In other news... (humorous news items)

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CorruptUser
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:30 pm UTC

yurell wrote:For those unaware, since 'Allah' is simply the word 'God' in Arabic — to put the words in English, they have banned the use of the word 'God' in any context not referring to the Islamic deity.


Except that Allah refers to the Moon god in the Arabic pantheon, which Mohammed during his time declared to be the Abrahamic god. Thus the crescent as the symbol of Islam. It's the same as, if for example, Alexander the Great had declared the Apollo was the only god that was real, but Apollo was also Ahura Mazda (the Zoroastrian god).

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby bigglesworth » Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:49 pm UTC

The association between the supreme god of the Arabs and the Abrahamic god was formed long before Mohammed was born.
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby KnightExemplar » Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:36 pm UTC

bigglesworth wrote:The association between the supreme god of the Arabs and the Abrahamic god was formed long before Mohammed was born.


Indeed. Abraham is a holy prophet for Muslims. They don't consider Jews or Christians to be "of the book" per se, but it is in the extended family of religions. We all actually worship the same God. The stories of Abraham vary between the religions, but it is quite clear that Abraham is in fact "Ibraham". And the God of Abraham is what proves everyone is sorta from the same cloth on this one...

Sure, Muslims may spell it "Ibraham", but he's definitely the guy who took his son out for sacrifice, and then Allah / God decided human sacrifice wasn't his thing and gave him a Sheep instead. Muslims think the potential human sacrifice was Ishmael (by tradition, not stated in Quran), Jews / Christians think it was Isaac. In both religions, Abraham / Ibraham had sons named Ishmael and Isaac. The "God of Abraham", "Abraham's Friend" and other such titles are actually shared between the three religions as well.
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby bigglesworth » Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:18 pm UTC

That's not at all what I'm talking about. I should have specified "the supreme god of the pre-Islamic Arabs" I suppose.
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:27 pm UTC

krogoth wrote:I find it unacceptable that people start talking about how awesome the Son of God is, and I'm like "Hercules? yeah one heck of a guy that one." And they are all offended. Since they didn't specify which god, or denomination or interpretation of the god they are expecting me to just somehow know what one of millions of possible gods they follow. And they probably couldn't describe the difference between the catholic god and 90% of the others.


I referred to communion as "soylent christ" once. Apparently, this is offensive. Everyone gets ALL offended over all the religious things unless you care about the same things they do, evidently.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby eSOANEM » Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:58 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:
yurell wrote:For those unaware, since 'Allah' is simply the word 'God' in Arabic — to put the words in English, they have banned the use of the word 'God' in any context not referring to the Islamic deity.


Except that Allah refers to the Moon god in the Arabic pantheon, which Mohammed during his time declared to be the Abrahamic god. Thus the crescent as the symbol of Islam. It's the same as, if for example, Alexander the Great had declared the Apollo was the only god that was real, but Apollo was also Ahura Mazda (the Zoroastrian god).


The two are actually more similar than it might seem at first and Mohammed's identification is actually well-justified.

The Olympian religion and Zoroastrianism were both branches of the proto-indo-european religion one of which had drastically reduced the pantheon.

The old Arabian religion and Judaism are both branches of the ancient Semitic religion (Allah and Elohim are actually cognate theonyms) one of which had drastically reduced the pantheon.

The association of Allah and the god of Abrahim then is entirely reasonable. In the same sense as Zeus, Jupiter and Týr were all the same gods, so too are Allah and El.

The association between Ahura Mazda and Apollo is harder to justify because, despite the religions being descendants of the same earlier religion, the theonyms aren't cognate (Ahura Mazda appears to be a title invented by Zoroaster) and that the way in which the pantheon was reduced in each case is different: the Israelites first promoted their god as more powerful and also jealous which, over time, led to the current monotheism; Zoroaster on the other hand merged a lot of gods and demoted others to less spirits more or less in one go.

With a bit more knowledge about what was going on than Alexander would have had, we can see that a more accurate identification is between Ahura Mazda and the Twelve Olympians (or, had Alexander known Norse mythology, the Æsir (which "Ahura" is cognate with).
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby Djehutynakht » Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:05 pm UTC

krogoth wrote:I find it unacceptable that people start talking about how awesome the Son of God is, and I'm like "Hercules? yeah one heck of a guy that one." And they are all offended. Since they didn't specify which god, or denomination or interpretation of the god they are expecting me to just somehow know what one of millions of possible gods they follow. And they probably couldn't describe the difference between the catholic god and 90% of the others.


I think you mean Christian God, as not all Christians are Catholics (and indeed some evangelicals have issues with those who still follow the Pope).

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby addams » Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:59 am UTC

krogoth wrote:I find it unacceptable that people start talking about how awesome the Son of God is, and I'm like "Hercules? yeah one heck of a guy that one." And they are all offended. Since they didn't specify which god, or denomination or interpretation of the god they are expecting me to just somehow know what one of millions of possible gods they follow. And they probably couldn't describe the difference between the catholic god and 90% of the others.


I am with you....?
I think.

Religion is Nice.
To consider our choices is Nice.

To be told there is ONE choice and ONE choice, only is a bit unnerving.

Do you feel and Evangelical Passion rising from within?
Do you want to tell them what they are missing?

If they ask, tell them The Truth.
If they tell, You can tell them you are still a fan of "Don't Ask/Don't Tell."

If I don't ask you about your Religion, You don't tell me.
If you ask, You are going to get an Earful.

Thor? Hercules is Son of Thor?
Nah.

See?
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby WilliamLehnsherr » Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:02 am UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:Indeed. Abraham is a holy prophet for Muslims. They don't consider Jews or Christians to be "of the book" per se, but it is in the extended family of religions. We all actually worship the same God.


It always bothers me when people say that Jews, Christians, and Muslims all worship the same God. They're very similar, but there's enough difference between them to say that they're different Gods. For example, Jesus is the Son of God (and also God) in Christianity but not in Islam or Judaism. That's a pretty substantial difference to me.

But maybe I'm being too pedantic. Is Andrew Garfield's Spider-man the same character as Tobey Maguire's Spider-man? (Yep, that's the comparison I'm going with).

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby addams » Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:18 am UTC

WilliamLehnsherr wrote:
KnightExemplar wrote:Indeed. Abraham is a holy prophet for Muslims. They don't consider Jews or Christians to be "of the book" per se, but it is in the extended family of religions. We all actually worship the same God.


It always bothers me when people say that Jews, Christians, and Muslims all worship the same God. They're very similar, but there's enough difference between them to say that they're different Gods. For example, Jesus is the Son of God (and also God) in Christianity but not in Islam or Judaism. That's a pretty substantial difference to me.

But maybe I'm being too pedantic. Is Andrew Garfield's Spider-man the same character as Tobey Maguire's Spider-man? (Yep, that's the comparison I'm going with).

That is a nice way to look at the concept.
Each person has a Personal Take.

You may have learned the name for the color Orange at home.
You may have learned the name for the color Orange at school.

You may have learned it on the street or at work.
A cute girl may have told you. You learned it.

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You naming God has very little to do with my opinion of My Heroes.
Please don't write about Religion, thoughtlessly.

The Forum Index has directions to threads about Religion.
I don't care who you pray to or who you fuck.

Loads of people Do want to know.
There are threads for one or the other.

I am willing to bet there are threads about Both!
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Don't Make Me Look!
I might laugh.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
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Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby elasto » Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:56 am UTC

Don't think this has been posted anywhere else yet, but not sure it deserves a thread of its own:

A federal judge has ruled the US no-fly list has deprived 13 people of their constitutional right to travel without giving them a way to clear their names.

In Oregon, US District Judge Anna Brown ordered the justice department to devise a mechanism for people on the list to appeal against their inclusion.

The plaintiffs who sued in 2010 include four veterans and the leader of Portland's largest mosque.

People on the no-fly list are banned from boarding flights over US airspace.

The US justice department said it was reviewing the ruling on Tuesday. For now, the decision is limited in its impact, as the justice department could appeal against it.

In her order, Judge Brown directed the justice department to find a way to disclose unclassified information about why someone is on the no-fly list, which is maintained by the FBI. She also said the US should disclose to those barred from flying the nature of the classified information against them, including the type of threat they allegedly pose to national security and ways in which they can respond or correct erroneous information.

Many of those in the lawsuit were prevented from reuniting with family or studying overseas. Others took lengthy journeys overland, being interrogated along the way, or attempted to sail but were rebuffed based on the advice of immigration officials.

"With perhaps the exception of travel to a small number of countries in North and Central America, a prohibition on flying turns routine international travel into an odyssey that imposes significant logistical, economic, and physical demands on travellers," she wrote in the ruling.

The American Civil Liberties Union, which was involved in the case, hailed the decision in a statement.

"For years, in the name of national security the government has argued for blanket secrecy and judicial deference to its profoundly unfair No Fly List procedures, and those arguments have now been resoundingly rejected by the court," Hina Shamsi, who argued the case, said. "We hope this serves as a wake-up call for the government to fix its broken watch list system, which has swept up so many innocent people."


While I don't think air travel is a human right or anything, I do think it's a sound principle of natural justice that people be allowed to face their accusers and have the opportunity to correct mistakes.

So many principles have been sacrificed on the altar of 'the war on terror' and this was just one small example.

link

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby WilliamLehnsherr » Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:32 am UTC

addams wrote:
WilliamLehnsherr wrote:
KnightExemplar wrote:Indeed. Abraham is a holy prophet for Muslims. They don't consider Jews or Christians to be "of the book" per se, but it is in the extended family of religions. We all actually worship the same God.


It always bothers me when people say that Jews, Christians, and Muslims all worship the same God. They're very similar, but there's enough difference between them to say that they're different Gods. For example, Jesus is the Son of God (and also God) in Christianity but not in Islam or Judaism. That's a pretty substantial difference to me.

But maybe I'm being too pedantic. Is Andrew Garfield's Spider-man the same character as Tobey Maguire's Spider-man? (Yep, that's the comparison I'm going with).

That is a nice way to look at the concept.
Each person has a Personal Take.

You may have learned the name for the color Orange at home.
You may have learned the name for the color Orange at school.

You may have learned it on the street or at work.
A cute girl may have told you. You learned it.

When a person sculpts their Internal Man, no matter the tool used;
We recognize the cultivation of fine qualities in the Man Within.

You naming God has very little to do with my opinion of My Heroes.
Please don't write about Religion, thoughtlessly.


The Forum Index has directions to threads about Religion.
I don't care who you pray to or who you fuck.

Loads of people Do want to know.
There are threads for one or the other.

I am willing to bet there are threads about Both!
At the Same Time! Rule 34! There is Porn about it.

Don't Make Me Look!
I might laugh.


I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say but I'm under the impression I've offended you in some way (based on the part of your post I put in bold).

I don't have much of an interest in debating religion and certainly have no interest in telling anyone their religion is wrong. I was just commenting on how I don't think you can call something the same if there are a lot of differences.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby Jave D » Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:49 am UTC

WilliamLehnsherr wrote:
KnightExemplar wrote:Indeed. Abraham is a holy prophet for Muslims. They don't consider Jews or Christians to be "of the book" per se, but it is in the extended family of religions. We all actually worship the same God.


It always bothers me when people say that Jews, Christians, and Muslims all worship the same God. They're very similar, but there's enough difference between them to say that they're different Gods. For example, Jesus is the Son of God (and also God) in Christianity but not in Islam or Judaism. That's a pretty substantial difference to me.

But maybe I'm being too pedantic. Is Andrew Garfield's Spider-man the same character as Tobey Maguire's Spider-man? (Yep, that's the comparison I'm going with).


Jesus is a son of God... just like every other man on earth, since God is the father of man.

If you believe in one God, the members of other religions who also believe in one God still believe in the one God - they just differ in other areas. Technicalities. The only other explanation is that they believe in a false god, a demon - but since they ascribe to this God all the basic features of God, this makes just about no sense: "Oh, you believe in an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving Creator who made man and earth and the heavens, who judges us right or wrong and hopes for us to be virtuous and not sinful? YOU DEMON WORSHIPER!"

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby Djehutynakht » Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:04 am UTC

Jave D wrote:Jesus is a son of God... just like every other man on earth, since God is the father of man.


Well technically, Jesus is himself God in the Christian religion. He just takes the place of "son" in the trinity, though technically the three parts are all one God... I forget exactly the theology behind this.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby addams » Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:48 am UTC

What the Gods are like does make for funny News.
http://nation.foxnews.com/2013/12/21/me ... a-comments

God, Jesus and Santa have color!

Loads of color.
Big f-ing deal.

He who controls the conversation, colors Santa?
How about Black Peter? His color is not optional?

I think Black Pete did the paperwork.
Black Pete would be The Guy to know.
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We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
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Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby eSOANEM » Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:43 am UTC

Djehutynakht wrote:
Jave D wrote:Jesus is a son of God... just like every other man on earth, since God is the father of man.


Well technically, Jesus is himself God in the Christian religion. He just takes the place of "son" in the trinity, though technically the three parts are all one God... I forget exactly the theology behind this.


My experience is that Christians sometimes use God to refer to the whole trinity, but more usually use it to mean just the father who definitely is the same god as that of Judaism and Islam (as discussed in my earlier post).

Jave D wrote:
WilliamLehnsherr wrote:
KnightExemplar wrote:Indeed. Abraham is a holy prophet for Muslims. They don't consider Jews or Christians to be "of the book" per se, but it is in the extended family of religions. We all actually worship the same God.


It always bothers me when people say that Jews, Christians, and Muslims all worship the same God. They're very similar, but there's enough difference between them to say that they're different Gods. For example, Jesus is the Son of God (and also God) in Christianity but not in Islam or Judaism. That's a pretty substantial difference to me.

But maybe I'm being too pedantic. Is Andrew Garfield's Spider-man the same character as Tobey Maguire's Spider-man? (Yep, that's the comparison I'm going with).


Jesus is a son of God... just like every other man on earth, since God is the father of man.

If you believe in one God, the members of other religions who also believe in one God still believe in the one God - they just differ in other areas. Technicalities. The only other explanation is that they believe in a false god, a demon - but since they ascribe to this God all the basic features of God, this makes just about no sense: "Oh, you believe in an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving Creator who made man and earth and the heavens, who judges us right or wrong and hopes for us to be virtuous and not sinful? YOU DEMON WORSHIPER!"


Identifying the gods of all monotheistic religions is a tricky business. If there are no genetic links (like there are between Islam, Judaism and Christianity for instance) one must draw a line in the sand saying how different two gods must be before they stop being the same. Then you get into issues where you might have a series of gods such that each one is the "same" as its neighbours but that the two at either end are indisputably different. Now your notion of equivalence is no longer an equivalence relation.

This is an issue if you're trying to identify things as the same.

I'll stick with genetic identifications myself (the neatest one that I know being that of Tyr, Jupiter and Zeus with the PIE *Dewos)
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby bigglesworth » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:07 am UTC

WilliamLehnsherr wrote:For example, Jesus is the Son of God (and also God) in Christianity but not in Islam or Judaism. That's a pretty substantial difference to me.
If I claim that Joe Bloggs has a son, but you claim he's a virgin, are we talking about the same man?
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby Djehutynakht » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:13 am UTC

bigglesworth wrote:
WilliamLehnsherr wrote:For example, Jesus is the Son of God (and also God) in Christianity but not in Islam or Judaism. That's a pretty substantial difference to me.
If I claim that Joe Bloggs has a son, but you claim he's a virgin, are we talking about the same man?


One could claim that you are, but one of you has the details mixed up.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby WilliamLehnsherr » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:51 am UTC

bigglesworth wrote:
WilliamLehnsherr wrote:For example, Jesus is the Son of God (and also God) in Christianity but not in Islam or Judaism. That's a pretty substantial difference to me.
If I claim that Joe Bloggs has a son, but you claim he's a virgin, are we talking about the same man?


Yeah, scenarios like that crossed my mind. Some conspiracy theorists believe George W. Bush was involved in 9/11, but does that mean they believe in a different George W. Bush? In that case, I'd say both I and the conspiracy theorist believe in the same George Bush, it's just that one of us, as Djehutynakht said, has the facts mixed up.

But that's because Bush is a person who is known to exist. We can physically point to him. If we both walk up to him (let's say the secret service fell asleep) and speak to him, we are talking to the same person. It makes no difference what each of us think of him.

On the other hand there are many different versions of God, and there isn't one which can be pointed at as being the "definitive" one. When religious people pray, they're praying to the God they believe in. Christians are praying specifically to a God who is the Father of Jesus (and is also Jesus... I went to Catholic school for thirteen years and I'm still not entirely sure how to go about that). Jews and Muslims pray specifically to a God who isn't the father of Jesus. The way I see it, they're praying to different Gods.

I'm sure comparing God to a fictitious character annoys some people, but I think my Spider-man comparison was better suited. There are many different interpretations of the same character, and in light of all the major differences can you call them the same? Does someone who only likes Spider-man in the Garfield movies a fan of the character from the Maguire movies?

Like I said, I only started this because I disagree with the use of the word "same". We risk veering into an area better covered in another thread/board, if we haven't already.
Last edited by WilliamLehnsherr on Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:33 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby speising » Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:22 am UTC

but all three have the old testament as their foundation. did god split up with jesus and later again mohammed? that would be a strange interpretation, so it's more reasonable to say that at least two of them "have their details mixed up".

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby yurell » Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:54 am UTC

speising wrote:but all three have the old testament as their foundation. did god split up with jesus and later again mohammed? that would be a strange interpretation, so it's more reasonable to say that at least two of them "have their details mixed up".


Don't Muslims hold that the Old Testament and the New Testaments are corruptions of God's word, and that's why he saw the Qur'an created that we may have the incorruptible version?
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:33 pm UTC

And Christians hold that the Old Testament was made obsolete by the New Testament or something, which is why they can eat lobster and pork. But for some reason, homosexuality and masturbation and birth control are still sins despite only being banned in the old one. Funny how that goes.
Last edited by CorruptUser on Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:09 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby Heisenberg » Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:52 pm UTC

Theology: It's complicated.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby karhell » Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:05 pm UTC

Heisenberg wrote:Theology: It's complicated.

Humans: they're complicated
AluisioASG wrote:191 years ago, the great D. Pedro I drew his sword and said: "Indent thy code or die!"
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby eran_rathan » Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:33 pm UTC

I love having Jehovah's Witnesses & Mormons knock on my door.

Q: "Have you found God?"

my snarky responses:
"Why, did you lose yours?"
"Which one?"
"No - he is the best damn hide-and-seek player ever!"
"Yes! Hail Eris! Fnord!"
"Do you count making my wife scream 'Oh god!'?"
"No, but if you hum a few bars I can fake it."
"Yes... but probably not yours."
"Sorry, no. Have you tried putting up one of those 'Lost Cat' type posters?"
"That's a weird name for a dog...."
"Define God..."
(call to the back of the house) "Athena! Its for you!"
"Does this smell like chloroform to you?"
"Google tells me you are not unique. You are, however, wrong."
nɒʜƚɒɿ_nɒɿɘ

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby Kethryes » Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:43 pm UTC

Thread: is not titled "Religion" :roll:
(But I understand the frustration since the old one was closed)

Google pays customers to clean up Verizon mess... weird...
http://arstechnica.com/business/2014/06/google-gives-150-apology-to-chromebook-owners-deprived-of-verizon-data/
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby square_one » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:59 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:And Christians hold that the Old Testament was made obsolete by the New Testament or something, which is why they can eat lobster and pork. But for some reason, homosexuality and masturbation and birth control are still sins despite only being banned in the old one. Funny how that goes.


Not that the Old Testament was made obselete - more like, Jesus was the one to fulfill the requirements of the law, specifically in regards to civil, sacrificial, and cleanliness law. Moral law, especially that which was re-affirmed in the New Testament, still applies. I mean, Jesus talked about marriage, sex, and divorce in the gospels. So, at least in my opinion, there isn't a random or illogical picking and choosing of particular "sins". Many churches still preach from both testaments. And I've heard the New Testament likened to basically a commentary of the Old Testament.

Kethryes wrote:Google pays customers to clean up Verizon mess... weird...


That is kind of cool on Google's part. Odd, but cool I guess.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby addams » Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:08 pm UTC

Funny?
Was that funny?

This thread is aimed at funny.
Was that a hit or a miss?
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby KrytenKoro » Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:26 pm UTC

addams wrote:Funny?
Was that funny?

This thread is aimed at funny.
Was that a hit or a miss?

Agree. With this post, there's been at least four requests to get back on topic. Can we talk about funny news now?

Seeing time freeze = World's worst superpower?
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby krogoth » Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:32 am UTC

I wouldn't say worst, but it could be useful, most people in the article describe it as seeing "in detail" as we'll as slowed down, maybe that's related to how [urlhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1223790/Autistic-artist-draws-18ft-picture-New-York-skyline-memory.html]this guy drew this[/url]after one viewing (20 mins in a helicopter, beforehand). It would be interesting if we could reproduce this effect as required. Talk about game changing.
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby Jave D » Thu Jun 26, 2014 1:48 am UTC

eSOANEM wrote:Identifying the gods of all monotheistic religions is a tricky business. If there are no genetic links (like there are between Islam, Judaism and Christianity for instance) one must draw a line in the sand saying how different two gods must be before they stop being the same. Then you get into issues where you might have a series of gods such that each one is the "same" as its neighbours but that the two at either end are indisputably different. Now your notion of equivalence is no longer an equivalence relation.

This is an issue if you're trying to identify things as the same.


If 5 billion people worship a god or gods, because of the subjective nature of such belief, one could say that there would be at least 5 billion gods. Each one different from the other. If not in name, in some other way.

But while I can get that, as a believer, it makes more sense to me that there is and only ever was one God, and when we talk of "the Jewish God" or "the God of the Koran" etc we're not talking about different gods, but different conceptions of one God. And that this same applies to polytheistic systems too. It's sort of like if God were a source of light, then our conception of God would be like that light as seen passing through windows of different sizes, shapes, colors, thickness, materials, time of day etc. From a very simplistic perspective one might see and give names to each of the types of lights. (And murder other people who are looking through a different pane, because of course.) But in reality there's just the one light source.

Of course this is just my belief but it's one that makes the most sense to me. The alternative is that there is a God, but he gave the right and true answers (including about his name) to one particular group of people (or one person) and to everybody else he gave lies, for the lulz. Or that there are non-God-like but powerful, almost-godlike beings (demons) that pose as God and are worshiped as God but God has given no real means to distinguish between them and him, again, apparently to fuck with people. That doesn't match up with my own conception of what a divine being would do or be like, and it makes much more sense to me that people see the world through their own imperfect lens, and confuse their own beliefs (i.e. that God likes X or Y, and prefers to be called Z) with reality.

Of course I could be wrong. Maybe there's no light at all. Some days, most days, I feel that way.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby Djehutynakht » Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:18 am UTC

Push in US to name street of Chinese embassy after political prisoner.

The street holding the Chinese embassy in Washington DC could be renamed after a noted Chinese dissident.

An amendment attached to a state department budget bill would make the embassy's address 1 Liu Xiaobo Plaza.

Liu Xiaobo, a Nobel Peace Prize laureate, is serving an 11-year sentence for subversion in China.
...
Liu Xiaobo was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 2010, with the Nobel committee citing his fight for "a more open and democratic China" for more than two decades.

The amendment was attached to the yearly spending bill for the state department, which was approved by a House panel on Tuesday. The bill must still pass both the House and Senate.

In the 1980s, the street in front of the Soviet Embassy in Washington was named after dissident Andrei Sakharov.



I like it.

(and I dare China to hit back with something like "Snowden Avenue")

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby eSOANEM » Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:04 pm UTC

Jave D wrote:
eSOANEM wrote:Identifying the gods of all monotheistic religions is a tricky business. If there are no genetic links (like there are between Islam, Judaism and Christianity for instance) one must draw a line in the sand saying how different two gods must be before they stop being the same. Then you get into issues where you might have a series of gods such that each one is the "same" as its neighbours but that the two at either end are indisputably different. Now your notion of equivalence is no longer an equivalence relation.

This is an issue if you're trying to identify things as the same.


If 5 billion people worship a god or gods, because of the subjective nature of such belief, one could say that there would be at least 5 billion gods. Each one different from the other. If not in name, in some other way.

But while I can get that, as a believer, it makes more sense to me that there is and only ever was one God, and when we talk of "the Jewish God" or "the God of the Koran" etc we're not talking about different gods, but different conceptions of one God. And that this same applies to polytheistic systems too. It's sort of like if God were a source of light, then our conception of God would be like that light as seen passing through windows of different sizes, shapes, colors, thickness, materials, time of day etc. From a very simplistic perspective one might see and give names to each of the types of lights. (And murder other people who are looking through a different pane, because of course.) But in reality there's just the one light source.

Of course this is just my belief but it's one that makes the most sense to me. The alternative is that there is a God, but he gave the right and true answers (including about his name) to one particular group of people (or one person) and to everybody else he gave lies, for the lulz. Or that there are non-God-like but powerful, almost-godlike beings (demons) that pose as God and are worshiped as God but God has given no real means to distinguish between them and him, again, apparently to fuck with people. That doesn't match up with my own conception of what a divine being would do or be like, and it makes much more sense to me that people see the world through their own imperfect lens, and confuse their own beliefs (i.e. that God likes X or Y, and prefers to be called Z) with reality.

Of course I could be wrong. Maybe there's no light at all. Some days, most days, I feel that way.


All of this assumes benevolent monotheism so, that it concludes with benevolent monotheism being most likely isn't surprising.

Going back to your light analogy, what you're doing is saying "I think there's one light source and I know mirrors and coloured window panes are things, so one light source is possible. Therefore there is one light source" which isn't valid.

Anyway, what you're describing is quite similar to Baha'i as I understand it.
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby Tyndmyr » Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:12 pm UTC

KrytenKoro wrote:
addams wrote:Funny?
Was that funny?

This thread is aimed at funny.
Was that a hit or a miss?

Agree. With this post, there's been at least four requests to get back on topic. Can we talk about funny news now?

Seeing time freeze = World's worst superpower?


The time slowing in life or death scenarios, I can vouch for, and it's probably a very good thing. The aneurism...probably not so much.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby sardia » Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:16 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:
KrytenKoro wrote:
addams wrote:Funny?
Was that funny?

This thread is aimed at funny.
Was that a hit or a miss?

Agree. With this post, there's been at least four requests to get back on topic. Can we talk about funny news now?

Seeing time freeze = World's worst superpower?


The time slowing in life or death scenarios, I can vouch for, and it's probably a very good thing. The aneurism...probably not so much.

Studies suggest you aren't perceiving more. Eg. Push someone off a tower with a display in the ceiling. The display generates numbers at different rates. The test is to measure the subjects accuracy vs different display rates. Falling down a large distance is terrifying so it reliably generates bullettime.
Result is subjects were no better at reading numbers in bullet time compared to a control group

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby Tyndmyr » Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:19 pm UTC

sardia wrote:Studies suggest you aren't perceiving more. Eg. Push someone off a tower with a display in the ceiling. The display generates numbers at different rates. The test is to measure the subjects accuracy vs different display rates. Falling down a large distance is terrifying so it reliably generates bullettime.
Result is subjects were no better at reading numbers in bullet time compared to a control group


I suspect that there might be a distraction factor there as well. While I don't doubt that being pushed off a tower would trigger fear of death, etc, I would generally expect terrified people to be less focused on a display of numbers that is definitely not the source of their fear, and maybe more focused on the actual danger.

So, perhaps advantageous for dealing with the danger, even if it is not advantageous for unrelated tasks.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby sardia » Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:28 pm UTC

http://m.psychologytoday.com/blog/extre ... stops-time
The great thing about college students is if they don't focus on the display the first time , just drag them up the tower and push them again. =P. Take a look at the study yourself.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby Tyndmyr » Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:32 pm UTC

Hmm. Perhaps only advantageous in remembering it afterward, then. Which is a plus, though granted, only if you survive.

I might have to dig into this more later, I'm getting curious about more elements of the time dilation effect.

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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby Thesh » Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:59 pm UTC

So Republicans have won the battle against Obamas abuse of recess appointments as the supreme court has ruled them unconstitutional.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/06/27/us ... &referrer=
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Re: In other news... (humorous news items, etc)

Postby Yablo » Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:05 pm UTC

This is a good thing. Presidential power has been growing at an alarming rate in recent years. Not to say Congress is any more responsible, but the three branches of American government can only function properly if there's a reasonable balance.
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