Actual (Association) Football Talk.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby charliepanayi » Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:04 pm UTC

Heartbreak for Ivory Coast. So now we have:

Brazil v Chile
Colombia v Uruguay

Netherlands v Mexico
Costa Rica v Greece

It's opening up nicely for the Dutch that's for sure.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Xenomortis » Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:11 pm UTC

Heisenberg wrote:Sure, but this is using a part of your body that should not be used in the course of a match.

Was this really worse than Zidane just because it involved teeth?

Or how about this moment (1:28) from the previous world cup final?
Image

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Diadem » Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:31 pm UTC

At first I thought that penalty was a blunder of the referee, but looking at the super slomo, there is clear contact. Hard to say if it was intentional or not, but it did hinder the Greek player. Probably a correct penalty. Heartwrenching to watch though either way. Man, I felt bad for Ivory Coast. To be completely honest though neither team has any business being in the round of 16.

As for Suarez. I hope he gets banned for the rest of the tournament.

Italy really got screwed. Forced to play 10 vs 11 when it should have been 11 vs 10. It seems very likely that they would have survived with better refereeing.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Rodion Raskolnikov » Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:38 pm UTC

Xenomortis wrote:
Heisenberg wrote:Assault. Lock him up.

Has that actually ever happened to a footballer for on-pitch behaviour?
I've seen far worse on the pitch not go hugely punished.


Duncan Ferguson got a sent to prison for headbutting an opponent during a game back in the 90s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FanasvLaW8k&feature=kp

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby ahammel » Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:53 am UTC

Diego Lugano wrote:What did you see? You saw this, really? You need to show me because I didn't see anything[...]Did you see it today or did you see what happened in other years? You couldn't have seen it today because nothing happened.
Luis Suárez wrote: It was just the two of us inside the area and he bumped into me with his shoulder.[...]There are things that happen on the pitch and you should not make such a big deal out of them.
Denial springs eternal in the Uruguayan camp.

Michel D'Hooghe, member of FIFA's executive committee wrote:I think that biting is not compatible with normal football practice.
Spoiler:
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Wonderbolt » Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:35 am UTC

ahammel wrote:
Michel D'Hooghe, member of FIFA's executive committee wrote:I think that biting is not compatible with normal football practice.
Spoiler:
Image

On the other hand, he's done that three times now, and he's still playing football.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Diadem » Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:40 am UTC

Xenomortis wrote:
Heisenberg wrote:Sure, but this is using a part of your body that should not be used in the course of a match.

Was this really worse than Zidane just because it involved teeth?

Or how about this moment (1:28) from the previous world cup final?

Well, Zidane also got a 3 match suspension for his headbutt. Add to that that Suarez's attack was completely unprovoked, that Suarez has a much longer history of giving trouble, and that he escaped consequences during the match itself, and I'd say a suspension for the rest of the tournament (which is at most 4 matches) is entirely fair.

I couldn't find anything about what disciplinary measures were taken against Nigel de Jong, but his kick certainly should have been followed by a suspension as well.

Honestly I just wish we'd go to video refereeing. Make sure every decision is fair. As an added bonus we can finally get rid of all the theatrics on the field. Also, talking back or openly complaining to or about the referee should be a yellow card, and players who dive should be send off, banned for life, and then taken out back and shot.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby charliepanayi » Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:19 am UTC

Diadem wrote:At first I thought that penalty was a blunder of the referee, but looking at the super slomo, there is clear contact. Hard to say if it was intentional or not, but it did hinder the Greek player. Probably a correct penalty. Heartwrenching to watch though either way. Man, I felt bad for Ivory Coast. To be completely honest though neither team has any business being in the round of 16.

As for Suarez. I hope he gets banned for the rest of the tournament.

Italy really got screwed. Forced to play 10 vs 11 when it should have been 11 vs 10. It seems very likely that they would have survived with better refereeing.


Italy's red card was deserved. And they would have survived if they'd actually tried to take the game to Uruguay a bit more rather than sitting back too much, even before the red card. Or if they hadn't been so bad against Costa Rica. They've been very poor against Costa Rica and Uruguay and I don't think they can complain too much. And Greece do have business being in the second round in that they qualified from their group (and they were the better side last night).
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby roband » Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:52 am UTC

Liverpool fan here, but I've got to believe I'd be saying the same things even if it wasn't one of our players...

It's a bite. Definitely. Has no place on the field. It's assault.

But he'll do anything to win. They were at 0-0 and he was looking for a reaction. I don't think he's "lost his mind" like some people think. He hasn't "seen red". He's desperate to win and will do anything to try and gain an advantage.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby charliepanayi » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:12 am UTC

roband wrote:Liverpool fan here, but I've got to believe I'd be saying the same things even if it wasn't one of our players...

It's a bite. Definitely. Has no place on the field. It's assault.

But he'll do anything to win. They were at 0-0 and he was looking for a reaction. I don't think he's "lost his mind" like some people think. He hasn't "seen red". He's desperate to win and will do anything to try and gain an advantage.


Perhaps, but couldn't he have just tried something simple then and dived to try and a penalty or something?
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby roband » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:14 am UTC

He's known for diving, right? He spent an entire season getting no decisions in the Premiership because of it. He had to make the player react in an obvious way.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Diadem » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:49 am UTC

charliepanayi wrote:
Diadem wrote:At first I thought that penalty was a blunder of the referee, but looking at the super slomo, there is clear contact. Hard to say if it was intentional or not, but it did hinder the Greek player. Probably a correct penalty. Heartwrenching to watch though either way. Man, I felt bad for Ivory Coast. To be completely honest though neither team has any business being in the round of 16.

As for Suarez. I hope he gets banned for the rest of the tournament.

Italy really got screwed. Forced to play 10 vs 11 when it should have been 11 vs 10. It seems very likely that they would have survived with better refereeing.


Italy's red card was deserved.

Really? I didn't watch the match (was driving at the time) but the commentators on the radio seemed pretty convinced it wasn't deserved. Guess I'm going to have to watch a replay tonight.

charliepanayi wrote:And they would have survived if they'd actually tried to take the game to Uruguay a bit more rather than sitting back too much, even before the red card. Or if they hadn't been so bad against Costa Rica. They've been very poor against Costa Rica and Uruguay and I don't think they can complain too much. And Greece do have business being in the second round in that they qualified from their group (and they were the better side last night).

Oh, I don't disagree that Italy's performance overall has been very poor, and that their poor play is the main reason they got knocked out. But even underperforming teams deserve correct referee decisions. Suarez should have been send off, and it seems at least plausible that this would have affected the outcome of the game.

And Greece qualified, and qualified fairly. No denying that. But they played much worse than some of the teams that got knocked out, and only survived because their opponents were even more terrible. I'm pretty sure that for example Australia (who finished last with 0 points) would have obliterated Greece, had they played each other. Unless Greece drastically improves, they'll be knocked out without a chance. That's what I meant when I said they have no business in the round of 16.

Of course half the fun of a world championship is watching upsets and unexpected results. Greece is certainly entertaining. I'll be routing for them against Costa Rica (but not against Netherlands, should both teams survive the next round :) ).
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby roband » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:51 am UTC

It was definitely a red for Italy.

From the initial angle, it looked like nothing. From the second angle, it looked like a yellow. From the third angle, it was a definite red.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Diadem » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:53 am UTC

By the way: I saw a clip somewhere online, an animated gif, of a player taking his opponent's arm, hitting himself in the face with it, and then diving (earning simultaneous titles for most creative and most unsportsmanlike player). The caption claimed that happened during this world cup. I can't find anything about it though. Does anyone know where this is from, and what came of it?
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby roband » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:54 am UTC

I've seen a similar thing - it's rather old, as far as I know.

edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHsg6Bb02L4

that one? Clearly not from this WC

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby ahammel » Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:50 pm UTC

The challenge for Italy's red looked very, very dangerous. Balotelli could have been more severely punished for the flying karate kick as well. They can have no complaints. They didn't lose because of the bite, they lost because they didn't play well. From the post-match comments, it sounds like Buffon knew it, too.

I'm no Italy fan, but I do feel bad for Gigi and Pirlo. They're both absolutely wonderful players, and that's a hard way to end your World Cup career.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby roband » Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:35 pm UTC

I think the Balotelli yellow was harsh. The other player ducked, ffs. Do we want to see players ducking under high balls, so other players physically CAN'T get up to challenge for them?

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Negated » Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:07 pm UTC

Today's games feel so uneventful after yesterday's series of maddening drama.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby roband » Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:36 pm UTC

France drawing is annoying - messed up a bet of mine.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby PolakoVoador » Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:08 am UTC

roband wrote:France drawing is annoying - messed up a bet of mine.


Lots of things messed up my bets today. I'm doing very poorly :/

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Adacore » Thu Jun 26, 2014 1:30 am UTC

roband wrote:France drawing is annoying - messed up a bet of mine.

Given I drew Ecuador in the sweepstake, it was certainly not the ideal result.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby roband » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:17 am UTC

PolakoVoador wrote:
roband wrote:France drawing is annoying - messed up a bet of mine.


Lots of things messed up my bets today. I'm doing very poorly :/

I've done better in this World Cup than any competition ever.

That said, I'm back down to my starting stake (not including some bets on tonight, the first 4 round-of-16 games and 2 doubles on WinningTeam/GoldenBootWinner).

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Wonderbolt » Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:24 am UTC

Some Swedes apparently won ~1500 EUR for betting Suarez would bite someone again this WC.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby roband » Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:47 am UTC

I read that 175 different people made that bet.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Heisenberg » Thu Jun 26, 2014 1:44 pm UTC

Those bite marks which I saw on live TV? Probably photoshopped, according to Uruguay.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby ahammel » Thu Jun 26, 2014 1:46 pm UTC

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Diadem » Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:03 pm UTC

I find the denial by Suarez and other Uruguayans much worse than the actual incident.

Passions can run high in sports, and I don't think we should be too harsh on people who go a bit too far. He should get a ban of several matches, of course, it's a serious foul. But I don't think necessarily think worse of him as a person, or player, for what he did.

But the Uruguayan response is despicable. They are not even pretending to be interested in fair play anymore.

I'm almost to the point where I'd wish they'd just ban Uruguay from the tournament entirely.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby roband » Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:11 pm UTC

Banned for 9 international matches and 4 months overall.

As a Liverpool fan... fuck.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby ahammel » Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:12 pm UTC

roband wrote:Banned for 9 international matches and 4 months overall.

As a Liverpool fan... fuck.

Should have sold him to Barca before the WC.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby roband » Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:14 pm UTC

No way. This puts his price UP.

Just think, if Uruguay get knocked out in the next round, that's 8 games he can't play in Internationals for. That's more than a whole season. That's a whole season where the player can't go and get injured whilst training/playing for his country. Sounds almost lucrative to me.

He won't be sold in the summer though, but January is a possibility.

That said, I'd keep him.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Diadem » Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:14 pm UTC

Was just going to post that: Luis Suárez suspended for nine matches and banned for four months

That's a lot harsher than I expected. Probably because it was his 3rd time. Especially the 4 month ban will hit home, because that affects his Liverpool matches as well. The 9 match ban is only for international games, and after this world cup the next few will probably be relatively unimportant qualifiers anyway. But the 4 month ban affects everything. So he's out for Liverpool for the first few months of the competition, that's gotta hurt.

edit:

roband wrote:No way. This puts his price UP.

Just think, if Uruguay get knocked out in the next round, that's 8 games he can't play in Internationals for. That's more than a whole season. That's a whole season where the player can't go and get injured whilst training/playing for his country. Sounds almost lucrative to me.

Clubs won't care about his ban from international football, true. They might even like it. But the 4 month ban affects his club games as well. That in itself is not a big issue for potential buyers. But think of the implications?

But who is going to buy such an unreliable player? He has now bitten someone 3 times, and has expressed no remorse. Do you think it's going to remain at 3 times? And if he bites someone again, how long is his next suspension going to be? Probably a lot longer than 4 months. Maybe he has learned his lesson, but are you going to gamble tens of millions on it? I know I wouldn't.
Last edited by Diadem on Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:20 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby roband » Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:16 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:that's gotta hurt.

Yep.

Hope there's some kinda appeal process, but I can't see it being reduced. Especially now he's denied it in the press.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby ahammel » Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:18 pm UTC

roband wrote:
Diadem wrote:that's gotta hurt.

Yep.

Hope there's some kinda appeal process, but I can't see it being reduced. Especially now he's denied it in the press.

Anything longer than 3 matches is subject to appeal.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Cathode Ray Sunshine » Thu Jun 26, 2014 3:04 pm UTC

Hahahahahaha fuck Suárez.

Diadem wrote:I find the denial by Suarez and other Uruguayans much worse than the actual incident.


Ugh, yes. The captain, Godín, and the manager were all excusing his behavior as if it was no big deal. Reminded me of the parents of a bratty kid who refuse to accept the child's actions. Maybe in private they do criticize him and they just want to give the impression that they're a united team, but they just look so classless. Go Colombia!

Diadem wrote:But who is going to buy such an unreliable player? He has now bitten someone 3 times, and has expressed no remorse. Do you think it's going to remain at 3 times? And if he bites someone again, how long is his next suspension going to be? Probably a lot longer than 4 months. Maybe he has learned his lesson, but are you going to gamble tens of millions on it? I know I wouldn't.


As long as he keeps scoring, everyone will be interested in him. Yes, he's a nutcase, but if sports have taught me something is that as long as you're good (and I hate to say it, but he is great), people, like managers and fans, will undoubtedly put up with your metric tonne bullshit.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby roband » Thu Jun 26, 2014 3:12 pm UTC

Cathode Ray Sunshine wrote:Yes, he's a nutcase

I disagree.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:56 pm UTC

As an American, I'm rooting for those jerk Portuguese. If they win by only a tiny amount, and we lose only by a tiny amount, we still go on...

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Negated » Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:38 pm UTC

The Americans can love C.Ronaldo again. He scored the winner to stop Ghana and missed a dozen chances to not overtake USA.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Heisenberg » Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:04 pm UTC

Yay! We didn't get beat as bad as Portugal did!

Honestly, though I was hoping for a win, this is a pretty reasonable result for us. Germany was the better side, and we knew they would be. Definitely could have been worse, especially with as much work as Tim Howard had to do.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:08 pm UTC

We nearly tied it up at the end though...

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby ahammel » Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:10 pm UTC

roband wrote:
Cathode Ray Sunshine wrote:Yes, he's a nutcase

I disagree.

Would you disagree had he not scored 70-odd goals for the Reds?
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