Actual (Association) Football Talk.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby charliepanayi » Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:49 pm UTC

Man Utd v Everton, blimey what on earth happened there. If Man City beat Wolves today (and Wolves are truly awful), next weekend's Man City v Man Utd game is going to be very interesting.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby yedidyak » Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:16 pm UTC

charliepanayi wrote:Man Utd v Everton, blimey what on earth happened there. If Man City beat Wolves today (and Wolves are truly awful), next weekend's Man City v Man Utd game is going to be very interesting.


Utd had one of their best attacking performances, and then one of their worst defending. Turns the Etihad derby into essentially a league final.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Dream » Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:18 pm UTC

Well, Wolves go down. It's always sad, but realistically, they're quite a step down from the competition. I still can't believe that the board fired McCarthy when they did. He has experience with relegation battles, and with winning them, and experience with the Championship, specifically with winning promotion. You'd have to have a much better plan than it turned out Wolves did to pass on that. One point from the last twenty-seven. I can't imagine McCarthy would have done any worse, but he might well have done better. And he'd have stayed with the club if they went down.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby raike » Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:47 pm UTC

Next weekend at Etihad will be interesting. But it's certainly a great day for us Man City fans!

What's going on with Liverpool, anyway? It was not as if they didn't have chances on goal, but they somehow missed all of them?
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby charliepanayi » Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:13 pm UTC

Liverpool only care about the FA Cup final now.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby raike » Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:00 pm UTC

charliepanayi wrote:Liverpool only care about the FA Cup final now.


Ah, I forgot about that. Well, I suppose another cup would shield Dalglish from criticism quite well, but I really can't see them taking Chelsea down, especially if this is how they're playing.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby charliepanayi » Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:04 pm UTC

Yeah but Liverpool have been playing atrociously for months now and have made it to the FA Cup final during that time. I think if Chelsea beat Barcelona they could be too busy daydreaming about the European Cup final and Liverpool could take advantage. But if Chelsea go out on Tuesday they could be more fired up for the FA Cup, and if it's that the case, I can't see Liverpool winning.

Van Persie wins PFA Player of the Year - hooray!
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Dream » Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:38 pm UTC

Good for him! He's clearly exhausted, he's given everything all season. I'm really glad he got it.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Amie » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:52 pm UTC

Yeah, RVP is great when he's actually onside :P Srsly though. Great player. Always respected him.

Also, Senes Erzik has been upgraded to first class in Turkish Airlines. What a big, fat surprise, that. This is why I will laugh my ass off if Barca win tomorrow and people will say "refs make mistakes all the time" yet again.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby ElWanderer » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:57 pm UTC

Dream wrote:Well, Wolves go down. It's always sad, but realistically, they're quite a step down from the competition. I still can't believe that the board fired McCarthy when they did. He has experience with relegation battles, and with winning them, and experience with the Championship, specifically with winning promotion. You'd have to have a much better plan than it turned out Wolves did to pass on that. One point from the last twenty-seven. I can't imagine McCarthy would have done any worse, but he might well have done better. And he'd have stayed with the club if they went down.

I'm gutted. Not so much that we're going down - if you'd told me we'd have three seasons in the Premier League I'd have been amazed - but more the meek way we are doing so. The other teams lower down seem to be fighting for all their worth to stay up, but we're not (or if we are, we're fighting each other!) Sacking McCarthy when we did was clearly a terrible move. I can see our first season back in the championship being a struggle unless we bring in the right manager and remake the team. It worries me our most expensive signings will probably leave, and for much less than we paid for them.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Rodion Raskolnikov » Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:19 pm UTC

Amie wrote:Also, Senes Erzik has been upgraded to first class in Turkish Airlines. What a big, fat surprise, that. This is why I will laugh my ass off if Barca win tomorrow and people will say "refs make mistakes all the time" yet again.


What exactly are you trying to imply?

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Dream » Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:48 pm UTC

It's just standard "refs are biased against us!!!" stuff. The head ref has done some Unicef work, and Barcelona pay Unicef for the logo on their shirt. And the head ref chose a fellow countryman for the Barca Chelsea match. That's the extent of it, and no, it doesn't make any sense.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Rodion Raskolnikov » Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:56 pm UTC

That's what it sounded like, but Amie's posts have tended to be fairly reasonable in this thread so I thought I would give her the benefit of the doubt.

If you (general you) really did believe in a UEFA-wide conspiracy to help Barcelona (or anyone else) win a competition, why would you have any interest in watching said competition? That's what I never understand when people spout nonsense about referees, or associations or UEFA being particularly disposed to favouring one club.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby ElWanderer » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:10 pm UTC

ElWanderer wrote:It worries me our most expensive signings will probably leave, and for much less than we paid for them.

Apologies for interrupting the Special One-esque discussion about the UNICEF conspiracy, and for quoting myself, but:

I was driving myself to monday night football yesterday when it was mentioned on the radio that the Wolves board had announced they won't let any of our top players leave. It sounded like cloud cuckoo land and I was lucky I didn't laugh myself into driving off the road. Seems the actual statement was not quite so cut and dried:
Jez Moxey wrote:I am not sure it is inevitable we will lose players. I think there will be interest in some of our players but we are in a very good financial position. We have got players under long-term contracts, we are under no pressure to sell. But let's get the season finished, get a manager in place, get that sorted out and then address the reshaping of our team that is required. It is an opportunity to try to get stronger.

I wish I had his optimism. Unless it's a ruse to stop people coming in with cut-price offers on the assumption we'll be having a fire sale...

I won't be able to watch tonight's big match (not Villa-Bolton) because we don't have Sky Sports. It's a conspiracy! I blame the Qatar Foundation.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Dream » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:26 pm UTC

Ouch, Moxey sounds like he's already decided against Connor, before the season is over. Probably justified, all things considered, but imagine that was happening to you, given a job by default because no one will touch it, and then held to your performance in spite of it being a practically impossible task. Then basically knowing you'll be fired, but not until someone else comes along.

And yeah, it seems wildly optimistic to think that Wolves will keep their best talent. There are quite a few there who'd likely prefer a second string slot in a premier league side to first team football in the Champoinship.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby ElWanderer » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:13 pm UTC

Dream wrote:Ouch, Moxey sounds like he's already decided against Connor

Yeah, I had to read the quote twice as I was surprised by the way he'd phrased that - it definitely does sound like he wants a new manager. I agree that we need one, but why hasn't he waited until the end of the season to say it? My worry there is who would now want to come in and do the job under Moxey - we've already had one farce of a manager hunt.

The harsh part is that having stepped up, Connor might not be able to step back down and go back to being coach or assistant manager; that could be it for him at the club after 13 seasons. I would feel very sorry for him if it works out that way.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Dream » Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:39 pm UTC

Rodion Raskolnikov wrote:That's what it sounded like, but Amie's posts have tended to be fairly reasonable in this thread so I thought I would give her the benefit of the doubt.

They have of course. I really enjoy reading them. But Aime's a big enough Chelsea fan to be a bit partial on this one. (I know, I feel the same way about Munster Rugby. Still the best team in Europe, and shut up everyone!) Chelsea have had a strange experience of refereeing against Barcelona, and I don't agree with the sentiment, but I totally understand it.

The harsh part is that having stepped up, Connor might not be able to step back down and go back to being coach or assistant manager; that could be it for him at the club after 13 seasons.

Yeah, that's harsh, but if he's been coaching, we have to accept that maybe there's a fair bit of responsibility on his shoulders about the form of the club this year. He maybe should have quietly changed or left under a properly appointed McCarthy successor. And is it just me, or does he strike anyone else as a bit nakedly emotional a lot of the time, like he doesn't have a media poker face yet, and is under immense strain. I always think he's on the verge of tears in interviews, which might just be his very quiet manner and the fact that he's usually talking about defeats.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Garm » Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:02 pm UTC

At least the Refs are beholden to someone vaguely official. Over here in the U.S. we've got a bunch of guys who like putting on yellow shirts and wandering around on a field with a whistle. MLS refs are uniformly a joke.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Dream » Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:22 pm UTC

Are they really that bad? Like worse than everyone always says refs are?
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Garm » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:27 pm UTC

I'd say that the best of the MLS refs are worse than the worst of the EPL refs since that's what I have the most exposure to. The best you can hope for is that the ref makes terrible calls that go against both sides. Some of the FIFA refs in the world cup seem like they came from the MLS tho'. :) On the bright side, people don't care enough about football here in the U.S. to bribe refs or match fix.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Dream » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:36 pm UTC

Welp, John Terry is a bloody idiot. Three fantastic goals so far, but man, what an idiot.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby sdkelso » Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:50 pm UTC

Heroes to the man. I'm in tears.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Garm » Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:52 pm UTC

Reading the reports looks like more controversy and more woodwork. Hopefully they'll see each other again in three years for the rubber match. :D
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby sdkelso » Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:54 pm UTC

BWAHAHAHA.

Even the anti-Chelsea commentators said we deserved to go through (imagine that?). Bloody perfect defensive display by ten heroes.

WHO THE FUCK ARE BARCELONA??????????

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby sdkelso » Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:57 pm UTC

Are people really going to say that we got lucky over two legs? We scored three, they scored two. I'm sorry, but THERE'S ONLY ONE TEAM IN EUROPE!!!!!!!

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby charliepanayi » Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:59 pm UTC

I'm off to be sick somewhere.

And er...actually there's one more team in Europe after tomorrow. Don't get carried away just yet, eh.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Amie » Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:59 pm UTC

We made it! :D We love you Chelsea, yes we do! I am happy today!

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby raike » Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:05 pm UTC

I'm no Chelsea fan, but I've to admit that they held off Barcelona quite well--it's hard to say that they didn't deserve that win. Apart from a bit of time-wasting, Cech was quite impressive, I felt.

Dream wrote:Welp, John Terry is a bloody idiot. Three fantastic goals so far, but man, what an idiot.

That was rather a 'what the hell' moment while watching. I believe that he said that he ran into the other player? It didn't quite look like that...
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Negated » Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:19 pm UTC

He definitely raised his knee into Alexis Sanchez's back for no apparent reason. It looked deliberate. I have no idea what he was thinking.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Dream » Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:21 pm UTC

Negated wrote: I have no idea what he was thinking.

He was trying for a dead leg. It was deliberate and premeditated. Cynical.

I don't believe that any team, anywhere, who parks 11 (or 10) in the box and does nothing else for 180 minutes deserves to win anything. It can happen, but it's just ugly, negative football, and I don't like it. Especially after the red card, when there might have been a total of five minutes of normal football in the rest of the match. It's the proof, I think of the negativity of the plan. Chelsea played so little football that it didn't even matter that they lost a man. It was just 18 odd inches of white shirt that wasn't standing in the goalmouth.

Only Ramires gave Chelsea a moment of real greatness. The rest was just weight of numbers and discipline.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby charliepanayi » Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:29 pm UTC

I don't know, my only grievance with Chelsea winning is I hate them and the number of pain in the backside players they have. They don't have an obligation to play attractive football. I certainly don't enjoy watching that sort of football, but then what I prefer doesn't matter much in the end.

*sighs* Time to pray Arsenal secure 3rd and Bayern or Real can do the business in the final :(
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Dream » Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:35 pm UTC

I dunno. I probably hate them a lot more now that they got so well rewarded for wrecking up the Chmpions League semi final.

I think the first thing to pray for is that we don't see a final with the same bullshit tactics. And if it's Real Madrid, that's what we'll get, unless chelsea are too ashamed to do it.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby charliepanayi » Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:39 pm UTC

Mourinho v Chelsea - whoever wins, we lose :D

Will be odd if Bayern get there, as the final is in Munich at their own stadium. Roma lost the European Cup final in 1984 playing at their own ground, I guess it can put extra pressure on.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Dream » Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:44 pm UTC

Well, my hope was for Bayern-Barca. Barca against home advantage, and a really swift, elegant attack. Could have been a fascinating match. Oh well.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby sdkelso » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:44 pm UTC

Dream on, Dream.

http://www.football365.com/chelsea/7700 ... er-ratings --Anyone here who disagrees?

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby raike » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:56 pm UTC

sdkelso wrote:Dream on, Dream.

http://www.football365.com/chelsea/7700 ... er-ratings --Anyone here who disagrees?


I cannot disagree with the rationales for Barcelona's players, but I feel that the Chelsea players' ratings are a tad inflated at times and Barcelona's are a bit depressed... For instance, Drogba gets an 8? Cahill merits a 5? And for Barcelona, only giving Iniesta a 7 and Xavi a 6?
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Dream » Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:06 pm UTC

sdkelso wrote:http://www.football365.com/chelsea/7700350/Barcelona-v-Chelsea-player-ratings --Anyone here who disagrees?

Any player that spends most of a match hatching isn't palying good football. So high ratings for all of Chelsea are just wishful thinking.

But seriously, 8 for Torres? The only thing he did besides his goal was give Alves the space to get crosses in, that Drogba hadn't. Putting him on put a big hole in the chelsea defence, and he had one single good break. That's an 8 now? Drogba was an 8, fantastic all match, but a few errors. Huge effort to get back the few times Chelsea moved up the pitch. Anyone saying Torres was up to that standard because he beat someone for pace and finished very well is totally exaggerating.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby sdkelso » Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:10 pm UTC

Drogba's defending was terrific! I agree on Cahill, though, but he had a brilliant game in the first leg.

I disagree with you on Barca's ratings though. Seriously, listen to this lot going on about how good Barca are-we gave them the ball for a good 90% of the game and they only managed two goals (one of which was scored when we had only ten men on the pitch). Unlucky, huh Dream?

Edit: Dream, good call on Torres. Happy as hell for him though.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Negated » Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:39 pm UTC

Di Matteo might have instructed Torres to do exactly that, since Barca were pouring forward and leaving large gaps at the back. If he was defending Dani Alves, he would not be in position to break through the center and score.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Dream » Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:52 pm UTC

sdkelso wrote:Seriously, listen to this lot going on about how good Barca are-we gave them the ball for a good 90% of the game and they only managed two goals

They scored those goals thought a very literal wall of white shirts, with 11 (or 10) players standing in their way at all times. Does that really sound like the achievement of a poor team?

Negated wrote:If he was defending Dani Alves, he would not be in position to break through the center and score.

I meant that when he was one on one with Alves, Alves beat him easily and crossed. He was especially lucky that the "goal" that was offside was actually offside, because it was him who was turned to get he cross in.
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