Global War on Drugs has Failed

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Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby LaserGuy » Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:59 am UTC

The Global Commission on Drugs, an international body composed of several former and current heads of state, former UN Secretary General Kofi Annan, as well as businesspeople and activists has just released a controversial report arguing that the global war on drugs has failed spectacularly, and recommends legalization or decriminalization of drugs.

From the BBC:
Spoiler:
The Global Commission on Drug Policy report calls for the legalisation of some drugs and an end to the criminalisation of drug users.

The panel includes former UN Secretary General Kofi Annan, the former leaders of Mexico, Colombia and Brazil, and the entrepreneur Sir Richard Branson.

The White House rejected the findings, saying the report was misguided.

As well as Mexico's former President Ernesto Zedillo, ex-Brazilian President Fernando Henrique Cardoso and former Colombian President Cesar Gaviria, the 19-member commission includes the former US Federal Reserve chairman Paul Volcker and the current Prime Minister of Greece George Papandreou.

The panel also features prominent Latin American writers Carlos Fuentes and Mario Vargas Llosa, the EU's former foreign policy chief Javier Solana, and George Schultz, a former US secretary of state.

'No harm to others'

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AdvertisementCesar Gaviria said the US was one of the countries which came in for criticism
Their report argues that anti-drug policy has failed by fuelling organised crime, costing taxpayers millions of dollars and causing thousands of deaths.

It cites UN estimates that opiate use increased 35% worldwide from 1998 to 2008, cocaine by 27%, and cannabis by 8.5%.

The authors criticise governments who claim the current war on drugs is effective:

"Political leaders and public figures should have the courage to articulate publicly what many of them acknowledge privately: that the evidence overwhelmingly demonstrates that repressive strategies will not solve the drug problem, and that the war on drugs has not, and cannot, be won," the report said.

Instead of punishing users who the report says "do no harm to others," the commission argues that governments should end criminalisation of drug use, experiment with legal models that would undermine organised crime syndicates and offer health and treatment services for drug-users.

It calls for drug policies based on methods empirically proven to reduce crime and promote economic and social development.

The commission is especially critical of the US, saying it must abandon anti-crime approaches to drug policy and adopt strategies rooted in healthcare and human rights.

"We hope this country (the US) at least starts to think there are alternatives," said former Colombian President Cesar Gaviria.

"We don't see the US evolving in a way that is compatible with our (countries') long-term interests."

The office of White House drug tsar Gil Kerlikowske rejected the panel's recommendations.

"Drug addiction is a disease that can be successfully prevented and treated," said a spokesman for the Office of National Drug Control Policy.

"Making drugs more available - as this report suggests - will make it harder to keep our communities healthy and safe."

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Re: Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby KnightExemplar » Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:26 am UTC

Lol. the Ronpaul was right about something.

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Re: Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby Thesh » Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:31 am UTC

Was anyone under the impression that the war on drugs was working. Good for them for promoting legalization/decriminalization, though.

From the article:
"Making drugs more available - as this report suggests - will make it harder to keep our communities healthy and safe."


The mistake is assuming that drugs aren't highly available. If there were no laws against selling or using drugs, then thousands of people wouldn't have been killed in the gang warfare that prohibition has fueled. With full legalization, hard work, and time, we can end the problem of gang violence in the future. For now, gangs are continuing to grow in the United States.

Approximately 1 million gang members belonging to more than 20,000 gangs were criminally active within all 50 states and the District of Columbia as of September 2008.

According to NDTS data, 58 percent of state and local law enforcement agencies reported that criminal gangs were active in their jurisdictions in 2008 compared with 45 percent of state and local agencies in 2004.


http://www.justice.gov/ndic/pubs32/32146/index.htm

KnightExemplar wrote:Lol. the Ronpaul was right about something.

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He's mostly a libertarian. Libertarians are, for the most part, pretty spot-on when it comes to personal freedoms.
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Re: Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby Belial » Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:59 am UTC

Thesh wrote:Was anyone under the impression that the war on drugs was working.


It was working for something. And someone.

It just wasn't "stopping drug trafficking" or "the people at large".
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Re: Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby SlyReaper » Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:47 am UTC

Belial wrote:
Thesh wrote:Was anyone under the impression that the war on drugs was working.


It was working for something. And someone.

It just wasn't "stopping drug trafficking" or "the people at large".


Honestly the only thing I can think of is political points for appeasing the think-of-the-children brigade. Even money-wise, it would make sense to decriminalise drugs; save money on enforcing stupid laws, tax the fuck out of the drugs themselves. You'd think that, for such a money oriented civilisation as ours, our governments would put that at a higher priority than appeasing a small group of ill-informed busybodies.
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Re: Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby Thesh » Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:50 am UTC

SlyReaper wrote:tax the fuck out of the drugs themselves.


Yeah, I hate the idea of sin taxes. They are large taxes on what the people in the government believe is immoral (and they tend to be highly regressive).
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Re: Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby SlyReaper » Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:59 am UTC

I'm not condoning it, just pointing out that is what would happen if the government decriminalised drugs, and that the opportunity to impose more taxes would be one of the main motivating factors.
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Re: Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby johnny_7713 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:29 am UTC

Thesh wrote:Was anyone under the impression that the war on drugs was working. Good for them for promoting legalization/decriminalization, though.

From the article:
"Making drugs more available - as this report suggests - will make it harder to keep our communities healthy and safe."


The mistake is assuming that drugs aren't highly available. If there were no laws against selling or using drugs, then thousands of people wouldn't have been killed in the gang warfare that prohibition has fueled. With full legalization, hard work, and time, we can end the problem of gang violence in the future. For now, gangs are continuing to grow in the United States.



In the Netherlands where buying and possessing a (small) amount of marijuana has been legal for the past several decades, the amount of drug users (in relative terms) is about equal to the European average. Also both the US and Australia have a higher percentage of young people who have at some point tried marijuana (i.e. smoked a joint once at a party to see what it was like).

Also wasn't possible tax income why California was recently considering legalisation.

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Re: Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby Diadem » Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:08 am UTC

johnny_7713 wrote:In the Netherlands where buying and possessing a (small) amount of marijuana has been legal for the past several decades, the amount of drug users (in relative terms) is about equal to the European average. Also both the US and Australia have a higher percentage of young people who have at some point tried marijuana (i.e. smoked a joint once at a party to see what it was like).

In The Netherlands drugs are not fully legal though (I know you are not saying they are, just posting this for the benefit of the general public). Consumers can buy drugs, and possess small amounts, and so called 'coffeeshops' are allowed to sell them, and hold slightly larger amounts in stock. But they can't legally buy it. Also growing drugs is only allowed up to a few grams.

This is of course entirely schizophrenic. Coffeeshops are legal businesses, they have all the licenses, they pay taxes, etc. But they are not legally allowed to do business. This is not an accident, the system was designed that way. Full legalisation was politically unfeasible, but noone wanted the madness that is the war on drugs here in The Netherlands either. So growing and selling drugs in bulk quantities is still done by criminal gangs. And the police actually do try to crack down on those. But the consumers are left alone, and the coffeeshops are in this legal grey area where as long as they don't get too crazy the police will put their fingers in their ears and go 'nanananana' every time they see them.

Full legalisation would be much better. The majority of people support it. But in our current political climate it won't happen. In fact in recent years thanks to the christian right, our policies have become quite conservative on drugs, with coffeeshops being closed everywhere (Abusing a law that allows government to close business with ties to criminal organisations. Nevermind that coffeeshops have to have ties with criminal organisations to do business in the first place).

I have no idea how things will develop in the future. I hope though we'll eventually end up legalizing drugs.
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Re: Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby folkhero » Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:32 am UTC

SlyReaper wrote:Honestly the only thing I can think of is political points for appeasing the think-of-the-children brigade. Even money-wise, it would make sense to decriminalise drugs; save money on enforcing stupid laws, tax the fuck out of the drugs themselves. You'd think that, for such a money oriented civilisation as ours, our governments would put that at a higher priority than appeasing a small group of ill-informed busybodies.

People in the illegal drug industry tend to keep large amounts of money in cash. Police and sheriff department get to keep that cash when they seize it.
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Re: Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby Belial » Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:48 am UTC

Also, in general, law enforcement is able to pull hell of funding from the drug war.
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Re: Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby Plasma Man » Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:52 am UTC

Whenever I see an item on the news about police raiding someone that's growing cannabis, I always imagine them having a meeting beforehand and going "So, what do we want to take on today? Shall we try to arrest the guys with guns or the guy with a greenhouse? Ooooh, tough call."
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Re: Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby Belial » Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:54 am UTC

"Raise your hand if you want to bust criminals! No? Nobody? Doesn't sound like fun to anybody? Alright, raise your hand if you want to brutalize farmers? Alright! Farmers it is! Get the SWAT armor!"
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Re: Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby SlyReaper » Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:06 pm UTC

Farmers are less likely to fight back.
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Re: Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby Dream » Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:19 pm UTC

I wonder is the Prime Minister of Greece hoping to cash-crop his way out of the financial crisis...
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Re: Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby Arrian » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:15 pm UTC

folkhero wrote:People in the illegal drug industry tend to keep large amounts of money in cash. Police and sheriff department get to keep that cash when they seize it.


This deserves repeated, and to note that the police don't have to actually prove anything to take the cash, car, etc. in most jurisdictions. After the police have seized it, it's up to the person they took it from to prove that it wasn't used in a crime. Civil asset forfeiture, ain't it grand?

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Re: Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby PeterCai » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:44 pm UTC

i get wanting to decriminalize harmless substances like marijuana, but do people seriously think that legalizing cocaine is a good idea?

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Re: Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby Belial » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:49 pm UTC

How's criminalizing it working out?
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Re: Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby SlyReaper » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:49 pm UTC

PeterCai wrote:i get wanting to decriminalize harmless substances like marijuana, but do people seriously think that legalizing cocaine is a good idea?

Yes, I absolutely do. It's harmful, but it would only harm those who choose to take it. As it stands, what with it being prohibited and all, it harms others too.
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Re: Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby Radical_Initiator » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:49 pm UTC

PeterCai wrote:i get wanting to decriminalize harmless substances like marijuana, but do people seriously think that legalizing cocaine is a good idea?


There seems to have been at least some success in Portugal.

Drugs in Portugal: Did Decriminalization Work?
Can lessons be learned from Portugal's drug laws?

The stories I've seen that analyze the data from Portugal are a year or two old. If anyone has more up-to-date information, I'd be interested to see it. And Portugal's laws weren't a full decriminalization - dealing and supplying are still illegal, IIRC. But possession of small amounts of any drug were not tried as criminals.
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Re: Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby Belial » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:52 pm UTC

Really, while it's a tired point used in legalization rhetoric forever, it's no less true: nearly any argument you can make for criminalizing nearly any drug could also apply to criminalizing alcohol. And we already abandoned that because it was a terrible idea that didn't stop anyone from drinking and also basically created organized crime.

Apply this logic liberally to whatever drug you think should be banned.
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Re: Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby SlyReaper » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:55 pm UTC

Radical_Initiator wrote:
PeterCai wrote:i get wanting to decriminalize harmless substances like marijuana, but do people seriously think that legalizing cocaine is a good idea?


There seems to have been at least some success in Portugal.

Drugs in Portugal: Did Decriminalization Work?
Can lessons be learned from Portugal's drug laws?

The stories I've seen that analyze the data from Portugal are a year or two old. If anyone has more up-to-date information, I'd be interested to see it. And Portugal's laws weren't a full decriminalization - dealing and supplying are still illegal, IIRC. But possession of small amounts of any drug were not tried as criminals.


BBC Article wrote:Would the British government ever entertain such a radical change? The Home Office says decriminalisation is not the answer; instead it wants to reduce drug use and drug-related crime and help addicts kick their habit.


Argh that pisses me off so much. Treating it as an either-or thing when in fact it's both-or-neither.
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Re: Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby LtNOWIS » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:57 pm UTC

Personally, i think it would be a lot better if police and federal law enforcement could simply decide not to enforce broad sections of the law, regardless of what those stupid politicians say. Government could be a lot more efficient if it didn't have to rely on elected leaders and all their obnoxious pandering to voters.

/sarcasm

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Re: Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby PeterCai » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:58 pm UTC

Radical_Initiator wrote:There seems to have been at least some success in Portugal.

Drugs in Portugal: Did Decriminalization Work?
Can lessons be learned from Portugal's drug laws?

The stories I've seen that analyze the data from Portugal are a year or two old. If anyone has more up-to-date information, I'd be interested to see it. And Portugal's laws weren't a full decriminalization - dealing and supplying are still illegal, IIRC. But possession of small amounts of any drug were not tried as criminals.


thanks for the articles, will look into it.

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Re: Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby Belial » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:00 pm UTC

LtNOWIS wrote:Personally, i think it would be a lot better if police and federal law enforcement could simply decide not to enforce broad sections of the law, regardless of what those stupid politicians say. Government could be a lot more efficient if it didn't have to rely on elected leaders and all their obnoxious pandering to voters.

/sarcasm


The great thing about this post is that it looks like it belongs in a totally different thread. Really adds that sort of otherworldly effect that makes the whole piece really pop.
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Re: Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby Robot_Raptor » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:03 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:
Belial wrote:
Thesh wrote:Was anyone under the impression that the war on drugs was working.


It was working for something. And someone.

It just wasn't "stopping drug trafficking" or "the people at large".


Honestly the only thing I can think of is political points for appeasing the think-of-the-children brigade. [snip]


One of the other groups it works for is the prison system. Given that, in the US at least, contracting out prisons to private companies is common, you end up with a large group lobbying for more prisoners. Drug laws are a very easy way to make more prisoners.

Then there's the drug dealers themselves. Anecdotally speaking, during the whole California referendum to legalize pot last november, one of the groups spreading misinformation about it and working against it was the drug dealers. It would lower profits hugely, and more or less eliminate the black market.

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Re: Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby Plasma Man » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:05 pm UTC

PeterCai wrote:i get wanting to decriminalize harmless substances like marijuana, but do people seriously think that legalizing cocaine is a good idea?
Yes.
Occasional cocaine use does not typically lead to severe or even minor physical or social problems … a minority of people start using cocaine or related products, use casually for a short or long period, and suffer little or no negative consequences, even after years of use.
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Re: Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby LtNOWIS » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:08 pm UTC

Belial wrote:The great thing about this post is that it looks like it belongs in a totally different thread. Really adds that sort of otherworldly effect that makes the whole piece really pop.


Yeah, I waited a bit too long. It would've been more appropriate 10 posts or so earlier.

Overall, I don't care too much about the issue. Democracies will ultimately decide what they want to do, and the wheels of the state will turn, and life will go on. I can see very real fiscal benefits in relaxing our drug laws, but I'm also ok with keeping them strict if that's what most people want.

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Re: Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby SlyReaper » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:12 pm UTC

LtNOWIS wrote:
Belial wrote:The great thing about this post is that it looks like it belongs in a totally different thread. Really adds that sort of otherworldly effect that makes the whole piece really pop.


Yeah, I waited a bit too long. It would've been more appropriate 10 posts or so earlier.

Overall, I don't care too much about the issue. Democracies will ultimately decide what they want to do, and the wheels of the state will turn, and life will go on. I can see very real fiscal benefits in relaxing our drug laws, but I'm also ok with keeping them strict if that's what most people want.

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Re: Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby Belial » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:16 pm UTC

LtNOWIS wrote:
Belial wrote:The great thing about this post is that it looks like it belongs in a totally different thread. Really adds that sort of otherworldly effect that makes the whole piece really pop.


Yeah, I waited a bit too long. It would've been more appropriate 10 posts or so earlier.


Even there, it would still have been a bit absurd. Law enforcement absolutely already has the leeway to decide which crimes are a priority and which aren't. That's why you don't see roving jaywalking crackdowns outside of seattle's insanity. So if they throw absurd amount of effort into finding and busting pot growers, it is absolutely not just because that's what the law says, it's because someone in the chain of command thought it was a really good idea.

Also on the "cops are not just mindless extensions of the law" front, is the fact that police organizations don't just enforce the law, they influence it. They have political action groups. They lobby. They advertise.

So when it's said that law enforcement likes the drug war and has its interests served by it, it's not because they ever enforce drug laws. It's because they enforce them with gusto, actively seek to keep them, seek ever more powers to pursue them, and profit quite extensively thereby.
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Re: Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby PeterCai » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:16 pm UTC

Plasma Man wrote:
PeterCai wrote:i get wanting to decriminalize harmless substances like marijuana, but do people seriously think that legalizing cocaine is a good idea?
Yes.
Occasional cocaine use does not typically lead to severe or even minor physical or social problems … a minority of people start using cocaine or related products, use casually for a short or long period, and suffer little or no negative consequences, even after years of use.


my research showed that when mixed with alcohol(which is a very common combination), it becomes extremely addictive. also, we observed that there were millions of cocaine addicts as of 1994, and the population grew since. we observed that cocaine addiction ruined their lives and the lives of their family and friends. we observed that cocaine addiction harms society as useful, successful members become parasites. now, look at the two legal addiction: alcohol and tobacco, both are very socially acceptable still. i would argue that legalizing cocaine would also cause it to be more socially acceptable, and thus more addicts, and consequently more lives ruined, and more harms done to the society.

disclaimer: i am fairly new to the war on drug debate. sorry about the trite arguments. any citation or study is appreciated.

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Re: Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby Belial » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:21 pm UTC

Another issue to compare this to, Peter, is abstinence education. Yes, keeping everyone from having sex would be a great way to prevent the spread of STDs and teen pregnancy. I mean, it would be miserable and soulless, but it would work. If just by wanting to, or maybe even punishing people, you could keep everyone from doing it.

So, why is it not a fantastic idea again?
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Re: Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby PeterCai » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:29 pm UTC

Belial wrote:Another issue to compare this to, Peter, is abstinence education. Yes, keeping everyone from having sex would be a great way to prevent the spread of STDs and teen pregnancy. I mean, it would be miserable and soulless, but it would work. If just by wanting to, or maybe even punishing people, you could keep everyone from doing it.

So, why is it not a fantastic idea again?


the problem with this comparison is that there is a better way to prevent std and teen pregnancy, while there isn't a (proven)better way to prevent drug addiction, or at least the negative effects of it. plus, drug use is not one of the human basic needs

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Re: Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby AvatarIII » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:31 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:
LtNOWIS wrote:
Belial wrote:The great thing about this post is that it looks like it belongs in a totally different thread. Really adds that sort of otherworldly effect that makes the whole piece really pop.


Yeah, I waited a bit too long. It would've been more appropriate 10 posts or so earlier.

Overall, I don't care too much about the issue. Democracies will ultimately decide what they want to do, and the wheels of the state will turn, and life will go on. I can see very real fiscal benefits in relaxing our drug laws, but I'm also ok with keeping them strict if that's what most people want.

Democracy: two wolves and one lamb, voting on what to eat for lunch.


i really like that metaphor, whether it's true or not is up for debate obviously ,but it sounds awesome. :D

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Re: Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby Belial » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:34 pm UTC

PeterCai wrote:the problem with this comparison is that there is a better way to prevent std and teen pregnancy, while there isn't a (proven)better way to prevent drug addiction, or at least the negative effects of it. plus, drug use is not one of the human basic needs


It's not the best comparison. Prohibition pretty much is. But it hits one of the big principles, which is that criminalization and abstinence-only education both have only one line of defense when it comes to protecting people from their respective big-bads: don't do it. If you do, you're hosed. We've got nothing else for you.

So you have to ask: is (possibly) building a better (but still faaaaar from perfect) first line worth shafting everyone who slips through?
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Re: Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby PeterCai » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:42 pm UTC

Belial wrote:
PeterCai wrote:the problem with this comparison is that there is a better way to prevent std and teen pregnancy, while there isn't a (proven)better way to prevent drug addiction, or at least the negative effects of it. plus, drug use is not one of the human basic needs


It's not the best comparison. Prohibition pretty much is. But it hits one of the big principles, which is that criminalization and abstinence-only education both have only one line of defense when it comes to protecting people from their respective big-bads: don't do it. If you do, you're hosed. We've got nothing else for you.


i see. i am still unsure about the prohibition comparison though. alcohol has been an integral part of our society since day one, while cocaine isn't. one of the reason that prohibition failed is that law went ahead of social convention, in that alcohol use was still widely considered acceptable (even preferred). Cocaine use however is largely shunned by society, and legalizing it may cause it to become more socially acceptable. alcohol and tobacco are two of the major causes of death among western nations, should we really add cocaine to that mix as well?

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Re: Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby Belial » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:46 pm UTC

Are you under the impression that it's not already in that mix?

Also, whose culture? It's certainly been kicking around south america for a longass time, since around about when folks started wearing parrot feathers and ending their calendars on dates that would make people freak out a few millenia later. And part of our strategy for trying to fight cocaine in the states has hinged on attempting to eradicate it there.
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Re: Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby LtNOWIS » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:56 pm UTC

Belial wrote:
Even there, it would still have been a bit absurd. Law enforcement absolutely already has the leeway to decide which crimes are a priority and which aren't. That's why you don't see roving jaywalking crackdowns outside of seattle's insanity. So if they throw absurd amount of effort into finding and busting pot growers, it is absolutely not just because that's what the law says, it's because someone in the chain of command thought it was a really good idea.

Also on the "cops are not just mindless extensions of the law" front, is the fact that police organizations don't just enforce the law, they influence it. They have political action groups. They lobby. They advertise.

So when it's said that law enforcement likes the drug war and has its interests served by it, it's not because they ever enforce drug laws. It's because they enforce them with gusto, actively seek to keep them, seek ever more powers to pursue them, and profit quite extensively thereby.

That's definitely a fair point, but I would point out the following.

1)All non-federal public employees lobby for things that benefit them. They have the right to do so as much as anyone else.
2)The top of the chain of the command is always the elected civilian leadership, who appoint people to lead the police. Unless there's an elected sheriff, in which case the top law enforcement officer is chosen directly by the voters. Either way, law enforcement is ultimately beholden to the will of the people. If the voting public was fed up with overzealous enforcement of drug laws, they would elect leaders who backed off a bit, or who would change the laws to that effect. And they've done so in many cases, and that's great.

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Re: Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby Plasma Man » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:57 pm UTC

PeterCai wrote:i see. i am still unsure about the prohibition comparison though. alcohol has been an integral part of our society since day one, while cocaine isn't. one of the reason that prohibition failed is that law went ahead of social convention, in that alcohol use was still widely considered acceptable (even preferred).
From the study I linked to:
Use of coca leaves appears to have no negative health effects and has positive therapeutic, sacred and social functions for indigenous Andean populations.
Now, I don't know for sure, but I would be willing to bet that humans discovered "hey, eating these plants makes you feel good" before working out how to reliably brew alcoholic drinks.
Speaking of studies, any chance of a link to your research? I'd be interested to have a look at it.
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Re: Global War on Drugs has Failed

Postby PeterCai » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:59 pm UTC

Belial wrote:Are you under the impression that it's not already in that mix?

Also, whose culture? It's certainly been kicking around south america for a longass time, since around about when folks started wearing parrot feathers and ending their calendars on dates that would make people freak out a few millenia later. And part of our strategy for trying to fight cocaine in the states has hinged on attempting to eradicate it there.

Plasma Man wrote:Now, I don't know for sure, but I would be willing to bet that humans discovered "hey, eating these plants makes you feel good" before working out how to reliably brew alcoholic drinks.

I know that it is, but i think that it will be in the mix a lot more if not for criminalization. I think that's a pretty reasonable assumption.
The natives chewed coca leaves, which is very different from directly using cocaine.
Plasma Man wrote:Speaking of studies, any chance of a link to your research? I'd be interested to have a look at it.

" The trend in drug abuse in the United States is presently multiple or polydrug abuse, and cocaine is no exception. Cocaine is often used with alcohol, sedatives such as Valium, Ativan, or heroin, as an upper/downer combination. The other drug is also used to moderate the side effects of the primary addiction. A common polydrug abuse problem, seen especially in adolescents, is cocaine, alcohol, and marijuana.

not a study, but an article written by respectable expert: http://www.emedicinehealth.com/cocaine_ ... cle_em.htm


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