16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his friend

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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby sourmìlk » Sun May 29, 2011 3:24 pm UTC

Dream wrote:The former because the latter?

In which case the argument is that we shouldn't try anybody using the adult system because it's less conducive to recovery.

Anyway, you may see yourself as being mature and sensible enough in your decision making that your morality trumps your impressionability in defining your decisions. That doesn't at all mean that ten years from now you won't be even less impressionable than you are now. The same won't be true between the years of 26 and 36. The difference is what's important. Teenagers are much more impressionable than adults, and we look at their motivations and decisions differently because of the difference, not because of some absolute level of maturity.


I never claimed that 16 year olds had the minimum amount of impressionability that they'd ever have. However, they should have a sufficient moral sense to overcome the peer pressure telling them to commit armed robbery.
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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby Dream » Sun May 29, 2011 3:36 pm UTC

sourmìlk wrote:In which case the argument is that we shouldn't try anybody using the adult system because it's less conducive to recovery.
What? The former, less recidivism, because the latter, the juvenile system is well tailored to youth. How does that imply the system tailored to youth should work better for adults than the adult system does?

sourmìlk wrote:However, they should have a sufficient moral sense to overcome the peer pressure telling them to commit armed robbery.

Well, as a rule, they don't. It's just a lottery as to who gets good role model and who gets bad, and who avoids random peer pressure strong enough to get them into risky situations and who doesn't. Should and shouldn't all you like, the real world just keeps on trucking.
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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby sourmìlk » Sun May 29, 2011 3:58 pm UTC

Dream wrote:
sourmìlk wrote:In which case the argument is that we shouldn't try anybody using the adult system because it's less conducive to recovery.
What? The former, less recidivism, because the latter, the juvenile system is well tailored to youth. How does that imply the system tailored to youth should work better for adults than the adult system does?

I meant: are adolescents tried via the juvenile system less prone to recidivism because the juvenile system is, for all people, more conducive to recovery or because it's only more conducive to recovery for adolescents?

sourmìlk wrote:However, they should have a sufficient moral sense to overcome the peer pressure telling them to commit armed robbery.

Well, as a rule, they don't. It's just a lottery as to who gets good role model and who gets bad, and who avoids random peer pressure strong enough to get them into risky situations and who doesn't. Should and shouldn't all you like, the real world just keeps on trucking.


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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby RockoTDF » Sun May 29, 2011 5:57 pm UTC

sourmìlk wrote:
RockoTDF wrote:I'm not sure how we can call this murder. Yes, the kid was indirectly responsible for the death. It is at worst involuntary manslaughter.

It makes no sense that a drunk driver can kill someone and get manslaughter for a decision that is a more "direct", yet someone else shot this kid and he has to get murder for it.

The whole thing is an entire slap in the face to punishment fitting the crime, and I hope that some level of Supreme Court strikes it down as unconstitutional. To be honest, it makes almost as much sense as arresting drug users for murder because of the actions of the cartels that sell the drugs.


So are you against the idea of felony murder in general, or just in this application?


Actually, yes I am. I had a brain fart when I was writing last time.
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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby Dream » Sun May 29, 2011 6:07 pm UTC

RockoTDF wrote:Actually, yes I am. I had a brain fart when I was writing last time.

I wouldn't go that far. There should be a specific crime for those who set out to threaten life with little or no intention of actually taking it, whose actions lead to them being in a situation where they kill somebody. Armed bank robbers who have no intention of taking a life but end up shooting a person dead are neither premeditating cold blooded murderers, nor are they guilty of an unpremeditated crime of passion or fear. They are something else, and should be treated as such.

That can't possibly extend to being guilty of murder because of police action against themselves though. That's just senseless, and doubly so in this case, where the surviving thief had literally no input into the actual shooting of his accomplice.
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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby Aetius » Sun May 29, 2011 6:35 pm UTC

Dream wrote:the surviving thief had literally no input into the actual shooting of his accomplice.


Except for the part where he actively participated in a violent crime that is pretty much guaranteed to bring a forceful police response. There is no situation in which a police officer intervenes in an armed robbery without at least drawing his service weapon.

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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby Greyarcher » Sun May 29, 2011 6:45 pm UTC

Hmmm. That's bizarre and dubious.

I think the shooting would count as self-defense from the police officer. So the death is a justifiable homicide and murder at the same time?

They're playing silly buggers with the law.
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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby johnny_7713 » Sun May 29, 2011 8:37 pm UTC

Aetius wrote:
Dream wrote:the surviving thief had literally no input into the actual shooting of his accomplice.


Except for the part where he actively participated in a violent crime that is pretty much guaranteed to bring a forceful police response. There is no situation in which a police officer intervenes in an armed robbery without at least drawing his service weapon.


By that logic shouldn't this then be classed as a 'felony suicide'? After all the accomplice actively participated in a violent crime that is pretty much guaranteed to bring a forceful police response.

There is no causal relationship between this boy taking part in the crime and his accomplice being shot. Unless you want to suggest that if the boy hadn't been there his accomplice wouldn't have been shot, a premise for which I have seen no evidence so far.

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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby Aetius » Sun May 29, 2011 9:00 pm UTC

johnny_7713 wrote:By that logic shouldn't this then be classed as a 'felony suicide'? After all the accomplice actively participated in a violent crime that is pretty much guaranteed to bring a forceful police response.

There is no causal relationship between this boy taking part in the crime and his accomplice being shot. Unless you want to suggest that if the boy hadn't been there his accomplice wouldn't have been shot, a premise for which I have seen no evidence so far.


Sure you could classify it as a felony suicide, but since he's dead does it really matter? It's not going to trial.

There is a causal relationship between the felony and the kid being shot, and under the felony murder rule because the defendant participated in the felony he is liable for any fatal consequences of that felony.

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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby RockoTDF » Mon May 30, 2011 4:44 am UTC

Dream wrote:
RockoTDF wrote:Actually, yes I am. I had a brain fart when I was writing last time.

I wouldn't go that far. There should be a specific crime for those who set out to threaten life with little or no intention of actually taking it, whose actions lead to them being in a situation where they kill somebody. Armed bank robbers who have no intention of taking a life but end up shooting a person dead are neither premeditating cold blooded murderers, nor are they guilty of an unpremeditated crime of passion or fear. They are something else, and should be treated as such.

That can't possibly extend to being guilty of murder because of police action against themselves though. That's just senseless, and doubly so in this case, where the surviving thief had literally no input into the actual shooting of his accomplice.


Here's my take:

In this case, there should be some sort of felony involuntary manslaughter.

A bank robber who has an accomplice shoot someone is closer to murder than the present case. Someone in the group committing a crime together actually pulled the trigger. Perhaps if felony murder were to be a fair charge, it may apply to this example. In the real case we are presently discussing, busting an unarmed person for murder (which will likely be considered justifiable homicide despite being done by the same bullet, as pointed out earlier) is excessive.

Another real life example of this law was a murder charge due to a cop accidentally shooting another cop when they were trying to hunt down some people at night. Perhaps manslaughter there as well, because their actions led to death but they did not pull the trigger or order someone being shot.

Earlier in the thread someone brought up the example of a ladder breaking during a burglary killing someone counting as murder. Sadly, it probably does because this law is not always limited to violent crimes. So if we are unarmed and know a house is empty (the most violent thing we do is break a window) and I die, it can be murder. If we are cleaning their gutters and I die, it is a tragic accident. Same people, same ladder, same amount of fault for death lies with each person. Yet one is murder.
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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby Belial » Mon May 30, 2011 4:54 am UTC

I find the whole thing pretty fucking disingenuous. If this kid had acted alone, and been shot down by the cops, the entire justice system would dislocate their shoulders patting themselves on the back for a job well done. But because someone lived, suddenly we're pretending that the cops and prosecutors consider the death a horrible loss and want to blame the accomplice for it?

As opposed to, you know, just finding another charge to heap on him because an armed robbery charge seemed too soft?

Yeah, no, I totally buy that.
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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby sourmìlk » Mon May 30, 2011 4:58 am UTC

Belial wrote:I find the whole thing pretty fucking disingenuous. If this kid had acted alone, and been shot down by the cops, the entire justice system would dislocate their shoulders patting themselves on the back for a job well done. But because someone lived, suddenly we're pretending that the cops and prosecutors consider the death a horrible loss and want to blame the accomplice for it?


I don't think you should assume the motives behind these laws. I don't see why somebody who committed crime shouldn't be responsible for all bad things that happened directly because of that crime.
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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby Belial » Mon May 30, 2011 5:04 am UTC

I'm taking issue with the idea that most of the people involved in the justice system would consider this a bad thing if there weren't someone else they could punish for it.

Also, I take issue with your characterization of the consequence as "direct". The robbery didn't cause the death, the police response did. That's at least one remove. By definition, indirect.
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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby sourmìlk » Mon May 30, 2011 5:29 am UTC

Belial wrote:I'm taking issue with the idea that most of the people involved in the justice system would consider this a bad thing if there weren't someone else they could punish for it.

You think that people in the justice system don't care if a kid dies? I take issue with you characterizing a diverse group of people all as heartless bastards.

Also, I take issue with your characterization of the consequence as "direct". The robbery didn't cause the death, the police response did. That's at least one remove. By definition, indirect.


What if we consider the police response necessary with regard to the actions of the criminals?
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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby Kulantan » Mon May 30, 2011 5:40 am UTC

If we consider the police response necessary with regard to the actions of the criminals then the kid being charged is still not directly responsible for the death. As you have said repeatedly in this thread; teenagers should know not to commit crimes. That goes for the one who chose to participate in a crime that got him shot as much as for the one who wasn't shot.
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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby Soralin » Mon May 30, 2011 5:41 am UTC

sourmìlk wrote:
Belial wrote:I'm taking issue with the idea that most of the people involved in the justice system would consider this a bad thing if there weren't someone else they could punish for it.

You think that people in the justice system don't care if a kid dies? I take issue with you characterizing a diverse group of people all as heartless bastards.

Also, I take issue with your characterization of the consequence as "direct". The robbery didn't cause the death, the police response did. That's at least one remove. By definition, indirect.


What if we consider the police response necessary with regard to the actions of the criminals?

Then we award the accomplice with a felony commendation for indirectly being involved in the protection of a police officer? :)

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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby Belial » Mon May 30, 2011 5:46 am UTC

Soralin wrote:Then we award the accomplice with a felony commendation for indirect protection of a police officer? :)


You joke, but that's kindof what I mean. The cop is considered to have acted totally reasonably. If there had only been one kid there, that would be the end of the story: cop kills criminal, kid's family is destroyed but no one else cares.

And that's horrible, but that's how it works with cops.

But because there was someone else there who didn't get neatly murdered, everyone suddenly cares.
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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby sourmìlk » Mon May 30, 2011 5:48 am UTC

Belial wrote:But because there was someone else there who didn't get neatly murdered, everyone suddenly cares.


Or perhaps "because there's somebody still alive responsible for the murder, he should be tried."
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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby johnny_7713 » Mon May 30, 2011 6:39 am UTC

sourmìlk wrote:
Belial wrote:But because there was someone else there who didn't get neatly murdered, everyone suddenly cares.


Or perhaps "because there's somebody still alive responsible for the murder, he should be tried."


And how exactly is the defendant responsible for the death of his accomplice? If he hadn't participated in the crime, what in the chain of events would have been different such that the accomplice wouldn't have died?

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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby sourmìlk » Mon May 30, 2011 7:01 am UTC

johnny_7713 wrote:And how exactly is the defendant responsible for the death of his accomplice? If he hadn't participated in the crime, what in the chain of events would have been different such that the accomplice wouldn't have died?


I think the assumption (and I make no judgment as to whether or not this assumption is warranted) is that the crime would not have happened without both accomplices.
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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby Kulantan » Mon May 30, 2011 7:03 am UTC

sourmìlk wrote:
Belial wrote:But because there was someone else there who didn't get neatly murdered, everyone suddenly cares.


Or perhaps "because there's somebody still alive responsible for the murder, he should be tried."

I agree, the parents of these kids were directly responsible for them turning to crime and should be tried as well.
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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby skeptical scientist » Mon May 30, 2011 7:17 am UTC

Kulantan wrote:I agree, the parents of these kids were directly responsible for them turning to crime and should be tried as well.

I assume this was meant to be sarcasm?
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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby sourmìlk » Mon May 30, 2011 7:20 am UTC

Kulantan wrote:
sourmìlk wrote:
Belial wrote:But because there was someone else there who didn't get neatly murdered, everyone suddenly cares.


Or perhaps "because there's somebody still alive responsible for the murder, he should be tried."

I agree, the parents of these kids were directly responsible for them turning to crime and should be tried as well.


The kids control their own actions. The policemen had no coice.
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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby Kulantan » Mon May 30, 2011 7:22 am UTC

skeptical scientist wrote:I assume this was meant to be sarcasm?


Yeah. Tis meant to be a point about how the guy being charged with murder might not actually be the single stand alone reason why the other kid got involved in a crime that happened to end with a police officer shooting him. Also about how ridiculously much some folk in this thread are ignoring personal responsibly.

Edit:
sourmìlk wrote:The kids control their own actions. The policemen had no coice.

Then why in the name of Kvasir are you supporting charging the survivor with murder? We don't actually have to charge anyone with that you know.
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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby sourmìlk » Mon May 30, 2011 7:26 am UTC

Kulantan wrote:Then why in the name of Kvasir are you supporting charging the survivor with murder?


I'm not necessarily, but I am saying that this decision was coming from a "if it weren't for this kid the accomplice wouldn't be dead" standpoint rather than a "we need somebody to blame" standpoint.
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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby Kulantan » Mon May 30, 2011 7:41 am UTC

If that conjecturer was true then you would support holding the 16 year old responsible? How about if the parents were the ones "if it weren't for"? How about the school, the local factory, the local shelter or the landlord? Is it the physical proximity? The fact that this guy watch on in horror as his partner was shot dead in front of him that means we should prosecute he for murder?
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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby sourmìlk » Mon May 30, 2011 7:44 am UTC

Right, "if it weren't for" isn't sufficient. How about "only and directly because of"
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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby Kulantan » Mon May 30, 2011 7:49 am UTC

Right, 'cause fifteen year olds who go around mugging folk so often have only one factor clearly responsible for why they are committing crimes.
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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby sourmìlk » Mon May 30, 2011 7:51 am UTC

Kulantan wrote:Right, 'cause fifteen year olds who go around mugging folk so often have only one factor clearly responsible for why they are committing crimes.


I believe it was Dream a while back who said it was due to peer pressure.
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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby Aetius » Mon May 30, 2011 8:09 am UTC

RockoTDF wrote:Earlier in the thread someone brought up the example of a ladder breaking during a burglary killing someone counting as murder. Sadly, it probably does because this law is not always limited to violent crimes. So if we are unarmed and know a house is empty (the most violent thing we do is break a window) and I die, it can be murder. If we are cleaning their gutters and I die, it is a tragic accident. Same people, same ladder, same amount of fault for death lies with each person. Yet one is murder.


Most interpretations of the felony murder rule require the felony in question to be inherently dangerous in nature.

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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby sourmìlk » Mon May 30, 2011 8:16 am UTC

Aetius wrote:Most interpretations of the felony murder rule require the felony in question to be inherently dangerous in nature.


Not only that, but why doesn't intent matter?
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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby Goplat » Mon May 30, 2011 8:22 am UTC

Belial wrote:I find the whole thing pretty fucking disingenuous. If this kid had acted alone, and been shot down by the cops, the entire justice system would dislocate their shoulders patting themselves on the back for a job well done. But because someone lived, suddenly we're pretending that the cops and prosecutors consider the death a horrible loss and want to blame the accomplice for it?

As opposed to, you know, just finding another charge to heap on him because an armed robbery charge seemed too soft?

Yeah, no, I totally buy that.
Given our broken "justice" system, the only way to reduce the number of future crimes he will commit is to lengthen the sentence; with a murder charge it'll be a longer time before he can return to preying on society. Hardly something to complain about, unless you enjoy being put at gunpoint.

Kulantan wrote:Right, 'cause fifteen year olds who go around mugging folk so often have only one factor clearly responsible for why they are committing crimes.
It's called "antisocial personality disorder". Formerly known as "psychopathy", and before that known as "evil".

We're talking about someone here who is willing to kill innocent people for money. (Which did not happen in this case, but mugging would very quickly become ineffective if muggers weren't willing to follow through on their threats.) This is not something you do start doing just because your friends told you it's cool or your parents didn't hug you enough or whatever bullshit excuses he'll give in court. This is something that normal people will not do under any circumstances, and we as a society need to stop being tricked into feeling sympathy for those that will.

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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby legopelle » Mon May 30, 2011 9:50 am UTC

Goplat wrote:
Kulantan wrote:Right, 'cause fifteen year olds who go around mugging folk so often have only one factor clearly responsible for why they are committing crimes.
It's called "antisocial personality disorder". Formerly known as "psychopathy", and before that known as "evil".
You don't think there's a reason the name changed? Like, the old ones carrying implications not intended?

We're talking about someone here who is willing to kill innocent people for money.
Not explicitly stated.

(Which did not happen in this case, but mugging would very quickly become ineffective if muggers weren't willing to follow through on their threats.)
Not necessarily. The victim only needs to believe the perpetrator is.

This is not something you do start doing just because your friends told you it's cool or your parents didn't hug you enough or whatever bullshit excuses he'll give in court. This is something that normal people will not do under any circumstances, and we as a society need to stop being tricked into feeling sympathy for those that will.
Yeah, because normal people never do anything "evil", ever.
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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby Dream » Mon May 30, 2011 9:56 am UTC

sourmìlk wrote:
Kulantan wrote:Right, 'cause fifteen year olds who go around mugging folk so often have only one factor clearly responsible for why they are committing crimes.


I believe it was Dream a while back who said it was due to peer pressure.

Did I? Or did I say the juvenile justice system is acknowledges young people being especially susceptible to peer pressure?
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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby sourmìlk » Mon May 30, 2011 10:29 am UTC

Dream wrote:
sourmìlk wrote:
Kulantan wrote:Right, 'cause fifteen year olds who go around mugging folk so often have only one factor clearly responsible for why they are committing crimes.


I believe it was Dream a while back who said it was due to peer pressure.

Did I? Or did I say the juvenile justice system is acknowledges young people being especially susceptible to peer pressure?


Right, and because young people are more susceptible to peer pressure, the idea might have been that the crime only happened because the kid's accomplice pressured him into it.
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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby Zamfir » Mon May 30, 2011 10:49 am UTC

Goplat wrote:We're talking about someone here who is willing to kill innocent people for money. (Which did not happen in this case, but mugging would very quickly become ineffective if muggers weren't willing to follow through on their threats.) This is not something you do start doing just because your friends told you it's cool or your parents didn't hug you enough or whatever bullshit excuses he'll give in court. This is something that normal people will not do under any circumstances, and we as a society need to stop being tricked into feeling sympathy for those that will.

It might be different in other countries, but I think this is empirically wrong. This kind of juvenile semi-professional crimes are highly related to the background of the perpetrator. And things like unstable families, domestic violence at home and a high rate of youth criminality in a peer group are all very strongly related to the odds of committing a crime.

Or to put it another way, most children are never even tempted to turn to crime. There is no one around who shows them the tricks, the risks and the rewards of crime. They never have to choose between losing friends and joining them in some criminal activity. Their parents and schools watch them carefully for missteps, and are preparing them for a much more attractive career than mugger.

Those kids can later pat themselves on the back, proudly say that they would never do such a thing, and that only 'not normal' people would mug people. But let's be honest, they never had to choose. They just did the same things everybody around them did, and mugging was not on the menu.

On the other hand, most large cities in the world have neighbourhoods were 20, 30, 40% of boys, or even more, get convicted for something. Perhaps these places just happen to be filled with natural born criminals, but I doubt it.

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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby Belial » Mon May 30, 2011 4:28 pm UTC

Goplat wrote:Given our broken "justice" system, the only way to reduce the number of future crimes he will commit is to lengthen the sentence; with a murder charge it'll be a longer time before he can return to preying on society. Hardly something to complain about, unless you enjoy being put at gunpoint.


By that logic, life sentences for all criminals for all crimes.

It's called "antisocial personality disorder". Formerly known as "psychopathy", and before that known as "evil".


Got a citation for your "all muggers and armed robbers are APD" fact?

Also, while we're at it, for your idea that APD is uninfluenced by environment and background, and instead just magically occurs more often in low income areas because of...what, genetic inferiority?
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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby KnightExemplar » Mon May 30, 2011 4:51 pm UTC

Belial wrote:
Goplat wrote:Given our broken "justice" system, the only way to reduce the number of future crimes he will commit is to lengthen the sentence; with a murder charge it'll be a longer time before he can return to preying on society. Hardly something to complain about, unless you enjoy being put at gunpoint.


By that logic, life sentences for all criminals for all crimes.

It's called "antisocial personality disorder". Formerly known as "psychopathy", and before that known as "evil".


Got a citation for your "all muggers and armed robbers are APD" fact?

Also, while we're at it, for your idea that APD is uninfluenced by environment and background, and instead just magically occurs more often in low income areas because of...what, genetic inferiority?


http://articles.latimes.com/2005/jul/08 ... t/et-boss8

When a psychopath is born into a high-class society, they become a CEO and make tons of money. When a psychopath is born into low-class society, I presume that they become muggers and murderers. IIRC, the figure is 1/100 people are psychopaths. So while APD is probably genetic, the effects of APD might be beneficial based on the environment / background.
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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby mike-l » Mon May 30, 2011 8:04 pm UTC

Well 1/100 adults are currently incarcerated according to the NYT, and that's just who's in jail right now. I'd imagine the average innmate spends less than 8 years in jail in their life (This study shows an average of 4 years for violent crime, which tends to bear the longest sentence, and with a recidivism rate of about 2/3 we'll go with 8 years.) Since the life expectancy is in the 70s, and we'll say adulthood starts at 20, so the average inmate spends about 1/6th of their adult lives in jail. Hence a rough estimate of 1/16 people will serve time in their lives.

This number is significantly higher than the incidence of psychopathy (which is around 1/160). Moreover, there's massive differences in incarceration rates based on race, but no indication that there are similar differences in psycopathy. There are, however, corresponding socio-economic differences.

Edit: The wiki article on psycopathy does it much more directly than me, that among inmates, 7.7% in men and 1.9% in women are psycopaths. Ie, the vast majority of innmates are not.
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Re: 16 Year old charged with murder after cop shoots his fri

Postby Griffin » Tue May 31, 2011 2:50 am UTC

Please, people, you should know better than to try to argue with Sourmilk about stuff like this.

This is the guy that believes you have a moral obligation to kill someone who throws a rock at you. He probably believes the only real "wrong" here was that the policeman didn't kill the other kid too.

As we've all finally realized after drilling through his opinions, he believes 'bad guys' deserve whatever they get, and 'good guys' are obligated to give it to them.
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