DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

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DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby podbaydoor » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:37 pm UTC

\o/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/1 ... 69980.html
By ROBERT BURNS, Associated Press

WASHINGTON -- The military has begun accepting applications from openly gay recruits but will not act on them until the legal ban on openly gay service is lifted Tuesday, says a Pentagon official.

Pentagon press secretary George Little said Monday that the military is adequately prepared for the end of the current policy, commonly known as "don't ask, don't tell," under which gays can serve as long as they don't openly acknowledge their sexual orientation and commanders are not allowed to ask.

"No one should be left with the impression that we are unprepared. We are prepared for repeal," Little said.

Last week, the Pentagon said 97 percent of the military has undergone training in the new law.

The ban will end at one minute after midnight. At that time, revised Defense Department regulations will take effect, to reflect the new law that will allow gays to serve openly.

President Barack Obama signed the law last December, and in July he certified that lifting the ban will not diminish the military's ability to fight.

Little said Defense Secretary Leon Panetta would discuss the matter at a Pentagon news conference on Tuesday. The Pentagon otherwise was taking a low-key approach to the historic day.

Gay rights groups, however, were preparing a series of celebrations.

Servicemembers Legal Defense Network said repeal supporters would hold "Repeal Day" celebrations across the country Tuesday.

"Through these events taking place in every state across the country we will pay tribute to their service and sacrifice as we look forward to this new era of military service - an era that honors the contributions of all qualified Americans who have served and wish to serve," said Aubrey Sarvis, an Army veteran and executive director of the advocacy group.

___

Associated Press writer Pauline Jelinek contributed to this report.
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Re: DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby sourmìlk » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:45 pm UTC

I really don't think there's much to say other than "w00t."
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Re: DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby pseudoidiot » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:51 pm UTC

I'll throw in a "fuck yea" for good measure.
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Re: DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby sourmìlk » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:52 pm UTC

pseudoidiot wrote:I'll throw in a "fuck yea" for good measure.


Of course, people are going to look back on this the same way I look back on the 40s and think "Wow, african-americans were kept in separate military units?"
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Re: DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby Iulus Cofield » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:09 pm UTC

pseudoidiot wrote:I'll throw in a "fuck yea" for good measure.


Second.

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Re: DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby Thesh » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:11 pm UTC

Ugh... Next thing you know they'll allow women to vote. What is this country coming to?
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Re: DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby sourmìlk » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:16 pm UTC

Thesh wrote:Ugh... Next thing you know they'll allow women to vote. What is this country coming to?

I hear that in some state, interracial couples and even gays can get married. Moral decay!
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Re: DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby Duban » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:31 pm UTC

sourmìlk wrote:
Thesh wrote:Ugh... Next thing you know they'll allow women to vote. What is this country coming to?

I hear that in some state, interracial couples and even gays can get married. Moral decay!

Yup, my home state of Connecticut is a bastion of moral decay and the breakdown of society. Homosexuals don't just get civil unions they get FULL MAIRRAIGE. It's madness that we let this heinous crime go so far! It must be the all the insurance agents in our state. They must be running some sort HIV scam.


Ooc(Out of character): In all seriousness <3 for CT. Except for a handful of religious zealots it's not even considered controversial. The fact that so many other states are against gay marriage is a bigger deal. It also says a lot that a law that was so controversial because it was so accepting of Gay people is now being repealed because it's considered too restrictive toward them.
Last edited by Duban on Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:55 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby lutzj » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:50 pm UTC

Duban wrote:Ooc(Out of character): In all seriousness <3 for CT. Except for a handful of religious zealots it's not even considered controversial. The fact that so many other states are against gay marriage is a bigger deal. It says a lot that a law that was so controversial because it was so accepting of Gay people is now being repealed because it's considered too restrictive toward them.


It's worth noting that civil unions (but not full marriage) were passed by the legislature and signed by the Republican then-governor without much fuss; full gay marriage, on the other hand, was only narrowly put into place by the courts, and there was a lot more opposition to that. Of course, "opposition" here mostly means "I'll say I oppose it in opinion polls and private conversation but it's unlikely to get me to protest or change my voting habits."
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Re: DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby sourmìlk » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:50 pm UTC

I'm seriously hoping that California's proposition 8 goes to the supreme court, who should rule it unlawful under the 14th amendment, thus requiring all states to wed gays.
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Re: DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby Thesh » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:58 pm UTC

Well, I did some research, and according to the trustworthy encyclopedia, the repeal is simply a liberal effort to sabotage America's military.

Spoiler:
Duban wrote:Ooc(Out of character): In all seriousness <3 for CT. Except for a handful of religious zealots it's not even considered controversial. The fact that so many other states are against gay marriage is a bigger deal. It says a lot that a law that was so controversial because it was so accepting of Gay people is now being repealed because it's considered too restrictive toward them.


Unfortunately, the Hispanic communities in California tend to be very Catholic. I suspect this is why legalizing same-sex marriage had more support in Connecticut.
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Re: DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby sourmìlk » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:07 pm UTC

Thesh wrote:Well, I did some research, and according to the trustworthy encyclopedia, the repeal is simply a liberal effort to sabotage America's military.


That's hilarious. They don't even try to make it seem like they're being credible. They make a bare faced assertion and then quote somebody from a known hate organization.
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Re: DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby Magnanimous » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:30 pm UTC

It's one minute after midnight EST, right? I'll be sure to count down in true celabratory fashion.

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Re: DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby badmartialarts » Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:45 am UTC

Pentagon press secretary George Little said Monday that the military is adequately prepared for the end of the current policy, commonly known as "don't ask, don't tell," under which gays can serve as long as they don't openly acknowledge their sexual orientation and commanders are not allowed to ask.


At my National Guard unit, we got to watch a 20 minute PowerPoint presentation explaining that any issues would be dealt with under the same channels that equal opportunity, sexual harassment, and/or assault are dealt with currently. There, we're prepared. :)

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Re: DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby Nordic Einar » Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:35 am UTC

Keep in mind that before DADT existed the Pentagon had outright bans of LGBT troops via-policy, and there exists nothing to stop them from having that again. Further, it's wonderful for LGB service members but does fuck all for trans individuals who want to fight. And doesn't solve any of the domestic partner benefits that are denied to service men and women.

This is a far cry from full federal equality. We have to keep pushing, even in the field of military equality.

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Re: DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby Kayangelus » Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:48 am UTC

Nordic Einar wrote:This is a far cry from full federal equality. We have to keep pushing, even in the field of military equality.


Just because it isn't full equality doesn't mean it isn't a step in the right direction, worth celebrating and congratulating the politicians who pushed it through... for a short bit, and then resetting our standards to a higher level, and demanding that.

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Re: DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby Lucrece » Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:52 am UTC

Now they need to allow females into infantry.
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Re: DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby Giant Speck » Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:45 am UTC

Thesh wrote:Well, I did some research, and according to the trustworthy encyclopedia, the repeal is simply a liberal effort to sabotage America's military.


openly gay soldiers are a risk to lower morale


So that means they'll raise morale, right?


In other news, as someone that currently serves, I'm incredibly happy to see this chapter in American military history finally come to a close.
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Re: DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby Aikanaro » Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:07 pm UTC

Thesh wrote:Well, I did some research, and according to the trustworthy encyclopedia, the repeal is simply a liberal effort to sabotage America's military.

Spoiler:
Duban wrote:Ooc(Out of character): In all seriousness <3 for CT. Except for a handful of religious zealots it's not even considered controversial. The fact that so many other states are against gay marriage is a bigger deal. It says a lot that a law that was so controversial because it was so accepting of Gay people is now being repealed because it's considered too restrictive toward them.


Unfortunately, the Hispanic communities in California tend to be very Catholic. I suspect this is why legalizing same-sex marriage had more support in Connecticut.

Y'know, I know some folks go on trolling edit sprees on there, but mostly I'd just have the urge to run through and plaster [citation needed] all over the freakin' place.
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Re: DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby Angua » Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:59 pm UTC

I just thought that I'd leave this article here - it's about how far there is still left to go before the inequality has been ended.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14937978
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Re: DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby Arancaytar » Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:05 pm UTC

One hopeful side effect is that extremist nutjobs get a disincentive to join the military.
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Re: DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby Jahoclave » Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:25 pm UTC

sourmìlk wrote:
Thesh wrote:Well, I did some research, and according to the trustworthy encyclopedia, the repeal is simply a liberal effort to sabotage America's military.


That's hilarious. They don't even try to make it seem like they're being credible. They make a bare faced assertion and then quote somebody from a known hate organization.

Damn, we should have thought about that beforehand. "If you invade Iraq, you'll have to allow gays into the military." Invasion thwarted. Seriously though, you should check their list of conservative rock songs, with such notable conservatives as the Sex Pistols and Greenday. Meanwhile, on the other side of the Schlafly family, BEER! That's what I really love about that family. Conservative fucks on one side and a damn good beer on the other.


Also, I think there is only one real way to celebrate this. In the Navy!

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Re: DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby Xeio » Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:28 pm UTC

Aikanaro wrote:Y'know, I know some folks go on trolling edit sprees on there, but mostly I'd just have the urge to run through and plaster [citation needed] all over the freakin' place.
Did you see the (one and only) citation on that page? I don't think Citation Needed will help... :shock:

It's almost painful to read it, and they have other works by the author... aaaaaaaaaaa.

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Re: DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby Jahoclave » Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:02 pm UTC

Also, I don't think this sentence means what he thinks it means:
as openly gay soldiers are a risk to lower morale
.

So what you're saying is that gay soldiers have a potential to thwart lower morale? We're risking losing our low morale by letting the gays server openly.

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Re: DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby thc » Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:05 pm UTC

Jahoclave wrote:Also, I don't think this sentence means what he thinks it means:
as openly gay soldiers are a risk to lower morale
.

So what you're saying is that gay soldiers have a potential to thwart lower morale? We're risking losing our low morale by letting the gays server openly.


You realize that "to" has more than one meaning, right? Semantically, it can be read either way. and even if it were wrong, are you seriously going to harp on a grammar mistake on the internet?

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Re: DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby Jahoclave » Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:03 pm UTC

thc wrote:
Jahoclave wrote:Also, I don't think this sentence means what he thinks it means:
as openly gay soldiers are a risk to lower morale
.

So what you're saying is that gay soldiers have a potential to thwart lower morale? We're risking losing our low morale by letting the gays server openly.


You realize that "to" has more than one meaning, right? Semantically, it can be read either way. and even if it were wrong, are you seriously going to harp on a grammar mistake on the internet?

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Re: DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby Garm » Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:11 pm UTC

Since I drive around blasting NPR in my car with my windows down, I heard a good rebuttal to the morale claim today from a Marine Officer who just came out of the closet. He said something along the lines of "if you're going to be so disarmed by the mere physical presence of a gay soldier that you can't do your job, how can you call yourself a marine?"
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Re: DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby podbaydoor » Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:34 am UTC

I heard the same NPR interview. It's a great story.
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Re: DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:47 am UTC

Most of my military friends are totally indifferent to it one way or the other. I'm curious to hear what other military people have to say about it. PBD, your guy man dude? What's he think?
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Re: DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby podbaydoor » Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:02 am UTC

He said that he's had a few good friends/subordinates who were railroaded out of the military because of DADT, so he's happy to see it go.
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Re: DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby Whammy » Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:56 am UTC

While I'm personally glad to hear about this just from the perspective of civil rights, I'm now afraid to call my mom. Unfortunately her and her husband are rather conservative, and she still thinks anyone who was homosexual before DADT was implemented should still be expelled cause they lied on their recruitment and so are dishonorable and blah blah blah.

Oh, and she refused to believe the Defense Dept. survey from a few months back that found most people in the military did not have a problem with homosexual members, stating that the results are meaningless cause, due to DADT, members didn't KNOW if they actually served with a homosexual or not.




There is a reason I really need to stop talking politics with her, but I have a sick pleasure in listening to her talk like that sometimes XD. That aside, I am glad to see they'll be able to serve openly now, and hope they'll eventually get the same benefits as heterosexual couples (I remember another site discussing this and they brought up that particular issue...).

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Re: DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby Iulus Cofield » Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:01 am UTC

Whammy wrote:she still thinks anyone who was homosexual before DADT was implemented should still be expelled cause they lied on their recruitment and so are dishonorable and blah blah blah.


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Re: DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby podbaydoor » Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:07 am UTC

Iulus, it's because of all that lower morale risk-taking that they do.
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Re: DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby Whammy » Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:11 am UTC

Iulus Cofield wrote:
Whammy wrote:she still thinks anyone who was homosexual before DADT was implemented should still be expelled cause they lied on their recruitment and so are dishonorable and blah blah blah.


Image


I wish I was joking about that, but she seriously believes that. Unless that image is because admittedly I typed that weird ("homosexual and in the military before DADT was implemented" is what I should have put). I remember when that survey came out and I was talking about it, and she started saying things like that and I was just :shock: ...you can't be serious?

She was; she seriously thinks that since they lied on recruitment they should still be discharged for some reason that really only made sense to her. We got into a bit of a yelling match and it's been a while so I'm fuzzy on what her logic was.

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Re: DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby Garm » Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:12 am UTC

Whammy wrote:She was; she seriously thinks that since they lied on recruitment they should still be discharged for some reason that really only made sense to her. We got into a bit of a yelling match and it's been a while so I'm fuzzy on what her logic was.


Doesn't sound like there's much logic there.
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Re: DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby Giant Speck » Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:14 am UTC

I don't recall ever having to say I was straight when going through enlistment paperwork to join the Air Force...

If someone asked these homosexual recruits if they were homosexual or heterosexual while enlisting, then policy was already being violated.
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Re: DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby podbaydoor » Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:18 am UTC

The logic goes "Gays are icky ==> They should stay out of everything, ever." It starts with the gut feeling unsupported by anything. The rest is window dressing twisted into interesting shapes so the person can both dismiss contradictory evidence and continue to feel like a good person.

Whammy's mother was presented with evidence supporting gays in the military, she had to scramble to find some other plausible-sounding excuse, and once she hit on that excuse, she could cling to it - and as a bonus she gets to feel superior to the dishonest lying gays - so that's double protection against actually thinking through her position.

ninja'd by Giant Speck who brings up another good point...she also doesn't have a flying clue how recruitment works, that's triple protection now.
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Re: DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby Whammy » Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:20 am UTC

Yeah, as much as I love my mom, she really seems to lack the basic understandings of, to me at least, scientific method and basic statistics.

But from what I can remember, it was something to the effect that since before DADT was implemented homosexuals weren't allowed to be in the military at all and were asked their orientation, the only way they could get in would of course be by lying about their orientation. Since they were in the military under false pretenses, and something about contracts and what not, their entire military service is a lie and so they should still be discharged. I guess a comparison would be like lying under oath?

podbaydoor wrote:The logic goes "Gays are icky ==> They should stay out of everything, ever." The rest is window dressing twisted into interesting shapes so the person can both dismiss contradictory evidence and continue to feel like a good person.

Whammy's mother was presented with evidence supporting gays in the military, she had to scramble to find some other plausible-sounding excuse, and once she hit on that excuse, she could cling to it - and as a bonus she gets to feel superior to the dishonest lying gays - so that's double protection against actually thinking through her position.

ninja'd by Giant Speck who brings up another good point...she also doesn't have a flying clue how recruitment works, that's triple protection now.


And this was posted while I was typing that first part XD. Is this a good time to point out my mom actually is inspiring some undergraduate research I want to do about the role of emotion and it's affect on the ability to interpret contradictory information?

Though like I said, she was saying all this in reference to people who joined BEFORE DADT was implemented so it was asked what your orientation was I believe...though I could be wrong on that point *shrug*.

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Re: DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby Sleeper » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:55 am UTC

She probably believes it's "lying by omission." Which is understandable, except that it's part of a hateful pattern of unfair discrimination.

I feel your pain, Whammy. Much of my family is similarly batty.

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Re: DADT to end one minute after midnight (Tuesday)

Postby Belial » Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:31 pm UTC

Whammy wrote:she still thinks anyone who was homosexual before DADT was implemented should still be expelled cause they lied on their recruitment and so are dishonorable and blah blah blah.


Clearly the correct answer is to say that you decided to be gay as soon as DADT was implemented. You were straight when you signed up.
addams wrote:A drunk neighbor is better than a sober Belial.


They/them


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