only assume to be shit. You took an extreme case to make a point and did it in the most offensive way possible.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:09 pm UTC

That a small portion of people are happy with a grade 3+ panniculus (fat hanging over the legs). Most people see the obese and immediately assume that the fat person must be unhappy with being fat because they couldn't imagine being happy with being fat.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby morriswalters » Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:01 pm UTC

Happiness is a piss poor metric. It's a measure of how you are feeling at a given moment. Nobody is unhappy every moment. Nor are they happy every waking minute. The word gets tossed around on XKCD as is it were meaningful in some grand certain way. Looking at overall quality of life, assume that the morbidly obese will have a considerably different experience than someone closer to an ideal body mass index. They will be less popular, will have a harder time finding a partner, and generally speaking find that everything they do is more difficult. It gets worse as they age. They will have anxiety every time they end up in an uncontrolled environment. Things break, chairs are too small, children stare and parents whisper. Surgery is more dangerous. Falls are more dangerous. Travel is dangerous and stressful. As the body ages mobility decreases. They will face problems if they fly or move on public conveyances. People feel they take up the space which is at a premium. And so on. Quit slapping one word tags like happy on a problem that is too complex for simple one word tags. I don't think you have to be sympathetic, but don't assume knowledge of someones internal feeling that you can't possibly have.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:45 pm UTC

Eh, happiness is the only thing that matters in this stupid world.

It's hard to measure, being more or less utility. Correct me I'm wrong on that.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:20 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Eh, happiness is the only thing that matters in this stupid world.

It's hard to measure, being more or less utility. Correct me I'm wrong on that.


It matters, but I wouldn't say it's the only thing that matters.

After all, we can produce giant piles of happiness via drugs, if that's all you're interested in. Hell, it's not impossible that we'll figure out which bits in your brain to stimulate to produce any amount of happiness you desire. Would you want such a device wired to your head, and if not, why?

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby addams » Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:24 pm UTC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1bFr2SWP1I

I think I might be more interested in Who is inside that Fat more than the Fat.

Do Fat People die early?
Yes. sometimes they do.

The Point? Will that NZ man miss his Home?
Izzy'z Home missed him.

I did not know the Man. You? Did you know him?
Heard of him? Like his voice? Fingernails on Black Board?
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby morriswalters » Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:47 pm UTC

If I take an overdose of heroine I will be happy until I'm not. At which point I will be on my way to being dead. Food makes me happy. I want to maximize happiness. I will eat lots of food. Can you see the correlation? If happiness economics make the world understandable to you then you have my best wishes. But please don't assume that morbidly obese people are shame free because you can't see it. Self destructive behavior often is accompanied by overt displays of happiness. A lot of times used as a defense measure. And don't assume that the drivers of the behavior of obesity are simple. A lot of very well motivated , very intelligent people, haven't found the answer to this point.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby addams » Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:53 pm UTC

Some people are born into one kind of body.
Other people are born into a different kind of body.

We are only internet people.
Very two D.

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Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

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Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby MartianInvader » Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:17 pm UTC

Happiness via doing drugs isn't sustainable, and so results in less happiness in the long term. Unless that drug is sustainable like caffeine, in which case, well, the masses have spoken.

We should really just build a giant computer to figure out how to maximize total happiness, right?
Let's have a fervent argument, mostly over semantics, where we all claim the burden of proof is on the other side!

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:10 am UTC

No, my personal moral system values mainly the utility of those who add to the total utility of everyone else. That is, the people whose existence creates a net positive utility not including their own; the person who gains more through theft than his victims lose is not a moral person.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:28 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Eh, happiness is the only thing that matters in this stupid world.

It's hard to measure, being more or less utility. Correct me I'm wrong on that.

As an aside, I've found it really annoying in general when people cite a comic that somewhat, kind of sort of, supports the statement/position that they are making. Randall Monroe isn't some fucking arbiter of The Way Things Are, and just because he wrote a comic that included the phrase 'happiness is the only thing that matters' doesn't mean it supports your position. Context matters.
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby addams » Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:34 am UTC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1bFr2SWP1I
Was Izzy a Moral Person?

Did you think he was a King?
He sure looked like one.

Was He Moral? Did he like it when The People were Happy?
It makes such a nice Fairy Tail.

What are You talking about?
Is it funny? In What Way?

Izzy had other Native Friends.
Remember when Gabby died?

No? So, strange. I do.
He shared his grief with The World.

Not really on purpose.
He sings, so he sung a song to a Friend he Loved Dearly.
Maybe. It is a Fairy Tail! Izzy sang at Gabby's Funeral?

Was he away when he heard Gabby was dead?

Heart attack. We die early.
To live and live well.
To love and love well.


Who cares how long The Thing Lives.
A cat runs out of lives before most Humans.

It is still possible to love one.
Even if it does not Love in Return.

Cats and Big ole Fancy Stars.
We know they exist.
We sometimes make it into their peripheral vision.

Izzy was a Star.
Izzy was a King.
Izzy was a Man.

How old was Izzy?
Izzy was Only 38 Years Old!

He had a lot of living to do in a small number of years.
Did that guy Travel much?

Why would He? The world came to Him.
He lived in Paradise!

He left his voice behind.
The Technology Exists for The World to hear his voice.

Even..... after....... he...... is...... dead.............. That is kind of creepy.
Say those words Real, Real Slow.
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:54 am UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:Eh, happiness is the only thing that matters in this stupid world.

It's hard to measure, being more or less utility. Correct me I'm wrong on that.

As an aside, I've found it really annoying in general when people cite a comic that somewhat, kind of sort of, supports the statement/position that they are making. Randall Monroe isn't some fucking arbiter of The Way Things Are, and just because he wrote a comic that included the phrase 'happiness is the only thing that matters' doesn't mean it supports your position. Context matters.


Considering that to the various forms of Utilitarians, Utility is generally considered to be a measure of overall happiness, to Utilitarians, happiness is pretty much what matters.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:35 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:No, my personal moral system values mainly the utility of those who add to the total utility of everyone else. That is, the people whose existence creates a net positive utility not including their own; the person who gains more through theft than his victims lose is not a moral person.


Same problem still exists, it's just slightly more complex. What happens if a given pair of people are particularly happiness prone, and they use their resources to make the other happy? Let's call these folks Bonnie and Clyde. Is it moral to redistribute wealth from, say, Sad Keanu so one of these people are happy?

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby Fire Brns » Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:36 am UTC

Time to break up the serious arguments.

World War Two code breaker Alan Turing set to be pardoned for his gay conviction
I always find stuff like this odd, it doesn't mend the injustices. It's the same government but not the same politicians so to me I read it as "We're sorry for what those other guys did even though you can't hear us because you're dead."
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby addams » Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:57 am UTC

Fire Brns wrote:Time to break up the serious arguments.

World War Two code breaker Alan Turing set to be pardoned for his gay conviction
I always find stuff like this odd, it doesn't mend the injustices. It's the same government but not the same politicians so to me I read it as "We're sorry for what those other guys did even though you can't hear us because you're dead."


We are Horrible.
A posthumouss pardon will not help that man.
It would help lovely young gay men, today.
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby Thesh » Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:02 am UTC

Fire Brns wrote:I always find stuff like this odd, it doesn't mend the injustices. It's the same government but not the same politicians so to me I read it as "We're sorry for what those other guys did even though you can't hear us because you're dead."


It's more about embracing the fact that we, as a society, have evolved. What we did in the past that was considered okay is now considered absolutely horrible. We should remember events like this, because it reminds us that right and wrong are subjective and we need to respect who other people are, provided who they are isn't directly harming others (e.g. we don't have to embrace the fact that someone is a serial killer).
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby yurell » Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:10 am UTC

"We recognise we were wrong, and we've dealt untold harm to this person, their family & friends, and to humanity as a whole. That said, we won't offer reparations, just a half-hearted apology to make us look progressive."
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby bentheimmigrant » Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:30 am UTC

"Comment is free, but facts are sacred" - C.P. Scott

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby eSOANEM » Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:47 am UTC

Fire Brns wrote:Time to break up the serious arguments.

World War Two code breaker Alan Turing set to be pardoned for his gay conviction
I always find stuff like this odd, it doesn't mend the injustices. It's the same government but not the same politicians so to me I read it as "We're sorry for what those other guys did even though you can't hear us because you're dead."


Agreed.

Also the fact that Alan Turing is being pardoned but no-one else who suffered similar treatment is is disgusting. It turns what could have been at best a half-arsed acknowledgement that society used to be pretty shitty towards gay people into a statement that it was only shitty if you happened to be a genius who helped win the war.

Posthumous pardons generally seem like a weird idea to me. The person can't be pardoned in any real sense because they're dead. It's fair enough to have a press release or something saying "yeah, we were shitty back then. We realise that and we're going to try not to be so shitty in future". That would be a good thing (provided they make it more general than just "yeah, we were a dick to this one guy".

Still, it makes a tiny bit more sense than when Gordon Brown apologised for the British slave trade. He was not involved in it and no-one who could have heard it was involved either. As such an apology is a bizarre idea. It wasn't an apology, it was an acknowledgement of the bad things the UK had done in the past and pretending it was an apology just makes a farce of the whole thing.
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:57 pm UTC

Does a posthumous pardon mean that the government can be held liable for damages by the person's heirs?

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby bentheimmigrant » Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:39 pm UTC

eSOANEM wrote:It wasn't an apology, it was an acknowledgement of the bad things the UK had done in the past and pretending it was an apology just makes a farce of the whole thing.

See, the thing is, acknowledging past wrong-doing (which is a great thing to do, as the institution remains, despite having different people) is really difficult to do without apologising. "Britain acknowledges it's role in slave-trading" doesn't really mean anything more than "Britain acknowledges mixing yellow and red results in orange". Without some kind of condemnation of the role, it is just stating facts. So now we've moved onto voicing disapproval; "Britain acknowledges its role in the atrocious act of slave-trading". And so we're pretty much most of the way to an apology already.

The people involved aren't the only ones affected. I'd daresay that a great number of the descendants of slavery still feel its effect in some way, and maybe the best we can do is apologise for what our country did to their ancestors. Calling it a farce because none of it means anything to you does not preclude it from meaning anything to someone else.
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby firechicago » Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:27 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Does a posthumous pardon mean that the government can be held liable for damages by the person's heirs?

No, because being pardoned is different from being wrongly convicted.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby DSenette » Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:32 pm UTC

yeah....a pardon doesn't mean you're not guilty. it just means that you're released from your sentence....for being totally guilty because "we the government" totally got it right when we convicted you of being "the gay" because there's nothing wrong with it being a crime.

if they wanted to do something meaningful they would actually declare the laws of that time to have been unjust and reprehensible and not only pardon turing (and any/all other people convicted under those laws) but vacate the convictions and officially declare everyone convicted under them as wrongfully convicted.

of course...then those lawsuits would show up
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