Explosion in Oslo

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Thirty-one
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby Thirty-one » Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:14 pm UTC

Mittagessen wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:Something else was probably wrong. Did he have trouble finding a girlfriend for which he blamed 'foreigners'? Perhaps he had trouble finding a satisfying job? Or maybe I'm overthinking this, and some people are just assholes.


Read his manifesto. It's all in there. I'm around a hundred pages in and have to say that while it's still batshit crazy overall it has more logical coherence and grasp of reality than almost all of the stuff I'm used to read from the far right (especially the Tea Party types). I.e. he advocates several (misogynistic) ways to increase the indigenous birth rate in Western Europe but acknowledges that those measures constitute a profound violation of human rights. By now I've come to the conclusion that only his actions set him apart from the generic right-winger and not necessarily his extremism.
On another note: He's used texts by "mainstream" Islam critics extensively. Of course they're all shocked now that something like this could've happened after decades of incitement against non-white immigration and try to dissassociate their works from his actions.


It's hard to say how much of the somewhat coherent stuff is his though. He's reported to have lifted a lot of stuff from both the Unabomber and some extreme right writer calling himself "Fjordman".
I'm also unsure how logically coherent it is to on one hand claim the people are oppressed by an elite of "cultural marxists", but that democracy as an option is out because "anti-immigration parties will likely never get more than 35% of the vote in elections". At best he's confusing the word elite with the word majority.
The diary has quite a different form from the other stuff, including a lot of smileys and LOLs.
From the description he gives of his family, he seems rather ashamed of them all, something that partly seems to stem from his earlier Muslim friend's view on how westerners (and their women) behave.

More so than intelligent he comes off as incredibly willing to grind to me. Sort of dumb, but dedicated.
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby mmmcannibalism » Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:17 pm UTC

I'm also unsure how logically coherent it is to on one hand claim the people are oppressed by an elite of "cultural marxists", but that democracy as an option is out because "anti-immigration parties will likely never get more than 35% of the vote in elections". At best he's confusing the word elite with the word majority.


wasn't his point that people are afraid of being called nazi's because they are being controlled by elites? That explains the above consistently.
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby Thirty-one » Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:20 pm UTC

mmmcannibalism wrote:
I'm also unsure how logically coherent it is to on one hand claim the people are oppressed by an elite of "cultural marxists", but that democracy as an option is out because "anti-immigration parties will likely never get more than 35% of the vote in elections". At best he's confusing the word elite with the word majority.


wasn't his point that people are afraid of being called nazi's because they are being controlled by elites? That explains the above consistently.


Too afraid to simply vote according to their opinions? Where does that leave democracy in his mind?
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby broken_escalator » Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:21 pm UTC

Gellert1984 wrote:neural chip implants allowing our beloved leaders to 'permanently suspend' us if we commit acts against society, this would never happen!

Wait, you didn't get a neural chip? Its a lot more comfortable than it looks. Why don't you come over here and have a seat while I give you one...

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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby Deep_Thought » Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:24 pm UTC

Thirty-one wrote:More so than intelligent he comes off as incredibly willing to grind to me. Sort of dumb, but dedicated.

Were you aware when you wrote that of his self-professed love of World of Warcraft? He listed it specifically as a good excuse to get people to stop bothering you as you withdraw from society (as in if friends start asking why you aren't coming out much anymore just tell them you're addicted to WoW). So yes, willingness to grind would be a good way to put it.

@mmmcannibalism - I am always wary of trying to find too much consistency in demonstrably crazy people's thinking. It's difficult enough to find it when listening to mostly sane people.

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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby mmmcannibalism » Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:32 pm UTC

Thirty-one wrote:
mmmcannibalism wrote:
I'm also unsure how logically coherent it is to on one hand claim the people are oppressed by an elite of "cultural marxists", but that democracy as an option is out because "anti-immigration parties will likely never get more than 35% of the vote in elections". At best he's confusing the word elite with the word majority.


wasn't his point that people are afraid of being called nazi's because they are being controlled by elites? That explains the above consistently.


Too afraid to simply vote according to their opinions? Where does that leave democracy in his mind?


Not afraid, just convinced by elites to vote against what he saw as their own interests.
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby Роберт » Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:34 pm UTC

mmmcannibalism wrote:Not afraid, just convinced by elites to vote against what he saw as their own interests.

Yeah, democracy only works with some form of transparency, so if the "elites" in control of the information are feeding everyone lies, they can basically hijack the vote.
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby Thirty-one » Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:38 pm UTC

Deep_Thought wrote:
Thirty-one wrote:More so than intelligent he comes off as incredibly willing to grind to me. Sort of dumb, but dedicated.

Were you aware when you wrote that of his self-professed love of World of Warcraft? He listed it specifically as a good excuse to get people to stop bothering you as you withdraw from society (as in if friends start asking why you aren't coming out much anymore just tell them you're addicted to WoW). So yes, willingness to grind would be a good way to put it.


Yup. Though from other people's accounts it was a trait they'd noticed in him well before WoW.

Роберт wrote:
mmmcannibalism wrote:Not afraid, just convinced by elites to vote against what he saw as their own interests.

Yeah, democracy only works with some form of transparency, so if the "elites" in control of the information are feeding everyone lies, they can basically hijack the vote.


Fair point, I suppose.
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby Mittagessen » Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:03 pm UTC

Thirty-one wrote:I'm also unsure how logically coherent it is to on one hand claim the people are oppressed by an elite of "cultural marxists", but that democracy as an option is out because "anti-immigration parties will likely never get more than 35% of the vote in elections". At best he's confusing the word elite with the word majority.


From the stuff I read I got the impression that while he is crazy on a macroscopic scale he had enough sense left that if anybody on the other end of the political spectrum had met him and they'd have a discussion about their beliefs it would at least resemble a fruitful discourse. Ultimatively pointless of course, but his views and arguments are further away from Neonazi parties and Christian fundamentalists than mainstream (European) far-rightism. I wouldn't lash an eyebrow if some member of the CSU (Christian-Social Party, the right wing of mainstream German conservatism) would utter the same or similar attitudes towards immigrants, women and non-religious folks.

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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby Steax » Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:59 pm UTC

I've been too terrified about the whole thing to post here.

But then, reading the BBC article, I realized the true terror that will forever haunt the survivors: how did those kids know the officers who were rescuing them are real? How are they not more disguised gunmen? I can only imagine how scary it was to hide and wait and, after an hour, find an officer walking towards you... And you have no idea who he is.
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby aoeu » Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:11 pm UTC

bentheimmigrant wrote:Surely it makes no real difference to him whether he's tried as insane or not - either way he's in a country that will treat him humanely, and either way he'll be declared too dangerous to release.

It lengthens the publicity show.

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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby sardia » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:41 pm UTC

Steax wrote:I've been too terrified about the whole thing to post here.

But then, reading the BBC article, I realized the true terror that will forever haunt the survivors: how did those kids know the officers who were rescuing them are real? How are they not more disguised gunmen? I can only imagine how scary it was to hide and wait and, after an hour, find an officer walking towards you... And you have no idea who he is.

Real officers don't carry weapons.
Edit: Like to add if you are lucky enough to see if he's carrying a weapon in the first place.

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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby Adacore » Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:14 pm UTC

I had no idea the Norwegian justice system was so progressive. I hope they can hold onto those values in the face of this, I'm fairly confident that they can, but it would be a terrible shame if they didn't. A 20% reoffending rate is ridiculously low, why on earth don't other countries follow their lead?

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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby Deep_Thought » Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:24 pm UTC

Because so many of us are still caught up in the idea that prison should primarily be about punishment rather than protecting the public*?

I've seen a lot of places reporting that the maximum sentence in Norway is only 30 years. What provision is there for just declaring him insane and a danger to the public?

*I include rehabilitation as an extension of protecting the public once the prisoner's sentence is finished.

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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby Роберт » Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:29 pm UTC

Deep_Thought wrote:Because so many of us are still caught up in the idea that prison should primarily be about punishment rather than protecting the public*?

I've seen a lot of places reporting that the maximum sentence in Norway is only 30 years. What provision is there for just declaring him insane and a danger to the public?

*I include rehabilitation as an extension of protecting the public once the prisoner's sentence is finished.

Read the article.
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby Deep_Thought » Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:59 pm UTC

Sorry, missed the bit about confining him to psychiatric care.

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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby bentheimmigrant » Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:21 pm UTC

Also, the potential 5 year extensions that could theoretically be applied indefinitely.
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby Steax » Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:32 pm UTC

sardia wrote:
Steax wrote:I've been too terrified about the whole thing to post here.

But then, reading the BBC article, I realized the true terror that will forever haunt the survivors: how did those kids know the officers who were rescuing them are real? How are they not more disguised gunmen? I can only imagine how scary it was to hide and wait and, after an hour, find an officer walking towards you... And you have no idea who he is.

Real officers don't carry weapons.
Edit: Like to add if you are lucky enough to see if he's carrying a weapon in the first place.


I'd assume that officers responding to a rampaging gunman would be carry some sort of weapon. They wouldn't even know if he was hiding as one of the kids.
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby Axman » Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:07 am UTC

Steax wrote:I'd assume that officers responding to a rampaging gunman would be carry some sort of weapon. They wouldn't even know if he was hiding as one of the kids.

That's one element of the delayed response; only certain officers are armed, and those that were had been called to Oslo. Norway just doesn't/didn't have the plans or resources to deal with a multi-tiered attack like this.

Any word on if the XKCD parish has been directly affected? If there were, there's probably something we could do.

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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby Pazuzu » Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:24 am UTC

There's been too much focus on the "slow" reaction from the police regarding the shooting at Utøya. While everyone would of course like to have seen a quicker reaction, it really wasn't as bad as it seems. It took only an hour from the moment they got the first alert until they were present at Utøya, and this includes local police assessing the scenario first only to deem that they needed help from the special response group. In addition to this, they had a very unfortunate mishap with the first boats engine failing as they were ready to leave the shore, so they had to acquire another boat... Given the fact that there had just been a bombing which seemed to be targeted at our prime minister/other important figures of the public, the reaction time is pretty impressive. Most of the time was spent traveling, waiting for a new boat and of course assessing the situation and preparing the operation.

We know that ABB was shooting at civilian boats nearing Utøya trying to help the kids, and the boat with the special response team could obviously not head towards Utøya in a direction that would potentially put them in the line of fire.

I've read a lot of the articles in the foreign media about this attack, and both the articles and the commentary sections have got so many things wrong it annoys me. If anyone on XKCD have any questions regarding Norwegian law/culture/society, feel free to ask me and I will answer to the best of my ability. I'm a Norwegian living in Oslo. Luckily I haven't been directly affected myself, but I have friends and family participating both in politics and youth politics, albeit with different organizations.

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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby Mother Superior » Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:10 pm UTC

Just one quick question then, Pazuzu; Norwegian police officers carry guns, don't they? I know Swedish officers do. True, it'd be unfair to ask them go up against a military assault rifle with their service pistols, just curious.
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby Axman » Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:50 pm UTC

Pazuzu wrote:There's been too much focus on the "slow" reaction from the police regarding the shooting at Utøya. While everyone would of course like to have seen a quicker reaction, it really wasn't as bad as it seems... Given the fact that there had just been a bombing which seemed to be targeted at our prime minister/other important figures of the public, the reaction time is pretty impressive.

That's not really a defensible position when there were news helicopter shooting footage of Breivik for more than an hour before police set foot on the island, and it's not at all reasonable for emergency services to only be able to handle one disaster at a time.

Mother Superior wrote:Just one quick question then, Pazuzu; Norwegian police officers carry guns, don't they? I know Swedish officers do. True, it'd be unfair to ask them go up against a military assault rifle with their service pistols, just curious.

It wasn't an assault rifle, it was a (legal) small caliber hunting rifle, and a notoriously inaccurate one at that. He wanted to smuggle an (illegal) assault rifle in from Prague but wasn't able to find one. The police not having access to weapons is also not reasonable.

I'm not saying that I don't understand what happened, I do. I am sympathetic to the police as they certainly didn't have the equipment, means, or organization to deal with a terrorist attack, even a simple one like this. But that doesn't mean it's excusable.

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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby Thirty-one » Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:20 pm UTC

Mother Superior wrote:Just one quick question then, Pazuzu; Norwegian police officers carry guns, don't they? I know Swedish officers do. True, it'd be unfair to ask them go up against a military assault rifle with their service pistols, just curious.


I'm not an expert, and I rarely run into the police, but I don't recall seeing any of them carrying guns. I vaguely recall reading sometime in the past that they may have guns in their cars that they can radio in for access to. Generally people here don't want armed police, and their union is against it too.
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby Axman » Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:45 pm UTC

The Norwegian police keep their weapons at their station houses, which are equipped with pistols and sub-machine guns. They personally carry only pepper spray. The procedure calls/called (who knows what it is now) for the Home Guard to deal with assaults, but they were ordered to remain in Oslo.

As a result of these attacks, each house will have a task force unit attached to it with special training and equipment, i.e. rifles.

Police in general don't carry guns since violence is rare and civilian gun ownership in Norway is incredibly high, something like 32% of the population owns a rifle. Because of the polar bears, I shit you not. Polar bears eat people. That and a pretty robust gun culture. But the island was a resort and not at all residential, so, yeah.

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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby johnny_7713 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:31 pm UTC

Axman wrote:
Pazuzu wrote:There's been too much focus on the "slow" reaction from the police regarding the shooting at Utøya. While everyone would of course like to have seen a quicker reaction, it really wasn't as bad as it seems... Given the fact that there had just been a bombing which seemed to be targeted at our prime minister/other important figures of the public, the reaction time is pretty impressive.

That's not really a defensible position when there were news helicopter shooting footage of Breivik for more than an hour before police set foot on the island, and it's not at all reasonable for emergency services to only be able to handle one disaster at a time.


So how many policemen + equipment would fit in the news helicopter? And could the news helicopter indeed deliver said policemen to the island in a way that minimised their risk of being fired upon while exiting the helicopter? Oslo police have their own helicopter, but due to budget constraints it was not in operating condition at the time. Likewise all the armed response units available had been sent into Oslo. In the end emergency response forces cost money, and at some point you have to decide how much money you can afford to spend on unlikely events. I'd like to know of any emergency services that can handle more than one disaster at a time. I'm pretty sure the services here don't have the capacity to handle a simultaneous plane crash and train collision for example

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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby Axman » Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:28 pm UTC

johnny_7713, I agree with you, the police did not have the equipment, means, or organization necessary to deal with an attack, but again, that's not an excuse, just the facts of their circumstance. There was at least one boat ferrying survivors off the island, he's credited with saving 30 people before the police arrived (and subsequently ordered him to stay put). With the helicopters, I was stressing that it was in fact quite easy to respond to events occurring on the island, and that the police lacked that ability, not to mention back-up plans, alternatives, and improvisational wherewithal.

There are only two things, as far as I can tell, that would have mitigated these attacks, and one thing that could have prevented them.

1. The Norwegian government should not have locked down the emergency response center (911). The intention was ostensibly to prevent overloading by callers, but the effect was an information blackout that lasted almost an hour.

2. The Home Guard and other capable security forces should not have been all ordered to remain in Oslo. Utøy, by land and sea, is less than 40km (25mi) away but when your entire response is sequestered to one city you clearly increase the risk everywhere else.

3. Norwegian security discarded the Polish intelligence that Reivik had the means to construct a great deal of explosives (he only used 1/20th of his supplies). There was no investigation (although there probably will be one now).

Reivik wrote/plagiarized a 1500-page manifesto; that doesn't make him Heidegger. He owned three guns; that doesn't make him Carlos the Jackal. He was a rank amateur, meeting only the bare minimums of capability to imagine a cultural cleansing of Norway and Europe, and the same goes for his abilities as a tactician-slash-murderer. His success in terrorism only reflects the general ineffectiveness of Norway's counter-terrorism.

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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby Arnvidr » Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:58 pm UTC

Consider that no one knew how serious this situation was at the same instant that it was reported. Consider that regular police was at the scene fairly quickly to assess the situation. Consider the distance of Utøya from Oslo. I think it's pretty damn good that the culprit was apprehended in just slightly over 40 minutes after the special units got the order to move from Oslo.

I haven't read too many foreign media reports on this, but I trust Pazuzu that they are rife with factual errors, because some of the things I've seen people saying on various forums are just beyond belief. You'd think people I would normally consider rational people had just started trolling.

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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby Thirty-one » Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:06 pm UTC

Axman wrote:Police in general don't carry guns since violence is rare and civilian gun ownership in Norway is incredibly high, something like 32% of the population owns a rifle. Because of the polar bears, I shit you not.


Yes, you do. Surely there are other threads more apt for making shit up?
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby Axman » Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:43 pm UTC

Don't Shoot the Bear

The Atlantic wrote:Near the outskirts of Longyearbyen (population 2,000), the administrative center of Norway’s Svalbard archipelago and the world’s northernmost town, I noticed an attractive young woman pushing a pram. Nothing particularly unusual about that, except that the woman had a 30.06 rifle slung over her shoulder.

The rifle’s message wasn’t “Mess with me or my kid, and I’ll blow you to kingdom come.” Rather, the rifle was protection against polar bears. Unlike the armor-clad Svalbard bears in Philip Pullman’s The Golden Compass, the archipelago’s nonfictional bears have been known to include human beings in their diet.

Thus, it’s a good idea to carry a firearm if you’re venturing outside of town.

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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby Thirty-one » Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:45 pm UTC

So you're claiming 32% of us own a rifle because polar bears live where 2000 (or roughly 0.05% of our population) of us live? Not sure what to say to that.

Chiefs of police can also designate squad cars as storage for both pistols and sub-machine guns, if they feel it's justified. If you have info there are no such cars in Oslo from somewhere credible, do share.

http://www.regjeringen.no/nb/dep/jd/dok ... ?id=199316

And from the info in the press, he used half, not 1/20 of his main explosive. I could be off on that though.
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby Pazuzu » Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:48 pm UTC

First, a very moving youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duIAeMY5NQc
It contains footage from the "rose march" in Oslo in memory of the victims. I was there in the beginning, but work unfortunately prevented me from staying. The info for the video contains a quip about the difference between Bush's and Stoltenberg's reaction to terrorism attacks that can safely be disregarded; I promise the footage is very nice.

Axman is talking out of his ass. He's right about policemen not being armed. This is a principle in Norway; we believe in what we call (loosely translated, probably there is an english saying for this) "spiral of violence". Basically, if the police arm themselves, so will the criminals. Then the police would have to arm themselves even more, and so would the criminals... It is extremely rare to see shootings in Norway, and policemen are very rarely killed or injured.

To say that the Norwegian population is armed in defence against polar bears is just ridiculous. Yes, longyearbyen has polar bears. That's an island in the far north. There are no polar bears on the mainland or on any other island. I don't have any numbers on what percentage of the population has access to firearms, but I doubt it's as high as 30% unless you count those currently in military service. To own a firearm you need to prove that you use it either for hunting or sporting usage. It requires a license from the police for each individual firearm. For sporting use you have to be member of a valid gun sports club for at least six months (active membership only). For hunting rifles/shotguns you need to pass a hunters exam and most likely participate in activities that resemble the rules for owning a handgun, although I do not know this for sure. I'm a member of at gun sports club myself, but I do not own a gun.

As for criticism of the police: If the Utøya attack had not happened and the police hadn't directed all available personnel's attention towards what was a terrorist attack against several government buildings, I'm fairly sure Axman would have criticised that as well. The bomb was close to the city centre of Oslo. The blast could be felt on the main shopping street. Ofcourse we needed every police officer available to:
Search for the assailant
Redirect all civilians away from the bomb site
Find all important members of the public
All those other things that we don't even think about but still are important.

Yes there was a civilian who came to aid to the scene before the police arrived. Because he was located at the beach on the mainland, with a boat ready, as the shooting started. I'm fairly sure the special branch would have responded as quickly as he did if they had the same advantage.

As for "the ineffectiveness" of Norway's counter-terrorism, I don't believe anyone here cares about a pissing contest. I do however think you are wrong in so many ways that we'll probably never find agreement on anything in this matter. I will however agree that it could be better. It can always be better. I'm just not sure why it would make sense for Norway to spend billions on equipment that will never be used. I very much doubt it would have helped much on Utøya in any case.

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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby Dauric » Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:53 pm UTC

That's what I love about these forums, something happens halfway around the world and somebody who posts here actually lives there and can provide some actual context.
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby Thirty-one » Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:57 pm UTC

Pazuzu wrote:I don't have any numbers on what percentage of the population has access to firearms, but I doubt it's as high as 30% unless you count those currently in military service.


Haven't checked their sources, but we're at nearly 32% according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... _ownership
[edit]Looking it over now, I see that's not the percentage of homes, but rather a firearms per person sort of thing.[/edit]

That'd include everything though, not just rifles. It's not uncommon for people to own just shotguns (for birds or skeet shooting) where I live, so rifle ownership should be lower.

Other than that though, I agree, talking out of his ass a lot, by the looks of it.
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby Jesse » Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:17 pm UTC

He's a journalist, what do you expect?

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Triangle_Man
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby Triangle_Man » Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:34 pm UTC

Jesse wrote:He's a journalist, what do you expect?


Now that's just a low blow to journalists (even though Axman turned out to be completely wrong on that point).

That being said, what is Norway currently doing in the wake of the attacks? I heard that life was returning to normal over there, but I could easily be wrong on that point.
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby Pazuzu » Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:08 am UTC

Life is returning to normal. Different people react differently, of course, but on the overall it's business as usual now. There's been a few scares though, with police investigating other potential bombs. All of these have turned out just to be silly things the police might not even have investigated before ABB. The police obviously feels a need to be on extra high alert these days, but the rest of us have calmed down.

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Gellert1984
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby Gellert1984 » Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:44 am UTC

A BBC reporter said this morning that ABB is claiming there are 2 more terrorist 'cells' active in norway. ABB will also be assessed by psychiatrists.

The youngest identified dead victim is Johannes Buoe at 14 years of age.
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Deep_Thought
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby Deep_Thought » Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:04 am UTC

Pazuzu wrote:Life is returning to normal. Different people react differently, of course, but on the overall it's business as usual now. There's been a few scares though, with police investigating other potential bombs. All of these have turned out just to be silly things the police might not even have investigated before ABB. The police obviously feels a need to be on extra high alert these days, but the rest of us have calmed down.

This sounds quite similar to London after the 7th July bombings. Of course, how the press and politicians react is another matter entirely. Your Prime Minister sounds like quite a sensible chap though, so good luck.

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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby addams » Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:19 pm UTC

Deep_Thought wrote:
Pazuzu wrote:Life is returning to normal. Different people react differently, of course, but on the overall it's business as usual now. There's been a few scares though, with police investigating other potential bombs. All of these have turned out just to be silly things the police might not even have investigated before ABB. The police obviously feels a need to be on extra high alert these days, but the rest of us have calmed down.

This sounds quite similar to London after the 7th July bombings. Of course, how the press and politicians react is another matter entirely. Your Prime Minister sounds like quite a sensible chap though, so good luck.


It is good to read that your people are so stable. Yes. You must be extra special nice to your Police. Your Police are the good guys. Right? This must be so upsetting to them. That man was able to do so much damage, because, the people like and trust the Police. Right?
The Police were not the bad guys. The bad guy pretended to be one of them. This is a condition where the Police are victims, too. I wonder; Are they having some collective guilt? Are they questioning themselves? They are you and they may feel like they let you down. They didn't, but, good guy Police feel responsible for the safety and well being of the people. When things go well, they feel proud. When thing go so very wrong, they may feel more sad than the average person. Maybe. Have you talked to any? They might want to talk about it. A thing like that makes a Police person nervous.

I read a story about how the King of Denmark could walk through the streets. People knew who he was and he was able to talk to most of the people easily. The people respected him and he respected them.
I was told that it is true. It may have been fiction. But, it was a history book.
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Arnvidr
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Postby Arnvidr » Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:01 pm UTC

Our royalty can do that, although they don't usually. Most politicians do, although the prime minister probably have a bit more security around him.

edit: Yeah, Norwegian here...


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