Actual (Association) Football Talk.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Dream » Mon May 14, 2012 10:32 am UTC

charliepanayi wrote:Joey Barton should probably steer clear of Old Trafford for a while.

No fear of that, he won't be allowed in a staduim of any kind for a while.

raike wrote:Take that United fans!

Yep, aside fro mthe immense drama of the day, the 20th title for Man United would not have been a big deal. I was very glad City won it. And I liked that with Barton ensuring their best possible chance of success, the main opponent city had to beat was their own nerves. It was fitting that after throwing away a commanding lead in the table a few months ago, they had to come from behind to take the title.

And I'm delighted for Arsenal, even though they gave the fans nearly as much stress as City did!
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby M.C. » Mon May 14, 2012 2:18 pm UTC

I can't help but feel very disappointed for Bolton; especially given the circumstances of their defeat. Hoping they won't do a Leeds, and will be back in the Premier League soon.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby BeerBottle » Mon May 14, 2012 2:33 pm UTC

Well I don't think this thread has a spurs fan so I'll volunteer...

First comment is - that was the best premier league season ever. Amazing drama going right down to the wire at top and bottom. I'm kinda glad Man C won but worried about the growing dominance of foreign financiers.

Of course the final weekend was a disappointment for spurs, and you could argue the season as a whole. Familiar failings came back to haunt us - yet another FA cup semi final defeat (lost our last 6 in a row now...). And after spending so long in 3rd place to lose it to Ar*enal is tragic. 17 years of finishing behind that other lot is hard to bear, but in a way it's worse when we're so close, and we can look back on ridiculous matches like losing at home to Norwich or to QPR or the failure to beat Aston Villa last week as costing us the bragging rights in North London. Much was made of the distraction of Arry's link with England. It hurts to think that Spur's fall from grace might originally have been precipitated by John Terry's (alleged) racist comments all those months ago which led to Capello quitting.... Even harder to swallow was Spurs' curse of the last day rearing its head again, this time it wasn't Spurs choking on their lasagne like in 2006, but WBA fielding by far the worst premier league goalie of all time against Ar*enal that did for us. To watch his 'punch' on that third goal you'd think he had a bet on....

But look on the bright side, a few years ago we were mid table also rans, we're now becoming established at the right end of the table. For most of those 17 years we were miles off the pace, but Spurs and Arsenal are now equal. Much will rest on the summer's transfers. Will we be able to keep our best players. Will Ar*enal lose RVP? I have a feeling that we're on the way up and Ar*enal are on the way down, but time will tell.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby charliepanayi » Mon May 14, 2012 7:26 pm UTC

Good luck holding on to your best players if Chelsea win on Saturday and you're stuck in the Europa League. Though I still want Bayern to win.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby BeerBottle » Mon May 14, 2012 8:18 pm UTC

Well I hope we can hold on to Bale, Modrich, vdV etc even if we do end up in the Europa. We did last year after all. Levy is a pretty determined operator. Remember we haven't sold a top player since Berbatov/Keane in 2008. If I were you I'd be more worried about RVP leaving, even though you got 3rd place. Spurs and Arsenal are both clearly a distance behind Man U/C, and the top European clubs. RVP has plenty of options, and Arsenal are more dependent on him than Spurs are on any one player, the consequences of him leaving could be quite serious. Anyway as I said, time will tell.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Dream » Mon May 14, 2012 8:28 pm UTC

Had I to call it, I'd say that van Persie will be at Arsenal for another season. They'll offer him a crack at the Champions League and Premier League with a team rebuilt around him, and some key positions refilled with bought in talent. Contrast that with the slight uncertainty of going to another club, one that he might or might not bed into comfortably, and I think he'll want to compete in the Champions League he just qualified for.

However. There's the issue of money. I think Arsenal have to spend more but not just in the transfer market. I actually really like their low spending ways there. They have to up their wages, to compete with the mega-spending top clubs, and to allow van Persie to earn a more competetive wage without breaking their wage structure. So if they lift everyone up a good bit, I think they can keep him. Then, unless they win something big, he'll move on this time next year.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby charliepanayi » Mon May 14, 2012 8:59 pm UTC

All I know is finishing above Spurs 17 years running (especially when we were looking at a 13 point gap at the end of February) cheers me up somewhat. I looked at a BBC website article from August last year where various BBC pundits gave their predictions. Nobody put us higher than fourth, and many didn't put us in the top four at all. One person said Liverpool would win the title!

The trouble with winning trophies these days is how much harder it's become. The league has only been won by Man Utd or a side bankrolled by a wealthy owner for the last seven years. The European Cup similarly is very difficult to win. That just leaves the FA Cup (which would be nice to win) and the League Cup (not really seen as that important these days, even if we had won it last year I doubt that would stop the press berating us for lack of success). And I don't think a League Cup alone would make Van Persie change his mind. I hope we can keep him, but the season has just ended and I'll worry about it later.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Garm » Mon May 14, 2012 9:15 pm UTC

Dream wrote:Had I to call it, I'd say that van Persie will be at Arsenal for another season. They'll offer him a crack at the Champions League and Premier League with a team rebuilt around him, and some key positions refilled with bought in talent. Contrast that with the slight uncertainty of going to another club, one that he might or might not bed into comfortably, and I think he'll want to compete in the Champions League he just qualified for.

However. There's the issue of money. I think Arsenal have to spend more but not just in the transfer market. I actually really like their low spending ways there. They have to up their wages, to compete with the mega-spending top clubs, and to allow van Persie to earn a more competetive wage without breaking their wage structure. So if they lift everyone up a good bit, I think they can keep him. Then, unless they win something big, he'll move on this time next year.


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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Dream » Mon May 14, 2012 9:39 pm UTC

Garm wrote:Nuggets, Avalanche, Rapids...

I don't get it.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby charliepanayi » Mon May 14, 2012 9:47 pm UTC

Dream wrote:
Garm wrote:Nuggets, Avalanche, Rapids...

I don't get it.


Maybe they're teams in American sports that are hampered by not being able to pay high enough wages or something.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby raike » Mon May 14, 2012 9:55 pm UTC

BeerBottle wrote:First comment is - that was the best premier league season ever. Amazing drama going right down to the wire at top and bottom. I'm kinda glad Man C won but worried about the growing dominance of foreign financiers.


Even as a city fan, I've to admit that they'd probably not have been anywhere past mid-table without the 2008 takeover and cash influx. Hopefully this level of performance and caliber of player are sustainable past the next few years (I still remember when City was relegated...)!
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby ElWanderer » Tue May 15, 2012 9:45 am UTC

charliepanayi wrote:I looked at a BBC website article from August last year where various BBC pundits gave their predictions... One person said Liverpool would win the title!

Only one? Phil McNulty, Alan Hansen and Mark Lawrenson all like to play the "this year Liverpool will do well, even though I said that last year and was totally wrong" card. Maybe they've agreed to take it turns to predict a Liverpool championship win.

That poor West Brom keeper... wow. I couldn't believe what I was seeing when I watched Match of the Day - I'd heard the goals were soft, but it was so much worse than I was expecting.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Dream » Tue May 15, 2012 11:32 am UTC

ElWanderer wrote:That poor West Brom keeper... wow. I couldn't believe what I was seeing when I watched Match of the Day - I'd heard the goals were soft, but it was so much worse than I was expecting.

It's sad, but he basically bottled it under pressure. You know, the kind of "oh fuck, the ball's coming to ME! WHADDOIDO?!?" stuff that everyone remembers from being a kid, or being very new at something. Both mistakes (I only thought two were shockers, the middle goal was a decent shot that went past his fingertips) were when he already made the right choice, beat everyone to the ball, and just had to follow through with what he knew was the right plan. Then he second guessed himself. Then disaster. I felt very bad for him. But then I thought, Champions League next year. I don't feel so bad now...
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby ElWanderer » Tue May 15, 2012 12:00 pm UTC

Dream wrote:
ElWanderer wrote:That poor West Brom keeper... wow. I couldn't believe what I was seeing when I watched Match of the Day - I'd heard the goals were soft, but it was so much worse than I was expecting.

It's sad, but he basically bottled it under pressure. You know, the kind of "oh fuck, the ball's coming to ME! WHADDOIDO?!?" stuff that everyone remembers from being a kid, or being very new at something. Both mistakes (I only thought two were shockers, the middle goal was a decent shot that went past his fingertips) were when he already made the right choice, beat everyone to the ball, and just had to follow through with what he knew was the right plan. Then he second guessed himself. Then disaster. I felt very bad for him. But then I thought, Champions League next year. I don't feel so bad now...

Aye, the second goal wasn't great keeping, but it wasn't on a par with the two shockers. With the third goal, he seemed to misjudge the flight and jumped into his own defender which put him off - perhaps he meant to catch it, he certainly wasn't lined up right to punch it out.

I've played in goal rather more than I'd have liked, and have to admit it's easy to make stupid mistakes (especially if you're not a proper keeper!) That's why I always lamp the ball as hard as possible if it's not obvious that I can pick it up cleanly - better to have team mates asking why I didn't pick it up than give away a goal like the first Arsenal one.

Reminds me of a Wolves-West Brom match quite a few seasons back, where the West Brom keeper fluffed his first kick from a back pass and seemed to be rattled. All through the rest of the game, whenever the ball was passed back to him both Wolves strikers would peel off and charge straight at him, which the crowd loved.

So Alex McLeish is out of a job, and West Brom will need a new manager... :idea:
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Garm » Tue May 15, 2012 3:48 pm UTC

Dream wrote:
Garm wrote:Nuggets, Avalanche, Rapids...

I don't get it.


Sorry, a little too obtuse. I'd forgotten that Stan Kronke also owns the Rams and the Mammoth (professional indoor Lacrosse team... because... why the fuck not?). He also owns the controlling stake in the Gunners. All the teams that mentioned sort of suck. The Nuggets make it to the playoffs every year but it's basketball and so basically everyone makes it to the playoffs. The Avalanche miss the playoffs most years which is a minor feat in hockey. The Rapids somehow won the MLS cup two years ago (which was awesome) but fired that coach and are now involved with bringing in a lot of South American has-beens (with the exception of Martin Rivero who is a never-was in his 20s) on the cheap.

In my experience, Kronke's teams are underfunded and mismanaged. The front office of all three of the teams that I'm familiar with (those that I mentioned) is generally a mess (especially the Rapids). I don't think they do a particularly good job in developing youth talent (last year one of the young guns from the Avs left because of disagreements with the coach). The Rams won two or three games out of sixteen last year. Point being that you shouldn't be hoping for a big infusion of cash into Arsenal. I hope Kronke proves me wrong but I'm not optimistic. And on the bright side, all the teams I've mentioned are doing better than the Colorado Rockies. :D
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Dream » Tue May 15, 2012 4:24 pm UTC

Garm wrote:Point being that you shouldn't be hoping for a big infusion of cash into Arsenal.


Ah, I see. Arsenal actually runs in the black from year to year, one of the few Premier League clubs to do so. Its only debt is for the Emirates Stadium, which is offset against naming rights, shirt sponsorship and ticket sales. When they go to the transfer market, they tend to break even or spend little. It won't need a middle eastern sugar daddy (like a certain very recent title winner) if all it wants to do is pay everyone a bit better and buy a few key players.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Garm » Tue May 15, 2012 4:59 pm UTC

Dream wrote:
Garm wrote:Point being that you shouldn't be hoping for a big infusion of cash into Arsenal.


Ah, I see. Arsenal actually runs in the black from year to year, one of the few Premier League clubs to do so. Its only debt is for the Emirates Stadium, which is offset against naming rights, shirt sponsorship and ticket sales. When they go to the transfer market, they tend to break even or spend little. It won't need a middle eastern sugar daddy (like a certain very recent title winner) if all it wants to do is pay everyone a bit better and buy a few key players.


That's good to know. Just keep Kronke's fingers off of Arsenal's front office and you'll be okay (if you hear they're hiring a guy named Jeff Plush arranged for him to be mugged before he makes it to the stadium). I think most of the Denver teams run in the black if you discount all the shady accounting practices sports teams use but the money isn't used for much, it seems.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby charliepanayi » Wed May 16, 2012 12:27 pm UTC

It's the England Euro 2012 squad!

Goalkeepers: Joe Hart (Man City), Rob Green (West Ham), John Ruddy (Norwich)

Defenders: Glen Johnson (Liverpool), Phil Jones (Man United), John Terry (Chelsea), Joleon Lescott (Man City), Gary Cahill (Chelsea), Ashley Cole (Chelsea), Leighton Baines (Everton)

Midfielders: Theo Walcott (Arsenal), Stewart Downing (Liverpool), Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain (Arsenal), Steven Gerrard (Liverpool), Gareth Barry (Man City), Frank Lampard (Chelsea), Scott Parker (Tottenham), Ashley Young (Man United), James Milner (Man City)

Forwards: Wayne Rooney (Man United), Danny Welbeck (Man United), Andy Carroll (Liverpool), Jermain Defoe (Tottenham)

Standby players: Jack Butland (Birmingham City), Phil Jagielka (Everton), Jordan Henderson (Liverpool), Adam Johnson (Manchester City), Daniel Sturridge (Chelsea).

God knows what Carroll and Downing are doing there.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby ElWanderer » Wed May 16, 2012 1:44 pm UTC

charliepanayi wrote:It's the England Euro 2012 squad!
Spoiler:
Goalkeepers: Joe Hart (Man City), Rob Green (West Ham), John Ruddy (Norwich)

Defenders: Glen Johnson (Liverpool), Phil Jones (Man United), John Terry (Chelsea), Joleon Lescott (Man City), Gary Cahill (Chelsea), Ashley Cole (Chelsea), Leighton Baines (Everton)

Midfielders: Theo Walcott (Arsenal), Stewart Downing (Liverpool), Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain (Arsenal), Steven Gerrard (Liverpool), Gareth Barry (Man City), Frank Lampard (Chelsea), Scott Parker (Tottenham), Ashley Young (Man United), James Milner (Man City)

Forwards: Wayne Rooney (Man United), Danny Welbeck (Man United), Andy Carroll (Liverpool), Jermain Defoe (Tottenham)

Standby players: Jack Butland (Birmingham City), Phil Jagielka (Everton), Jordan Henderson (Liverpool), Adam Johnson (Manchester City), Daniel Sturridge (Chelsea).

God knows what Carroll and Downing are doing there.

Carroll has been playing well recently, at least. Or rather, he was the only Liverpool player that came out of the FA Cup Final with reputation improved. Downing did seem to pick up when he came on as well, after having played total poo for an hour. Of course, if I'm going by just that one match, Gerrard probably shouldn't be captain!

Pity Crouch has missed out. Part of the fun of previous tournaments was texting my wife to say there had been a Crouch goal, with my old phone whose predictive text inexplicably came up with "crotch" instead of "crouch".

I'm glad he's picked Ox-eye-daisy-chain, as will be shirt manufacturers who charge by the letter.

Interesting he's gone for 7 defenders and 9 midfielders, rather than 8 of each. I wonder who his first choice back four is, and if they'll all be fit.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Dream » Wed May 16, 2012 2:50 pm UTC

Pity John Terry got the call up. But maybe he'll be dropped after his trial, who knows? On that note, leaving out Ferdinand on grounds of being old, slow and injury prone is a good idea.

I agree that 7 defenders is a bit strange. Even a single injury will cause selection headaches.

EDIT: Dalglish is out of Anfield. they'e basically fired everyone now. I wonder who they're planning on hiring? I wonder do they even have a plan?
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby ElWanderer » Wed May 16, 2012 3:49 pm UTC

Apparently he went for Phil Jones as he can play right-back as well as centre-back, so perhaps that means we can get away with one defender fewer. If we're lucky. Hmmm.

Blimey, Dalglish has left Liverpool. I know there had been pundit suggestions there could be a parting of the ways, but for me that was unexpected.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby majikthise » Wed May 16, 2012 5:23 pm UTC

I was still hoping to see Holt in the squad... ah well!
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Jesse » Wed May 16, 2012 7:29 pm UTC

Downing has zero goals and zero assists this season right? Can't imagine why he would have been picked.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Garm » Wed May 16, 2012 7:55 pm UTC

Jesse wrote:Downing has zero goals and zero assists this season right? Can't imagine why he would have been picked.


He's got a nice haircut?
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Amie » Wed May 16, 2012 7:59 pm UTC

Saw some picture doing the rounds that showed some "fan" claiming Tevez basically forced her to hand the 'RIP Fergie' sign over to him. This is bothering me. If anyone finds a citation for this (that is NOT from The Sun or The Daily Mail), please let me know.

Also, yay possibility of goal line technology next season! Hopefully they actually DO implement it this time.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Dream » Thu May 17, 2012 9:22 pm UTC

Looks like it might be Roberto Martinez for Liverpool. I had hoped he'd stay with Wigan for a season or two and get them into a solid mid-table situation. But he might well be right for Anfield. They need someone with a solid vision for how to play football, and he's definitely that.

Amie wrote: This is bothering me.

Why? It's just a slightly tasteless gloat. There's nothing inherently offensive about it at all, just a bit inappropriate because of Ferguson's age. He's apologised and that's that.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby charliepanayi » Sat May 19, 2012 9:06 am UTC

Only one thing to say at the moment - come on Bayern! :(
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby raike » Sat May 19, 2012 9:37 pm UTC

Huh, I guess Tottenham aren't going to be in the Champions League next year after all.
Good show by Drogba and Cech, I've to say. It is a bit of a shame, as Bayern did dominate before ET, especially in terms of shots and possession.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby charliepanayi » Sat May 19, 2012 9:38 pm UTC

I'm off to be sick somewhere. What a joke.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Amie » Sat May 19, 2012 10:40 pm UTC

Hope you get well soon then.

I'm elated, proud, overjoyed. I've never been happier to sport my club's jersey, to have shouted its praises in glee and in anticipation... I'm just... so happy... I'm in tears. I've been waiting for this for over a decade and now I've been alive to witness this moment... I'm... just so honoured and proud.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby TheGrammarBolshevik » Sun May 20, 2012 2:36 pm UTC

In the words of St. Thomas Aquinas,

Fuck yeah.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby lynx » Thu May 24, 2012 7:17 am UTC

Football season is over :(

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby charliepanayi » Thu May 24, 2012 9:19 am UTC

There's stilll Euro 2012 to come and wash out the sour taste of last weekend!
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Dream » Thu May 24, 2012 12:39 pm UTC

And the Joey Barton Circus Sideshow rolls on! 12 matches! Still not enough for me, I'd like to have seen a full season, but of course the apologists are already out in force, saying he's been stiched up. Ignoring those fools, we can now hope that QPR give him the boot. Being civilised human beings, we won't hope that he gets the boot repeatedly while unconscious and defenceless on the ground. (We'll just imagine it...)
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby charliepanayi » Thu May 24, 2012 1:00 pm UTC

I'm lobbying for Arjen Robben to be banned for an entire season.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby BeerBottle » Thu May 24, 2012 3:12 pm UTC

+1 to that if we can include Márton Fülöp too.

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charliepanayi
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby charliepanayi » Thu May 24, 2012 7:12 pm UTC

BeerBottle wrote:+1 to that if we can include Márton Fülöp too.


On the contrary, he deserves a medal :D
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Dream » Thu May 24, 2012 8:29 pm UTC

charliepanayi wrote:I'm lobbying for Arjen Robben to be banned for an entire season.

What really needs doing is finding the djinn that makes di Matteo's opponents miss the goal. That power is wasted on football, and needs to be given to political prisoners facing firing squads.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby lynx » Wed May 30, 2012 6:06 am UTC

charliepanayi wrote:There's stilll Euro 2012 to come and wash out the sour taste of last weekend!

How can you wash away a sour taste with the taste of crashing out on penalties in the quarter finals?
Unfortunate though it may be, were I a betting man I'd put at least a few quid on England going out at the first sight of a decent footballing team :cry:

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby charliepanayi » Wed May 30, 2012 8:15 am UTC

lynx wrote:
charliepanayi wrote:There's stilll Euro 2012 to come and wash out the sour taste of last weekend!

How can you wash away a sour taste with the taste of crashing out on penalties in the quarter finals?
Unfortunate though it may be, were I a betting man I'd put at least a few quid on England going out at the first sight of a decent footballing team :cry:


I don't support England, I see international football as a chance to relax and just enjoy it without the stress of supporting anyone, I get enough of that during the domestic season. Plus Cyprus will never qualify for anything anyway :(
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