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SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:10 pm UTC
by CorruptUser
So, slow news day apparently.

Link

Obama is down in Columbia, and has staff with him, including the Secret Service. Secret service members hire sex workers, but one guy has an argument about the payment, police get called in. Dispute is settled, but it's a breech of security or something because it's blackmail material or something. Meantime, it's a political detriment, somehow, which I don't understand, as these are diplomats Obama is dealing with; theft and whoring are SOP for them*, so it's only a "scandal" if Obama can't figure out how to laugh it off.

*Yeah, probably personal bias. I kind of hate diplomats.

Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:02 pm UTC
by sourmìlk
Why so much fuss over shoplifting?

I kid. But a member of Obama's staff behaved inappropriately on his own time. This shit happens, I agree that there's not much of a scandal here.

But because it's called a scandal, it needs a name. What word should we suffix with -gate?

Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:05 pm UTC
by notzeb
sourmìlk wrote:But because it's called a scandal, it needs a name. What word should we suffix with -gate?
How does "Servicegate" sound?

Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:06 pm UTC
by mmmcannibalism
sourmìlk wrote:Why so much fuss over shoplifting?

I kid. But a member of Obama's staff behaved inappropriately on his own time. This shit happens, I agree that there's not much of a scandal here.

But because it's called a scandal, it needs a name. What word should we suffix with -gate?


Considering the degradation of the quality of -gates I say we go with "Guyrefusedtopayaprostitutecausingscandalgate

Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:15 pm UTC
by poxic
mmmcannibalism wrote:"Guyrefusedtopayaprostitutecausingscandalgate

Excellent. Sufficiently long and silly.

Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:58 pm UTC
by Tirian
mmmcannibalism wrote:Considering the degradation of the quality of -gates I say we go with "Guyrefusedtopayaprostitutecausingscandalgate


Except it's really a part of Thisneverhappenedwhenourpresidentwasamericangate which has been going on for nearly three and a half years now.

Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:31 am UTC
by sourmìlk
Tirian wrote:
mmmcannibalism wrote:Considering the degradation of the quality of -gates I say we go with "Guyrefusedtopayaprostitutecausingscandalgate


Except it's really a part of Thisneverhappenedwhenourpresidentwasamericangate which has been going on for nearly three and a half years now.


Please, that scandal is just manufactured by this whole FundamentalistsHaveDecidedThatOurPresidentIsn'tAmericanBecauseHe'sBlackAndThereforeEvilGate.

(use camel case, it's easier to read).

Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:15 am UTC
by Sheikh al-Majaneen
I hate the -gate suffix. Call it fuckinggate. Simple, and as expressive as its root.

Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:18 am UTC
by sourmìlk
I second that suggestion. But I agree, the -gate suffix has really been abused since watergategate.

Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:21 am UTC
by CorruptUser
"-gate" isn't nearly as bad as "payola"; we live in a time when most people have never even heard of Victrola, or the original payola scandal. At least people vaguely remember what happened at Watergate.

Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:24 am UTC
by CorruptUser

Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:36 am UTC
by buddy431
Do you really not think that someone working for the United States government engaging in an activity that is illegal in the United States is not at least somewhat damaging? I mean, no, this is no Iran-Contra, but come on, these guys should have known better, and they should get canned, if the allegations are true.

Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:43 am UTC
by CorruptUser
buddy431 wrote:Do you really not think that someone working for the United States government engaging in an activity that is illegal in the United States is not at least somewhat damaging?


It's legal in 2 states, and should be legal (albeit heavily regulated) in the rest.

Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:05 am UTC
by Thesh
But if prostitution were legal, wouldn't that destroy the institution of marriage? Won't somebody think of the children?!

Really, who do you think you are to suggest that someone should be able to engage in an act they enjoy, with consent of all parties involved, that would be legal if it weren't for the monetary exchange?

Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:10 am UTC
by buddy431
It doesn't really matter whether prostitution should be legal or not. If these dudes were caught smoking weed in their off-time, it would probably net the same response. If they got drunk and caused a scene, it would be a similar response. You're supposed to be protecting the president in a foreign country, and you're representing the United States in you actions. So don't do anything embarrassing, even when you're not on duty. Wait on the hookers until you have some vacation time.

Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:16 am UTC
by Tirian
buddy431 wrote:It doesn't really matter whether prostitution should be legal or not. If these dudes were caught smoking weed in their off-time, it would probably net the same response. If they got drunk and caused a scene, it would be a similar response.


They snuck unvetted people into an otherwise secured hotel in Columbia filled with dignitaries charting out the future of the War on Drugs. Granted, the real world isn't an episode of 24, but you really don't know whose team those hookers are on and breaching your own security to make an exception for them shows an astonishing lack of perspective.

Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:18 pm UTC
by Iulus Cofield
I think we can all agree that the agents involved probably should be fired or demoted to a non-field position at least, assuming the Secret Service has desk jobs. I have no idea. They are secret after all.

Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:29 pm UTC
by clockworkmonk
The Secret Service is also in charge of currency related stuff. Mostly Counterfeiting and major fraud. And those responsibilities will certainly have desk jobs.

Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:52 pm UTC
by Gears
This is a big deal because a secret service agent could be blackmailed into releasing secrets (lest it start a scandal...) and it's not uncommon for Country A to use women to gain secret information from Country B's employees. They should all lose their clearances at the minimum.

Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:35 pm UTC
by addams
buddy431 wrote:It doesn't really matter whether prostitution should be legal or not. If these dudes were caught smoking weed in their off-time, it would probably net the same response. If they got drunk and caused a scene, it would be a similar response. You're supposed to be protecting the president in a foreign country, and you're representing the United States in you actions. So don't do anything embarrassing, even when you're not on duty. Wait on the hookers until you have some vacation time.

This, just, blows my mind. On duty; Off duty; 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Those guys can not have those jobs without having that drilled into their heads.

Unless; Unless; These are guys that were trained during and after the Bush years.

Yeah; Back to what you do off duty is your own business. Nope. The job that is being discussed here is not that kind of job.

It may very well be a lie. The whole thing could be made up. The men and women that held those kinds of positions, used to be officers. A person may take off the uniform. But; A person was never allowed to forget that the right to wear the uniform does not wash off. It has been earned and is does not go away at the end of a work duty shift.

These are not McD jobs. I call lie. It is a media lie. What proof is there?

Is it a distraction from the business of the heads of state?
What do we want to know about? What makes us indignant?

The boring meetings and stiffs in suits eating food they don't like or Sex? Sex wins, every time.

What is wrong with us? Do we all have arrested development? Or; Is it, just, the media? They know what you want. See the Sex?

What was the meeting about?
Who cares! There was sex!

Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:13 pm UTC
by LtNOWIS
CorruptUser wrote:
buddy431 wrote:Do you really not think that someone working for the United States government engaging in an activity that is illegal in the United States is not at least somewhat damaging?


It's legal in 2 states, and should be legal (albeit heavily regulated) in the rest.

It's only legal in one state. And not the part of the state where very many people live.

Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:18 pm UTC
by sourmìlk
Also, I don't know that it's legal to refuse to pay a prostitute anywhere in the world.

Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:01 pm UTC
by CorruptUser
LtNOWIS wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:
buddy431 wrote:Do you really not think that someone working for the United States government engaging in an activity that is illegal in the United States is not at least somewhat damaging?


It's legal in 2 states, and should be legal (albeit heavily regulated) in the rest.

It's only legal in one state. And not the part of the state where very many people live.


It's quasi-legal in Rhode Island. Wait, just looked it up, was decriminalized until 2009 *facepalm*.

Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:39 am UTC
by meatyochre
CorruptUser wrote:
buddy431 wrote:Do you really not think that someone working for the United States government engaging in an activity that is illegal in the United States is not at least somewhat damaging?


It's legal in 2 states, and should be legal (albeit heavily regulated) in the rest.

This is a Big Deal, at least in part, because prostitutes in third-world countries or developing nations are often victims of female trafficking.

Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:23 am UTC
by johnny_7713
meatyochre wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:
buddy431 wrote:Do you really not think that someone working for the United States government engaging in an activity that is illegal in the United States is not at least somewhat damaging?


It's legal in 2 states, and should be legal (albeit heavily regulated) in the rest.

This is a Big Deal, at least in part, because prostitutes in third-world countries or developing nations are often victims of female trafficking.


It happens pretty regularly in first-world or developed countries too, even if prostitution is perfectly legal.

Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:06 pm UTC
by Diadem
sourmìlk wrote:Also, I don't know that it's legal to refuse to pay a prostitute anywhere in the world.

If prostitution is only legal in 2 US states, then ipso facto it is legal to refuse to pay a prostitute in 48 states.

Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:41 pm UTC
by mike-l
I'm pretty sure it's illegal to commit the actions leading to incurring the debt in the first place. It's still not legal to refuse to pay your debts. IANAL though, nor am I American, up here it's perfectly legal to exchange money for sex, though certain aspects of getting into that arrangement are not.

Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:18 pm UTC
by Nordic Einar
sourmìlk wrote:Why so much fuss over shoplifting?

I kid.


It's funny, because sex workers don't have the right to bodily autonomy and it's only just shop lifting to violate that autonomy by with-holding payment. Hilarious.

meatyochre wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:
buddy431 wrote:Do you really not think that someone working for the United States government engaging in an activity that is illegal in the United States is not at least somewhat damaging?


It's legal in 2 states, and should be legal (albeit heavily regulated) in the rest.

This is a Big Deal, at least in part, because prostitutes in third-world countries or developing nations are often victims of female trafficking.


And a surprising number of them aren't the victims of human trafficking, either here or abroad. Let's not rush to erase the agency of an incredible number of men and women in an effort to protect those without agency.

Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:28 pm UTC
by Heisenberg
It's a big deal because individuals responsible for security smuggled uncleared personnel into a secure facility. That would merit an investigation if it were a hot dog vendor found on a military base in Des Moines.

The reason it's making headlines is because it involves boning and is tangentially related to the President (but mostly the boning part).

Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:01 pm UTC
by addams
sourmìlk wrote:Also, I don't know that it's legal to refuse to pay a prostitute anywhere in the world.

If, she can get you to marry her, then, she will get paid.

Besides; I am calling Media Lie or Misinformation or whatever it is these days.

Or; There is a chance that these men were trained during the Bush years.
You know; Like the Harley Davisons were such shit during some of the 70's.
They were, just, not made right.

Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:24 pm UTC
by Angua
Colombia prostitute reveals $800 cash row with US agent

Apparently, the agent dealing with this woman agreed to pay her $800, but the next morning only wanted to give her $30.

Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:45 pm UTC
by mike-l
That's very different than the $47 in the original article. Or at least, a very different number.

This article also suggests that there was no security issue at all, that these secret service agents had been sent home and were off on their own.

Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:13 pm UTC
by CorruptUser
I don't know much about prostitution except when it comes to politics, but isn't that why prostitutes ask for cash in advance? $800 is a lot for an American prostitute, let alone a Central American one.

Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:58 pm UTC
by Diadem
Generally yeah they ask for payment in advance. For precisely this reason. But I guess it may be different with certain exclusive affairs. Perhaps they initially agreed on a lower price, but halfway the guy wanted additional activities, or extra time?


And now for something completely different: Am I the only one who is slightly bothered by using 'SS' for secret service?

Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:21 pm UTC
by natraj
CorruptUser wrote:I don't know much about prostitution except when it comes to politics, but isn't that why prostitutes ask for cash in advance? $800 is a lot for an American prostitute, let alone a Central American one.


$800 is not that much at all if she stayed all night. (Well, in American terms.)

I mean, $150-250/hr is pretty average, so if you negotiate a reduced rate for longer time spans that is the low end of reasonable.

I have no idea what rates are like in Colombia but if they know they are dealing with foreign travelers they may well deal with rates their customers are used to.

Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:43 pm UTC
by CorruptUser
Diadem wrote:And now for something completely different: Am I the only one who is slightly bothered by using 'SS' for secret service?


Yeah, mod changed that, not me.

Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:45 pm UTC
by Heisenberg
mike-l wrote:This article also suggests that there was no security issue at all, that these secret service agents had been sent home and were off on their own.

After reading around a bit, I may have been taken in by the fearmongering and general douchebaggery of Peter King. There doesn't appear to be evidence that these women were not allowed at the hotel. But my assumption is that the Marine Corps soldiers involved were providing security at the hotel, and when their Secret Service buddies brought home some entertainment, they looked the other way. Probably forgivable after the President has left the country, but the fact that this was prior to his arrival makes security a concern.

Also, while the President wasn't there at the time, it appears members of his staff were. Bringing a stripper to your room when the people you're protecting are next door is probably frowned upon. (Although I bet he patted her down first.)

Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:22 pm UTC
by maybeagnostic
Diadem wrote:And now for something completely different: Am I the only one who is slightly bothered by using 'SS' for secret service?
Every time I look at the topic, I wonder why there is a WWII topic in News and then remember what it is about.

On topic: the scandal mysteriously started within a few days of the GOP settling on a candidate. What a peculiar "coincidence" :)

Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:59 pm UTC
by CorruptUser
What $800 gets you in Columbia

Spoiler:

Re: SS refuses to pay prostitute, "scandal"

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:02 pm UTC
by jakovasaur
Seems like a fair price. That's a quality-looking kayak.