Actual (Association) Football Talk.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby ahammel » Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:36 pm UTC

There's no better way to celebrate Canada day than watching the Americans lose :D

Romelu Lukaku with the most adorable goal celebration of the tournament.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby charliepanayi » Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:55 pm UTC

Shame the teams didn't have their shooting boots on in the first 90 minutes, could have been a hatful of goals. Great extra time though.

Snap predictions for the quarter finals:

France 1 Germany 2
Brazil 3 Colombia 1
Argentina 1 Belgium 0
Netherlands 2 Costa Rica 0
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Negated » Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:55 pm UTC

What a game that was. Tim Howard literally kept US in the game by himself. US showed great spirit and determination, but just were not good enough.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:08 am UTC

ahammel wrote:There's no better way to celebrate Canada day than watching the Americans lose :D


But we root for you whenever we aren't playing against you. We just wouldn't look right without our hat.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby roband » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:23 am UTC

charliepanayi wrote:Shame the teams didn't have their shooting boots on in the first 90 minutes, could have been a hatful of goals. Great extra time though.

Snap predictions for the quarter finals:

France 1 Germany 2
Brazil 3 Colombia 1
Argentina 1 Belgium 0
Netherlands 2 Costa Rica 0

I can't see Brazil getting off so lightly against the Colombians without some assistance from the referees.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Diadem » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:41 am UTC

charliepanayi wrote:Snap predictions for the quarter finals:

France 1 Germany 2
Brazil 3 Colombia 1
Argentina 1 Belgium 0
Netherlands 2 Costa Rica 0

More realistic predictions:
France - Germany: 0-0
Brazil - Colombia: 0-0
Argentina - Belgium: 0-0
Netherlands - Costa Rica: 0-0
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Carlington » Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:02 am UTC

roband wrote:Nice predictions Carlington. You should put some money down!

I can't see Belgium getting to the final. Mainly because they don't seem like a team, they seem like 11 very good individual players. I could be wrong.

I should've, since I've got no clue who'll win this round. Ah well.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby charliepanayi » Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:45 am UTC

roband wrote:
charliepanayi wrote:Shame the teams didn't have their shooting boots on in the first 90 minutes, could have been a hatful of goals. Great extra time though.

Snap predictions for the quarter finals:

France 1 Germany 2
Brazil 3 Colombia 1
Argentina 1 Belgium 0
Netherlands 2 Costa Rica 0

I can't see Brazil getting off so lightly against the Colombians without some assistance from the referees.


I'm sketchy on the margin of victory but remain confident of who will win. As I say, I'm still sceptical about Colombia. Even this Brazil side is a big step up from Greece/Ivory Coast/Japan/Uruguay without Suarez. Plus I said they'd reach the semi-finals and I'm damned if I'm changing my mind now.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby ahammel » Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:23 pm UTC

De Jong is out injured for the rest of the World Cup :(
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby charliepanayi » Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:32 pm UTC

Rather drab game there, France disappointing. Germany probably won't mind though, and whoever they face, at least it won't be their usual bogey team Italy!
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Wonderbolt » Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:56 pm UTC

Brasil - Columbia... was one of the most asshole-ish games I've seen. There's really nothing else I can say about it.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby charliepanayi » Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:05 pm UTC

I thought Brazil deserved the win overall. The referee was enjoyably lenient in the first half but then he crossed the line into overly lax in the second and the game became overly scrappy and dirty as a result. Still, an exciting ending at least, and a great goal from Luiz.

Brazil v Germany - only the second time Brazil have played Germany/West Germany at a World Cup. Surprising it's been so rare.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Diadem » Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:25 pm UTC

Seems to me Colombia got screwed royally by the referee. That second goal should not have been a free kick, and their goal just before that was not offsite.

I didn't see the first half, but the second half Colombia played better, though they didn't really translate that into huge opportunities, so yeah, ultimately they have themselves to blame. But the referee didn't help.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Negated » Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:41 pm UTC

charliepanayi wrote:I thought Brazil deserved the win overall. The referee was enjoyably lenient in the first half but then he crossed the line into overly lax in the second and the game became overly scrappy and dirty as a result. Still, an exciting ending at least, and a great goal from Luiz.

Brazil v Germany - only the second time Brazil have played Germany/West Germany at a World Cup. Surprising it's been so rare.

The ref was absolutely incompetent at every level. He gave a foul for everything. Many fouls were fair challenges or just slight contacts. At the same time he had no balls to give yellow cards, and players just started kicking legs and jumping into others because they knew they won't get a card. In the first half alone there should have been at least 5 yellows. Julio Cesar should have been sent off too. The guy was clear on goal.

So we ended up getting a game with many fouls. The ref utterly failed to control the game from start to finish. He should not ever ref in a major international tournament again. Ever.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby charliepanayi » Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:49 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:Seems to me Colombia got screwed royally by the referee. That second goal should not have been a free kick, and their goal just before that was not offsite.


I disagree on both these counts, certainly the second goal I felt was a free kick. Colombia had two shots on target the whole game, so they weren't at their best.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby PolakoVoador » Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:52 pm UTC

Negated wrote:
charliepanayi wrote:I thought Brazil deserved the win overall. The referee was enjoyably lenient in the first half but then he crossed the line into overly lax in the second and the game became overly scrappy and dirty as a result. Still, an exciting ending at least, and a great goal from Luiz.

Brazil v Germany - only the second time Brazil have played Germany/West Germany at a World Cup. Surprising it's been so rare.

The ref was absolutely incompetent at every level. He gave a foul for everything. Many fouls were fair challenges or just slight contacts. At the same time he had no balls to give yellow cards, and players just started kicking legs and jumping into others because they knew they won't get a card. In the first half alone there should have been at least 5 yellows. Julio Cesar should have been sent off too. The guy was clear on goal.

So we ended up getting a game with many fouls. The ref utterly failed to control the game from start to finish. He should not ever ref in a major international tournament again. Ever.


Agreed. The lack of yellow cards made the players get a lot more violent. Terrible ref. I think Brazil was slightly better, but I'm betting on Germany for the next round

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby gnutrino » Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:00 pm UTC

I feel really sorry for James Rodriguez, he gets the shit kicked out of him for 60 minutes, clearly a premeditated plan to shake him up, with no action at all from the ref. Then he makes one slightly late tackle, even tries to pull out of it - totally no malice there at all and the ref turns round and books him. That's just taking the piss.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby PolakoVoador » Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:34 pm UTC

gnutrino wrote:I feel really sorry for James Rodriguez, he gets the shit kicked out of him for 60 minutes, clearly a premeditated plan to shake him up, with no action at all from the ref. Then he makes one slightly late tackle, even tries to pull out of it - totally no malice there at all and the ref turns round and books him. That's just taking the piss.


Yeah, James and Neymar were kicked all around. James' yellow card was a really bad call from the ref.

UPDATE: Neymar got a fractured vertebrae from the knee in the back he received. Not a serious fracture, but he's out of the world cup. Again, another foul the ref failed to get that yellow card from his pocket.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Negated » Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:32 am UTC

PolakoVoador wrote:
gnutrino wrote:I feel really sorry for James Rodriguez, he gets the shit kicked out of him for 60 minutes, clearly a premeditated plan to shake him up, with no action at all from the ref. Then he makes one slightly late tackle, even tries to pull out of it - totally no malice there at all and the ref turns round and books him. That's just taking the piss.


Yeah, James and Neymar were kicked all around. James' yellow card was a really bad call from the ref.

UPDATE: Neymar got a fractured vertebrae from the knee in the back he received. Not a serious fracture, but he's out of the world cup. Again, another foul the ref failed to get that yellow card from his pocket.

I don't support Brazil and I feel really bad. We really shouldn't be robbed of one of the brightest stars of the tournament because some guy decided to knee someone in the back, which in turn happened because the players knew ref was useless.

No Thiago Silva. No Neymar. Brazil are in deep trouble when they face Germany.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby charliepanayi » Sat Jul 05, 2014 6:55 pm UTC

I wouldn't say Brazil are in 'deep trouble', they're still made of stern stuff. I think Germany will beat them but don't rule this Brazil side out.

Argentina v Belgium - same as France v Germany, as one side goes out with a whimper and the winners barely have to get out of second gear. In fairness to Belgium 2016 or 2018 will be better opportunities for them, but they have been very disappointing at this World Cup. The Brazil game last night might have been really dirty, but at least it had some goals and excitement to go with all the fouling.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby ahammel » Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:57 pm UTC

Costa Rica seem to think that because Robben admitted the dive he can be fouled with impunity now. Boring game at the half.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby PolakoVoador » Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:05 pm UTC

First game that the netherlands didn't score at least twice. Costa Rica is heroic

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby charliepanayi » Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:51 pm UTC

PolakoVoador wrote:First game that the netherlands didn't score at least twice. Costa Rica is heroic


Not heroic enough though. Krul wins the day!
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby ahammel » Sat Jul 05, 2014 11:17 pm UTC

That's two game winning subs for van Gaal now.

Krul looked like he was telling every penalty taker he knew which way they were going to go. And you have to say that he got it right every time.

The ease with which the Dutch win seems to be in inverse proportion to the (theoretical) difficulty of their opponents. I predict that they will beat Germany by 15 goals in the final.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Wonderbolt » Sat Jul 05, 2014 11:38 pm UTC

I really liked the way Costa Rica played this game. The Dutch were clearly better, at least when it comes to the individual players, but the Costa Rican's defensive strategy made it really hard for them to get close to the goal, and let's not forget their great GK! Lots of people here were complaining that CR was just constantly keeping 10 men on the defense and mostly holding out for penalties, but I think that approach is what made this an exciting game - had they played any different, the Dutch probably would've steamrolled them.

As a fan of the Dutch team, though, this has been one of the most nerve-wracking games to watch. LvG did it again with a great substitute, but it would be nice to just have the team win a game by just being better and scoring a few goals here.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Cathode Ray Sunshine » Sun Jul 06, 2014 2:12 am UTC

UURWERK ORANJE!!!!!!!!

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Diadem » Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:12 am UTC

Playing on penalties is a valid strategy. And it often works. I don't like it, most people don't like it, but it's a valid strategy. One they executed with perfection, the Dutch got very few chances despite having very strong front. A bit of luck does the reset. Of course if you do play that strategy, you can't afford to miss 2 of your penalties.

The GK switch at the very end was, I think, brilliant. Apparently this is a first ever on a world championship, which highly surprised me. It makes a lot of sense to have a GK specialized in penalties, and as an added bonus you throw your opponent off-balance. Why don't more teams do this?
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby CorruptUser » Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:15 am UTC

I'm not sure how to feel about Argentina beating Belgium. Yay, one of the teams from the Americas advanced. But, it makes the US look worse, to lose to someone that ended up losing right after.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby mike-l » Sun Jul 06, 2014 4:10 am UTC

Wonderbolt wrote:I really liked the way Costa Rica played this game. The Dutch were clearly better, at least when it comes to the individual players, but the Costa Rican's defensive strategy made it really hard for them to get close to the goal, and let's not forget their great GK!

The Dutch had a ton of chances, and they beat the goalkeeper three times, but hit crossbars and posts.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby yedidyak » Sun Jul 06, 2014 9:25 am UTC

Diadem wrote:The GK switch at the very end was, I think, brilliant. Apparently this is a first ever on a world championship, which highly surprised me. It makes a lot of sense to have a GK specialized in penalties, and as an added bonus you throw your opponent off-balance. Why don't more teams do this?


You need to keep a substitute unused for almost 120 minutes to pull it off.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Negated » Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:48 pm UTC

yedidyak wrote:
Diadem wrote:The GK switch at the very end was, I think, brilliant. Apparently this is a first ever on a world championship, which highly surprised me. It makes a lot of sense to have a GK specialized in penalties, and as an added bonus you throw your opponent off-balance. Why don't more teams do this?


You need to keep a substitute unused for almost 120 minutes to pull it off.

It makes no sense for the Netherlands to play for penalties even if they have a PK specialist. And given Krul's mediocre PK save rate (2 saves in 20 PKs in EPL), I don't think he is a specialist at all.

To me this is a sign of how little depth there is in the Netherlands squad. By all measures the Netherlands were by far the stronger team and should not have ended up winning on penalties. Van Gaal would not have resorted to swapping GK if he had a player to push for the win before 120 minutes.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Diadem » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:36 am UTC

Negated wrote:It makes no sense for the Netherlands to play for penalties even if they have a PK specialist. And given Krul's mediocre PK save rate (2 saves in 20 PKs in EPL), I don't think he is a specialist at all.

To me this is a sign of how little depth there is in the Netherlands squad. By all measures the Netherlands were by far the stronger team and should not have ended up winning on penalties. Van Gaal would not have resorted to swapping GK if he had a player to push for the win before 120 minutes.

Did you watch the game? The Dutch squad was attacking the entire 120 minutes, and even took quite a bit of risk by playing so far forward. They created a lot of chances, but they lacked that final bit of luck / skill to score. I was Costa Rica that was playing for penalties, they had 10 man behind the ball for nearly the entire match.

I think most people miss the point of the GK swap. It wasn't just that Krul is better at stopping penalties. It's psychological. Costa Rica had a huge advantage going into the penalty shootout, because for them it meant reaching their goal. In a game where one side is attempting to stall for a penalty shootout, that teams generally wins if the game indeed goes to a penalty shootout. They are better prepared for them, and they feel confident because they've just reached their goal. Meanwhile the other side is feeling the pressure. So Costa Rica had a big psychological advantage at the 120 minute mark. The GK swap negates a lot of that advantage. Suddenly Costa Rica is facing a huge unknown. The statement Van Gaal is making is: "You think you're better prepared than us for this? Cute. I've got you exactly where I want you. I've been sitting on this substitute for 120 minutes just for this occasional. This guy has been training on stopping penalties 8 hours a day for 6 weeks now. He has studied every penalty every member of your team has ever made. He knows you better than your own mother. He has looked inside your soul, he has been inside your house, he has slept with your wife. He has the speed of a lightning bolt and the reflexes of a jedi. Now witness the power of this fully armed and operational goal keeper".

Ok, I got a bit carried away there at the end. But the point stands. Penalty shootouts are for a huge part psychological, and the GK switch was an important part of that.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby ahammel » Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:57 pm UTC

I think the Netherlands got their tactics just about right. CR were never ever going to attack except on the break or from a set piece, so they just held on to the ball and played the patient build up game. They had a hat full of chances to Costa Rica's none (not a shot on goal nor a corner until well into extra time). If RvP wasn't having a bad day at the office or Sneider hasn't pissed off the Greek god of goalposts that could've been 2 or 3 nil easily.

Robben's game confused me. He really, properly looked like he was trying to be a good boy. Got hacked down quite a lot, but they were all proper fouls and he didn't embellish it much; just fell over. For about eighty minutes, anyway, and then he takes a horrific dive in the edge of the box, arms up, back arched, no contact, classic cheating bastard move. I was actually relieved they didn't score from that.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Diadem » Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:55 pm UTC

ahammel wrote:Robben's game confused me. He really, properly looked like he was trying to be a good boy. Got hacked down quite a lot, but they were all proper fouls and he didn't embellish it much; just fell over. For about eighty minutes, anyway, and then he takes a horrific dive in the edge of the box, arms up, back arched, no contact, classic cheating bastard move. I was actually relieved they didn't score from that.

If you're thinking of the same incident I'm thinking, there was definitely contact.

You know I'm getting pretty fed up with all this bitching about the Dutch team. Yes Robben may have embellished that fall a bit, yes he did embellish his fall against Mexico that resulted in a penalty a bit. But both were absolutely fouls, it was not diving. And have you seen other teams? Seriously, have you even taken a cursory glance at pretty much every other team in the world cup? Players are going down as if they are mortally wounded all the time. And then half the team is surrounding the referee begging for this or that. Or they spend minutes on the ground writhing in pain until they get carried off the field, and then the second play resumes they come back in right as rain.

Yes, the Dutch side makes a lot of fouls. I'm certainly not going to accuse them of deserving the fair play award. But there have been no serious red-card-deserving fouls. Some theatrics from Robben, but still less than plenty of other teams, and very little from the rest of the squad. Both of the penalties the Dutch side got were correct. Both the penalties the Dutch side got against them were not correct. There is really nothing exceptional here. The Dutch are probably in the bottom half when it comes to niceness, but plenty of teams are much worse.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby ahammel » Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:19 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:
ahammel wrote:Robben's game confused me. He really, properly looked like he was trying to be a good boy. Got hacked down quite a lot, but they were all proper fouls and he didn't embellish it much; just fell over. For about eighty minutes, anyway, and then he takes a horrific dive in the edge of the box, arms up, back arched, no contact, classic cheating bastard move. I was actually relieved they didn't score from that.

If you're thinking of the same incident I'm thinking, there was definitely contact.
The one leading up to the the free kick that Sneider put off the crossbar? I'd love to be wrong, but it looked to me like his sleeve was brushed at the very worst.

You know I'm getting pretty fed up with all this bitching about the Dutch team. Yes Robben may have embellished that fall a bit, yes he did embellish his fall against Mexico that resulted in a penalty a bit. But both were absolutely fouls, it was not diving. And have you seen other teams? Seriously, have you even taken a cursory glance at pretty much every other team in the world cup? Players are going down as if they are mortally wounded all the time. And then half the team is surrounding the referee begging for this or that. Or they spend minutes on the ground writhing in pain until they get carried off the field, and then the second play resumes they come back in right as rain.
Oh for sure. I counted at least three instances of simulation (as in no contact) from Costa Rica in that game, and I suspect that there were two injuries faked to stop a Dutch attack.

Not saying that the Dutch are worse than any other team, I'm just confused that Robben would play for most of the game as though he was trying to clean up his act and then dive. Maybe I'm wrong and he didn't, but it looked pretty bad to me.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Negated » Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:41 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:
Negated wrote:It makes no sense for the Netherlands to play for penalties even if they have a PK specialist. And given Krul's mediocre PK save rate (2 saves in 20 PKs in EPL), I don't think he is a specialist at all.

To me this is a sign of how little depth there is in the Netherlands squad. By all measures the Netherlands were by far the stronger team and should not have ended up winning on penalties. Van Gaal would not have resorted to swapping GK if he had a player to push for the win before 120 minutes.

Did you watch the game? The Dutch squad was attacking the entire 120 minutes, and even took quite a bit of risk by playing so far forward. They created a lot of chances, but they lacked that final bit of luck / skill to score. I was Costa Rica that was playing for penalties, they had 10 man behind the ball for nearly the entire match.

I think most people miss the point of the GK swap. It wasn't just that Krul is better at stopping penalties. It's psychological. Costa Rica had a huge advantage going into the penalty shootout, because for them it meant reaching their goal. In a game where one side is attempting to stall for a penalty shootout, that teams generally wins if the game indeed goes to a penalty shootout. They are better prepared for them, and they feel confident because they've just reached their goal. Meanwhile the other side is feeling the pressure. So Costa Rica had a big psychological advantage at the 120 minute mark. The GK swap negates a lot of that advantage. Suddenly Costa Rica is facing a huge unknown. The statement Van Gaal is making is: "You think you're better prepared than us for this? Cute. I've got you exactly where I want you. I've been sitting on this substitute for 120 minutes just for this occasional. This guy has been training on stopping penalties 8 hours a day for 6 weeks now. He has studied every penalty every member of your team has ever made. He knows you better than your own mother. He has looked inside your soul, he has been inside your house, he has slept with your wife. He has the speed of a lightning bolt and the reflexes of a jedi. Now witness the power of this fully armed and operational goal keeper".

Ok, I got a bit carried away there at the end. But the point stands. Penalty shootouts are for a huge part psychological, and the GK switch was an important part of that.

I meant to type "plan" instead of "play". My mistake.

I only wanted to say the Netherlands have no depth on the bench.

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Zamfir
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Zamfir » Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:03 pm UTC

I wouldn't call it lack of depth, really. That implies there is a reasonable A-team, but a large drop in quality once players are changed. But the players are rotated all the time, without seeming loss of performance.

It's more that this team doesn't really have much top-level players at all, on the field or on the bench. I doubt many of them would have made the current German squad, let alone get a starting spot. They're doing well, that's credit to the team and the coach.

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roband
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby roband » Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:14 pm UTC

"top-level" does not equal "able to get into the German National Team".

Holland have a lot of very good players. Not many of them would get into the German 11, because Germany have a better team.

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Zamfir
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Zamfir » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:30 pm UTC

Yeah, the Germans appear to have a good team...

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby mike-l » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:32 pm UTC

Wow. I felt Germany would have an edge this game, but 5-0 after 29 minutes.... Beyond my wildest expectation
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