Kansas state rep that compared rape to a flat tire

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The Reaper
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Kansas state rep that compared rape to a flat tire

Postby The Reaper » Thu May 26, 2011 4:06 pm UTC

http://www.mcphersonsentinel.com/newsno ... n-coverage
And Rep. Barbara Bollier, a Mission Hills Republican who supports abortion rights, questioned whether women would buy abortion-only policies long before they have crisis or unwanted pregnancies or are rape victims.

During the House's debate, Rep. Pete DeGraaf, a Mulvane Republican who supports the bill, told her: "We do need to plan ahead, don't we, in life?"

Bollier asked him, "And so women need to plan ahead for issues that they have no control over with a pregnancy?"

DeGraaf drew groans of protest from some House members when he responded, "I have spare tire on my car."

"I also have life insurance," he added. "I have a lot of things that I plan ahead for."

And here's a venn diagram!
http://motherjones.com/mixed-media/2011 ... -flat-tire

They should just roll insurance packages into 2 categories: things I caused, and things I didn't cause.
Also: DeGraaf is a tool.

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Re: Kansas state rep that compared rape to a flat tire

Postby SWGlassPit » Thu May 26, 2011 4:09 pm UTC

Just so you know, Mulvane is basically in BFE, and many in the statehouse, especially from rural Kansas, only have a high school diploma or less, so I'm not surprised about this.

*sigh*...Sometimes I hate this state.
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Re: Kansas state rep that compared rape to a flat tire

Postby broken_escalator » Thu May 26, 2011 4:12 pm UTC

I hope this is political suicide for DeGraaf, but somewhere there are people agreeing with him I'm sure.

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Re: Kansas state rep that compared rape to a flat tire

Postby podbaydoor » Thu May 26, 2011 4:18 pm UTC

It's Kansas, enough people agreed that they voted the bill into law. The governor is expected to sign it.

Missouri has similar bills piled up. Our Democratic governor is slightly less of a shoo-in for signing those bills, but I'm not making any bets on him jeopardizing his re-election chances in a state increasingly going conservative.
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Re: Kansas state rep that compared rape to a flat tire

Postby Radical_Initiator » Thu May 26, 2011 4:20 pm UTC

SWGlassPit wrote:Just so you know, Mulvane is basically in BFE, and many in the statehouse, especially from rural Kansas, only have a high school diploma or less, so I'm not surprised about this.

*sigh*...Sometimes I hate this state.


Apparently not DeGraaf, though. Almighty Wiki says he's a '79 grad of the Air Force Academy. I know that shouldn't reflect badly on our service academies, but I also know another asshole who went to Colorado Springs, so make of that extremely flimsy anecdotal evidence what you will.
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Re: Kansas state rep that compared rape to a flat tire

Postby Chen » Thu May 26, 2011 4:25 pm UTC

Pretty sensationalist thread title there. Really he compared an unwanted pregnancy to a flat tire (sorta). I dislike the idea of all these anti-abortion bills but trying to nail him on this aspect seems a tad foolish. Insurance is already something you buy to limit your risk for unforeseen events. That part of the logic seems perfectly sound. Now making women effectively pay more for their health care due to separating abortions (and probably other reproductive health issues) is the big problem. Not that people need to buy insurance for things that may be unforeseen in the future.

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Re: Kansas state rep that compared rape to a flat tire

Postby broken_escalator » Thu May 26, 2011 4:27 pm UTC

It seems wrong to me that an associate pastor can be a politician. I don't claim to know "the biz" but religion in my government scares me.

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Re: Kansas state rep that compared rape to a flat tire

Postby The Reaper » Thu May 26, 2011 4:28 pm UTC

Chen wrote:Pretty sensationalist thread title there.

"unwanted pregnancy due to rape" didn't fit there, so I shortened it.

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Re: Kansas state rep that compared rape to a flat tire

Postby Lucrece » Thu May 26, 2011 4:31 pm UTC

People need to stop conflating academic performance with cultural understanding.

I've met brilliant doctors, lawyers, and mathematicians who turn out to be upfront homophobes/misogynists/racists/xenophobes.

When you go to higher education, you're still only being taught about your profession's subject, and even when there are classes about discrimination/prejudice, those are electives and the individual is already predisposed to not take them to begin with.

Add to that your social circle and how friends and upbringing have far more influence than any teacher/stranger might have, just because positions are not held on rational observation and being well-informed, but rather around trust. We must trust and connect with our sources before accepting them, otherwise we just dismiss said sources and find sources that confirm our emotions.

Very few individuals are willing to sacrifice their social relations for the sake of being "right".
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Re: Kansas state rep that compared rape to a flat tire

Postby The Reaper » Thu May 26, 2011 4:33 pm UTC

Lucrece wrote:Very few individuals are willing to sacrifice their social relations for the sake of being "right".
I'm not good with social stuff :3

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Re: Kansas state rep that compared rape to a flat tire

Postby savanik » Thu May 26, 2011 4:35 pm UTC

broken_escalator wrote:It seems wrong to me that an associate pastor can be a politician. I don't claim to know "the biz" but religion in my government scares me.


Oddly enough, they can vote, too. Something about them being citizens of the country or some such.
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Re: Kansas state rep that compared rape to a flat tire

Postby broken_escalator » Thu May 26, 2011 4:38 pm UTC

Wait we let people vote now?

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Re: Kansas state rep that compared rape to a flat tire

Postby a_fuzzyduck » Thu May 26, 2011 4:39 pm UTC

to be fair to her, some tyres are just asking for it, with the low cut tread and all that rubber... phwoar
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Re: Kansas state rep that compared rape to a flat tire

Postby Telchar » Thu May 26, 2011 5:07 pm UTC

It's times like this I'm glad Montana has a governor who vetoes everything this most recent tea party congress has thrown his way. Branding Irons with Veto are a little cheesy but effective.
Zamfir wrote:Yeah, that's a good point. Everyone is all about presumption of innocence in rape threads. But when Mexican drug lords build APCs to carry their henchmen around, we immediately jump to criminal conclusions without hard evidence.

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Re: Kansas state rep that compared rape to a flat tire

Postby buddy431 » Thu May 26, 2011 11:40 pm UTC

Chen wrote:Pretty sensationalist thread title there. Really he compared an unwanted pregnancy to a flat tire (sorta). I dislike the idea of all these anti-abortion bills but trying to nail him on this aspect seems a tad foolish. Insurance is already something you buy to limit your risk for unforeseen events. That part of the logic seems perfectly sound. Now making women effectively pay more for their health care due to separating abortions (and probably other reproductive health issues) is the big problem. Not that people need to buy insurance for things that may be unforeseen in the future.


I agree. Comparing abortion to having a flat tire was a pretty valid comparison in this case. You carry a spare tire because you might get a flat, just as you carry health insurance because something bad might happen to you. He was comparing the preparation that goes into them, not the severity of the problem.

The law's still stupid - why should women have to get a separate insurance policy that covers only one medical procedure? Of course, the real intent is to have less women have insurance cover their abortions, making it harder for women to afford abortions, hopefully reducing the number of abortions. It will probably work, too.
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Re: Kansas state rep that compared rape to a flat tire

Postby podbaydoor » Fri May 27, 2011 1:09 am UTC

buddy431 wrote:
Chen wrote:Pretty sensationalist thread title there. Really he compared an unwanted pregnancy to a flat tire (sorta). I dislike the idea of all these anti-abortion bills but trying to nail him on this aspect seems a tad foolish. Insurance is already something you buy to limit your risk for unforeseen events. That part of the logic seems perfectly sound. Now making women effectively pay more for their health care due to separating abortions (and probably other reproductive health issues) is the big problem. Not that people need to buy insurance for things that may be unforeseen in the future.


I agree. Comparing abortion to having a flat tire was a pretty valid comparison in this case. You carry a spare tire because you might get a flat, just as you carry health insurance because something bad might happen to you. He was comparing the preparation that goes into them, not the severity of the problem.

The reason why this is not a valid comparison is because anyone can have a spare tire. Only women can get pregnant. DeGraaf can't get pregnant. Only women have to prepare for being raped and impregnated. And you know how they plan for this? By buying health policies. But not anymore, now they are imposed with an extra expense which a man will never have to pay for. This is literally a financial penalty for possessing a uterus.

The law's still stupid - why should women have to get a separate insurance policy that covers only one medical procedure?

Exactly right.
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Re: Kansas state rep that compared rape to a flat tire

Postby RockoTDF » Fri May 27, 2011 1:21 am UTC

Radical_Initiator wrote:
SWGlassPit wrote:Just so you know, Mulvane is basically in BFE, and many in the statehouse, especially from rural Kansas, only have a high school diploma or less, so I'm not surprised about this.

*sigh*...Sometimes I hate this state.


Apparently not DeGraaf, though. Almighty Wiki says he's a '79 grad of the Air Force Academy. I know that shouldn't reflect badly on our service academies, but I also know another asshole who went to Colorado Springs, so make of that extremely flimsy anecdotal evidence what you will.


My Dad was class of '79. They were more of a giant party animal class that pulled a lot of pranks on certain generals that went a tad too far some times. There are some people in the AF who would actively discriminate against people that graduated in that year. No joke. Although I'd be pretty pissed if someone unfurled a banner that had a giant penis airbrushed on my face that said "You can make it harder, but you can't make it longer!" (done by the senior class that year because the new commandant was a dick)

Ahem. Yeah, the academies produce a lot of douchebags. The air force on the whole has got this whole scary right wing christian thing going on that really turned me off from going in. Unfortunately the academies can serve as right wing echo chambers where ideas are not challenged like they would be at a normal university.

(Btw, no one ever calls USAFA "Colorado Springs" in the same way as you refer to West Point or Annapolis for Army and Navy)
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Re: Kansas state rep that compared rape to a flat tire

Postby WaterToFire » Fri May 27, 2011 1:44 am UTC

A while ago on this forum there was a thread about a European ruling that car insurance companies cannot discriminate between male and female genders, i. e. cannot charge men more although men are more likely to seek payout due to more often being in accidents.

A number of individuals said they disagreed with the ruling on the grounds that those who statistically seek more from an insurance plan should pay more. This strikes me as a similar scenario, where the representative quoted believes women should have an additional insurance plan to cover the cost of abortion. It is different, because they would be separate policies, but the overall effect (other than hassle) would theoretically be similar.

It seems that one cannot really be in favor of discriminating in the case of car insurance but not in the case of "abortion insurance", as both discriminate based on gender in a similar way. What are the forum's thoughts?

Personally I am opposed to both, but I'm curious what others think.

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Re: Kansas state rep that compared rape to a flat tire

Postby ++$_ » Fri May 27, 2011 1:53 am UTC

Health insurers are already allowed to include sex as a factor in determining their prices. So this bill adds an extra hassle for women without increasing the flexibility of the insurers.

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Re: Kansas state rep that compared rape to a flat tire

Postby Radical_Initiator » Fri May 27, 2011 2:14 am UTC

RockoTDF wrote:(Btw, no one ever calls USAFA "Colorado Springs" in the same way as you refer to West Point or Annapolis for Army and Navy)


You're right. It was a bad attempt at introducing metonymy. I don't think it will ever catch on.
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Re: Kansas state rep that compared rape to a flat tire

Postby Tirian » Fri May 27, 2011 2:20 am UTC

I can't wait to see what sort of legal indignities will soon be heaped on any health insurer to offer these supplemental policies.

So, just for score-keeping purposes, has the Tea Party done any work to create jobs in their states, or have they spent all their time harassing abortion providers and NPR?

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Re: Kansas state rep that compared rape to a flat tire

Postby podbaydoor » Fri May 27, 2011 2:22 am UTC

They...prevented Congress from closing loopholes and ending subsidies for oil companies?
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Re: Kansas state rep that compared rape to a flat tire

Postby PeterCai » Fri May 27, 2011 3:08 am UTC

what's wrong with this bill exactly? he made a poor comparison, get over it. like you don't ever do that.

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Re: Kansas state rep that compared rape to a flat tire

Postby podbaydoor » Fri May 27, 2011 3:16 am UTC

We've already explained why the bill sucks. Standard-issue abortion debate. What's specialized about this incident is, yes, the particularly asinine remark that got into the news. And particularly indicative of the mindset of conservative politicians in the red states.
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